Scottish Independence Referendum 2

[elephantstone78]

9 minutes ago, Redforever86 said:

FFS please pay attention to the words I write, wealth tax/tax on assets not an income tax. 
 

How do you do this in a globalised world where people can move country easily to avoid tax? 
 

Tax assets based here, 2nd homes, land/estates. Don’t allow property or land to be placed in trusts. Charge dividend tax on UK companies regardless where you are based. Charge dividend tax on stocks based outwith the UK for UK residents. Charge higher rates of VAT on companies with their HQ based outwith the UK so they can’t avoid corporation tax. 
 

This is a tax on those with assets/wealth of over say 5 or 10 million. They are the ones holding the country back while the 99% get squeezed to fuck and have no spending money to improve the economy. 

I largely agree but just point out income in trusts already is taxed as are capital gains and trust rates are higher than personal (well for most people). Income is taxed at 45% and gains at the higher rate of CGT. There can also be an immediate charge if you put more than £325k into the trust - depending on type of trust. 

Riveting stuff eh ! 
 

 

 

[Redforever86]

9 minutes ago, elephantstone78 said:

I largely agree but just point out income in trusts already is taxed as are capital gains and trust rates are higher than personal (well for most people). Income is taxed at 45% and gains at the higher rate of CGT. There can also be an immediate charge if you put more than £325k into the trust - depending on type of trust. 

Riveting stuff eh ! 
 

 

 

Aye but you can put assets in a trust and leave them not earning fuck all and pay zero tax, after set up. Correct me if I'm wrong not an accountant. 

[Schapenneuker]

1 hour ago, For Fecks Sake said:

We raise enough tax, it's how it's spent. Throwing more billions at a dysfunctional NHS without having the balls to make fundamental changes is bonkers.

This is true. 

Higher tax countries, such as The Netherlands and in Scandinavia, have generally happier citizens because money tends to filter through to support the poorest in society and is used to visibly boost public services. People don't mind paying more in tax when they can see that there's something at the other end. 

This is where the UK falls (and has always fallen) down. Higher taxes and diminishing public services are a poisonous combination.

On the other hand, we're not quite as bad yet as the good old USA, where the poorest in society are about to be completely abandoned  on the back of trillions of dollars of tax cuts for the richest 2% in American society. 

But where the US leads, there are many in the UK who would slaveishly follow. Farage and Badenoch, for 2. 

 

[For Fecks Sake]

1 hour ago, Redforever86 said:

FFS please pay attention to the words I write, wealth tax/tax on assets not an income tax. 
 

How do you do this in a globalised world where people can move country easily to avoid tax? 
 

Tax assets based here, 2nd homes, land/estates. Don’t allow property or land to be placed in trusts. Charge dividend tax on UK companies regardless where you are based. Charge dividend tax on stocks based outwith the UK for UK residents. Charge higher rates of VAT on companies with their HQ based outwith the UK so they can’t avoid corporation tax. 
 

This is a tax on those with assets/wealth of over say 5 or 10 million. They are the ones holding the country back while the 99% get squeezed to fuck and have no spending money to improve the economy. 

All good ideas, however the reality is that corporations, like Apple, will move their head offices \ registered offices to a country which offers more favorable tax regimes like Ireland.

As for those with assets or wealth over 5 or 10 million, "holding the country back", honestly I don't see it. The people I know who have either built or sold companies on the back of Oil & Gas with wealth in that range have done it by paying their way, generating jobs, paying bonuses and paying the correct levels of corporation tax along the way.

Truth is we need people to take chances, build companies and make money to stimulate the economy, create jobs, pay tax, spend money living the style of life etc. Making it unattractive will see people look to move to more favorable countries who in turn will benefit. Look at the Oil & Gas tax, how many companies are actively looking to exit the north sea and focus on countries with lower tax, and lower cost per barrel (that's a different discussion!).

Fuck me, it's a Friday night, let's agree to disagree and get pissed!

[cheesepipes]

How's all the Blood Pressures in here?

[Redforever86]

42 minutes ago, For Fecks Sake said:

All good ideas, however the reality is that corporations, like Apple, will move their head offices \ registered offices to a country which offers more favorable tax regimes like Ireland.

As for those with assets or wealth over 5 or 10 million, "holding the country back", honestly I don't see it. The people I know who have either built or sold companies on the back of Oil & Gas with wealth in that range have done it by paying their way, generating jobs, paying bonuses and paying the correct levels of corporation tax along the way.

Truth is we need people to take chances, build companies and make money to stimulate the economy, create jobs, pay tax, spend money living the style of life etc. Making it unattractive will see people look to move to more favorable countries who in turn will benefit. Look at the Oil & Gas tax, how many companies are actively looking to exit the north sea and focus on countries with lower tax, and lower cost per barrel (that's a different discussion!).

Fuck me, it's a Friday night, let's agree to disagree and get pissed!

Fucking hell you are more obtuse than bluto is obese. 

1. Apple pays fuck all tax in the UK pretty much, (https://www.taxwatchuk.org/seven-large-tech-groups-estimated-to-have-dodged-2bn-in-uk-tax-in-2021/) cant' win against them with corp tax with their work arounds so just say, forget about corporation tax but you are paying 30% VAT on all sales. 

2. They can pay themselves profits via income tax or dividends which I'm not suggesting we increase the tax on. They can also sell the company and only pay 10% tax up to 2 million lifetime allowance through business asset disposal relief (entrepreneurs relief). Again which I'm not saying should be increased. 

You firstly don't know what you are talking about and secondly are talking about areas we aren't discussing. I'm not sure if you do this to try and seem intelligent or to try and back an argument nobody is talking about. 

We aren't disagreeing because you don't understand. 

4th Guiness coming up for me enjoy your night. 

[maryhilldon]

9 minutes ago, Redforever86 said:

Fucking hell you are more obtuse than bluto is obese. 

1. Apple pays fuck all tax in the UK pretty much, (https://www.taxwatchuk.org/seven-large-tech-groups-estimated-to-have-dodged-2bn-in-uk-tax-in-2021/) cant' win against them with corp tax with their work arounds so just say, forget about corporation tax but you are paying 30% VAT on all sales. 

2. They can pay themselves profits via income tax or dividends which I'm not suggesting we increase the tax on. They can also sell the company and only pay 10% tax up to 2 million lifetime allowance through business asset disposal relief (entrepreneurs relief). Again which I'm not saying should be increased. 

You firstly don't know what you are talking about and secondly are talking about areas we aren't discussing. I'm not sure if you do this to try and seem intelligent or to try and back an argument nobody is talking about. 

We aren't disagreeing because you don't understand. 

4th Guiness coming up for me enjoy your night. 

^ Shots fired. You gonna take that FFS?

[For Fecks Sake]

1 hour ago, Redforever86 said:

Fucking hell you are more obtuse than bluto is obese. 

1. Apple pays fuck all tax in the UK pretty much, (https://www.taxwatchuk.org/seven-large-tech-groups-estimated-to-have-dodged-2bn-in-uk-tax-in-2021/) cant' win against them with corp tax with their work arounds so just say, forget about corporation tax but you are paying 30% VAT on all sales. 

2. They can pay themselves profits via income tax or dividends which I'm not suggesting we increase the tax on. They can also sell the company and only pay 10% tax up to 2 million lifetime allowance through business asset disposal relief (entrepreneurs relief). Again which I'm not saying should be increased. 

You firstly don't know what you are talking about and secondly are talking about areas we aren't discussing. I'm not sure if you do this to try and seem intelligent or to try and back an argument nobody is talking about. 

We aren't disagreeing because you don't understand. 

4th Guiness coming up for me enjoy your night. 

1) Good luck getting the expexted VAT back from a company like Apple regardless of the rate.

2) Business asset disposal relief (entrepreneurs relief) lifetime allowance is £1 million, not £2 million.

Apparently I DO know more than you shitty sheets boy (one for the oldies).

[Redforever86]

51 minutes ago, For Fecks Sake said:

1) Good luck getting the expexted VAT back from a company like Apple regardless of the rate.

2) Business asset disposal relief (entrepreneurs relief) lifetime allowance is £1 million, not £2 million.

Apparently I DO know more than you shitty sheets boy (one for the oldies).

1. It wouldn't be expected it would be a fact. And that's what HMRC is for. 

2. My apologies, I'll google it like you next time. 

How's the OVD? 

[For Fecks Sake]

9 hours ago, Redforever86 said:

1. It wouldn't be expected it would be a fact. And that's what HMRC is for. 

2. My apologies, I'll google it like you next time. 

How's the OVD? 

OVD was excellent thanks 👍

[The Gee Man]

Crack in the new ferry! Got to feel that's a Omen on the week Sturgeon confirmed she's offski 

[Dons79]

3 minutes ago, The Gee Man said:

Crack in the new ferry! Got to feel that's a Omen on the week Sturgeon confirmed she's offski 

Fucks sake they normally open up with champagne or cocktails, but crack, they’re really going for it this year, do you know if you need to supply your own pipe?.

 

[elephantstone78]

12 hours ago, Redforever86 said:

1. It wouldn't be expected it would be a fact. And that's what HMRC is for. 

2. My apologies, I'll google it like you next time. 

How's the OVD? 

Re pt 2 labour are raising this rate to 14% wef april 2025 and 18% from April next year. They’re certainly trying to walk that tightrope of getting in more tax from a variety of different methods, borrowing more and targeting greater growth. 
Not an easy task and not one I’d fancy. 

[The Gee Man]

46 minutes ago, Dons79 said:

Fucks sake they normally open up with champagne or cocktails, but crack, they’re really going for it this year, do you know if you need to supply your own pipe?.

 

Own oar required 

[Parklife]

41 minutes ago, The Gee Man said:

Own oar required 

You missed the exclamation marks!!!!

[Edwin Starr]

Oh.

 

[Edwin Starr]

The problem with Alba is they advocate the requirement for Englands permission aka “ go into negotiations”.  Sturgeon and gradualist SNP cabal also advocate English permission. England will simply ignore you. There is no route to independence through the union. It’s designed to obstruct and prevent Scotlands independence.
Both Alba and SNP show no word on using the the Scottish Parliament to restore legislative competence? 
Move the situation into international public law away from UK domestic law where Westminster has the advantage. Legislative competence is the key to Scotlands independence. It is a fact that constitutional matters are reserved to Westminster (thanks Nicola) so first we have to re-acquire legislative competence. We then use it to legislate for an independence referendum. Hopefully win it!
England can do nothing to stop us because the referendum is now legal. 
All England can do is attempt to prove Scotland is the not a real country and do not qualify for protection under the UN Charter and that Scots do not have the right to self determination. Good luck with that one. Personally, I don’t believe they would bother. It would be past the point of no return. I suspect it would be in both Scotland and Englands benefit to negotiate rather than have to use set out rules from the Vienna Convention. 
If we failed to win the referendum Scotland would have at least secured permanent control over its constitution. 
I just wish our politicians would be honest about what needs to be done instead of hollow promises about mystical negotiation’s with a neighbour that does not need to participate. All they are doing is facilitating devolution where they benefit from the large devolved pay packets. Our pointless politicians show zero political will to defy England and seem happy to comply.
Scotlands independence movement needs to wake up and stop enabling devolution.

[King Street Loon]

1 hour ago, Edwin Starr said:

The problem with Alba is they advocate the requirement for Englands permission aka “ go into negotiations”.  Sturgeon and gradualist SNP cabal also advocate English permission. England will simply ignore you. There is no route to independence through the union. It’s designed to obstruct and prevent Scotlands independence.
Both Alba and SNP show no word on using the the Scottish Parliament to restore legislative competence? 
Move the situation into international public law away from UK domestic law where Westminster has the advantage. Legislative competence is the key to Scotlands independence. It is a fact that constitutional matters are reserved to Westminster (thanks Nicola) so first we have to re-acquire legislative competence. We then use it to legislate for an independence referendum. Hopefully win it!
England can do nothing to stop us because the referendum is now legal. 
All England can do is attempt to prove Scotland is the not a real country and do not qualify for protection under the UN Charter and that Scots do not have the right to self determination. Good luck with that one. Personally, I don’t believe they would bother. It would be past the point of no return. I suspect it would be in both Scotland and Englands benefit to negotiate rather than have to use set out rules from the Vienna Convention. 
If we failed to win the referendum Scotland would have at least secured permanent control over its constitution. 
I just wish our politicians would be honest about what needs to be done instead of hollow promises about mystical negotiation’s with a neighbour that does not need to participate. All they are doing is facilitating devolution where they benefit from the large devolved pay packets. Our pointless politicians show zero political will to defy England and seem happy to comply.
Scotlands independence movement needs to wake up and stop enabling devolution.

NRT

[maryhilldon]

2 hours ago, Edwin Starr said:

The problem with Alba is they advocate the requirement for Englands permission aka “ go into negotiations”.  Sturgeon and gradualist SNP cabal also advocate English permission. England will simply ignore you. There is no route to independence through the union. It’s designed to obstruct and prevent Scotlands independence.
Both Alba and SNP show no word on using the the Scottish Parliament to restore legislative competence? 
Move the situation into international public law away from UK domestic law where Westminster has the advantage. Legislative competence is the key to Scotlands independence. It is a fact that constitutional matters are reserved to Westminster (thanks Nicola) so first we have to re-acquire legislative competence. We then use it to legislate for an independence referendum. Hopefully win it!
England can do nothing to stop us because the referendum is now legal. 
All England can do is attempt to prove Scotland is the not a real country and do not qualify for protection under the UN Charter and that Scots do not have the right to self determination. Good luck with that one. Personally, I don’t believe they would bother. It would be past the point of no return. I suspect it would be in both Scotland and Englands benefit to negotiate rather than have to use set out rules from the Vienna Convention. 
If we failed to win the referendum Scotland would have at least secured permanent control over its constitution. 
I just wish our politicians would be honest about what needs to be done instead of hollow promises about mystical negotiation’s with a neighbour that does not need to participate. All they are doing is facilitating devolution where they benefit from the large devolved pay packets. Our pointless politicians show zero political will to defy England and seem happy to comply.
Scotlands independence movement needs to wake up and stop enabling devolution.

NRT

[For Fecks Sake]

6 hours ago, Edwin Starr said:

The problem with Alba is they advocate the requirement for Englands permission aka “ go into negotiations”.  Sturgeon and gradualist SNP cabal also advocate English permission. England will simply ignore you. There is no route to independence through the union. It’s designed to obstruct and prevent Scotlands independence.
Both Alba and SNP show no word on using the the Scottish Parliament to restore legislative competence? 
Move the situation into international public law away from UK domestic law where Westminster has the advantage. Legislative competence is the key to Scotlands independence. It is a fact that constitutional matters are reserved to Westminster (thanks Nicola) so first we have to re-acquire legislative competence. We then use it to legislate for an independence referendum. Hopefully win it!
England can do nothing to stop us because the referendum is now legal. 
All England can do is attempt to prove Scotland is the not a real country and do not qualify for protection under the UN Charter and that Scots do not have the right to self determination. Good luck with that one. Personally, I don’t believe they would bother. It would be past the point of no return. I suspect it would be in both Scotland and Englands benefit to negotiate rather than have to use set out rules from the Vienna Convention. 
If we failed to win the referendum Scotland would have at least secured permanent control over its constitution. 
I just wish our politicians would be honest about what needs to be done instead of hollow promises about mystical negotiation’s with a neighbour that does not need to participate. All they are doing is facilitating devolution where they benefit from the large devolved pay packets. Our pointless politicians show zero political will to defy England and seem happy to comply.
Scotlands independence movement needs to wake up and stop enabling devolution.

^ loves a copy and paste.

[Redforever86]

5 minutes ago, For Fecks Sake said:

^ loves a copy and paste.

Say that to his face you employee. 

[Edwin Starr]

4 hours ago, For Fecks Sake said:

^ loves a copy and paste.

Yes it is but an enjoyable read all the same.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

On 3/15/2025 at 6:23 PM, Edwin Starr said:

The problem with Alba is they advocate the requirement for Englands permission aka “ go into negotiations”.  Sturgeon and gradualist SNP cabal also advocate English permission. England will simply ignore you. There is no route to independence through the union. It’s designed to obstruct and prevent Scotlands independence.
Both Alba and SNP show no word on using the the Scottish Parliament to restore legislative competence? 
Move the situation into international public law away from UK domestic law where Westminster has the advantage. Legislative competence is the key to Scotlands independence. It is a fact that constitutional matters are reserved to Westminster (thanks Nicola) so first we have to re-acquire legislative competence. We then use it to legislate for an independence referendum. Hopefully win it!
England can do nothing to stop us because the referendum is now legal. 
All England can do is attempt to prove Scotland is the not a real country and do not qualify for protection under the UN Charter and that Scots do not have the right to self determination. Good luck with that one. Personally, I don’t believe they would bother. It would be past the point of no return. I suspect it would be in both Scotland and Englands benefit to negotiate rather than have to use set out rules from the Vienna Convention. 
If we failed to win the referendum Scotland would have at least secured permanent control over its constitution. 
I just wish our politicians would be honest about what needs to be done instead of hollow promises about mystical negotiation’s with a neighbour that does not need to participate. All they are doing is facilitating devolution where they benefit from the large devolved pay packets. Our pointless politicians show zero political will to defy England and seem happy to comply.
Scotlands independence movement needs to wake up and stop enabling devolution.

Neither england or scotland are countries in the sense you mean, both are regions of a country - the UK. 

The UK is a single nation, made up of 4 former nations, its not a union of nations.  "The Union" refers to the previous act of joining these former nations together as one, not an ongoing political reality like the European union.

The independence movement has never, (nor will ever), engaged with "england" on any matter - but rather the UK government.  England is not a political entity, it doesn't even have a devolved parliament like Scotland does, its ruled directly by the UK government, like Scotland used to be.

If I was a separatist, I would consider aligning nationalist views / understanding with reality as a good first step.

As a unionist, I am reassured by how nationalists do not even understand the political reality which they seek to change.

Scotland will never be an independent nation again, it is too addicted to overspending, public sector employment and the welfare state and has absolutely no appetite whatsoever to change this.  (in addition to there being no actual point to independence).

Indeed, even under the nationalists, these things just keep growing.  20 years of nationalist governance have moved scotland ever further away from independence, not just through incompetence, but also in terms of further entrenching these dependencies. 

A realistic nationalist government would have immediately sought to reduce these dependencies, decades ago, and let the UK bear some of both the pain it would cause, and the blame for it. 

  

 

[For Fecks Sake]

Given the debacle with the current Ferries contract I can understand this decision from a business perspective, however giving the contract to a Polish firm will just result in the loss of jobs (and supply chain) and shipbuilding almost being nonexistent on the Clyde?

Ferguson shipyard misses out on new CalMac ferry order - BBC News

[For Fecks Sake]

22 minutes ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

Neither england or scotland are countries in the sense you mean, both are regions of a country - the UK. 

The UK is a single nation, made up of 4 former nations, its not a union of nations.  "The Union" refers to the previous act of joining these former nations together as one, not an ongoing political reality like the European union.

The independence movement has never, (nor will ever), engaged with "england" on any matter - but rather the UK government.  England is not a political entity, it doesn't even have a devolved parliament like Scotland does, its ruled directly by the UK government, like Scotland used to be.

If I was a separatist, I would consider aligning nationalist views / understanding with reality as a good first step.

As a unionist, I am reassured by how nationalists do not even understand the political reality which they seek to change.

Scotland will never be an independent nation again, it is too addicted to overspending, public sector employment and the welfare state and has absolutely no appetite whatsoever to change this.  (in addition to there being no actual point to independence).

Indeed, even under the nationalists, these things just keep growing.  20 years of nationalist governance have moved scotland ever further away from independence, not just through incompetence, but also in terms of further entrenching these dependencies. 

A realistic nationalist government would have immediately sought to reduce these dependencies, decades ago, and let the UK bear some of both the pain it would cause, and the blame for it. 

  

 

Don't agree with the first statement, but agree that difficult financial decisions have to be addressed.

[Edwin Starr]

1 hour ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

Neither england or scotland are countries in the sense you mean, both are regions of a country - the UK. 

The UK is a single nation, made up of 4 former nations, its not a union of nations.  "The Union" refers to the previous act of joining these former nations together as one, not an ongoing political reality like the European union.

The independence movement has never, (nor will ever), engaged with "england" on any matter - but rather the UK government.  England is not a political entity, it doesn't even have a devolved parliament like Scotland does, its ruled directly by the UK government, like Scotland used to be.

If I was a separatist, I would consider aligning nationalist views / understanding with reality as a good first step.

As a unionist, I am reassured by how nationalists do not even understand the political reality which they seek to change.

Scotland will never be an independent nation again, it is too addicted to overspending, public sector employment and the welfare state and has absolutely no appetite whatsoever to change this.  (in addition to there being no actual point to independence).

Indeed, even under the nationalists, these things just keep growing.  20 years of nationalist governance have moved scotland ever further away from independence, not just through incompetence, but also in terms of further entrenching these dependencies. 

A realistic nationalist government would have immediately sought to reduce these dependencies, decades ago, and let the UK bear some of both the pain it would cause, and the blame for it. 

  

 

And you believe that. 

 

For the record Scotland is a country.

 

I think the rest of it is hope in your part.

[CCB III]

2 hours ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

Neither england or scotland are countries in the sense you mean, both are regions of a country - the UK. 

The UK is a single nation, made up of 4 former nations, its not a union of nations.  "The Union" refers to the previous act of joining these former nations together as one, not an ongoing political reality like the European union.

The independence movement has never, (nor will ever), engaged with "england" on any matter - but rather the UK government.  England is not a political entity, it doesn't even have a devolved parliament like Scotland does, its ruled directly by the UK government, like Scotland used to be.

If I was a separatist, I would consider aligning nationalist views / understanding with reality as a good first step.

As a unionist, I am reassured by how nationalists do not even understand the political reality which they seek to change.

Scotland will never be an independent nation again, it is too addicted to overspending, public sector employment and the welfare state and has absolutely no appetite whatsoever to change this.  (in addition to there being no actual point to independence).

Indeed, even under the nationalists, these things just keep growing.  20 years of nationalist governance have moved scotland ever further away from independence, not just through incompetence, but also in terms of further entrenching these dependencies. 

A realistic nationalist government would have immediately sought to reduce these dependencies, decades ago, and let the UK bear some of both the pain it would cause, and the blame for it. 

  

 

Yep. Completely retarded and not in touch with reality in a meaningful sense. 
 

What an idiot. 
 

😂😂😂😂

[Edwin Starr]

37 minutes ago, CCB III said:

Yep. Completely retarded and not in touch with reality in a meaningful sense. 
 

What an idiot. 
 

😂😂😂😂

Not his best post even I know that .

[maryhilldon]

14 minutes ago, Edwin Starr said:

Not his best post even I know that .

Wait, you actually read it!?

[Edwin Starr]

56 minutes ago, maryhilldon said:

Wait, you actually read it!?

YES .