League Change Must Happen

[Broken_Glass]

In the cold light of day after that embarrassing result last night we must look at change.

The whole of Scottish Football is set up to accommodate the Bigot Brothers with Chairmen/persons and fans too scared to challenge and upset the SFA to force change and progression. This current playing everyone four times is shit and does nothing to allow clubs to develop talent. We're as guilty as most bringing in loans from England at the expense of developing and blooding our own players. We have brought in some utter dross over the last few years who certainly didn't improve us but instead put a hurdle in the way of our own emerging talent.

Increasing teams to 16/18 and play twice - home & away. That should allow managers to blood and develop more of the younger players in the "easier" games. Development opportunities will surely increase across the board. I'd go further and bring back a home grown talent rule. 

Time for clubs to stand up and force change. 

[strachanmcgheegoal]

Alternatively both cheeks getting into CL makes them richer ergo better and everything else will follow and we just have to keep going and trust them.

Is what the blazers will (do) say.

[Broken_Glass]

1 hour ago, strachanmcgheegoal said:

Alternatively both cheeks getting into CL makes them richer ergo better and everything else will follow and we just have to keep going and trust them.

Is what the blazers will (do) say.

Widen the gap I think not. When you see how shit Ralston was last night it shows how far off it they are too. 

[RabidGiraffe]

The two big changes required are the size of the league and the distribution of monies.  For size, 18 teams and play each other twice.  The big ugly fuckers make loads of money from playing in Europe, gate receipts, and somehow managing to sell players for overinflated fees.  They don't need the relatively small amounts of prize money available for league placings, the lion's share of which goes to the top 2.  If that was more evenly distributed through the leagues then full time football and a better quality of player and running youth academies would be more viable for teams in the lower SPL, Championship, and below.

2 hours ago, Broken_Glass said:

Widen the gap I think not. When you see how shit Ralston was last night it shows how far off it they are too. 

I don't understand why any young Sottish player with ambition would want to play for either of the ugly bastards.  Except for top players like MacGregor they are never going to make their potential because they are primarily there for the homegrown quotas in Europe.  These teams would much rather spunk £3-4m on a player from England or elsewhere than spend the time and money developing Scottish talent.  Guys like Ralston, Welsh, and McCrorie are good examples of players who should have moved years ago to get first team football to improve their skills and experience and there chances of playing (well) for Scotland but instead warm the bench in Glasgow.  It's no surprise that most of the current Scotland squad have never played for the cunts at any level from youth to pro.  They stifle talent.  

[englishred]

8 hours ago, RabidGiraffe said:

The two big changes required are the size of the league and the distribution of monies.  For size, 18 teams and play each other twice.  The big ugly fuckers make loads of money from playing in Europe, gate receipts, and somehow managing to sell players for overinflated fees.  They don't need the relatively small amounts of prize money available for league placings, the lion's share of which goes to the top 2.  If that was more evenly distributed through the leagues then full time football and a better quality of player and running youth academies would be more viable for teams in the lower SPL, Championship, and below.

I don't understand why any young Sottish player with ambition would want to play for either of the ugly bastards.  Except for top players like MacGregor they are never going to make their potential because they are primarily there for the homegrown quotas in Europe.  These teams would much rather spunk £3-4m on a player from England or elsewhere than spend the time and money developing Scottish talent.  Guys like Ralston, Welsh, and McCrorie are good examples of players who should have moved years ago to get first team football to improve their skills and experience and there chances of playing (well) for Scotland but instead warm the bench in Glasgow.  It's no surprise that most of the current Scotland squad have never played for the cunts at any level from youth to pro.  They stifle talent.  

Agree with most of that.  A league of 18 team would also allow for a decent break in winter and keep players fresher in what is becoming a very busy schedule.  Lets not beat around the bush OF games are a big selling point for the league but surely they and the Edinburgh derby plus dons v rangers would mean more and gain more interest if there are just two games a season.  Playing each other too much isn't healthy.  

And as you mention having a stronger championship or lower league system would really help raise standards at the top too. But all of this can only happen if everyone wants to improve,  the big two have little interest in improving the league all they care about is pumping teams with a tenth of the budget and that can be easily seen in the media with constant creaming over bang average players claiming they are worth £20 million plus.  

personally i'd like a TV deal that is equal and by that i mean every team must be shown the same amount of times over the league season.  

Scott Brown is a good example of a player with little ambition spent the entire top years of his career at Celtic hoovering up trophies and walking around on a saturday against inferior players,

[Jocky Balboa]

12 hours ago, Broken_Glass said:

In the cold light of day after that embarrassing result last night we must look at change.

The whole of Scottish Football is set up to accommodate the Bigot Brothers with Chairmen/persons and fans too scared to challenge and upset the SFA to force change and progression. This current playing everyone four times is shit and does nothing to allow clubs to develop talent. We're as guilty as most bringing in loans from England at the expense of developing and blooding our own players. We have brought in some utter dross over the last few years who certainly didn't improve us but instead put a hurdle in the way of our own emerging talent.

Increasing teams to 16/18 and play twice - home & away. That should allow managers to blood and develop more of the younger players in the "easier" games. Development opportunities will surely increase across the board. I'd go further and bring back a home grown talent rule. 

Time for clubs to stand up and force change. 

Good post. We've been in decline since the likes of Ernie Walker and his dinosaur cronies were running the show. They'll still peddle the same tripe about us being a small nation, but Croatia has a population of less than 5m and look at them. Likewise Denmark (5.5m) and Portugal (9m) have all continually punched above their weight due to forward thinking and a well run set-up. Hell, even Greece (10m) and Bulgaria (8m) had their day in the sun.

In addition to your suggestions, I'd bring back the reserve league. To fuck with multiple loans, where we develop other people's players. Reserve league allowed us to blood youngsters and aid players returning from injury, as well as game time for fringe players.

[yaujta]

The pushback will be the fact they want 4 old firm games per season easy way to still give them a new bragging rights cup with only the 2 of them playing they get to play home and away they can sell the rights to who ever they want and they get to  still play same no of games. 

[CCB III]

20 hours ago, Broken_Glass said:

In the cold light of day after that embarrassing result last night we must look at change.

The whole of Scottish Football is set up to accommodate the Bigot Brothers with Chairmen/persons and fans too scared to challenge and upset the SFA to force change and progression. This current playing everyone four times is shit and does nothing to allow clubs to develop talent. We're as guilty as most bringing in loans from England at the expense of developing and blooding our own players. We have brought in some utter dross over the last few years who certainly didn't improve us but instead put a hurdle in the way of our own emerging talent.

Increasing teams to 16/18 and play twice - home & away. That should allow managers to blood and develop more of the younger players in the "easier" games. Development opportunities will surely increase across the board. I'd go further and bring back a home grown talent rule. 

Time for clubs to stand up and force change. 

You can make this case if you like, but a nation of 5,000,000 getting humped by one of the titans of world football is not the basis for it. 
 

It was bad the other night, but I think the hysteria is misplaced. 
 

If the Swiss trounce us and we're needing a miracle come Hungary I'll get on board with it. Abdy needs a breather. 
 

I've said since the groups were announced that we get out with 4 points. 

[The Boofon]

3 minutes ago, CCB III said:

You can make this case if you like, but a nation of 5,000,000 getting humped by one of the titans of world football is not the basis for it. 
 

It was bad the other night, but I think the hysteria is misplaced. 
 

If the Swiss trounce us and we're needing a miracle come Hungary I'll get on board with it. Abdy needs a breather. 
 

I've said since the groups were announced that we get out with 4 points. 

Very likely but not guaranteed as Steve Clarke would have you believe.

[sooth_stander]

Can I also throw into the mix, the advent of summer fitba? Start the season in March, end in Nov, train and play right through the summer?

If you were starting football from scratch, is that not what you would advocate?

[CCB III]

4 minutes ago, The Boofon said:

Very likely but not guaranteed as Steve Clarke would have you believe.

After a bad loss all words are used as ammunition against them. 
 

A positive result and everything changes, fancy a reaction.

[The Boofon]

9 minutes ago, CCB III said:

After a bad loss all words are used as ammunition against them. 
 

A positive result and everything changes, fancy a reaction.

He said it before the tournament started.

[ericblack4boss]

Hold me back!!!

39 years since any club outwith  those two won the league. 

In that 10 year spell from 1980- 89

Dundee utd, Celtic. rangers all won title too.

Both domestic Cups had multiple winners 

Aberdeen, Dundee utd were European  competition  winners or finalists,  hearts got to last 8 of uefa Cup. 

The above feats were mainly based on home grown Scottish  internationalists.

And those days will never be repeated. Doncaster  will say that per head of capita scotland  has the best attended games in Europe and that is because  Scottish  football  fans, you and me are continuing to go, and that is exactly  the argument  that Doncaster  and his shithouse cohorts use to justify  thier actions.

Remember  the SPFL is the clubs , it's a members league,  which is why it's so poorly run,

So you all know  my view. 

Change won't come from the clubs , or the SFA., it can only come from fans or broadcasters, the two biggest contributors of money.

While fans still go and still pay and still buy subscriptions  then the league can say that they are doing everything  right.

The tartan army don't help, travelling  in thier thousands,  accepting  the beatings,  building  up thier expectations only to be crushed, but don't worry  they will be back for the  next campaign. 

So that's where  the problem  lies, with the fans, 

So it's up to us, We have the game we deserve 

[G man]

3 minutes ago, ericblack4boss said:

Hold me back!!!

39 years since any club outwith  those two won the league. 

In that 10 year spell from 1980- 89

Dundee utd, Celtic. rangers all won title too.

Both domestic Cups had multiple winners 

Aberdeen, Dundee utd were European  competition  winners or finalists,  hearts got to last 8 of uefa Cup. 

The above feats were mainly based on home grown Scottish  internationalists.

And those days will never be repeated. Doncaster  will say that per head of capita scotland  has the best attended games in Europe and that is because  Scottish  football  fans, you and me are continuing to go, and that is exactly  the argument  that Doncaster  and his shithouse cohorts use to justify  thier actions.

Remember  the SPFL is the clubs , it's a members league,  which is why it's so poorly run,

So you all know  my view. 

Change won't come from the clubs , or the SFA., it can only come from fans or broadcasters, the two biggest contributors of money.

While fans still go and still pay and still buy subscriptions  then the league can say that they are doing everything  right.

The tartan army don't help, travelling  in thier thousands,  accepting  the beatings,  building  up thier expectations only to be crushed, but don't worry  they will be back for the  next campaign. 

So that's where  the problem  lies, with the fans, 

So it's up to us, We have the game we deserve 

Sadly the top teams do not want a change, including Aberdeen. They want the extra funds from the extra games  with the Glasgow two. Rather than the daft top tier 11-1 voting rules ,all teams in the senior divisions should have a vote considering any league change impacts them all. Considering our standard of football in our top division has continued to decline for many years and the powers that be make no attempt to change and improve our structure , the SFA/SPFL have no interest in improving our game. 

[CCB III]

1 hour ago, The Boofon said:

He said it before the tournament started.

And he's right. 
 

It'll happen.

[ericblack4boss]

I should  have added that the 3 world cups in that period  82, 86 and 90 we sorely underachieved with players who had  won European cups and multiple league  titles, and we had the poor international  results too

[Johnnyred1]

A compromise of sorts for an 18 team league would be, after the 34 games, only the top 6 play each other again. This would allow at least 3 Glasgow Darbies. A total of 39 games. As for the rest, tough, but they are only 4 short of current status quo and that would be down to their failure. Prize money could be better distributed to compensate.

[sooth_stander]

Definitely agree that there either needs to be a limit on the qty of loan players coming in from outwith Scotland, or a complete stop to it.

Additionally, there needs to be rules introduced that means every starting lineup has a certain percentage of home grown players in it. Not on the bench, in the starting team 

[redone]

I’m all for changing the league set up so as to go back to teams just playing each other twice.

But that in itself isn’t going to make it more likely to break the arse cheeks complete dominance. 

Nor will it have any bearing on the performance of the national team.
 

 

[slippers]

19 hours ago, RabidGiraffe said:

The two big changes required are the size of the league and the distribution of monies.  For size, 18 teams and play each other twice.  The big ugly fuckers make loads of money from playing in Europe, gate receipts, and somehow managing to sell players for overinflated fees.  They don't need the relatively small amounts of prize money available for league placings, the lion's share of which goes to the top 2.  If that was more evenly distributed through the leagues then full time football and a better quality of player and running youth academies would be more viable for teams in the lower SPL, Championship, and below.

I don't understand why any young Sottish player with ambition would want to play for either of the ugly bastards.  Except for top players like MacGregor they are never going to make their potential because they are primarily there for the homegrown quotas in Europe.  These teams would much rather spunk £3-4m on a player from England or elsewhere than spend the time and money developing Scottish talent.  Guys like Ralston, Welsh, and McCrorie are good examples of players who should have moved years ago to get first team football to improve their skills and experience and there chances of playing (well) for Scotland but instead warm the bench in Glasgow.  It's no surprise that most of the current Scotland squad have never played for the cunts at any level from youth to pro.  They stifle talent.  

Their is fuck all money to distribute. An extra 100k a year or something isn’t going to change much. 

[Jocky Balboa]

1 hour ago, G man said:

Sadly the top teams do not want a change, including Aberdeen. They want the extra funds from the extra games  with the Glasgow two. Rather than the daft top tier 11-1 voting rules ,all teams in the senior divisions should have a vote considering any league change impacts them all. Considering our standard of football in our top division has continued to decline for many years and the powers that be make no attempt to change and improve our structure , the SFA/SPFL have no interest in improving our game. 

It's true that the dinosaurs running the Sevconian Freemasons Association and the individual clubs are equally guilty of holding us back. The voting structure should be around a 2/3 majority (i.e. 8-4 in the current 12 team league, or 12-6 in an 18 team set-up) to give a fair majority, while not eternally pandering to the Bigot Brothers. 

40 minutes ago, ericblack4boss said:

I should  have added that the 3 world cups in that period  82, 86 and 90 we sorely underachieved with players who had  won European cups and multiple league  titles, and we had the poor international  results too

It's mind-blowing to think of the players we had in 1974 as well - and were knocked out the WC unbeaten. Hansen was at fault in 82 and we were unlucky in 86 (perfectly good goal chalked off against a fine Denmark side, kicked off the park against the Uruguayan neanderthals) but 90 was a classic capitulation. I suppose Costa Rica also beating Sweden takes the sting out a wee bit, but we really should have got out of that group. 

Incidentally, someone mentioned the possibility of limiting overseas players; I believe it was EU "freedom of movement" law that put a stop to '3 foreigners rule' type arrangements in Italy and other leagues. Why not make Brexit work for us here and apply a similar restriction, now we're no longer encumbered by EU law? Forcing more homegrown talent through is the only way.

[1903Fitba]

Violence is the only answer. 
 

Need a good old riot like the French. 

[ericblack4boss]

Good point about  the 3 foreigner rule anyone know  if this is still enforceable?

Just as an aside. I'm now in my 50s and i seriously  doubt if I will see any other club win the title in my lifetime. 

I feel blessed  im a way that I can remember  another club being  champions  so many fans have never seen it

[slippers]

27 minutes ago, sooth_stander said:

Definitely agree that there either needs to be a limit on the qty of loan players coming in from outwith Scotland, or a complete stop to it.

Additionally, there needs to be rules introduced that means every starting lineup has a certain percentage of home grown players in it. Not on the bench, in the starting team 

Is their any limits to youth in match day squad the now? With us being able to use 5 subs now it would definitely give them exposure if you had to have 2/3 youth players in squad under 20. 

[slippers]

5 minutes ago, ericblack4boss said:

Good point about  the 3 foreigner rule anyone know  if this is still enforceable?

Just as an aside. I'm now in my 50s and i seriously  doubt if I will see any other club win the title in my lifetime. 

I feel blessed  im a way that I can remember  another club being  champions  so many fans have never seen it

3 foreigner rule would benefit national team but it wouldn’t benefit the clubs I don’t think. Be reluctant to go down that route. But definitely need to enforce 2/3 players under 20.

[Granite95]

Would love to see the league implement some  of the changes mentioned but Scottish football is built to serve 2 teams. In the eyes of the SFA/SPFL they’d love nothing more than the ugly sisters play every week as that’s who they care about 

At the very least an expanded league system would help to make things more competitive and at least make the league more enjoyable than playing the same teams 3 or 4 times a season 

[strachanmcgheegoal]

I say again.  You’re asking the cheeks to give something up (autocracy) and you’ll have to force TV AND the SPFL as is to give up two derbies on which the game is basically predicated.

What are you offering in return?  Do you think they give a monkeys arse about a stronger Ayr or Dunfermline?

I realise the answer is we’ve got to tell them to get on board or bog off, but that’s not happening any time soon.

And finally, those old enough to remember it tell me the issue with bigger leagues is mid table teams coasting esp at season end.  It’s what gave rise to the SPL in the first place.  How do you deal with that?

[strachanmcgheegoal]

7 minutes ago, Granite95 said:

Would love to see the league implement some  of the changes mentioned but Scottish football is built to serve 2 teams. In the eyes of the SFA/SPFL they’d love nothing more than the ugly sisters play every week as that’s who they care about 

At the very least an expanded league system would help to make things more competitive and at least make the league more enjoyable than playing the same teams 3 or 4 times a season 

Again.  Now, for 80% of their paying public the current league is perfectly competitive.  In fact the only thing that’ll catalyse change is if the Tims extend their dominance.  And the problem the rest of us have is that Celtic, unlike Murray’s Rangers (RIP) have the sense not to do that.

[JojoJuan]

The argument about uncompetitive, unimportant mid table end of season games could be leveled at any league. The top leagues all have more teams and play each other twice. They also have midtable teams not in the running for anything, does them no harm. 

We are not different, it will exist, but it is a good time to give youth a chance, and there are not actually that many games where neither team is playing for anything now. 

Increase the number of relegation slots to 3 up 3 down and with European places at stake, most of the league still have something to play for

[RabidGiraffe]

50 minutes ago, slippers said:

Their is fuck all money to distribute. An extra 100k a year or something isn’t going to change much. 

Some of the clubs further down the pyramid would could use an extra £100k, but I think we can do better than that if distribution is more even.

Prize money for the top league this year was £26.3m with about 30% of it going to the top two, who are the teams who least need the money.  If it was evenly distributed then the club finishing 12th would get about £2.2m instead of £1.4m, That's a significant difference.

Not saying it's some kind of silver bullet.  As well as a more even distribution we need more money and the Donkey-master responsible for getting the deals hasn't done a great job in the fuck knows how long he's been in charge.  Must be 30 years.  If he was any good at his job or highly thought of in the industry he would have been away by now and we could try something different.  Time for change.