Milne Out Demonstration Ict Game

[effektive]

All this talk of Milne out is misguided rubbish. Surely if Milne was to leave the bank would call in their loans and the club would be in a Hearts type situation with administration lingering and no way to pay the debt? Milne although not spending lavishly on the football side of things has realised what most of you seem to have forgotten, we are in huge debt with the bank and spending more on the team running us further in debt will not add up to getting more money through the club even moderate success up the league would not recoup the financial outlay. He underwrites our debt with the bank, without him we have no football club. Put it this way if he was to sanction spending a million on players, how long do you think it would take to make that investment back. The reality is as a business AFC will not make enough more money by finishing top 6 and such there is no point over investing in the club for little gain. The saving grace for AFC is the stadium deal which could possibly wipe out a lot of the club debt leaving Milne able to walk away from the club without fear of it shutting up shop. AFC is a massive weight round Milnes neck if he could walk away without the club going under I think he would, why would anyone put up with all the hassle? He has said in the past that if someone with enough money wants to come an underwrite the debt either with him or on their own and let him off the hook he would happily listen to them, the truth is anyone in business with that kind of money realises its not a viable business opportunity. Milne out without a single replacement investor would be suicide for AFC.

 

Milne keeps the club afloat with his worth, the bank know he can cover the debt if required and thus its a manageable debt, if he was to leave the club would go under in my opinion. Be careful what you wish for.

[The Boofon]

All this talk of Milne out is misguided rubbish. Surely if Milne was to leave the bank would call in their loans and the club would be in a Hearts type situation with administration lingering and no way to pay the debt? Milne although not spending lavishly on the football side of things has realised what most of you seem to have forgotten, we are in huge debt with the bank and spending more on the team running us further in debt will not add up to getting more money through the club even moderate success up the league would not recoup the financial outlay. He underwrites our debt with the bank, without him we have no football club. Put it this way if he was to sanction spending a million on players, how long do you think it would take to make that investment back. The reality is as a business AFC will not make enough more money by finishing top 6 and such there is no point over investing in the club for little gain. The saving grace for AFC is the stadium deal which could possibly wipe out a lot of the club debt leaving Milne able to walk away from the club without fear of it shutting up shop. AFC is a massive weight round Milnes neck if he could walk away without the club going under I think he would, why would anyone put up with all the hassle? He has said in the past that if someone with enough money wants to come an underwrite the debt either with him or on their own and let him off the hook he would happily listen to them, the truth is anyone in business with that kind of money realises its not a viable business opportunity. Milne out without a single replacement investor would be suicide for AFC.

 

Milne keeps the club afloat with his worth, the bank know he can cover the debt if required and thus its a manageable debt, if he was to leave the club would go under in my opinion. Be careful what you wish for.

 

Complete and utter horse sh*t from top to bottom. Thanks for the input though Mr Milne. You prick.

[effektive]

Complete and utter horse sh*t from top to bottom. Thanks for the input though Mr Milne. You prick.

 

Well thats that cleared up then thanks boofon. (Just to clarify that you are the fountain of knowledge that told us all Riordan was signing for AFC aren't you?) How you still have the right to comment after that debacle amazes me. Someone should have sent you a muzzle.

[baconman]

I'm not talking about from a personal financial aspect, I'm talking about running the club, making smart decisions, putting plans into action, bringing in investment, organising the club efficiently, hiring competent staff, building bridges with the fans, making the club high profile and bringing fans back to the club.... all the stuff Milne has failed to do in his time at the club.

 

Actually, not only has he failed to do these things, we've gone significantly and measurably backwards under his reign.

 

A chairman can be dirt poor, so long as he's competent.

 

Milne is stinking rich and incompetent/deliberately destroying the club (take your pick).

 

I agree with every point you make. The problem is no one is willing to put their balls on the table like he has.

If there is a rich individual willing to either pay off or guarantee the debt like Milne then why havent they come forward?

You're right, the club is being poorly run and Milne probably has a big say in its strategy but i cant see anything changing until some other wealthy buyer comes in and says enough is enough I want to buy you and the board out?

[effektive]

I agree with every point you make. The problem is no one is willing to put their balls on the table like he has.

If there is a rich individual willing to either pay off or guarantee the debt like Milne then why havent they come forward?

You're right, the club is being poorly run and Milne probably has a big say in its strategy but i cant see anything changing until some other wealthy buyer comes in and says enough is enough I want to buy you and the board out?

 

Agree with all of this. As a chairman Milne has failed to deliver the necessary acumen and skills to build the reputation of the club and its staff. From a financial point of view see my above post.

[SheepieBaaBaa]

Agree with all of this. As a chairman Milne has failed to deliver the necessary acumen and skills to build the reputation of the club and its staff. From a financial point of view see my above post.

 

Out if it's just foot stamping and throwing (throw-wig) a tantrum like a 5 year old..... "Milne out, Milne out .. waah waah waah!)

 

HOWEVER...

 

If there's a new investor or investors standing there saying that they are ready to step in and with a plan to invest and improve the club, then I'll be there shouting for S.M. to go.

 

In my view a football club is not a standard business (if it's a business at all) , and whoever comes in would need to be willing to invest without necessary expecting to see a return. Football clubs, other than those at the very top, tend to operate in the red. Who is the "white knight" ready to step in? Let's face it, if we want the curent board out, there needs to be a new board ready to replace them.

[spamspamspam]

All this talk of Milne out is misguided rubbish. Surely if Milne was to leave the bank would call in their loans and the club would be in a Hearts type situation with administration lingering and no way to pay the debt? Milne although not spending lavishly on the football side of things has realised what most of you seem to have forgotten, we are in huge debt with the bank and spending more on the team running us further in debt will not add up to getting more money through the club even moderate success up the league would not recoup the financial outlay. He underwrites our debt with the bank, without him we have no football club. Put it this way if he was to sanction spending a million on players, how long do you think it would take to make that investment back. The reality is as a business AFC will not make enough more money by finishing top 6 and such there is no point over investing in the club for little gain. The saving grace for AFC is the stadium deal which could possibly wipe out a lot of the club debt leaving Milne able to walk away from the club without fear of it shutting up shop. AFC is a massive weight round Milnes neck if he could walk away without the club going under I think he would, why would anyone put up with all the hassle? He has said in the past that if someone with enough money wants to come an underwrite the debt either with him or on their own and let him off the hook he would happily listen to them, the truth is anyone in business with that kind of money realises its not a viable business opportunity. Milne out without a single replacement investor would be suicide for AFC.

 

Milne keeps the club afloat with his worth, the bank know he can cover the debt if required and thus its a manageable debt, if he was to leave the club would go under in my opinion. Be careful what you wish for.

 

I used to think the same way min.

 

If there was a concerted effort by the fans, proper protests, Milne out everywhere etc then it would highlight the fact the club is on the market to the whole country and world. That sort of coverage could attract a buyer.

 

It takes time to find someone to buy but Hearts, Rangers and Celtic have all changed hands in the not so distant past so it isnt an impossibility. The buyer has to be sought though, they aint just going to walk in the door with a wad and say sell me the club.

[K-9]

Complete and utter horse sh*t from top to bottom.

Saved me saying it. I would probably have gone into more detail but prefer this summary.

[K-9]

I agree with every point you make. The problem is no one is willing to put their balls on the table like he has.

If there is a rich individual willing to either pay off or guarantee the debt like Milne then why havent they come forward?

You're right, the club is being poorly run and Milne probably has a big say in its strategy but i cant see anything changing until some other wealthy buyer comes in and says enough is enough I want to buy you and the board out?

Who in their right mind would invest in a club 15 million in debt with a man at the helm who has made loss at the club in every year of his leadership bar 1 year, who is still here and is still overseeing us losing money (just short of 2 million last years accounts) and has absolutely no vision for future bar hoping some folk will give us money for new stadium?

 

But you are right, things will continue and our debt will fly higher and higher with no chance of recuperation.

[tightbreeks]

we should use inception and get donald trump to buy the club.

[dunc_afc]

Question about the whole developing of Pittodrie (regardless if it is milne or not), has anyone ever scattered ashes on the pitch?

[dj_bollocks]

Effektive - who's responsible for the debt ?

[The Boofon]

Question about the whole developing of Pittodrie (regardless if it is milne or not), has anyone ever scattered ashes on the pitch?

 

I haven't personally but I think there have been a few instances of that happening.

 

Mackie for example on his 20 a day L&B habit is bound to have done so.

[dons22]

All this talk of Milne out is misguided rubbish. Surely if Milne was to leave the bank would call in their loans and the club would be in a Hearts type situation with administration lingering and no way to pay the debt? Milne although not spending lavishly on the football side of things has realised what most of you seem to have forgotten, we are in huge debt with the bank and spending more on the team running us further in debt will not add up to getting more money through the club even moderate success up the league would not recoup the financial outlay. He underwrites our debt with the bank, without him we have no football club. Put it this way if he was to sanction spending a million on players, how long do you think it would take to make that investment back. The reality is as a business AFC will not make enough more money by finishing top 6 and such there is no point over investing in the club for little gain. The saving grace for AFC is the stadium deal which could possibly wipe out a lot of the club debt leaving Milne able to walk away from the club without fear of it shutting up shop. AFC is a massive weight round Milnes neck if he could walk away without the club going under I think he would, why would anyone put up with all the hassle? He has said in the past that if someone with enough money wants to come an underwrite the debt either with him or on their own and let him off the hook he would happily listen to them, the truth is anyone in business with that kind of money realises its not a viable business opportunity. Milne out without a single replacement investor would be suicide for AFC.

 

Milne keeps the club afloat with his worth, the bank know he can cover the debt if required and thus its a manageable debt, if he was to leave the club would go under in my opinion. Be careful what you wish for.

 

 

Very true friend i have never been a milne fan but what you wrote is very valid indeed

 

But milne must sometimes push the boat out a small way.

[mizer]

Our support has been so fractious for so many years now that any single issue campaign would fail such as a 'Milne oot'. It is also too early in the season to carry any significant discontent to push for something more positive on behalf of the future of our club. Moves like this have to be supported by the overwhelming majority of fans and as I mentioned the fractious nature of ourselves is very problematic to this. The return of the 'dons for change' idea which was mooted around in the dying days McGhees reign or something very similar with a generalist tone of things need to improve and fans coming together to have a greater voice would be in my opinion be the only way to move ahead but when that time is - if ever - relies on the forthcoming results.

[effektive]

Saved me saying it. I would probably have gone into more detail but prefer this summary.

 

Unlike you I am willing to hear an alternative view. I'll stand by what I have said. Explain please why its utter horse sh*t please? (Oh and lets not forget this is not about who knows best and getting one over, its an adult conversation and alternative thought debate, if you have some good points I will accept it. I do not claim to know all, I offer an opinion that is all.)

 

I wait to be enlightened.

[Ke1t]

Unlike you I am willing to hear an alternative view. I'll stand by what I have said. Explain please why its utter horse sh*t please? (Oh and lets not forget this is not about who knows best and getting one over, its an adult conversation and alternative thought debate, if you have some good points I will accept it. I do not claim to know all, I offer an opinion that is all.)

 

I wait to be enlightened.

 

Because being Chairman and securing the debt are two separate issues.

 

Milne can stand aside, remain on the board, allow someone competent to take his place and continue to secure the debt.

[Ke1t]

why should he do that?

 

Because he's terrible at his job, has been unable to arrest the decline, has overseen massive losses, has been entirely unable to secure investment, has made a string of appalling financial decisions, has repeatedly hired incompetent staff and has his own investment to think of.

 

If you have a significant investment that is being horribly mismanaged, particularly if YOU are the one doing the mismanagement, then it's in your own best interest to bring in someone who knows what the f**k they're doing.

[The Boofon]

Complete and utter horse sh*t from top to bottom. Thanks for the input though Mr Milne. You prick.

 

 

Saved me saying it. I would probably have gone into more detail but prefer this summary.

 

 

Unlike you I am willing to hear an alternative view. I'll stand by what I have said. Explain please why its utter horse sh*t please? (Oh and lets not forget this is not about who knows best and getting one over, its an adult conversation and alternative thought debate, if you have some good points I will accept it. I do not claim to know all, I offer an opinion that is all.)

 

I wait to be enlightened.

 

I'll go first.

 

Surely if Milne was to leave the bank would call in their loans and the club would be in a Hearts type situation with administration lingering and no way to pay the debt? Milne although not spending lavishly on the football side of things has realised what most of you seem to have forgotten, we are in huge debt with the bank and spending more on the team running us further in debt will not add up to getting more money through the club even moderate success up the league would not recoup the financial outlay.

 

 

If Milne was to walk away the bank wouldn't come in and claim the debt.

 

I doubt anyone has forgotten we're in debt. If they have then they are retarded.

 

He underwrites our debt with the bank, without him we have no football club.

 

Again utter drivel. He may have some input as to how we can convince the bank we're good for the money.

 

Put it this way if he was to sanction spending a million on players, how long do you think it would take to make that investment back. The reality is as a business AFC will not make enough more money by finishing top 6 and such there is no point over investing in the club for little gain.

 

No point in letting the club run to the ground either as he'd lose more money that way so your point is garbage.

 

The saving grace for AFC is the stadium deal which could possibly wipe out a lot of the club debt leaving Milne able to walk away from the club without fear of it shutting up shop.

 

You've just countered your own argument about if Milne walks away we're finised. Well done.

 

AFC is a massive weight round Milnes neck if he could walk away without the club going under I think he would, why would anyone put up with all the hassle?

 

I don't know. Alterior motives. How you know it's a massive weight round his neck is beyond me. Speculation and so rightly deemed as horse sh*t.

 

He has said in the past that if someone with enough money wants to come an underwrite the debt either with him or on their own and let him off the hook he would happily listen to them, the truth is anyone in business with that kind of money realises its not a viable business opportunity.

 

No he hasn't. He's said he'd be willing to talk to people about investment if they came along. Nothing to do with underwriting debts or letting him off the hook. Again good fabrication on your part. (Horse sh*t)

 

Milne out without a single replacement investor would be suicide for AFC.

 

Milne couldn't leave without someone coming in as someone would have to buy his shares for him to leave. Again horse sh*t.

 

 

Milne keeps the club afloat with his worth, the bank know he can cover the debt if required and thus its a manageable debt, if he was to leave the club would go under in my opinion. Be careful what you wish for.

 

 

No he doesn't. In your opinion. In other words pure conjecture.

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

I appreciate what you are trying to put across though but it's a myth to say that Milne is the only reason we exist. I know that's not exactly what you did say but it's what you are implying in my opinion.

[Ke1t]

correct, but not move to the side and STILL guarantee a debt!

 

I'm not sure what you mean.

 

Are you saying Milne can't step aside and continue to guarantee the debt?

[Coopy100]

I always thought the stadium thing was a bit of a white elephant. We are circa 10 mill in debt with projected costs of 20 mill to build a new stadium. I don't think the ground pittodrie is on is worth anywhere near 30 mill which would put us on an even keel.

 

As for Milne. he is running the club into the ground and it would completely depend how you wanted him out. If you wanted him out completely then you may be running a risk of him pulling his underwriting of the club debts as well. If you just want him to step aside but still be major shareholder and a presence on the board, like Murray did for a while with the huns, then go for it.

[Ke1t]

I always thought the stadium thing was a bit of a white elephant. We are circa 10 mill in debt with projected costs of 20 mill to build a new stadium. I don't think the ground pittodrie is on is worth anywhere near 30 mill which would put us on an even keel.

 

As for Milne. he is running the club into the ground and it would completely depend how you wanted him out. If you wanted him out completely then you may be running a risk of him pulling his underwriting of the club debts as well. If you just want him to step aside but still be major shareholder and a presence on the board, like Murray did for a while with the huns, then go for it.

 

Would he be able to pull the plug, though?

 

Not knowing the terms of this 'securing of the debt' it's impossible to know...

 

I DO know that if I co-sign on something (say a car) because I have cash and the person who wants to buy a car does not then I can't just walk away from that debt. I'm legally bound to it, regardless of whether I take a sulk and stop talking to the person with whom I co-signed.

 

I don't see how Milne, having underwritten a debt, can just go 'f**k it' and walk away from it. If he signed a contract with the bank then he's bound to it, I would imagine.

 

I could be wrong, but I'd be mighty surprised if Milne could, under any circumstances, just walk away from it.

[Coopy100]

Would he be able to pull the plug, though?

 

Not knowing the terms of this 'securing of the debt' it's impossible to know...

 

I DO know that if I co-sign on something (say a car) because I have cash and the person who wants to buy a car does not then I can't just walk away from that debt. I'm legally bound to it, regardless of whether I take a sulk and stop talking to the person with whom I co-signed.

 

I don't see how Milne, having underwritten a debt, can just go 'f**k it' and walk away from it. If he signed a contract with the bank then he's bound to it, I would imagine.

 

I could be wrong, but I'd be mighty surprised if Milne could, under any circumstances, just walk away from it.

I always thought it is not his debt in the same way that it is your debt if you co sign for a car or mortgage. It is attached to the company and only he is using his personal wealth with the bank to guarantee it but if he walks away the bank can then call in the debts which ultimately rest with the club. RTYD and Dom Sullivan may be able to fill us in a bit better.

 

EDIT: My post doesn't make the best sense. I'll try again and explain myself better. If he walks away he can withdraw his debt guarantee is what I mean which the bank can then call in and the need to pay would rest solely with the club.

[Ke1t]

EDIT: Doesn't make sense. If he walks away he can withdraw his debt guarantee is what I mean which the bank can then call in and the need to pay would rest solely with the club.

 

Possibly, but it would seem odd to me that the bank would allow Milne (who actually has money) to guarantee club debt on the understanding that Milne can walk away from the debt, meaning the bank is left to just hope that they can get some of their cash back from the sale of the club.

 

But given the club and the stadium are now two separate entities, what would the bank expect to get in the way of money from AFC, which would appear to have no money and no assets?

[Ke1t]

yes

 

Why not?

[Coopy100]

Possibly, but it would seem odd to me that the bank would allow Milne (who actually has money) to guarantee club debt on the understanding that Milne can walk away from the debt, meaning the bank is left to just hope that they can get some of their cash back from the sale of the club.

 

But given the club and the stadium are now two separate entities, what would the bank expect to get in the way of money from AFC, which would appear to have no money and no assets?

I thought AFC still owned pittodrie or the holding company that owns it? Anything I can find on the web after a quick google seems to suggest so. If AFC didn't own pittodrie they would be due no funds from its sale.

[The Boofon]

A little digging came up with this.

 

Old link

 

"The Stewart Milne Group and Aberdeen Asset Management have agreed to lend the

[spamspamspam]

There's no denying that having a chairman with a company worth over 200m helps us with the bank when it comes to how large the overdraft is. Milne could step aside as chairman though and still be the banks guarantee for the debt. It would only be an issue if he sold his shares.

 

People are also forgetting the other multi millionaire we have sitting on the board, what does Gilbert actually do for the club? He's on the board for First, owns AAM which is a company that sells investment portfolios... Why hasnt someone from AFC actually invested some of AFC's money using Gilberts supposed expertise.

 

We have 2 of Aberdeens richest men sitting at the helm of our club yet we cant even afford a freebie left back.

[V for Vendetta]

There's no denying that having a chairman with a company worth over 200m helps us with the bank when it comes to how large the overdraft is. Milne could step aside as chairman though and still be the banks guarantee for the debt. It would only be an issue if he sold his shares.

 

People are also forgetting the other multi millionaire we have sitting on the board, what does Gilbert actually do for the club? He's on the board for First, owns AAM which is a company that sells investment portfolios... Why hasnt someone from AFC actually invested some of AFC's money using Gilberts supposed expertise.

 

We have 2 of Aberdeens richest men sitting at the helm of our club yet we cant even afford a freebie left back.

 

Correctamundo.

 

Milne could continue to guarantee the debt without necessarily being chairman.

 

And as you say what ARE Gilbert and the other major shareholder contributing except for a nod of agreement whenever Milne comes up with a new proposal to cut costs.

[torrysheep82]

OUT

 

By a long f**king way you imbicile.

 

Not the time nor the place FFS - makes the red army look like a bunch of idiots, 4 games in you prima donna.

 

COYR

 

4 games in or 15 years in of woefull underachievement ........................imbecile

 

Cant you see a trend?