Plutonium Powered Mars Transformer Touches Down

[Ke1t]

Latest Mars Rover, Curiosity, touches down and has sent back the first pictures from the surface. For a multi million dollar, Hi-tech space probe it's still taking black and white pictures from what appears to be a 1 megapixel Argos kids waterproof and bump proof camera.

 

Hopefully it has better cameras on board that whatever it's using right now, because this one sucks.

 

 

Thes particular Rover is aimed at discovering whether or not life developed on Mars before the atmosphere disappeared and the whole planet turned into desert. Yet again NASA avoids landing anything anywhere near Cydonia. Surely a trip to the plains there would settle once and for all whether or not there are artificial structures poking up out of the ground. And, again, they manage to NOT investigate things like this...

 

 

Nor are they going to bother checking out these things...

 

 

Hopeully there's a fossilized bacteria circus in the hole in the desert that they ARE investigating.

[Bobby Connor]

The touch down sequence for this thing was fucking immense. Parachute followed by rocket powered decent and the lowered down to the surface.

 

A simply staggering feat of engineering.

 

There is another one in the pipeline that is also nuclear powered but is a lot, lot bigger.

[Bobby Connor]

They're clearly not listening to that showman that you vest so much interest in Kelt.

[spamspamspam]

Why would a space agency run and funded by a god fearing nation where Christianity, God and Jesus are rolled out on a daily basis by every leader its had since it conception go all out to prove life was on other planets and with that smash their future funding?

[Bobby Connor]

FFS! MT is in early this time. I predict science and logic will be out of the window very shortly.

[Ke1t]

I suppose the difference between 'God' and a 'Creator' is largely semantic.

 

For example, we're getting to the stage where we can think about the practical construction of artifical, or almost entirely artifically created, life forms.

 

Right now we're making artifical bacteria in labs... we're creating life of a sort.

 

Even in robotics we're getting closer to a form of artificial intelligence, and maybe somewhere along the line an AI could, reasonably, be expected to develop a degree of self-awareness.

 

As their 'creator', does that make men 'Gods'?

 

Seems if you use the Bible as an instruction manual then you could plausibly say, yup, we're creating and manipulating life... we are its Gods.

 

But back to the OP, Curiosity is down, it's in a big hole in the desert, and we're going to see if it finds any actual proof of life rather than what we have currently... which is the 'Crossing Over With John Edward' version of evidence.

 

"I'm seeing the letter B... or a Martian blueberry"

 

 

EDIT: Just to say, you land on Cydonia and trundle your Rover up to one of the 'Pyramids' or alleged artificial constructions and that will potentially end any and all speculation. Because if you DO send the Rover to Cydonia, and you find it pointing its camera at a giand fucking pyramid, then it's probably safe to assume some civilisation WAS creeping around the Martian surface a little while ago.

 

[Bobby Connor]

They landed where they did because, from a scientific point of view, there is the opportunity to analyse millions of years of Mars history as a planet.

 

For them to land where some nutjob reckons there are 'man-made' structures would be anti-science. That sort of nonsense could be easily sorted out by an orbiter.

[Ke1t]

They landed where they did because, from a scientific point of view, there is the opportunity to analyse millions of years of Mars history as a planet.

 

For them to land where some nutjob reckons there are 'man-made' structures would be anti-science. That sort of nonsense could be easily sorted out by an orbiter.

 

We've been dropping probes all over the place, but pointedly ignoring areas of interest. The poles, (Martian) annually melt actual water into the Northern and Southern hemispheres. Given our understanding of life's need for water, and the existence of vegetation here on Earth that lies dormant waiting for seasonal rain, it might be an idea to go looking where the water is maybe just once, rather than in the vast stretches of desert?

 

On orbiter isn't going to pick up small patches of vegetation... you need to send something in on the ground.

 

Remember, something is producing methane on Mars, and it probably isn't lifeless rock.

 

Also, I wouldn't call investigating areas of interest 'anti-science'. I'd say that's satisfying a natural, human curiosity. There are people who, admittedly, are entirely incurious as to odd structures or formations, but I'd say an absence of curiosity is more anti-science than the expression of that natural curiosity.

 

I'd also point out that NASA is government, ergo publically, funded... they DO understand the need to keep the public happy. I remember very well the 'revelation' from NASA that there were signs of life in a Martian meteorite... RIGHT before NASA funding was up for review. They need to strike a balance between pure science and satisfying curiosity... this isn't NASA's own, private club.

 

I know I'd like to know what the hell these things are, and no orbiter is going to tell me anything more than what we already see, unfortunately.

 

I'm less interested in Cydonia than I am in the poles where liquid water periodically appears...

[Ando]

New pic just in.

 

[Bobby Connor]

They are running a scientific mission to answer the following questions:

 

1. Has Mars ever supported life?

2. At which point in time did Mars become incapable of supporting life.

 

The landing site is chosen because it allows various strata of rock to be accessed and analysed. There is no conspiracy theory. Scientists work in a linear and progressive movement. Get the data, analyse the data, move on. It's a bit slow to make an action movie out of it but it's the way they roll.

[Bobby Connor]

New pic just in.

 

 

[Ke1t]

They are running a scientific mission to answer the following questions:

 

1. Has Mars ever supported life?

2. At which point in time did Mars become incapable of supporting life.

 

The landing site is chosen because it allows various strata of rock to be accessed and analysed. There is no conspiracy theory. Scientists work in a linear and progressive movement. Get the data, analyse the data, move on. It's a bit slow to make an action movie out of it but it's the way they roll.

 

Well, first thing is I'm not suggesting there is a conspiracy.. however we can't say there's no conspiracy, because this is government we're dealing with and they are, by their very nature, secretive and duplicitous.

 

The Manhattan Project, Stealth technology, HAARP, The Tuskegee Experiments, The Stargate Project.... all documented examples of governmental secrecy. Secrecy is an accepted and documented component of government research.... I see absolutely no reason to assume that NASA is under any different mandate. If something of artificial construction were to be discovered I certainly wouldn't expect NASA to reveal their findings until an exhaustive study had been conducted, assuming the findings ever were to be revealed.

 

I understand the need for structured examination and study, but this is the third Rover the United States has landed in the desert, still ignoring the very regions where water permanently exists on the surface, both in liquid and frozen form.

 

And, not to labour the point, but given the connection between life and water, it's... let's just say annoying that NASA is pointedly ignoring the polar regions.

 

There was a dedicated Mars Polar Lander, to be fair, and it made it all the way to Mars about a decade and a half ago. Predictably, "All communication was lost" with the lander, and we've seen no data from that particular mission.

[Bobby Connor]

And say they find nothing, as we are all expecting - what a waste of money this whole project has been.

 

No. A negative result is a result. It answers one question. A negative result, however, proves nothing. It's just a suggestion.

[Bobby Connor]

Well, first thing is I'm not suggesting there is a conspiracy.. however we can't say there's no conspiracy, because this is government we're dealing with and they are, by their very nature, secretive and duplicitous.

 

The Manhattan Project, Stealth technology, HAARP, The Tuskegee Experiments, The Stargate Project.... all documented examples of governmental secrecy. Secrecy is an accepted and documented component of government research.... I see absolutely no reason to assume that NASA is under any different mandate. If something of artificial construction were to be discovered I certainly wouldn't expect NASA to reveal their findings until an exhaustive study had been conducted, assuming the findings ever were to be revealed.

 

I understand the need for structured examination and study, but this is the third Rover the United States has landed in the desert, still ignoring the very regions where water permanently exists on the surface, both in liquid and frozen form.

 

And, not to labour the point, but given the connection between life and water, it's... let's just say annoying that NASA is pointedly ignoring the polar regions.

 

There was a dedicated Mars Polar Lander, to be fair, and it made it all the way to Mars about a decade and a half ago. Predictably, "All communication was lost" with the lander, and we've seen no data from that particular mission.

 

Do you not think that the States would be itching to be the country that found life on another planet? It would be an immense achievement for them.

[Ke1t]

Do you not think that the States would be itching to be the country that found life on another planet? It would be an immense achievement for them.

 

That would be short term, and hollow, gain for the loss of long term benefit.

 

Put it this way, you're out prospecting in the hills and you hit a vein of gold. Your options are,

 

A. Running into town shouting, "ME FOON GOLDZ!" and being the guy who found gold.

 

B. Keeping it quiet for as long as possible, and mining the shit out of that gold vein before anyone else catches wise.

 

Finding proof of life on Mars would be like striking gold. I'd expect the Americans to want to get all the data they could, and keep it quiet for as long as they could, before they even hinted that they'd found something.

 

I appreciate the reasoning behind the investigation of the Gale Crater, and IF the Rover can find a way to scale the sides of this crater (I've no idea the pitch or makeup, so maybe it's a gentle trundle rather than a mighty climb), then it may find signs of long extinct life.

 

My issue is that we know something is creating methane, it's plausible to imagine that organic life is responsible, and it also follows that organic life (as we know it) is most likely to be found where there's water. And there's water at the poles, not... to our knowledge... at the bottom of the Gale Crater.

 

Even finding a primitive fungus clinging precariously to a Martian polar rock would be infinitely more important to science than finding signs of long-extinct water flows or 'blueberries' in the desert regions.

 

While most of the polar cap isn't water, a significant portion is just that.

 

 

EDIT: I stand to be corrected and amazed when something significant turns up in the walls of Gale.... I won't hold my breath, though. I think turning a few polar rocks over and looking underneath would serve a more practical purpose, however.

[Bobby Connor]

I accept your point but I have to assume that actual scientists are going about this in a methodical fashion.

 

Water = life would be my assumption too.

[Bobby Connor]

The methane on Mars has been put down to potential underground cave life by Brian Cox. This is just a theory.

 

I think they have it right with this mission. They want to know what's gone on in the past because at the moment there is not much happening on Mars and the atmosphere was wiped out at some point in the planet's history.

 

These are important questions to answer and will give a much better overall picture.

[Bobby Connor]

It's also worth bearing in mind that it's absolutely baltic on Mars. Far colder than anywhere on Earth.

 

-52 degrees C average.

 

That's not an impossible environment for life but it's fucking cold and colder than Antarctica.

[Ke1t]

The methane on Mars has been put down to potential underground cave life by Brian Cox. This is just a theory.

 

I've seen the 'Methane no sign of life' stuff... but I think that's poorly worded. Methane is a sign of life. Methane simply isn't a guarantee of life. Very distinct difference. There are various possible reasons for the presence of methane, and life certainly cannot be excluded as a potential source simply because alternative sources can be theorised.

 

I think they have it right with this mission. They want to know what's gone on in the past because at the moment there is not much happening on Mars and the atmosphere was wiped out at some point in the planet's history.

 

These are important questions to answer and will give a much better overall picture.

 

NASA's dumbest scientist probably has a hundred IQ points on me on my best day, so I'm not going to say they're going about this the wrong way... although the appeal to authority is a common fallacy, so I'm not going to say they're not wrong

 

What I'll say is that if I were to be given a shot at looking for signs of life on Earth, I wouldn't be sending probes into the Gobi Desert in the hope of maybe running into a fossil...

 

 

I'd be sending my probe to the place with the highest potentiality for finding life, past AND present, and that's anywhere there's water.

 

[Bobby Connor]

They are not looking for current life Kelt. They are out to discover the history of Mars. Less glamorous but probably more sensible.

 

Would be awesome if it all ended with a big space battle, no-one would like to see that more than me!

[Ke1t]

They are not looking for current life Kelt. They are out to discover the history of Mars. Less glamorous but probably more sensible.

 

Meh... I'd be stacking the odds in my favour and looking for current AND prior life. Regardless... they've made their decision. I'm not really holding out any hope for anything that advances our knowledge in the slightest, however

 

Would be awesome if it all ended with a big space battle, no-one would like to see that more than me!

 

Possibly already happened

 

The Russians sent a probe some time back... it encountered "Something that should not have been there" according to the Soviets. An object that was half photographed on optical and infrared cameras before contact was lost with the probe. The 'Last Photograph' from Phobos 2 is a puzzle, leaving out all the 'aliens' stuff and just dealing with the pictures sent back.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_x68J3tZjY

[Bobby Connor]

Space battles are the stuff teenage dreams are made of. I'd love to witness or be involved in a proper space battle. Hand me that laser gun Mister Bond!

[Bobby Connor]

Either a space battle or a square go with a shark.

[Ke1t]

Either a space battle or a square go with a shark.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iOeFPE8574

[bonzodaddy73]

A space shark? MT will know of there existence I bet

[Bobby Connor]

How can they be jamming us if they don't know...

 

Holy shite! Billions of Tie fighters Luke!

[Ke1t]

A space shark? MT will know of there existence I bet

 

MT likely has one... the best one

[bonzodaddy73]

MT likely has one... the best one

Oh yeah that's a given

[Bobby Connor]

Love how a lowly A-wing takes out the Super Star Destroyer. GIRUY!

[Ke1t]

Love how a lowly A-wing takes out the Super Star Destroyer. GIRUY!

 

Odd how kamikaze attacks on Americans is an atrocity committed by fanatics, but kamikaze attacks BY Americans *cough* The Rebels