Next Manager

[aberdeen1970]

12 minutes ago, Simply Red said:

There will be no backlash, regardless who it is. 
Aye there will be folk getting hysterical on here as usual. But Pittodrie will be the same as always. 

Aye. The most vocal folk on here never set foot in Pittodrie. 

[RAZOR]

Would be Cormack's 3rd appointment of a former player.

[DD1903]

35 minutes ago, Bebo said:

Supporters of other teams can post if they stay within the rules and not continuously on the wind up. Huns and Celtic supporters are banned on sight. 
 

...along with duplicate accounts. 

I knew it! Who was it?!

[Willo flood]

16 minutes ago, slippers said:

I’ve had a look.

Brechin 28%

Shamrock 54%

N Ireland 36%

Stoke 38%

N Ireland 27%
 

Hardly the most inspiring….

And if you compared that to this:

St Johnstone 40%

Bristol City 27%

Without knowing whose statistics it is. Which manager would you prefer?

 

[minijc]

Win rate is a bit stupid imo, focus should really be on what that manager has built at previous clubs and if they can implement a specific way of playing whilst sticking to the core values of the club like youth development, working within a budget and getting the most out of a limited side.

[Ten Caat]

Managing Shamrock Rovers in the ROI is kind of the equivalent of managing Celtic here. Winning things with them is expected. 

His record everywhere else is fairly poor ( given their relative size his first spell at NI wasn't bad all things considered).

But he's now on a long term contract with them and it's supposedly a very lucrative one. 

For me, O'Neill would just be too expensive both to compensate the IFA for his release and then to cover the contract he'd want from us.

 

[aberdeen1970]

Just now, minijc said:

Win rate is a bit stupid imo, focus should really be on what that manager has built at previous clubs and if they can implement a specific way of playing whilst sticking to the core values of the club like youth development, working within a budget and getting the most out of a limited side.

Yep it's a red herring in many ways 

More important to focus on whether they have punched above or below their belt in their previous jobs. 

A 50% win rate at Aberdeen is a completely different beast to a 50% win rate at Celtic 

[WesthillWanderersFC]

Just now, Willo flood said:

And if you compared that to this:

St Johnstone 40%

Bristol City 27%

Without knowing whose statistics it is. Which manager would you prefer?

 

The bottom line is, we are highly unlikely to get a manager who’s never been sacked or failed somewhere, for whatever reason(s).

The vast majority of managers who have been a manager for 10 years + will have been sacked.

We are in a backwater of a league. 
We cannot win that league. 
We are not as attractive a club as a lot on here seem to think.

I think the Board are probably finding that out just now.

Like it or not, from a British perspective, we’re not going to attract anyone bigger than the likes of O’Neill & Neil (I don’t either would come anyway). 

[WesthillWanderersFC]

5 minutes ago, Ten Caat said:

Managing Shamrock Rovers in the ROI is kind of the equivalent of managing Celtic here. Winning things with them is expected. 

His record everywhere else is fairly poor ( given their relative size his first spell at NI wasn't bad all things considered).

But he's now on a long term contract with them and it's supposedly a very lucrative one. 

For me, O'Neill would just be too expensive both to compensate the IFA for his release and then to cover the contract he'd want from us.

 

I agree with paragraphs 3 & 4.

Too much ££££’s. 

And is he the manager to bust the bank for? 
Not for me.

Would rather spend that level of cash on a foreigner. 

[aberdeen1970]

Nobody knows the terms of O'Neill's contract at Northern Ireland. 

It's not a given that we would have to pay off his full contract. There could be break clauses in there for either or both parties. 

[Ten Caat]

2 minutes ago, aberdeen1970 said:

Nobody knows the terms of O'Neill's contract at Northern Ireland. 

It's not a given that we would have to pay off his full contract. There could be break clauses in there for either or both parties. 

We do know that in his first spell there he was offered the Scotland job and turned it down because what the SFA were offering him wasn't even close to what the IFA were paying him. 

It's a safe bet he'll now be on an even better contract in his second spell with them.

[Dandys1983]

I think the issue is if O'Neil was close it would be all over the papers and twitter etc, it's not.

[jamiesd]

Overseen some of the worst football ever seen at Stoke City. AVOID

[Frank Grimes]

3 minutes ago, Dandys1983 said:

I think the issue is if O'Neil was close it would be all over the papers and twitter etc, it's not.

Would agree apart from the fact NI are playing us on Tuesday 

[aberdeen1970]

4 minutes ago, Ten Caat said:

 

It's a safe bet he'll now be on an even better contract in his second spell with them.

Not necessarily. 

And he could have a release clause of a certain value should a particular type of vacancy arise.  Some managers even have windows in their contract when they can walk away these days. Not completely impossible that a period in between qualifying campaigns at international level could be a period of this type. 

The point is nobody knows the intricacies of his current contract. 

 

[JamieMT]

5 minutes ago, WesthillWanderersFC said:

The bottom line is, we are highly unlikely to get a manager who’s never been sacked or failed somewhere, for whatever reason(s).

The vast majority of managers who have been a manager for 10 years + will have been sacked.

We are in a backwater of a league. 
We cannot win that league. 
We are not as attractive a club as a lot on here seem to think.

I think the Board are probably finding that out just now.

Like it or not, from a British perspective, we’re not going to attract anyone bigger than the likes of O’Neill & Neil (I don’t either would come anyway). 

100%. There's some serious delusion in certain quarters as to what constitutes a big name manager. No matter what people might think of them, Alex Neil and Michael O'Neill are stretching the upper limits of managers we could appoint.

[Rubinho Escocia]

15 minutes ago, Ernie McCracken said:

How is he Miles ahead of McInnes?

He took over at Shamrock Rovers who had not won the league for c.20 years or qualified for Europe for c.10 years and with a few seasons had won the league and become the first manager to ever lead an Irish league team to the Group Stages of European competition by knocking out Partizan Belgrade. I’d argue that McInnes wouldn’t be able to get an Irish team through to the a group stages as his repeated attempts and failures at Aberdeen showed.

O’Neill then took Northern Ireland to the later stages of International tournaments. I liked McInnes and appreciate he’s never been an international manager but I’d have my doubts that if he was Northern Ireland manager they’d not just be the cannon fodder they’ve been for most of my life.

Both O’Neill and McInnes took over championship clubs with financial issues in danger of relegation, and to their credit both kept their clubs up. However, whilst O’Neill and McInnes both slashed the wage bill that’s where the similarities ended.

O’Neills younger team were inconsistent but disappointing mid table performers whilst Mcinnes had a record breaking spell of 7 straight defeats before he was fired as Bristol City manager, with the club adrift a mess that would ultimately be relegated.  

People seem to quote win percentages (often with no context) so I’d also point, that McInnes win percentage at Bristol was weaker than his immediate peers, whilst O’Neills win percentage at Stoke was stronger than his immediate peers.

Bristol City:

Gary Jonson 40.2%

Keith Millen 31.6%

Derek McInnes 27.0%

Steve Cotterill ??

Lee Johnson 38.7%

Dean Holdon 44.2%

 

Stoke:

Paul Lambert 13.3%

Gary Rowett 31.0%

Nathan Jones 15.8%

Michael O’Neill 38.5%

Alex Neil 33.3%

Stephen Schumacher 29.4%

 

[WesthillWanderersFC]

This article on O’Neill @ Stoke has a lot of similarities to McInnes at Bristol City.

Basket case club, financially crippled & saved them from relegation when taking over they were bottom. 

https://www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11095/12681015/stoke-city-sack-manager-michael-oneill-after-poor-start-to-championship-season

[Torry Tosser]

Lunchtime tomorrow all will be revealed I believe,and that is that the board haven't a fucking clue who is getting the job.😀

[Ernie McCracken]

5 minutes ago, Rubinho Escocia said:

He took over at Shamrock Rovers who had not won the league for c.20 years or qualified for Europe for c.10 years and with a few seasons had won the league and become the first manager to ever lead an Irish league team to the Group Stages of European competition by knocking out Partizan Belgrade. I’d argue that McInnes wouldn’t be able to get an Irish team through to the a group stages as his repeated attempts and failures at Aberdeen showed.

O’Neill then took Northern Ireland to the later stages of International tournaments. I liked McInnes and appreciate he’s never been an international manager but I’d have my doubts that if he was Northern Ireland manager they’d not just be the cannon fodder they’ve been for most of my life.

Both O’Neill and McInnes took over championship clubs with financial issues in danger of relegation, and to their credit both kept their clubs up. However, whilst O’Neill and McInnes both slashed the wage bill that’s where the similarities ended.

O’Neills younger team were inconsistent but disappointing mid table performers whilst Mcinnes had a record breaking spell of 7 straight defeats before he was fired as Bristol City manager, with the club adrift a mess that would ultimately be relegated.  

People seem to quote win percentages (often with no context) so I’d also point, that McInnes win percentage at Bristol was weaker than his immediate peers, whilst O’Neills win percentage at Stoke was stronger than his immediate peers.

Bristol City:

Gary Jonson 40.2%

Keith Millen 31.6%

Derek McInnes 27.0%

Steve Cotterill ??

Lee Johnson 38.7%

Dean Holdon 44.2%

 

Stoke:

Paul Lambert 13.3%

Gary Rowett 31.0%

Nathan Jones 15.8%

Michael O’Neill 38.5%

Alex Neil 33.3%

Stephen Schumacher 29.4%

 

To be fair, you make a good case.

[Dunty]

What I don't understand is why people wanted Steve Clarke yet describe O'Neil as boring. 

Their management records are fairly similar, and O'Neil has actually taken Northern Ireland further in a tournament despite less than half the population of Scotland, and the Republic of Ireland taking a few of their players.

He drew 1-1 with Romania the other day with a team that has an average age of 23.5, and having to pick English League One players. O'Neil has done an exceptional job there.

[ahead on alphabet]

4 minutes ago, Dunty said:

What I don't understand is why people wanted Steve Clarke yet describe O'Neil as boring. 

Their management records are fairly similar, and O'Neil has actually taken Northern Ireland further in a tournament despite less than half the population of Scotland, and the Republic of Ireland taking a few of their players.

He drew 1-1 with Romania the other day with a team that has an average age of 23.5, and having to pick English League One players. O'Neil has done an exceptional job there.

Maybe they aren't the same people.

[ahead on alphabet]

12 minutes ago, Rubinho Escocia said:

He took over at Shamrock Rovers who had not won the league for c.20 years or qualified for Europe for c.10 years and with a few seasons had won the league and become the first manager to ever lead an Irish league team to the Group Stages of European competition by knocking out Partizan Belgrade. I’d argue that McInnes wouldn’t be able to get an Irish team through to the a group stages as his repeated attempts and failures at Aberdeen showed.

O’Neill then took Northern Ireland to the later stages of International tournaments. I liked McInnes and appreciate he’s never been an international manager but I’d have my doubts that if he was Northern Ireland manager they’d not just be the cannon fodder they’ve been for most of my life.

Both O’Neill and McInnes took over championship clubs with financial issues in danger of relegation, and to their credit both kept their clubs up. However, whilst O’Neill and McInnes both slashed the wage bill that’s where the similarities ended.

O’Neills younger team were inconsistent but disappointing mid table performers whilst Mcinnes had a record breaking spell of 7 straight defeats before he was fired as Bristol City manager, with the club adrift a mess that would ultimately be relegated.  

People seem to quote win percentages (often with no context) so I’d also point, that McInnes win percentage at Bristol was weaker than his immediate peers, whilst O’Neills win percentage at Stoke was stronger than his immediate peers.

Bristol City:

Gary Jonson 40.2%

Keith Millen 31.6%

Derek McInnes 27.0%

Steve Cotterill ??

Lee Johnson 38.7%

Dean Holdon 44.2%

 

Stoke:

Paul Lambert 13.3%

Gary Rowett 31.0%

Nathan Jones 15.8%

Michael O’Neill 38.5%

Alex Neil 33.3%

Stephen Schumacher 29.4%

 

That's some good spin on it but I'm still not entirely convinced. 

[ericblack4boss]

Would be interesting  to find out hoe O' Neill would  have fared if he had taken the scotland  job, similar tactically  to Clarke and of much the same demeanour.

As a player I really rated him. A fantastic  left foot. and on his time at Hibs i believed that on form he was thr best left footed player in the country. 

Always appeared  to be injury prone though  maybe it was it his lifestyle  rather than fitness.

He came to us on a month's loan deal under Alex Miller, the man that signed him for Hibernian , I think  Strachan was manager at Coventry at the time.

[JamieMT]

3 minutes ago, Dunty said:

What I don't understand is why people wanted Steve Clarke yet describe O'Neil as boring. 

Their management records are fairly similar, and O'Neil has actually taken Northern Ireland further in a tournament despite less than half the population of Scotland, and the Republic of Ireland taking a few of their players.

He drew 1-1 with Romania the other day with a team that has an average age of 23.5, and having to pick English League One players. O'Neil has done an exceptional job there.

👏 There's no denying the job Michael O'Neill's done with Northern Ireland has been absolutely outstanding. Deserves full credit for what he's done there.

[Willo flood]

Let’s be honest, if Micheal O’Neil had a similar CV, just in another part of the world and his name was perhaps Mikel Onelle then I guarantee 50% of the people dead against him would suddenly be twerking for him outside Pittodrie just because he’s a ‘foreign name’.

 

[dave_min]

1 minute ago, Willo flood said:

Let’s be honest, if Micheal O’Neil had a similar CV, just in another part of the world and his name was perhaps Mikel Onelle then I guarantee 50% of the people dead against him would suddenly be twerking for him outside Pittodrie just because he’s a ‘forgein name’.

 

That the same Mikel Onelle who was eating at the new Vietnamese place on Saturday night? 

[minijc]

3 minutes ago, Willo flood said:

Let’s be honest, if Micheal O’Neil had a similar CV, just in another part of the world and his name was perhaps Mikel Onelle then I guarantee 50% of the people dead against him would suddenly be twerking for him outside Pittodrie just because he’s a ‘foreign name’.

 

Load of rubbish.

[RedRevolution]

2 hours ago, NEM said:

Weren’t wrong were they? 

If you keep betting on red at roulette you will be right eventually. They were completely wrong about Europe. Like many I was worried we could take a sore loss to Paok or Frankfurt. Even to the Swedes and Finns. But I enjoyed the European adventure and the boys did ok. He made signings with Europe in mind and assumed the league would take care of itself. The Scottish premiership is a square go all over the park with the ref oblivious to the concept of foul play applying for aggressive conduct unless it's against Celtic or Rangers. Our defence couldn't handle the high balls and the physicality. The problem grew from there. When we played we played some good stuff. The team needs another couple of windows. It certainly doesn't need to be ripped apart and start again as per Goodwin's approach.

[Torry Tosser]

I've spent a wee while reading some stuff on one of the Stoke forums,reading about Michael O'Neill.

Regardless to what someone stated on here that he was hated by all,is way off the mark.

He is still liked by a lot of their fans for what he had to put up with from the Stoke board.

They say the side he was building just needed a bit more time,and then he was sacked but left a good foundation to build on for next manager.

So he actually wasn't hated by all there.