ERNIE Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Warnocks one signing looked pretty good on Saturday... Link to comment
slippers Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 12 minutes ago, DoonTheLine said: A Rafa Benitez Blog from 12 years ago goes into how clubs in Europe set up against England - Now most follow the Europe model - didnt need a full review to figure this out - A Football Club's Structure - Rafa Benitez's view | Rafa Benitez Official Website Should be Cormack at top, Burrows below him, Gunn below him from Business aspect (Not DOF!) and also Tech Director for football below Burrows for all footballing operations (sets model for entire club from First team to Youths), then scouting/recruitement manager below that working alongside Head Coach/Manager. Key factor is Tech Director, Recruitement and Manager all work together on the the aims with no interference from CEO/Owner etc bar clear discussions over budgets or how club is progressing. Gunner in this set-up shouldn't even be a factor in the footballing side! Might send in an invoice to the Dons..... The technical director answers to Gunn so he’s a factor. Link to comment
ERNIE Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 8 minutes ago, DoonTheLine said: A Rafa Benitez Blog from 12 years ago goes into how clubs in Europe set up against England - Now most follow the Europe model - didnt need a full review to figure this out - A Football Club's Structure - Rafa Benitez's view | Rafa Benitez Official Website Should be Cormack at top, Burrows below him, Gunn below him from Business aspect (Not DOF!) and also Tech Director for football below Burrows for all footballing operations (sets model for entire club from First team to Youths), then scouting/recruitement manager below that working alongside Head Coach/Manager. Might send in an invoice Always thought the manager should be the main guy at any club...what experience of playing coaching or managing have Cormack Burrows Gunn got? Link to comment
aberdeen1970 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Gunn is getting more line reports? 1 Link to comment
Johnnyred1 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Just when the players put in a great performance, Warnock walks and covers himself, with lying to the fans that we have an imminent replacement. Right now he could be working with the players but instead spat the dummy out. Poor show. Link to comment
slippers Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Some right shite being interviewed this week. Depressing! 1 Link to comment
DelMonte Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 12 minutes ago, ERNIE said: Always thought the manager should be the main guy at any club...what experience of playing coaching or managing have Cormack Burrows Gunn got? What experience does Michael Edwards have of this? Dan Ashworth? You know better than Liverpool or Newcastle I suppose. Link to comment
DelMonte Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 A technical director would be a good appointment. Unfortunately they need to empty Gunn too. Getting upstairs in order and working with a head coach is the way forward for a football club in 2024. Get these positions in place and we should be set up well. 1 Link to comment
shooftahmooftah Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, slippers said: New manager in place in international break interviewing this week. Gunn looks safe but someone appointed alongside him to help. Wurzel Gummage, Link to comment
DoonTheLine Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 21 minutes ago, ERNIE said: Always thought the manager should be the main guy at any club...what experience of playing coaching or managing have Cormack Burrows Gunn got? Think that's the point of the model. The manager in essence is still a main guy, but he works with the Tech Director who is a guy who understands football but also the business aspects - he's then a conduit to the CEO/Owner etc. This means the managers voice is heard to the ownership but the tech director also respects the business aspects to allow him to discuss/negotiate the clubs requirements accordingly. Gone are the days of a Chairman and Manager just working in tandem at this kind of level or if looking to progress (rightly or wrongly). What it does also mean though is that Cormack, Burrows and Gunn as you say shouldn't really be surrounding the manager from a footballing standpoint...which at the moment it seems to be the case where you see/hear them a lot of the time. Link to comment
Dandys1983 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Derek Rae's twitter post today is a good read. I think this audit won't have been cheap, and by sounds of it will be worth falling through with all their suggestions, good read if you have twitter. Link to comment
shooftahmooftah Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 45 minutes ago, The Gee Man said: Our aim is to appoint a First Team Manager during the upcoming international break. In the meantime, Peter Leven will continue in interim charge, assisted by Scott Anderson and Craig Samson.” From Cormack downwards this lot couldn’t run water out of a tap. Link to comment
DoonTheLine Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 4 minutes ago, Dandys1983 said: Derek Rae's twitter post today is a good read. I think this audit won't have been cheap, and by sounds of it will be worth falling through with all their suggestions, good read if you have twitter. It is a good read and I have no issue with the the individuals involved in reporting the appropriate model/ideology. The worry I have is for the club to follow it and adhere to it? Can Dave Cormack step back and let the technical director take the glory? Can we get the internal set-up right to support the head-coach/manager, or will it be too tempting for the likes of Dave to get involved again if things are going good? Link to comment
The Hulk Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 It looks like too many cooks but in reality if/when it works effectively it need only be a two-tier structure. Cormack + board; no need to get involved in day to day; all they are interested in is that the club is functioning properly Chief Executive in charge of all staff and day to day matters; lives and dies by the performance of the whole club Operations Director (Gunn) - Technical Director - First Team Manager; each in complete charge of their own function but all having to work together effectively. The reality is that Gunn will be moved sideways into a role that is lesser scope. In the boy's defence the role given him by Cormack is/was too big. The point remains that if Cormack had a better idea of how to run a football club he would (1) not have put Gunn in (that) post, (2) not needed to reach out to external consultants (at this stage in his tenure) and/or (3) instructed that consultancy report at day one of his Chairmanship. Recognising a mistake is all fine and well, but 4-5 years into your stewardship of the club is really bad leadership. All of this is on Cormack. All of it. 4 Link to comment
ERNIE Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 46 minutes ago, zeroisgod76 said: 🎵 WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE DOING, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE DOING 🎵 Thought you said o neil signed and sealed? 2 Link to comment
At The Border Guy Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, Yorston Vasey said: https://www.afc.co.uk/2024/03/11/club-statement-football-review-update/?fbclid=IwAR3P4xocTH1ESEc3EordAz2jQTn-02wFhh77TyZ06kCZocn9reZdKznZKhU Here is your update, there is no update. Shambles. It might just be the choice of wording, but there's nothing here to suggest it was a genuine attempt to change poor decisions/culture, and everything to suggest it was a hand-holding exercise to cover for the board's future decisions. Link to comment
shooftahmooftah Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 47 minutes ago, The Gee Man said: Our aim is to appoint a First Team Manager during the upcoming international break. In the meantime, Peter Leven will continue in interim charge, assisted by Scott Anderson and Craig Samson.” Our aim is to appoint a first team manager. ??????? That’s a misquote Burrows , you lot are aiming for relegation. Best place for you Burrows and for those above and below you is your Burrow in the Hazelhead woods along with your fellow Badgers. 1 1 1 1 Link to comment
NEM Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, slippers said: It’s not a demotion. The technical director will report to gunn. Another £200k going out the club every year to cover Gunn's incompetence. Off field wage bill must be bigger than the playing budget. Couldn't make it up. Link to comment
DoonTheLine Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, The Hulk said: It looks like too many cooks but in reality if/when it works effectively it need only be a two-tier structure. Cormack + board; no need to get involved in day to day; all they are interested in is that the club is functioning properly Chief Executive in charge of all staff and day to day matters; lives and dies by the performance of the whole club Operations Director (Gunn) - Technical Director - First Team Manager; each in complete charge of their own function but all having to work together effectively. The realaity is that Gunn will be moved sideways into a role that is lesser scope. In the boy's defence the role given him by Cormack is/was too big. The point remains that if Cormack had a better idea of how to run a football club he would (1) not have put Gunn in (that) post, (2) not needed to reach out to external consultants (at this stage in his tenure) and/or (3) instructed that consultancy report at day one of his Chairmanship. Recognising a mistake is all fine and well, but 4-5 years into your stewardship of the club is really bad leadership. All of this is on Cormack. All of it. Agreed, and totally agree it's all on Cormack. Fact of the matter is he thought he knew better than anyone when he came in, and it's been stumbling from one mess to the next for 4-5 years due to his ego not allowing him to consult on matters from day one as you say. The issue with all this review etc is will Dave's ego allow him to not get involved day to day, not be seen and visible if/when things start going well? His ego will always overtake the needs of everything else at some point... 1 Link to comment
pittodriepie83 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 18 minutes ago, slippers said: Some right shite being interviewed this week. Depressing! Go on then… 12 minutes ago, DelMonte said: A technical director would be a good appointment. Unfortunately they need to empty Gunn too. Getting upstairs in order and working with a head coach is the way forward for a football club in 2024. Get these positions in place and we should be set up well. I’d agree but then you have to remember who’s choosing the TD. Hopefully this German mob will know what they’re doing & have recommended a few so Cormack et al don’t start doing their own “due diligence” Link to comment
DoonTheLine Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, pittodriepie83 said: Go on then… I’d agree but then you have to remember who’s choosing the TD. Hopefully this German mob will know what they’re doing & have recommended a few so Cormack et al don’t start doing their own “due diligence” God that's a great point on who's choosing the TD.....we could end up with Garner in the role... 1 Link to comment
The Hulk Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 8 minutes ago, DoonTheLine said: Agreed, and totally agree it's all on Cormack. Fact of the matter is he thought he knew better than anyone when he came in, and it's been stumbling from one mess to the next for 4-5 years due to his ego not allowing him to consult on matters from day one as you say. The issue with all this review etc is will Dave's ego allow him to not get involved day to day, not be seen and visible if/when things start going well? His ego will always overtake the needs of everything else at some point... That's the worry isn't it? If Burrows does his job right, there's no need for us to ever hear from Cormack. Since Burrows has been appointed though, it doesn't appear to have been the case, so we've got to hope that he adheres to the message from the report. I've done bits of the Sporting Directorship pathway with the SFA so I'm aware of bits & pieces of how the structure is meant to be. There is no danger of a TD having to report to Gunn (unless he becomes CEO) if this process is done properly. Again, if Cormack's ego allows himself to follow it through... 2 Link to comment
shooftahmooftah Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, Proud Dandy said: While we are undoubtedly a shambles, we’ve got to remember Warnock didn’t win a league game so him departing for a couple of games with Leven in charge doesn’t change much. No faith in the board to get things right though, this whole situation is embarrassing, including this football review, it’ll be most of the same clowns left running things when the review is complete. Along with a few clowns in red shirts. 1 hour ago, McPhee123 said: "“We plan to conduct a number of interviews this week and, in certain cases, seek permission to do so where managers are under contract elsewhere." So that whole thing about being in advanced talks was a load of pish then That’s what’s been running the club for years, a bunch of liars. Who treat their supporters with contempt. Link to comment
WesthillWanderersFC Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 What exactly is the difference in remit between a Technical Director & a Director of Football? Do we really need both? 1 Link to comment
DelMonte Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, WesthillWanderersFC said: What exactly is the difference in remit between a Technical Director & a Director of Football? Do we really need both? Gunn won’t be Director of football. Link to comment
ERNIE Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 22 minutes ago, DoonTheLine said: Think that's the point of the model. The manager in essence is still a main guy, but he works with the Tech Director who is a guy who understands football but also the business aspects - he's then a conduit to the CEO/Owner etc. This means the managers voice is heard to the ownership but the tech director also respects the business aspects to allow him to discuss/negotiate the clubs requirements accordingly. Gone are the days of a Chairman and Manager just working in tandem at this kind of level or if looking to progress (rightly or wrongly). What it does also mean though is that Cormack, Burrows and Gunn as you say shouldn't really be surrounding the manager from a footballing standpoint...which at the moment it seems to be the case where you see/hear them a lot of the time. I could agree with that.Our most successful time was when we had Chris Anderson who was a technical director in all but name.As you say as long as the other 3 leave it to this tech director and manager.Dont think we need a director of football as well though.Only problem would be finding and keeping the right guy.We already find it difficult to appoint a manager and keep the hor for more than a few months. 1 Link to comment
The Hulk Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 4 minutes ago, WesthillWanderersFC said: What exactly is the difference in remit between a Technical Director & a Director of Football? Do we really need both? Gunn will be highly likely moved to an operational role more in keeping with his skill-set. They'll be calling it TD to differentiate it from the (we won't be) confused role that Cormack gave to Gunn. Sporting Director is the truest term. Link to comment
shooftahmooftah Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 2 hours ago, pittodriepie83 said: Seems bizarre that Warnock has gone considering they haven’t even interviewed anyone yet. Wonder if he’s thought he was coming into a better squad than what he has done, and thought fuck this I’m off. That’s the reason he was having nightmares at 2 in morning, every night. Good decision to get out. Link to comment
Johnnyred1 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 The whole process must be draining for the players. Let's hope they group together and create their own siege mentality. Over to you Shinnie. Link to comment
slippers Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 19 minutes ago, NEM said: Another £200k going out the club every year to cover Gunn's incompetence. Off field wage bill must be bigger than the playing budget. Couldn't make it up. Gunn isn’t on 200k a year haha! 1 Link to comment
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