Immigration Is Not A Drain On Public Coffers

[fatjim]

Immigration into the world’s largest economies has a negligible effect on the public finances of host countries, with foreign arrivals contributing about as much in tax revenues as they receive in benefits, according to a new report on Thursday from the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development.

The OECD said its International Migration Outlook report for 2013 is the first to take a comprehensive look at what is probably the most politically charged aspect of many nations’ domestic debate about immigration policy; its effect on welfare spending.

Moreover, in countries where immigrants take out more than they put in, the root cause is more likely to be the result of policies undertaken many years earlier rather than from recent liberalisation of rules that have boosted the percentage of foreign born residents of OECD countries to 12.5 per cent by 2011. Of that 2.3 percentage points occurred over the last decade.

The OECD said it decided to examine the full fiscal effects of migration because opinion polls in member states show that over half of respondents believe that the new arrivals are a net drain on the national purse.

“There are fears that immigration may put further pressure on the public purse at a time when fiscal consolidation is at the forefront of policy agendas,” the OECD said, adding that these concerns are held not just by fringe political adherents but by mainstream supporters as well.

Failure to understand the effects of immigration could give rise to policies that make it much harder for member states to adapt to demographic change that is shrinking the working age population while boosting the numbers of retirees.

India, China and Pakistan, followed by Poland, are the largest exporters of migrants into the 33 members of the OECD. But Romania, which has only 0.3 per cent of global population, exports a higher percentage of its populace than any other country.

“Migration represents neither a significant gain nor drain for the public purse,” the report concluded. “Immigrants are pretty much like the rest of the population in this respect.”

Jean-Christophe Dumont, head of the international migration division of the OECD, said that while it is clear that international migrants make a lower net contribution to national coffers than their native-born counterparts, the reason is they earn lower average wages, not because they draw more benefits.

One factor that accounts for lower benefits is that new migrants are almost entirely of working age and are too young to receive pensions. They may also be ineligible for certain unemployment relief although they are more likely to be able to obtain certain social benefits.

On average, households headed by immigrants contributed about €5,000 more than they received in benefits in 2007-09, with negative contributions only in Germany and smaller eastern European states with lower immigrant populations.

The study also found that immigrants are at higher risk of unemployment and underemployment than native-born populations. The unemployment rate of the foreign-born rose by 5 percentage points between 2008 and 2012, whereas for the native-born the increase was more modest: 3 percentage points.

 

Interesting read from the financial times.

[daytripping]

What a load of rubbish.

 

The financial cost may be negligible when taking it down to the basics of taxation and benefits paid out but that doesn't come near to telling the whole story.

 

The Country has a massive housing shortage, look at Aberdeen, thousands of families are on the waiting lists, being an immigrant with a family lets you jump ahead of the indigenous people, that's a fact, it isn't racist. I won't go into the job market as it puts no pressure on the people here but it will do in other less prosperous areas.

 

The National health service which is already creaking now has a huge extra burden, hundreds of thousands of people who have never paid into the system can get first class medical treatment here, god only knows the cost especially in Scotland where even prescriptions are free.

 

The extra burden on police, while the majority are law abiding citizens many are not, the likes of London is overrun right now by organised Eastern European criminals, from shoplifting to child prostitution these people are at it on a massive scale, this is also stretching our prison system to breaking point.

 

I'm not against immigration but it should be way more tightly controlled, the open doors policy can't be sustained.

[fatjim]

Any facts to back up your racist agenda DT?

[spamspamspam]

What a load of rubbish.

 

The financial cost may be negligible when taking it down to the basics of taxation and benefits paid out but that doesn't come near to telling the whole story.

 

The Country has a massive housing shortage, look at Aberdeen, thousands of families are on the waiting lists, being an immigrant with a family lets you jump ahead of the indigenous people, that's a fact, it isn't racist. I won't go into the job market as it puts no pressure on the people here but it will do in other less prosperous areas.

 

The National health service which is already creaking now has a huge extra burden, hundreds of thousands of people who have never paid into the system can get first class medical treatment here, god only knows the cost especially in Scotland where even prescriptions are free.

 

The extra burden on police, while the majority are law abiding citizens many are not, the likes of London is overrun right now by organised Eastern European criminals, from shoplifting to child prostitution these people are at it on a massive scale, this is also stretching our prison system to breaking point.

 

I'm not against immigration but it should be way more tightly controlled, the open doors policy can't be sustained.

 

Na min

 

This is a load of rubbish.

 

There is no queue jumping just because you're foreign, thats a myth. A family of 4 gets priority over a couple for a house but nationality doesnt come into it. I also cant remember a load of immigrants coming into the country in the 80's, selling all the council houses and not building more. The blame for this lies with councils, no fucker else.

 

If you bothered looking into what we then get from countries because of our NHS service then you'd realise this point is Daily rad top bollocks as well. You bust yourself up in Europe, you flash your UK NHS traveller card, you get free care. You work in UAE, you show your passport, you get free care. The fact we give free medical care to people living in this country, LIVING being the main word there means a lot of countries then give us free health care.

 

Anyone going into a hospital without an NI card and a UK address will be charged for NHS care.

 

Like there wasnt organised crime before immigration? Child prostitution is bad, just as bad as the goat fucking child molesting rings we have where the likes of tup lives. Born and bred here they were but yeh, lets chuck all the fucking foreigners out just because a few of them are just as perverted as our own.

 

There is no doors wide open policy, fucking ridiculous thing to say. It can take up to 6 months now for a non EU national to get a work visa for the UK.

[daytripping]

Spam,

 

My point still stands, a family of Polish people for example will jump ahead of indigenous people on the housing list, is that really fair because the family have more kids, what about the rights of someone who has paid into the system for years? I would have no hope of council housing even though I've paid into the system for nigh on 30 years and never claimed anything back.

 

I'm not interested in the politics of it re housing shortages I'm just stating that we don't have a surplus waiting to be filled, immigration doesn't help things no matter how it's dressed up, I'm sure even you would concede it adds a huge burden on to our councils.

 

I'm also not saying people shouldn't get free health care, I'm saying our Country is in no position to take on an extra burden, even before the huge Eastern European influx it was struggling, now it's on its knees. We can't build more hospitals because as a nation we're massively in debt, we can't afford it. How will extra immigrants coming here help this situation?

 

Ed Balls suggested last week that we can't afford the burden of paying the current pension at its already pathetic rate, he suggests cutting it to £5000 a year, this is for people who have worked all their life's and paid the full whack into the system, how do you suggest we afford the pensions of all these migrants when they reach that age? as I said if things were rosy in the garden then great but they're not.

 

And btw I only have to go to my smoke shack to know an open doors policy is in effect.

 

As for the crime angle it was only a few weeks back that a police chief in London said over 90% of shop lifting in London was now being carried out by organised Romanian crime gangs, how can that not be a burden on the police and prison system, these people didn't come here to work and pay taxes, they came here to steal and leech off the system, it's on a huge scale.

 

How does migration help me and my family, I don't mean to sound callous but I'm not seeing the benefits, I see negatives, plenty of them. Great for those coming here and getting employment and nice housing but is it sustainable as a Country in the long term.

[daytripping]

Any facts to back up your racist agenda DT?

 

How on earth is that racist?

[fatjim]

So you don't have any facts?

[daytripping]

Controlled migration, a job for that person to go to and private housing sorted then fill your boots, you're welcome here, I work with many migrants from Poland, they're great people.

[daytripping]

So you don't have any facts?

 

I have plenty of facts.

[fatjim]

any facts?

[fatjim]

I have plenty of facts.

 

OK then lets see them.

[daytripping]

The speed of sound is 343.2 metres per second.

[fatjim]

The speed of sound is 343.2 metres per second.

 

An interesting fact DT but doesn't back up your ill informed response to the article.

 

So I take it you have nothing but anecdotal evidence which is worthless.

[beer gut]

There is a doors open policy. the doors are open for all EU citizens and that is the problem. When Romania jumps in things will only get worse.

 

The schools in Aberdeen, well the ones i have mates and family working in anyway,are bursting at the seams with gangs of foreign (mainly polish) kids who can hardly speak any english. This has a detrimental effect on the local kids who's education suffers as a result. That may not be a financial cost but it is a cost cost never the less.

 

I don't mind people coming to work but their kids should have a good understanding of english before they are allowed anywhere near the schools.

 

As for housing, Nationality should come into it. If a single Scottish person is looking for a house they should get priority before any family of foreigners by right. Non nationals should be way down the list. if they want to live here they should rent privately or buy a property. They should get nothing. Christ my sister can't afford to buy a house despite working full time all her life but she has zero chance of getting a council flat because she isn't a junkie, or pregnant or a foreigner with a family.

 

I don't blame the people coming here though, I blame the stupid Labour government who allowed folk to live off benefits and created a generation of lazy scrounging bastards. The immigrants are just doing jobs our lot are too lazy to do.

[Tommy]

What do the organised foreign beggars operating in teams bring to this country

and specificallly the city of Aberdeen ?

I've nothing against any foreigner coming here to earn a living and paying their way

but to those who have arrived and are simply wanting to milk the benefits system - fuck them.

You should only get into the country to live if you have work organised.

[fatjim]

There is a doors open policy. the doors are open for all EU citizens and that is the problem. When Romania jumps in things will only get worse.

 

The schools in Aberdeen, well the ones i have mates and family working in anyway,are bursting at the seams with gangs of foreign (mainly polish) kids who can hardly speak any english. This has a detrimental effect on the local kids who's education suffers as a result. That may not be a financial cost but it is a cost cost never the less.

 

I don't mind people coming to work but their kids should have a good understanding of english before they are allowed anywhere near the schools.

 

As for housing, Nationality should come into it. If a single Scottish person is looking for a house they should get priority before any family of foreigners by right. Non nationals should be way down the list. if they want to live here they should rent privately or buy a property. They should get nothing. Christ my sister can't afford to buy a house despite working full time all her life but she has zero chance of getting a council flat because she isn't a junkie, or pregnant or a foreigner with a family.

 

I don't blame the people coming here though, I blame the stupid Labour government who allowed folk to live off benefits and created a generation of lazy scrounging bastards. The immigrants are just doing jobs our lot are too lazy to do.

 

So basically what you are saying is anyone with a poor grasp of English should be removed from the country.

 

Where would Bluto go?

[Ke1t]

I'd agree with the OP, based upon the fact that the West German economy was able to absorb, was it 25 million, East German immigrants, complete with utterly fucked East German economy, and has emerged as one of the world's stronger economies.

If a country is run properly, immigration will benefit that country.

Demonstrably.

[Sonoftherock]

So basically what you are saying is anyone with a poor grasp of English should be removed from the country.

 

Where would Bluto go?

 

 

He's already been sent to Holland!

[spamspamspam]

Spam,

 

My point still stands, a family of Polish people for example will jump ahead of indigenous people on the housing list, is that really fair because the family have more kids, what about the rights of someone who has paid into the system for years? I would have no hope of council housing even though I've paid into the system for nigh on 30 years and never claimed anything back.

 

I'm not interested in the politics of it re housing shortages I'm just stating that we don't have a surplus waiting to be filled, immigration doesn't help things no matter how it's dressed up, I'm sure even you would concede it adds a huge burden on to our councils.

 

I'm also not saying people shouldn't get free health care, I'm saying our Country is in no position to take on an extra burden, even before the huge Eastern European influx it was struggling, now it's on its knees. We can't build more hospitals because as a nation we're massively in debt, we can't afford it. How will extra immigrants coming here help this situation?

 

Ed Balls suggested last week that we can't afford the burden of paying the current pension at its already pathetic rate, he suggests cutting it to £5000 a year, this is for people who have worked all their life's and paid the full whack into the system, how do you suggest we afford the pensions of all these migrants when they reach that age? as I said if things were rosy in the garden then great but they're not.

 

And btw I only have to go to my smoke shack to know an open doors policy is in effect.

 

As for the crime angle it was only a few weeks back that a police chief in London said over 90% of shop lifting in London was now being carried out by organised Romanian crime gangs, how can that not be a burden on the police and prison system, these people didn't come here to work and pay taxes, they came here to steal and leech off the system, it's on a huge scale.

 

How does migration help me and my family, I don't mean to sound callous but I'm not seeing the benefits, I see negatives, plenty of them. Great for those coming here and getting employment and nice housing but is it sustainable as a Country in the long term.

 

No it doesnt because they dont. Getting a council house is the same for everyone, sure loads blame immigrants for them not getting a house but you can also bet your last buck that the same fuckers have £1000's in rent arrears and council tax arrears. The figures from ACC for people like that and the money it has cost the council is a lot higher than any cash spent on immigrants. If you are going to get a bee in your bonnet, get it about something actually worth bitching about. The Nigerians are here because we have an engineering shortage and Aberdeen needs engineers. The Polish are here because a lot of Aberdonians feel cleaning and working a the service industry is beneath them, if Aberdonians were prepared to do the jobs the Poles wouldnt be needed. If Aberdonians educated themselves in engineering instead of piss easy degrees that arent worth the fucking paper they are printed on then we wouldnt need the Nigerians, Libyans and Iranians that are all here now either.

 

You obviously are interested in the politics of the housing shortage, you're just not interested in dealing with the real reason for the shortfall in social housing so instead you blame a group of people that have had no say, influence or have any blame for it and not those actually responsible.

 

Who is going to keep the Aberdeen economy going if all these people you seem to think the door is open for are sent home at the end of their permits or are not allowed in to the country in the first place? It certainly isnt the lazy assed kids round here that all take fucking business studies, project management and administration degrees.

 

The migrants here help you and your family by keeping the industry in Aberdeen, paying their council tax and generally contributing to the local economy. They are here to work and by god do they work...

 

Pensions... I'd rather a Nigerian that has been earning £70K plus a year, paying taxes and contributing to society was given a state pension after 10, 20, 30 years of working here than some fucking mink thats done nowt but take smack round the Broadsword all their pathetic lives, wouldnt you? Ah thats right, no you wouldnt, you seem to have it in your head that all they do is come here and scrounge. That, by the by, is fucking impossible. Non EU citizens have minimum working requirements before getting any state assistance of any sort. EU citizens have to be working for a minimum of 1 year before they are entitled to anything at all.

 

Here's a simple suggestion for you, if you dont like it then why not move to France or Spain or Germany or Holland or... You too could then get state benefits and you'd get a shit load more that you'd ever get here. It works both ways, it always has. I can and will retire in Holland and I will get a state pension from them that will be around 4 times as much as here.

 

But back to your first sentence here, none of your points are valid because they are all based on made up shite spouted by right wing media and regurgitated by right wing morons that havent actually bothered to look into the facts behind the headlines.

[spamspamspam]

Sorry, missed your bit about crime...

 

I find your figure strange when only 14% of people in prison in England and Wales are none UK nationals.

[spamspamspam]

As for housing, Nationality should come into it. If a single Scottish person is looking for a house they should get priority before any family of foreigners by right. Non nationals should be way down the list. if they want to live here they should rent privately or buy a property. They should get nothing. Christ my sister can't afford to buy a house despite working full time all her life but she has zero chance of getting a council flat because she isn't a junkie, or pregnant or a foreigner with a family.

 

Going by this you think that a single Scottish person has more right to move into a house for a family than a family of 4 Polish people, right?

 

How does that help the housing shortage exactly? What would we gain by putting single people into 3 bedroom houses when families need them?

 

As for the private rent bit...

 

Fuck it, I'll let the council tell you how social housing works for immigrants

 

http://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/web/files/CouncilHousing/council_house_allocation_policy_oct2011.pdf

 

 

To be eligible for admission to the Council’s lists applicants must be

16 years of age or over. Sole or joint applicants who are subject to

immigration control in terms of section 118 of the Immigration and

Asylum Act 1999 are not eligible for admission to the Council waiting

lists. European Economic Area nationals are only eligible for

admission to the lists if they have the right to reside in the UK.

Admission onto the Council lists does not mean applicants have the right to be housed by the

Council.

 

So

 

Immigrants

 

Taking all our hooses

 

CUNTS EH!?!?!

 

Nae right eh!?!?!

[spamspamspam]

I'm actually fucking disgusted by the attitude of some here when it comes to this.

 

Worse than the fucking bigoted hun and tim cunts in weegieland.

 

Give yourselves a collective shak for fuck sake.

[spamspamspam]

What do the organised foreign beggars operating in teams bring to this country

and specificallly the city of Aberdeen ?

I've nothing against any foreigner coming here to earn a living and paying their way

but to those who have arrived and are simply wanting to milk the benefits system - fuck them.

You should only get into the country to live if you have work organised.

 

 

What do gypsies bring? Will we just chuck them out as well while we're cleaning up the country.

 

Might as well get rid of the Muslims and Jews inna like ken.

 

Fuck it, I da like cunts with green eyes, get them ti fuck inna

[Ke1t]

I'm actually fucking disgusted by the attitude of some here when it comes to this.

 

Worse than the fucking bigoted hun and tim cunts in weegieland.

 

Give yourselves a collective shak for fuck sake.

 

Ditto

[fatjim]

I'm actually fucking disgusted by the attitude of some here when it comes to this.

 

Worse than the fucking bigoted hun and tim cunts in weegieland.

 

Give yourselves a collective shak for fuck sake.

 

 

I was thinking the very same thing today. A lot of the opinions are very much in line with Huns. The very people that people like Dayts and bluto despise but they have so much more in common with them than they realise.

[fatjim]

 

He's already been sent to Holland!

 

 

Bloody emigrants.

[Ke1t]

I'm actually fucking disgusted by the attitude of some here when it comes to this.

 

Worse than the fucking bigoted hun and tim cunts in weegieland.

 

Give yourselves a collective shak for fuck sake.

 

This is the start of a scary, vicious path that we seem to see periodically.

 

Ignorant extremism, blaming minorities for all the ills of the country.

 

History is rife with genocides, collectivisation, murder, torture, purges and persecution based upon the belief that.. "All the shit that's wrong with this country is the fault of the Jews/gypsies/communists/intellectuals/Muslims/Christians"

 

Oddly enough, killing all the Jews/gypsies/communists/intellectuals/Muslims/Christians never seems to make shit better in that country.

 

Isn't that fucking astonishing?

[daytripping]

I'm actually fucking disgusted by the attitude of some here when it comes to this.

 

Worse than the fucking bigoted hun and tim cunts in weegieland.

 

Give yourselves a collective shak for fuck sake.

Typical left wing response to any attempt to debate the issue, that's why government Is scared to address the problems caused by immigration on the scale we've seen.

 

I'll respond in detail later when I'm on my keyboard, you're good at swerving valid points and going off in a tangent.

[Tommy]

What do gypsies bring? Will we just chuck them out as well while we're cleaning up the country. Might as well get rid of the Muslims and Jews inna like ken. Fuck it, I da like cunts with green eyes, get them ti fuck inna

Maybe read what I said again.

[AndrewW]

Get rid of almost all government spending and no one will be able to blame immigrants on anything. Private healthcare, private schools, private police force, no council houses, have a milita style army based on the swiss model, get rid of pensions etc etc. Probably keep the courts but that would be the only spending. No tax just a small percentage of VAT on every purchase. People would have full personal responsibility on their lives so would not be able to blame their problems on government, immigration or whatever.