Have Brown And Knox Actually Got What It Takes

[DieHardDandy]

Do you actually know the definition of the phrase "on paper"? It means, that before a ball is kicked, looking at everything with twenty twenty vision, we have technically more gifted players than others. The fact that this is backed up in wages to players and has been for the last couple of decades.

 

Obviously that is not being translated into results so the reality is that 'on paper' ability counts for jack. And this is the point.... having a manager who's capable of getting the best out of players.

Exactly, and on paper before the St Johnstone game you definitely could not say that we had a stronger team than Sy Johnstone - that's a laughable suggestion given our shower of players (who have been poor for a couple of years!) and lengthy injury list.

[K-9]

Just to add to or finish off this thread. the following quote is from a Dons player after yesterday's match:

 

 

 

 

Perhaps it indicates that the opinions voiced on here have registered with at least some of the players.

 

Any guesses who the player is?

Think it can only be Young who Brown is releasing?

[Stoneybloke]

Think it can only be Young who Brown is releasing?

No, it's not Young.

[Guest]

Exactly, and on paper before the St Johnstone game you definitely could not say that we had a stronger team than Sy Johnstone - that's a laughable suggestion given our shower of players (who have been poor for a couple of years!) and lengthy injury list.

 

I'd hazard a guess that the wages of the players we had on display, were more than that paid by St Johnstone. Thus, on paper, we had a better starting 11. How many of St Johnstone's players have represented their country and u21 or Snr level?

 

I think you've lost sight of what you're arguing about.

[K-9]

No, it's not Young.

Very surprised as never thought the words would come from anyone else in the team. 2nd guess would be Langfield and 3rd would be plug.

[Ke1t]

"We're all professionals."

( meaning the Aberdeen players)

 

That part made me lol out loud

[Stoneybloke]

Very surprised as never thought the words would come from anyone else in the team. 2nd guess would be Langfield and 3rd would be plug.

Yes, it was from Langfield

 

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/scottishpremier/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/11/05/08/SOCCER_Aberdeen_Nightlead.html&TEAMHD=scotspremiership&BID=425

[K-9]

I'd hazard a guess that the wages of the players we had on display, were more than that paid by St Johnstone. Thus, on paper, we had a better starting 11. How many of St Johnstone's players have represented their country and u21 or Snr level?

 

I think you've lost sight of what you're arguing about.

No doubt our players earn more than St Johnstone players but every paper i have seen says they are better team than us. Thus i deduce that our lot are over paid and we are really not getting anything like value for money paid to some of these wasters. Says it all when our most committed player is a very limited player who has just been told he is getting released and may struggle to get a deal anywhere near as big a club as Aberdeen yet continues to show professionalism til end.

[DieHardDandy]

I'd hazard a guess that the wages of the players we had on display, were more than that paid by St Johnstone. Thus, on paper, we had a better starting 11. How many of St Johnstone's players have represented their country and u21 or Snr level?

 

I think you've lost sight of what you're arguing about.

And I think you're living in la la land if you think that a bloke looking at the St J & Dons team sheets would've thought it a shoe-in we'd win.

[King Street Loon]

Just to add to or finish off this thread. the following quote is from a Dons player after yesterday's match:

 

 

 

 

Perhaps it indicates that the opinions voiced on here have registered with at least some of the players.

 

Any guesses who the player is?

Milsom

 

Edit: langfield

[Guest]

And I think you're living in la la land if you think that a bloke looking at the St J & Dons team sheets would've thought it a shoe-in we'd win.

 

OK, not for a second am I saying that this current squad is good enough. Nor am I saying they are giving their all for their manager nor the fans.

 

But let's look at the guys we had in our team yesterday.

 

Langfield - probably rated as one of the top 4 keepers in the SPL? I'm not a fan, but he's a very reasonable keeper for all his faults. Also made the Scotland squad before.

Diamond - regular U21 for his country. Had Celtic interested at one stage in his career and is Hearts bound. Bags of potential when younger.

Smith - played for Rangers and on the books of Norwich.

Vujadinovic - on books of Serie A club and has played at reasonably high standard in his home country, winning a league. Don't think we've got the best out of him for one reason or another.

Young - an average pro, but has had many years at AFC and has played along side some decent players in that time.

Aluko - was on Birmingham books and been capped for full Nigerian national team. A very gifted player on his day.

Milsom - another who has came from EPL side. Probably our best player at this time being.

Jack - a decent youth player, nothing more it must be said.

Magennis - capped by his country.

Maguire - capped for full Scottish international side and touted as one of SPL hot properties (well, mostly by everyone outside of AFC that is!!).

Blackman - scored sh*t loads for Motherwell and on books of EPL side.

 

Now, not for a minute am I saying that any of the above deserve these plaudits. But the facts are, that they - on paper - are better pound for pound, than the likes of Hamilton, St Johnstone, ICT and St Mirren (at very least). If, and it's a big if obviously, they all played to their potential, and were up against St Johnstone, who were all playing to their potential, I think you'd find it hard to argue the point that we'd not come out victors.

[OddJob]

Yes, it was from Langfield

 

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/scottishpremier/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/11/05/08/SOCCER_Aberdeen_Nightlead.html&TEAMHD=scotspremiership&BID=425

Yet still hasn't signed his contract yet? What a f**kwit he is, does he think he can pull the wool over our eyes with his comments like?

[K-9]

Yet still hasn't signed his contract yet? What a f**kwit he is, does he think he can pull the wool over our eyes with his comments like?

My link

 

Playing under Mark McGhee was crazy but it's great with Craig Brown, says Aberdeen No.1 Jamie Langfield

May 7 2011 Ian Orr

 

JAMIE LANGFIELD admits he became a basket case when blundering boss Mark McGhee made him Aberdeen's No.1 keeper then promptly binned him in the reserves.

 

The stopper's confidence was destroyed, his form dipped and it was only when Craig Brown took over at Pittodrie in December and restored him to first choice that he showed the consistency that earned a Scotland call-up.

 

The Dons manager has now tabled an offer to the 30-year-old to extend his deal and his future will be decided next week.

 

Langfield, who has refused to talk to other clubs until that decision is reached, admits he has come a long way since his dark days under McGhee at the start of the season.

 

He said: "Being told I was No.1 then being dropped meant my head was all over the place. Goalkeeping is all about confidence. You need to know that if you make a mistake, the manager will stick by you.

 

"That didn't happen and I was in and out of the team. It wasn't fair on me or Mark Howard.

 

"Until the new manager arrived, it was the most up-and-down season I've ever had. But the gaffer came in and stuck by me, played me every week and I'm grateful for that.

 

"Jim Leighton's return as goalkeeping coach has also helped me and I feel I've been consistently hitting the form I should have hit earlier this season.

 

"Results haven't been great recently but it's been like a casualty unit here with 10 boys out injured who could easily walk into the team.

 

"I believe the club will now move forward, though. If you look at what the manager has done and the fact we only had 10 points when he came in, you can see that if we start next season the way we've finished this one we're looking at the top six.

 

"There's going to be a massive overhaul with players moving out and others coming in. We haven't discussed my situation yet. Hopefully we can talk next week.

 

"I haven't heard from any other club because I said I wouldn't talk to anybody else until I settled things with Aberdeen. I am not going to get uptight about it."

 

Meanwhile, Dons boss Brown admits he is in the midst of the worst injury crisis of his long career with an entire team sidelined for today's game against St Johnstone.

 

The 70-year-old, who saw Michael Paton and Peter Pawlett added to his casualty list this week, said: "It's the worst I've known in my career and the worst at Pittodrie in 28 years according to physio David Wylie.

 

"We are really up against it and it means we'll have to pack the bench against Saints with our Under-19s."

[DieHardDandy]

OK, not for a second am I saying that this current squad is good enough. Nor am I saying they are giving their all for their manager nor the fans.

 

But let's look at the guys we had in our team yesterday.

 

Langfield - probably rated as one of the top 4 keepers in the SPL? I'm not a fan, but he's a very reasonable keeper for all his faults. Also made the Scotland squad before.

Diamond - regular U21 for his country. Had Celtic interested at one stage in his career and is Hearts bound. Bags of potential when younger.

Smith - played for Rangers and on the books of Norwich.

Vujadinovic - on books of Serie A club and has played at reasonably high standard in his home country, winning a league. Don't think we've got the best out of him for one reason or another.

Young - an average pro, but has had many years at AFC and has played along side some decent players in that time.

Aluko - was on Birmingham books and been capped for full Nigerian national team. A very gifted player on his day.

Milsom - another who has came from EPL side. Probably our best player at this time being.

Jack - a decent youth player, nothing more it must be said.

Magennis - capped by his country.

Maguire - capped for full Scottish international side and touted as one of SPL hot properties (well, mostly by everyone outside of AFC that is!!).

Blackman - scored sh*t loads for Motherwell and on books of EPL side.

 

Now, not for a minute am I saying that any of the above deserve these plaudits. But the facts are, that they - on paper - are better pound for pound, than the likes of Hamilton, St Johnstone, ICT and St Mirren (at very least). If, and it's a big if obviously, they all played to their potential, and were up against St Johnstone, who were all playing to their potential, I think you'd find it hard to argue the point that we'd not come out victors.

Honestly? You've just put a positive spin on everybody. I could refer to the fact that St Johnstone finished above us in the table last season and again this season, how inconsistent and error-prone many of them are, how few games Milsom played for Fulham, how Magennis was a goalie until recently, how the internationals have only played a handful of international games between them etc etc

[OddJob]

My link

 

Playing under Mark McGhee was crazy but it's great with Craig Brown, says Aberdeen No.1 Jamie Langfield

May 7 2011 Ian Orr

 

JAMIE LANGFIELD admits he became a basket case when blundering boss Mark McGhee made him Aberdeen's No.1 keeper then promptly binned him in the reserves.

 

The stopper's confidence was destroyed, his form dipped and it was only when Craig Brown took over at Pittodrie in December and restored him to first choice that he showed the consistency that earned a Scotland call-up.

 

The Dons manager has now tabled an offer to the 30-year-old to extend his deal and his future will be decided next week.

 

Langfield, who has refused to talk to other clubs until that decision is reached, admits he has come a long way since his dark days under McGhee at the start of the season.

 

He said: "Being told I was No.1 then being dropped meant my head was all over the place. Goalkeeping is all about confidence. You need to know that if you make a mistake, the manager will stick by you.

 

"That didn't happen and I was in and out of the team. It wasn't fair on me or Mark Howard.

 

"Until the new manager arrived, it was the most up-and-down season I've ever had. But the gaffer came in and stuck by me, played me every week and I'm grateful for that.

 

"Jim Leighton's return as goalkeeping coach has also helped me and I feel I've been consistently hitting the form I should have hit earlier this season.

 

"Results haven't been great recently but it's been like a casualty unit here with 10 boys out injured who could easily walk into the team.

 

"I believe the club will now move forward, though. If you look at what the manager has done and the fact we only had 10 points when he came in, you can see that if we start next season the way we've finished this one we're looking at the top six.

 

"There's going to be a massive overhaul with players moving out and others coming in. We haven't discussed my situation yet. Hopefully we can talk next week.

 

"I haven't heard from any other club because I said I wouldn't talk to anybody else until I settled things with Aberdeen. I am not going to get uptight about it."

 

Meanwhile, Dons boss Brown admits he is in the midst of the worst injury crisis of his long career with an entire team sidelined for today's game against St Johnstone.

 

The 70-year-old, who saw Michael Paton and Peter Pawlett added to his casualty list this week, said: "It's the worst I've known in my career and the worst at Pittodrie in 28 years according to physio David Wylie.

 

"We are really up against it and it means we'll have to pack the bench against Saints with our Under-19s."

That first emboldened quote from Langfield If that's your best then you might as well just leave Pittodrie now Clangers, deary me.

 

And that last quote by Brown, well sorry Craig but you should have actually started those boys in the match never mind have them on the bench cause at least you'd have got 100% commitment and the fans would have cheered them on and gave them encouragment rather than playing wasters like Diamond, Maguire etc

[Guest]

Honestly? You've just put a positive spin on everybody. I could refer to the fact that St Johnstone finished above us in the table last season and again this season, how inconsistent and error-prone many of them are, how few games Milsom played for Fulham, how Magennis was a goalie until recently, how the internationals have only played a handful of international games between them etc etc

 

No spin on any of them.... thems are the facts buddy. Hence the reason they command a larger wage.

 

No denying they aren't playing to anywhere close to their potential, but that's not my point. Your trying to suggest that 'on paper', before a ball is kicked in the season, if you were to compare like for like, that St Johnstone have a better team than us.

 

Quite frankly, that is tosh. If our lot had played anywhere close to their potential this season, then we'd be 4th or 5th. As it is, they didn't and nor have they for many years (if not decades) now at AFC. I think that was the whole point of the thread.... do the current management team have the ability to drag this club back to a place we expect?

[Stoneybloke]

........ players nowadays tend to not respond to Knox's ways of tacking things and only certain players will respond to this........

As a retired teacher I can agree with this statement. Very few of today's teenagers will respond by quaking in their shoes when they are on the receiving end of an extreme verbal bollocking. It certainly won't achieve much. This was admitted by Ferguson a few weeks ago when he said he can't get away with the famous hair-drier treatment nowadays.

 

Motivation is a very delicate art, and unless you are in the army, which soon weeds out those it doesn't want, just shouting and bawling at them is a waste of time.

 

 

In human behaviour, motivation can be considered to be a force. It is brought to bear when performing actions. Where actions have no purpose motivation is undefined. Where there is purpose it is without doubt that the purpose is better served when the required actions are carried out by people who are motivated rather than by people who are indifferent.

 

The motivated state can then be described as that biological, emotional or cognitive condition which generates a force

[DieHardDandy]

No spin on any of them.... thems are the facts buddy. Hence the reason they command a larger wage.

 

No denying they aren't playing to anywhere close to their potential, but that's not my point. Your trying to suggest that 'on paper', before a ball is kicked in the season, if you were to compare like for like, that St Johnstone have a better team than us.

 

Quite frankly, that is tosh. If our lot had played anywhere close to their potential this season, then we'd be 4th or 5th. As it is, they didn't and nor have they for many years (if not decades) now at AFC. I think that was the whole point of the thread.... do the current management team have the ability to drag this club back to a place we expect?

So mentioning only the good points and ignoring all the bad points isn't spin?? You should work for the government!

[GK55]

Brown and Knox have inherited not just 11-20 players who are not upto the task (most of them!), but a club in an absolute mess IMO.

 

Attitudes from the top, right through to the bottom, mentality of the players, lack of role models, money invested, training facilities, could go on and on....

 

A huge clear out is required, and Brown and Knox know that....i have every faith in them.

 

However, it really does worry me some people are already questioning them after half a season - what chance do they stand!? Give them the time to bring in new players/fresh faces/ideas....

[King Street Loon]

No doubts here.

 

In Brown & Knox I trust.

The board. Not so much.

[Guest]

So mentioning only the good points and ignoring all the bad points isn't spin?? You should work for the government!

 

You just be being purposely stupid here?

 

'ON PAPER' means you look at the merits of a player or a team, based on their level of experience (or their CV). I have completely discounted the reality of ho wthey are playing at this moment in time.

 

When two fighters come in to a ring, you look at the stats... weight, height, reach, knock outs etc, and you say that, on paper, one looks more favourable thna the other.

 

But there is always the unknowns, like how they have prepared, what their mindset is like etc.

 

The players we have in our team were bought on reputation, past levels of experience or having been scouted. Those who came through youth ranks, to a degree, are in the team on merit.

 

The 'spin' is simple facts that anyone could use to favourably sell an individual to a buying team. A team is made up of many constituent parts, and unless those parts all click into gear simultaneously, then it can falter. But that is not to detract from the individual player. Their potential remains, but it's not baring fruit. That can be down to Managerial issues, a problem at the very heart of the club, or lack of individual or team morale.

 

But, the very valid point I raise, is that 'on paper' is a completely different kettle of fish to the reality of how a team performs. It can be deduced therefore, that the phrases, "punching above your weight", or "underachieved", come into play. We have massively underachieved. The question has and will continue to be asked - is that fault of the players, the manager, the board or a combination of everyone involved?

[StandFree1982]

Like last year or the year before, or even the year before that.

Nothing will change!

Getting rid of players who have been in each of the last 3 failed management teams is a start....

[DieHardDandy]

You just be being purposely stupid here?

 

'ON PAPER' means you look at the merits of a player or a team, based on their level of experience (or their CV). I have completely discounted the reality of ho wthey are playing at this moment in time.

 

When two fighters come in to a ring, you look at the stats... weight, height, reach, knock outs etc, and you say that, on paper, one looks more favourable thna the other.

 

But there is always the unknowns, like how they have prepared, what their mindset is like etc.

 

The players we have in our team were bought on reputation, past levels of experience or having been scouted. Those who came through youth ranks, to a degree, are in the team on merit.

 

The 'spin' is simple facts that anyone could use to favourably sell an individual to a buying team. A team is made up of many constituent parts, and unless those parts all click into gear simultaneously, then it can falter. But that is not to detract from the individual player. Their potential remains, but it's not baring fruit. That can be down to Managerial issues, a problem at the very heart of the club, or lack of individual or team morale.

 

But, the very valid point I raise, is that 'on paper' is a completely different kettle of fish to the reality of how a team performs. It can be deduced therefore, that the phrases, "punching above your weight", or "underachieved", come into play. We have massively underachieved. The question has and will continue to be asked - is that fault of the players, the manager, the board or a combination of everyone involved?

And on paper, we have been more sh*te than St Johnstone for about two years. My point is simple and was made further above: someone looking at our teamsheet and their teamsheet before the game would not say that we had a better team. That is all.

[Jack_Glass]

As a retired teacher I can agree with this statement. Very few of today's teenagers will respond by quaking in their shoes when they are on the receiving end of an extreme verbal bollocking. It certainly won't achieve much. This was admitted by Ferguson a few weeks ago when he said he can't get away with the famous hair-drier treatment nowadays.

 

Motivation is a very delicate art, and unless you are in the army, which soon weeds out those it doesn't want, just shouting and bawling at them is a waste of time.

 

good point ref the army, being ex army myself i have no probs responding to the archie knox kinda treatment, in fact i found it actually motivated me even more to improve my performance and self discipline, without it, as a young teen in a local gang i would have went to jail eventually or been killed,

 

personally i think all young folks between 16-18 should be given compulsory 3 month basic military training, get them off the street, teach them new skills and help them grow up a bit as well as paying them a wage and getting them fit

[barassie_afc]

good point ref the army, being ex army myself i have no probs responding to the archie knox kinda treatment, in fact i found it actually motivated me even more to improve my performance and self discipline, without it, as a young teen in a local gang i would have went to jail eventually or been killed,

 

personally i think all young folks between 16-18 should be given compulsory 3 month basic military training, get them off the street, teach them new skills and help them grow up a bit as well as paying them a wage and getting them fit

 

Interesting re the army point , quite a few of my family have been in or are still in the forces. I actually think these cxnts are beyond saving. Said it many times , Maguire being the best example. no courage or heart. I watched Leon Osman get clattered when he scored that great header for Everton (being of similar stature to Chris) and thought Maguire could never score like that.........

[vanderark14]

Interesting re the army point , quite a few of my family have been in or are still in the forces. I actually think these cxnts are beyond saving. Said it many times , Maguire being the best example. no courage or heart. I watched Leon Osman get clattered when he scored that great header for Everton (being of similar stature to Chris) and thought Maguire could never score like that.........

 

I said when McGhee took over that I wasn't sure the players we had would respond no matter who the manager is. They don't want to be told, they think they have made it already

[Jack_Glass]

Giving 100% involves bringing the correct mentality and effort to your performance during a match. Again, if players are professional when they turn up for training and when they step on to the pitch, I couldn't care what they do in their free time. Do you stay in on weekdays as it would not be a great sign of your professionalism when turning up for work with a hangover? Do you have the name of your company tattooed on your bicep? Who cares? As long as when you're at work, you're doing a damned fine job and you act as a 'team player' (to coin an overused HR phrase).

And not winning any trophies in 15 years is because players don't bring 100% during games and because we have had poor attitude ON THE PARK from our players (see McNamara as a prime example).

 

 

 

 

If it doesn't matter - let the supporters in for free!! Brown has had a poor sequence of results. There is no escaping from that. On paper, we have a better team than the likes of St Johnstone and ICT, even allowing for injuries. How then, can the manager not get the best out of them when quite obviously, it means a lot that they perform well, even for what many of you consider, meaningless games. If he didn't believe he could get 100% out of the likes of Maguire, Aluko, Diamond etc, then why play them?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again, it's the manager's decision to play them. Anyone could see Diamond is not interested anymore, nor is Maguire (ball greedy wee prat that he is).

 

 

 

 

Don't fall into the trap of believing everything the media feeds you. They all used to fawn over Calderwood, saying how he was a great manager and we gave him too much flack, and that the sacking was crazy. Yes, he soon fell into a top level job after leaving us didn't he?

 

Not saying Brown isn't a good manager, but is he a great manager? Look at the likes of Paul Lambert and the great job he's done.

 

I have confidence in Brown to get us back to some form of respectability, but whether he can get a pound out of every penny he spends, remains to be seen.

 

is that the same Lambert that got tore a new one at a Livingstone who splashed the cash or the same guy that finished mid table with Colchester United, certainly not any more impressive than McGhee's english record or Calderwood, at least JC kept us in the top 4/5 and got us to cup semis and qualter finals untl the board started cutting the wages even more, then he was sacked, given JC was beginning to expire his shelf life

 

just because lambert has done ok at norwich does not mean he will be a success at any other club, especially aberdeen, many managers have good spells then normal service is resumed

 

CB has done more as a manager than lambert thanks to an international job, so the two can't be compared, CB kept m'well at the top end of the table, made two qualifiers with scotland, stopped us being relegated and now has the toughest job in the SPL resurrecting aberdeen, in my opinion paul lambert would struggle badly at aberdeen

[Jonty]

Craig Brown - "Aberdeen fans shoul be embarassed by their behaviour" towards Zander Diamond on Saturday (back of todays EE).

 

He should be embarassed to come away with that p1sch - surely a case in point of better to say nothing at all on this issue. Last thing we need is any more Mcghee style outbursts from the manager.

[Ernie McCracken]

Craig Brown - "Aberdeen fans shoul be embarassed by their behaviour" towards Zander Diamond on Saturday (back of todays EE).

He should be embarassed to come away with that p1sch - surely a case in point of better to say nothing at all on this issue. Last thing we need is any more Mcghee style outbursts from the manager.

 

 

Yeah but Craig is referring to the Aberdeen fans who didn't boo him.

 

I'm sure the tattie munching c**t drowned his sorrows by getting totally wasted, waking up hungover just in time to catch the Celtic match on the telly.

[barassie_afc]

EE stirring it, if not Craig needs to get a fkn grip