Israel/gaza Thread

[Ke1t]

I'm open to persuasion.

 

Someone give me a valid reason for firing upon, and killing, kids playing football on a beach. Or bombing a school, or a hospital, or a repeatedly-identified UN area.

 

I mean, there's likely a perfectly good reason why Israel deliberately kills women, children, and neutral UN observers.

 

So let's hear it.

[Crossbow]

I'm open to persuasion.

 

Someone give me a valid reason for firing upon, and killing, kids playing football on a beach. Or bombing a school, or a hospital, or a repeatedly-identified UN area.

 

I mean, there's likely a perfectly good reason why Israel deliberately kills women, children, and neutral UN observers.

 

So let's hear it.

because they can - to demonstrate to the local countries that they can do what they want when they want and no one has the balls or the power to stop them

 

because they want everyone to know how tough they are - they will do anything to defend their land (even though, being generous, such claims may be morally and historically dubious)

 

if they ever were seriously threatened by the 3rd division Arab armies against their Premier league Defence Force they'd happily use their nukes

 

that is why I think

 

and Hamas keeps firing rockets in the same way to show the no surrender attitude that we can recognise so easily

 

it's a mess

 

bring back the Romans

[dave_min]

That's a terrible idea, what have the Romans ever done for us?

[Crossbow]

That's a terrible idea, what have the Romans ever done for us?

 

Reg: All right... all right... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans done for us?

 

Xerxes: Brought peace!

[Clydeside_Sheep]

 

you are wrong Spammer, he is a fucking arsehole all of the time. He is the most ignorant poster I've seen on this board and that takes some fucking beating.

 

And another infantile tantrum from vanderark14.

 

I never realised before that the 14 referred to your age.

 

You should chill out - you'd think I was brilliant if you met me

[Clydeside_Sheep]

Or bombing a school

 

What happened at the school was terrible, but I expect school buildings would not be potential targets, if Hammas didn't use schools as arms dumps.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

I did agree with cs's view that if the Arabs did gain control again it would just turn it into another middle eastern hell hole which has scant regard for the rights of any non Islamist. However, that does not excuse genocide and if there is one group of people that should be cognisant of this it is the Israeli Jews.

 

 

Agreed. Sometimes the Israelis do appear very heartless / brutal and I do wonder if they ever reflect on some of their actions versus what their own ancestors had to suffer.

[Bluto10]

 

What happened at the school was terrible, but I expect school buildings would not be potential targets, if Hammas didn't use schools as arms dumps.

There you go.

Two sides to every story.

 

That's why this 50+ year war isn't worth a second thought.

 

The minks over there like it; gives them meaning and a purpose.

 

Let them fight it out.

 

Most folk would Renounce religion and move away.

 

Not these middle eastern weirdos though

[Clydeside_Sheep]

No one has said palestinians have not committed atrocities but they have been at war against an occupation engineered and supported by the west to which was forced upon them.

The occupations of gaza, golan etc are a direct result of the 6 day war, when Israel alone faced 4 arab nations (backed by several other arab nations). Beat them all in 6 days.

We cant turn back the clock but that does not make Israel and the west any less culpable for the horrors that took place and continue to take place as a result of their assistance and support of Israel

I agree Israel is (should be) accountable for its actions.

 

I think they are held to impossible standards in the circumstances. Constantly provoked by rockets, then having to face an enemy which fights from amongst children in civilian areas.

 

I was wrong to describe muslims generally as "unreasonable" before, but it does irk me that this conflict is the #1 in everyones mind, yet it is muslims themselves who are the largest, most unrepentant and most intolerant persecutor of people in the world. This conflict is probably the sole example of the shoe being on the other foot for them.

[spamspamspam]

 

What happened at the school was terrible, but I expect school buildings would not be potential targets, if Hammas didn't use schools as arms dumps.

 

 

It was a UN building

UN, not Hamas

There were no weapons on site of any kind, just kids and families hiding from the constant bombing.

See the UN statement on the page before this one.

 

Then there's the 4 kids playing football on the beach that were killed from the sea. Footage shows clearly it was kids, footage shows clearly they were playing fitba and footage shows clearly they didnt have anything at all that looked like a bomb or missile launcher. It also shows clearly that Israel knew exactly who they were firing at. If they didnt, as they now claim, then their technology is not fit for the job they are doing with it and as such that should stop right away.

 

They are killing kids indiscriminately. They are killing families indiscriminately and they are claiming any flat/house/area that may have someone that may be connected to Hamas in anyway at all is a military target which is a war crime in any book. Families killed in their sleep, no chance whatsoever to escape, no chance of surviving the missiles they are firing in.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

Kids were fucked let's not fudge the facts with some being teenagers. Kids were fucked by Catholics the world over. Not all Catholics of course but the comparison stands with your generalisation.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/24/paedophile-priest-francis-paul-cullen-jailed-15-years

 

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/judge-slams-church-over-paedophile-priest-secrets/story-fni0fee2-1226878344488?nk=7c551e7c0903c988d1a7bc9ea5f2aeef

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2112787/Paedophile-priest-abused-boys-decades-jailed-22-years.html

 

The majority were teenage boys, this is because most of the abuse was carried out by predatory homosexual men in the priesthood.

 

But you know this, of course.

 

On another post you mention how you "care about people"; yet you don't care about the abuse victims: you don't really want to know why they were abused, by whom, or how it could be prevented. They are only of use to you in so far as providing ammunition for your anti-religious views.

 

In that you use the suffering of others as a weapon, you are similar to Hamas.

 

Certainly, the Church is culpable as regards its failure to deal with these cases properly in many instances, but anyone who genuinely cares about the victims must accept the facts:

 

Notwithstanding the media hysteria over sex abuse in the Catholic Church, priests abuse at a rate far lower than that of other males

 

 

http://www.themediareport.com/fast-facts/

 

Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons is a psychiatrist who has spent years treating sexually abusive priests. “Many psychologists and psychiatrists have shown that there is no link between celibacy and pedophilia,” he said earlier this year. Instead, they have found a “relationship between homosexuality and pedophilia.” Fitzgibbons goes further, saying, “Every priest whom I treated who was involved with children sexually had previously been involved in adult homosexual relationships.” Notice he didn’t say some priests.

Alfred Kinsey was the first to identify a correlation between homosexuality and the sexual abuse of minors. In 1948, he found that 37 percent of all male homosexuals admitted to having sex with children under 17 years old. More recently, in organs such as the Archives of Sexual Behavior, the Journal of Sex Research, the Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy, and Pediatrics, it has been established that homosexuals are disproportionately represented among child molesters.

When the John Jay College of Criminal Justice released its findings, the Boston Globe, which won a Pulitzer Prize for its investigation, commented that “more than three-quarters of the victims were post pubescent, meaning the abuse did not meet the clinical definition of pedophilia.” So if the definitive study, which covered the years 1950-2002, concludes that pedophilia was never the issue, why does elite opinion insist that there is a “pedophilia crisis” in the Catholic Church?

 

http://www.catholicleague.org/homosexuality-and-sexual-abuse/

 

The answer to the final question is, of course, because to accept the reality of the abuse would then cast an uncomfortable light on the current efforts to normalise homosexuality.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

It was a UN building

UN, not Hamas

There were no weapons on site of any kind, just kids and families hiding from the constant bombing.

See the UN statement on the page before this one.

Hamas Weapon dumps were recently found in two UN schools in the area.

 

Do you see that, by storing weapons in schools, Hamas risk the lives of civilians?

They are killing kids indiscriminately. They are killing families indiscriminately

I don't accept Israel kills, or fires weapons, indiscriminately,. If they did, the death toll would be significantly higher.

 

Hamas fires weapons indiscriminately, via their unguided rocket attacks on civilian areas.

[spamspamspam]

Hamas Weapon dumps were recently found in two UN schools in the area.

 

Do you see that, by storing weapons in schools, Hamas risk the lives of civilians?I don't accept Israel kills, or fires weapons, indiscriminately,. If they did, the death toll would be significantly higher.

 

Hamas fires weapons indiscriminately, via their unguided rocket attacks on civilian areas.

 

Their defence for this attack is weapons were fired from somewhere near by. Not from the building but somewhere near by. It had been designated and cleared by the UN. There is no defence of it.

 

None

[The Boofon]

 

 

Agreed. Sometimes the Israelis do appear very heartless / brutal and I do wonder if they ever reflect on some of their actions versus what their own ancestors had to suffer.

Aye cracking thinking that.

 

So if your uncle was tortured by the Japs in WWII then it's OK for you to do likewise to the modern day Japanese man?

[fatjim]

 

The majority were teenage boys, this is because most of the abuse was carried out by predatory homosexual men in the priesthood.

But you know this, of course.

On another post you mention how you "care about people"; yet you don't care about the abuse victims: you don't really want to know why they were abused, by whom, or how it could be prevented. They are only of use to you in so far as providing ammunition for your anti-religious views.

In that you use the suffering of others as a weapon, you are similar to Hamas.

Certainly, the Church is culpable as regards its failure to deal with these cases properly in many instances, but anyone who genuinely cares about the victims must accept the facts:

 

 

http://www.themediareport.com/fast-facts/

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.catholicleague.org/homosexuality-and-sexual-abuse/

 

The answer to the final question is, of course, because to accept the reality of the abuse would then cast an uncomfortable light on the current efforts to normalise homosexuality.

will you do anything to defend the disgusting people who hide themselves behind your particular imaginary friend's religion?

 

How you deduce that I don't care about the abuse victims is beyond me. Another logical fallacy I am afraid.

[Ke1t]

Two things about the specious claims that Hamas uses civilian areas for weapons caches.

 

1. Israel comes out with these claims retrospectively. Bombed a school? Well, we had intelligence that Hamas was there.

 

2. According to International law. ...However, even if Hamas were violating the law on this matter, it would not legally justify Israel's bombing of areas where civilians are known to be.

"Any violation of these prohibitions shall not release the parties to the conflict from their legal obligations with respect to the civilian population and civilians, including the obligation to take the precautionary measures," the conventions say.

This also does not explain why Israel deliberately targets UN observers.

Further, even if they, or you, genuinely believe that claiming there were arms in an area after you've killed women and children there justified bombing schools and hospitals, that neither fools us into acquiesence nor excuses the deliberate murder of children.

Nor have the apologists explained why those kids on the beach were deliberately targeted and murdered.

Did the IDF perhaps have intelligence that these kids had TNT in the football?

[Clydeside_Sheep]

Aye cracking thinking that.

 

So if your uncle was tortured by the Japs in WWII then it's OK for you to do likewise to the modern day Japanese man?

 

No.

 

What I said was that, given that the jews have been on the end of persecution themselves, the experience might make them reluctant to persecute others.

 

I didn't say it gave them the right to persecute others.

 

Silly Boofon!

[Clydeside_Sheep]

How you deduce that I don't care about the abuse victims is beyond me.

 

You cynically use their plight purely to further your own agenda, you don't actually give a damn about them as individuals.

 

You like to allude that their suffering was a result of Christianity, in fact it was the result of disordered sexuality.

 

If you had any genuine interest in the victims, you would at least get that right.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

Two things about the specious claims that Hamas uses civilian areas for weapons caches.

 

 

The United Nations Relief & Works Agency For Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) announced Tuesday that another rocket stockpile has been found at one of its schools in Gaza. This instance marks the third time since the beginning of Operation Protective Edge that a weapons arsenal has been found at an UNRWA school in Gaza.

 

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/07/29/THIRD-Rocket-Arsenal-Found-At-UN-School-In-Gaza

 

Three separate arms dumps have now been found in UN schools, during his conflict. The UN has issued statements condemning this.

 

Interesting article out today:

 

 

Hamas is using Gaza’s civilians as pawns in the war against Israel

 

The Palestinians refugees have long been used was a pawn by their leaders. This is why over 60 years after al Nakba the Palestinian refugee problem has still not been solved. Apart from those Palestinians who have been given Jordanian passports, the majority continue to be stateless people. When will we have a solution? Why can’t the European Union and the United States, along with other countries, especially Arab and Muslim ones, offer passports and the right of abode to any one of the 1.8 million people living in Gaza, who might want to leave? But if any such joint offer were to be made, Hamas would be the first to condemn it. It needs those 1.8 million people: they are Hamas’s chief weapon. And until the refugee problem is settled, the misery will continue.

 

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2014/08/01/hamas-is-using-gazas-civilians-as-pawns-in-the-war-against-israel/

[spamspamspam]

 

 

 

 

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/07/29/THIRD-Rocket-Arsenal-Found-At-UN-School-In-Gaza

 

Three separate arms dumps have now been found in UN schools, during his conflict. The UN has issued statements condemning this.

 

Interesting article out today:

 

 

 

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2014/08/01/hamas-is-using-gazas-civilians-as-pawns-in-the-war-against-israel/

 

 

Were there missiles in the UN shelter/school they blitzed?

Even if there was, which there wasnt, that is still no excuse to kill civilians.

Its a war crime, pure and simple.

 

Should the rockets be there, of course not but then where are they going to keep their rockets? Its not like there is a Palestinian Army with missile proof bunkers around Gaza where they formulate attacks and stash all their weapons is it?

 

Does anything in your links justify the retaliation Israel dish out for rockets fired at them that never hit anything.

Is there anything at all that can justify blowing up a school or hospital that has children in it at the time? Anything?

 

You realise what your last link and quote is suggesting is to relocate Palestine dont you? Set up a Palestinian ghetto in Detroit shall we? Or will we split them all up and send them all over the globe, all 1.8m of them? In other words finish off the job for Israel and give them full control of the whole region and replacing one problem for another as an entire population and nation is slit up and sent around the world.

[The Hulk]

 

No.

 

What I said was that, given that the jews have been on the end of persecution themselves, the experience might make them reluctant to persecute others.

 

I didn't say it gave them the right to persecute others.

 

Silly Boofon!

 

Perhaps that's what you meant to say, but I read it the same way as Brother Boofon. I don't think for a second that they are half as reticent as you make out here, quite the opposite I'd say. They are not so much fighting fire with fire as fighting against bantamweights with heavyweights.

 

The Jews have been hardened for sure. They have a tendency to consider that they themselves are the most ancient and evolved human civilisation in existence, arguably rightly so. Those who have em/immigrated to Israel have chosen to do so. Would we consider the kind of person that would actively choose to move to live in such a place to be religiously dogmatic - I would say so, yes. You would have to think that some of the places they have emigrated from (Russia, Ukraine etc) have strong anti-semitic sentiment of the real kind, for them to want to go and live in such a place (only 66 years old remember) that is so hated by its neighbours. Therefore it is wholly understandable that said dogmatic leaders of the nation would be doubly outwardly aggressive to those who wish to challenge it.

 

But if they were so highly evolved they'd surely know that they could destroy these tunnels without having to bomb the shit out of the territory itself. They could destroy the tunnels from within their own border knowing that they have the safety of the most sophisticated missile defence system in captivity. The invasion and the bombing is a show of muscle with zero regard for humanity. Before the invasion, one Israeli had died. Was it entirely necessary to step it up? It surely can't be that difficult to locate and destroy tunnels in such a small country. They're more sophisticated than just a rabbit hole but at the same time they're not exactly hi-tech either.

 

Destroy the tunnels and rescind the blockade are the first steps. The problem is that that is not enough. Israel wants the final solution rather than taking baby steps. And that aint gonna happen. Stalemate. Dogmatic religious cunts.

[fatjim]

 

You cynically use their plight purely to further your own agenda, you don't actually give a damn about them as individuals.

 

You like to allude that their suffering was a result of Christianity, in fact it was the result of disordered sexuality.

 

If you had any genuine interest in the victims, you would at least get that right.

I merely used it to point out the ridiculousness of your generalisation. A generalisation that showed your bigotry towards Islam.

 

You even tried to deny that children were abused which clearly shows you have no care for victims of abuse. Trying to claim it was only teenage boys that were victims when that is just totally untrue. You have also tried to switch the whole thing round to your anti gay agenda and trying to blame the whole sorry episode on homosexual men. Which is another generalisation. You never seem to learn do you?

[Redstar]

I've never been a fan of the Jew...

[fatjim]

I've never been a fan of the Jew...

Which one?

[tightbreeks]

they're acting like the Nazis. blowing the hell out of a un school, it's like they're pushing it as far as they can.

 

all over a desert with a few old buildings that mean fuck all.

[Redstar]

The fella with the wee mouser saw this a long time ago..his (final) solution was just way too heavy handed.

[tightbreeks]

some may say they've had a free reign since. if you say otherwise, you're an anti-Semite.

[Redstar]

They run the World...

[Ke1t]

some may say they've had a free reign since. if you say otherwise, you're an anti-Semite.

 

 

This is the tactic that's used.

 

Any kind of argument against Israel is immediately shut down with 'You're anti-semitic', immediately putting the person criticising Israel in the defensive.

 

The response is, no, I'm criticising Israel because of it's abhorrent, inhuman behaviour, not because of anything Jewish they're doing.

 

If, however, being Jewish demands murdering women and children, then you can call me an anti-semite all fucking day.

[tightbreeks]

goldman sachs, the rothschilds, the list is endless.