Westminster V Holyrood

[Bobby Connor]

This could be interesting!

 

DC saying we cannae vote?

 

SNP will spin this to the max.

[Ke1t]

This could be interesting!

 

DC saying we cannae vote?

 

SNP will spin this to the max.

 

Plenty Scots want to be the bitch of the English.

[tightbreeks]

logistical nightmare. fatty salmond has got a lot to do. careful what you wish for.

 

i think we should go for it.

 

where would the nuclear subs be kept?

[zander]

This could be interesting!

 

DC saying we cannae vote?

 

SNP will spin this to the max.

 

Nae read much into this latest one, but why is he saying we can't vote?

[Foster14]

Nae read much into this latest one, but why is he saying we can't vote?

 

I read it as more as either suggesting that the UK would effectively have to vote on allowing Scotland to leave the Union or that the UK Government would ultimately dictate what the actual Scottish referendum questions would be...

 

They seem worried anyways, and I am not at all surprised that they are starting off the no campaign with negative campaigning.

[Bobby Connor]

Nae read much into this latest one, but why is he saying we can't vote?

 

David Cameron / Westminster reckon that any referendum will not be legally binding.

 

It's a strange move on their part because it is likely to ruffle a few feathers. Alex Salmond was just on the news absolutely loving it. He says that the result of any referendum will be 'advisory' only. It's obvious that the result of the referendum will be clear cut and the reasons behind Cameron interfering can only be speculated at.

 

I reckon he's made a massive fuax pax here. Or they want rid of Scotland, which is fine by me.

[zander]

I'm nae expert on how Scotland works etc but surely any decision to make Scotland independent lies with the Queen, house of lords etc and nae the Torries ?

[Bobby Connor]

I'm nae expert on how Scotland works etc but surely any decision to make Scotland independent lies with the Queen, house of lords etc and nae the Torries ?

 

Any decision to make Scotland independent lies with the Scottish people. No-one else has anything to do with it.

[Ke1t]

I'm nae expert on how Scotland works etc but surely any decision to make Scotland independent lies with the Queen, house of lords etc and nae the Torries ?

 

Surely as a theoretically voluntary participant in the UK, Scotland has the right to withdraw based on how Scotland feels, rather than whether the English want Scotland to be Independent or not.

[zander]

I understand we get a vote, but Cameron's point about legality surely that goes way above the house of commons?

[Bobby Connor]

I understand we get a vote, but Cameron's point about legality surely that goes way above the house of commons?

 

As far as I see it DC is being deliberately obtuse. He kens fine well that if we vote for independence he will have no say in us getting it.

 

If he wants the retention of the union then he has badly fucked up today.

 

He's playing into the hands of a far more intelligent politician whose entire career is focussed on one goal. I still doubt it will happen but Alex Salmond is 100x the politician that David Cameron will ever be.

[Dandie1992]

Any decision to make Scotland independent lies with the Scottish people. No-one else has anything to do with it.

 

100% true.

 

The whole reason we are having a referendum is because of an election to the SCOTTISH PARLIAMENT, of which the Conservative Party have little to no power in. And it is a different fucking election to the one that put them in power in the first place.

 

The more Cameron talks, the more ammuntion he is giving to pro-independence. He does not understand the psyche of the Scottish people (partly because it is a different fucking country).

 

100% for independence.

[Dandie1992]

I read it as more as either suggesting that the UK would effectively have to vote on allowing Scotland to leave the Union or that the UK Government would ultimately dictate what the actual Scottish referendum questions would be...

 

They seem worried anyways, and I am not at all surprised that they are starting off the no campaign with negative campaigning.

 

Are you seriously saying the Cameron said that it was a UK vote on this? Not a Scottish vote?

 

If so ... :hysterical: :hysterical:

 

That's fucking Boris Johnson style stupidity.

 

Cameron, you are a fucking tool.

[Bebo]

logistical nightmare. fatty salmond has got a lot to do. careful what you wish for.

 

i think we should go for it.

 

where would the nuclear subs be kept?

 

Why should we care? That would be for the English/Welsh/Northern Irish to worry about.

[Foster14]

Are you seriously saying the Cameron said that it was a UK vote on this? Not a Scottish vote?

 

If so ... :hysterical: :hysterical:

 

That's fucking Boris Johnson style stupidity.

 

Cameron, you are a fucking tool.

 

He worded it so openly, I am not sure. One thing he said was it had to be in the interests of the UK. Only one way they could work that out, Shirley?

 

I personally only see the referendum going one way. On the fence myself, but the Tories in control of Wsetminster, (with the help of the Rentboys) are very effectively rubbing Scots up the wrong way and also the complete lack of a left in the UK parliament nowadays means the 'yes' campaign has the easy job in my opinion. The 'no' campaign on the other hand needs to come up with a good strategy. I don't think they will, it will be hugely negative. Cameron and co will be one of the main reasons we end up an independent nation.

[Betty Swallicks]

DS wanting 16year olds to get a vote on this knowing many will have watched Braveheart and vote yes.

 

Fat cunt wants to pick and choose fa gets to vote despite what the electoral commission say.

 

Latest poll has a mere 29% wanting out of the union.

[Bobby Connor]

DS wanting 16year olds to get a vote on this knowing many will have watched Braveheart and vote yes.

 

Fat cunt wants to pick and choose fa gets to vote despite what the electoral commission say.

 

Latest poll has a mere 29% wanting out of the union.

 

That's why I still reckon it's highly unlikely. It's a couple of years off though and the bastard Tory party could swing it a fair way in that timescale.

[Miglo don]

Why should we care? That would be for the English/Welsh/Northern Irish to worry about.

 

We would have our own army but as we would still be part of the commonwealth anyone could join the British army if they wanted.

 

It's incredible that a party who have no representation in this country are getting involved!

[Ke1t]

Take the poll in Govan and you'll get about 0% of respondents wanting independence.

 

How questions are worded also has a massive bearing on poll outcomes.

 

I'd guess the true figures are closer to 50% independence - 50% Bitches of the English

[looksgoodinred]

That's why I still reckon it's highly unlikely. It's a couple of years off though and the bastard Tory party could swing it a fair way in that timescale.

 

As noted in The Economist:

 

Moreover, rumour has it that Mr Cameron wants the referendum to take place within the next 18 months. The cynical suspicion, therefore, is that Mr Cameron’s Conservatives, whose very identity—the formal name is the Conservative and Unionist Party—involves the unity of the UK, reckon that the sooner the Scots are asked, the less likely they are to vote to leave the union. Mr Salmond doubtless fears the same thing, hence his apparent preference for a referendum in 2014.

 

Understandably, it is the timing question that dominated this morning's headlines, after what was clearly robust briefing by sources close to the prime minister. The morning newspapers reported that Mr Cameron's brilliant wheeze involves making the SNP a time-limited offer of a binding referendum, with a shelf-life of just 18 months. Only the Westminster Parliament has the power to order a legally-binding referendum, the same papers report, so logically this would pose quite a dilemma for Mr Salmond and the Scots Nats, prodding them to hold their vote by 2013 at the latest. The Independent called it a poker move, and you can see what they mean: it sounds as if Mr Cameron is seeing Mr Salmond's consultative vote, raising him a binding referendum and calling him.

 

As for the legality of it:

 

Within the government, there is some surprise that the whole obeying-the-law thing is not attracting more attention. Sources point to a growing body of legal opinion arguing the Scottish parliament has no right to organise a referendum on Scotland's constitutional settlement with the United Kingdom. Under the terms of the 1998 Scotland Act that set up the Holyrood parliament, constitutional questions are "reserved" for the British parliament in Westminster.

 

Government ministers believe that that if the Scottish parliament passed legislation to hold a referendum, it would certainly face legal challenges, plunging the whole process into uncertainty if not chaos. The House of Lords fairly heaves with distinguished former Scottish judges and politicians who care very much about the legal niceties, and who are poised to table any number of amendments to the Scotland Bill when it enters committee stage in the upper house on January 26th.

 

In short, the government in London is sure that it has a legal mandate to weigh in, whether the fierier sort of nationalist cares to admit it.

[Bobby Connor]

As noted in The Economist:

 

Moreover, rumour has it that Mr Cameron wants the referendum to take place within the next 18 months. The cynical suspicion, therefore, is that Mr Cameron

[Bobby Connor]

As noted in The Economist:

 

Moreover, rumour has it that Mr Cameron wants the referendum to take place within the next 18 months. The cynical suspicion, therefore, is that Mr Cameron

[Dandie1992]

DS wanting 16year olds to get a vote on this knowing many will have watched Braveheart and vote yes.

 

Fat cunt wants to pick and choose fa gets to vote despite what the electoral commission say.

 

Latest poll has a mere 29% wanting out of the union.

 

Doesn't matter fuck what the % of people who want it is...it's what % of that VOTE.

 

If only the people who want independence vote, then you've got 100% yes on independence.

 

I think people who want independence are more likely to vote than people who don't want it.

 

So I think you'll have around a 50% close-call.

 

Plus I heard that it will only be Scottish-born citizens who can vote in the referendum (fingers crossed ) thus negating English interference.

[looksgoodinred]

sorry, lol.. i was trying to cut and paste the bits i wanted from a couple of different articles, without adding on more messages.

[Bobby Connor]

Doesn't matter fuck what the % of people who want it is...it's what % of that VOTE.

 

If only the people who want independence vote, then you've got 100% yes on independence.

 

I think people who want independence are more likely to vote than people who don't want it.

 

So I think you'll have around a 50% close-call.

 

Plus I heard that it will only be Scottish-born citizens who can vote in the referendum (fingers crossed ) thus negating English interference.

 

No chance of that happening, and would be completely wrong and racist if it did. The citizens of Scotland get to vote, including the English, Polish or whatever. Everyone else gets to mind their own business.

[Dandie1992]

No chance of that happening, and would be completely wrong and racist if it did. The citizens of Scotland get to vote, including the English, Polish or whatever. Everyone else gets to mind their own business.

 

Thought so.

 

Heard something on the news other side of the house and thought it was saying it was only for people born in Scotland. Dinna ken fit that was in reference to then.

[OddJob]

No chance of that happening, and would be completely wrong and racist if it did. The citizens of Scotland get to vote, including the English, Polish or whatever. Everyone else gets to mind their own business.

Aye that would be ridiculous if that was the case. I mean it could be an English born person who's lived in Scotland all their life. So if that were the case they wouldn't get a say? No chance of that.

[ericblack4boss]

that smarmy cunt Camerons grandparents hail from just outside Huntly, ( the Glass area to be specific), thiugh he chooses to keep that quiet from his guffy friends and peers.

[Liam]

that smarmy cunt Camerons grandparents hail from just outside Huntly, ( the Glass area to be specific), thiugh he chooses to keep that quiet from his guffy friends and peers.

 

Dinna say that, Craig Levein will be trying to call him up for the next Scotland squad.

[Big Man]

This could be interesting!

 

DC saying we cannae vote?

 

SNP will spin this to the max.

 

That's definitely not what DC is/was saying. He was just quietly reminding the devolved administration of the terms of the Scotland act (which they ken fine well), and at the same time affirming Westministers legislative sovereignty. Which he's absolutely right to do. There's already talk amongst some of this being thrashed out in the Supreme court.

 

All this shit however is irrelevant in my opinion. This entire situation transcends the law - if Holyrood holds an advisory referendum and, the population votes in the positive, and Westminister refuses to do anything about it there will be a civil war (support for the SNP and devolution will surge, Salmond will be become a martyr for the cause, and Cameron will have signed the Conservatives death warrant in Scotland). Absolute chaos.

 

Salmond can't loose here.

 

What i think will happen is: Salmond will ignore Cameron and go ahead with an advisory referendum, people will vote No for independence and Yes for Devo Max - from here if Westminister plays ball and negotiates new powers, Salmond advances his position and consolidates his power, if they refuse to play to play ball the SNP support and the Scottish proletariat will spit their dummy out the pram, support for independence will surge, Westminister will be forced into holding their own legally binding referendum and we will win.

 

Like i said, in his current position there is no way Salmond can loose. Im enjoying sitting back and watching the chaos unfold - you can already see certain MP's shitting themselves.