Donald Trump golf course

[Ke1t]

even in the North of scotland there are days the turbines aint turning - when they dont what do you do - sit in the dark?

 

Presumably you don't only rely on the wind turbines. There's miles of coast, so you can stick in wave power. some days it's sunny, so you can have solar power.

 

Nuclear technology has much improved since the early days so why look backwards - to use your own analogy

 

 

 

There is FAR to much fear over nuclear technology and it is something that has come on leaps and bounds in the 1/2 century + we have had time to develop it.

 

Nuclear power is inherently the most dangerous form of power generation we currently use. It's fine when everything runs tickety-boo 99.99% of the time.... but if a wind generator falls over in an earthquake you kill a few sheep. A wave generator might kill a few fish. solar panels might cook some birds.

 

A nuclear reactor goes shit-shaped and the consequences are horrendous.

 

Dangerous doesn't merely imply on a day to day basis, it refers to the repercussions of when things go wrong... and things DO go wrong, whether that's human error like Chernobyl or an act of Israel like the Japanese reactors.

[Bamber]

 

 

Dangerous doesn't merely imply on a day to day basis, it refers to the repercussions of when things go wrong... and things DO go wrong, whether that's human error like Chernobyl or an act of Israel like the Japanese reactors.

 

 

Japan, 10000 people died as a result of the tsunami, of those 10000 precisly 0 can be attributed to fukushima

 

3 Mile Island - deaths attributal to the accidenta and aftermath 0

 

6000 died as a result of chernobyl and its aftermath (32 directly related to the "accident" some say accident other gross stupidity)

 

35 people have died from wind turbines in the USA - mainly during construction but some due to blades shattering

 

more people have been killed in the last 5 years by wind turbines than have by nuclear power

[Ke1t]

Japan, 10000 people died as a result of the tsunami, of those 10000 precisly 0 can be attributed to fukushima

 

3 Mile Island - deaths attributal to the accidenta and aftermath 0

 

6000 died as a result of chernobyl and its aftermath (32 directly related to the "accident" some say accident other gross stupidity)

 

35 people have died from wind turbines in the USA - mainly during construction but some due to blades shattering

 

more people have been killed in the last 5 years by wind turbines than have by nuclear power

 

 

This is probably the first time since the accident that I've seen anyone try to minimise the catastrophe that was Chernobyl.

 

But, fuck it, it's Friday night, I'll play along. This could get hilarious.

 

Just a quick Google as to the effects of ONE nuclear disaster at Chernobyl, there may have been a million premature cancer deaths wordwide up untill 2004 (undoubtedly that has increased in the last 8 years), because great clouds of radioactive soot boiled into the atmosphere remember, according to a Russian publication.

 

Three quarters of a million hectares of farmland in 3 neighboring countries were rendered unusable.

 

Over 600,000 hectares of viable timber forest was rendered unusable.

 

530,000 local workers received 50 years-worth of radiation, meaning there's going to be health issues either past, present or future as a direct result of the accident.

 

300,000 people had to be relocated, not least in Pripyat....

 

 

Between 5 and 7 % of Ukraine's national budget goes towards Chernobyl-related projects.

 

7 million people in Belarus and Ukraine receive benefits, or assistance, as a result of the accident.

 

The cost since the accident, in terms of economic impact, relief programmes, benefits, medical, clean-up et al, estimated to now be in the hundreds of billions.

 

Birth defects in Ukranian districts, such as Rivne, are around three times the European average.

 

Sheep in Scotland still have to be tested for levels of radiation each year by the FSA, and they still, 20 odd years later, have traces of radiation in their bodies. Because the soil their grass grow in still has radiation in it.

 

But 6 people a year die from Wind Turbine related injuries, eh?

 

[Old Wing Stand]

Maybe some will be glad of our windmills

 

Watchdog Warns Of Power Shortages By 2015

Falling power generation in the UK could result in spare capacity reaching a worryingly low level, it is claimed.4:28pm UK, Friday 05 October 2012

 

Pembroke power station is among new generation of energy generators

UK electrical generation type of plant as a proportion of totalcapacity (in MegaWatts) at end of 2011.

Solar etc, 3,084

Wind, 2,727

Hydro, 2,744

Gas & Oil, 1,532

CC Gas, 32,091

Coal/oil steam, 34,729

Nuclear, 10,663

DUKES/ONS

 

Graph: Types Of UK Power Generation

Enlarge

 

 

 

Email

A report by the energy regulator warns of the prospect of higher bills and the potential for power shortages because of falling spare capacity in electricity generation.

 

Ofgem's first Electricity Capacity Assessment for the Government forecasts a reduction in generation margins over the next four years, falling from 14% to 4% over the winter of 2015/16.

 

One reason for the deterioration is that coal-fired power stations are closing earlier than expected under EU environmental legislation, forcing the UK to import more gas to compensate and therefore risk costs rising.

 

The watchdog had already identified the major challenges in a previous report in 2009: that Britain faced an unprecedented combination of the global financial crisis, tough environmental targets and the closure of ageing power stations.

 

The latest study showed those risks, and the possibility of higher bills as a result of the constraints, had not gone away.

 

Ed Davey, Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, said he would respond to the report before the end of the year with the forthcoming Energy Bill aiming to secure supplies.

 

"Security of electricity supply is of critical importance to the health of the economy and the smooth functioning of our daily lives," he said.

 

Ofgem

[The Boofon]

so what do you do on an abnormal day? and we do get them

 

 

Use the power that's been stored by wind turbines that have been working during the days when there is wind in Scotland.

 

Or in other words switch to battery power.

[Dandyesque]

Trump is right for the wrong reason though

 

Windfarms ARE a waste of time and space

 

Wind turbines only pay for themselves with massive govt subsidies - their cost and life is such that they arent profitable over their lifespan

 

Each 1Mw provided needs a power station sitting with the furnaces burning in case the wind isnt there to produce 1Mw. so we have to pay for a power staton that is capable of producing electricty but just burning fossil fuels and producing nothing

 

So we have a double whammy on costs subsidising a wind turbine that has to have a ready made back up doing nothing

 

Build a nuclear power plant next door to his course instead and then we are all winners

 

Nuclear only "pays for itself" with massive Government subsidies - ie it doesn't pay for itself at all.

 

There are other cost factors that are non-monetary though - and renewable energies are cheap in many of these, nuclear is not.

 

Plus, you generally need some sort of fuel source - eg Uranium - which is mined and also, like oil, finite.

 

The only balanced argument is that in favour of an "energy mix".

 

It's getting the mix right that is the problem

[Dandyesque]

What's so funny about distorting the debate?

 

Bamber didn't try to minimise Chernobyl. He was talking of recent records.

 

Surely people can learn from mistakes? There are zillions of examples of defect being written out of the process.

 

Rather than googling a bunch of wow numbers to try and disprove a position that was never held, disclose your expertise in matters of 21st century nuclear power management and then tell us why it is a catastrophe waiting to happen. Any fucking idiot can use google to show how bad that one incident was. Without the rationale to say why it might happen again then it's a waste of time.

 

Private enterprise and squeezing as many pounds out of the consumer as possible is a fair rationale for a repeat.

 

If we are going to proceed with something as dangerous as nuclear power in a big way, I would hope it's not run by the same sort of money-hungry cunts that gave us the credit crunch...

[Citizen Kane Fit Like]

Nuclear only "pays for itself" with massive Government subsidies - ie it doesn't pay for itself at all.

 

There are other cost factors that are non-monetary though - and renewable energies are cheap in many of these, nuclear is not.

 

Plus, you generally need some sort of fuel source - eg Uranium - which is mined and also, like oil, finite.

 

The only balanced argument is that in favour of an "energy mix".

 

It's getting the mix right that is the problem

 

I don't think there are any sources of Uranium in the British Isles, so we have to import whatever fissionable material we need. That's a drawback in itself. Non-renewable and non-native.

 

Whoever gets a commercial mining operation started on the Moon first will rule the world, imo. Probably the Chinese the way things are going. Once you get a permanent base put together you can likely add water extraction to to the mix, and then the Solar System really opens up for exploitation.

 

I'd agree that a mix of various technologies is the rational short term fix for our energy needs... a little nuclear, oil, coal, along with emerging technologies like wind, solar, and wave... with the intent being dispensing with the polluting, non-renewable sources of energy production.

 

I've even seen it speculated that we could one day use the Earth's own electro-magnetic and gravitational fields as a source of renewable energy. Still in the realm of Sci-F, of course, but in the future who knows.

[K-9]

Watching the Trump documentary on STV right now made by the protesters and effectively they are just making a complete tit of themselves and their campaign.

[Bebo]

Watching the Trump documentary on STV right now made by the protesters and effectively they are just making a complete tit of themselves and their campaign.

 

If you look at the documentary hashtag on twitter you'll see the opposite reaction. Most calling grampian police, trump, the snp/alex salmond a disgrace.

[K-9]

If you look at the documentary hashtag on twitter you'll see the opposite reaction. Most calling grampian police, trump, the snp/alex salmond a disgrace.

So same folk as made the film then?

[Bebo]

So same folk as made the film then?

 

Two blokes made the film. Must have a lot of accounts.

[K-9]

Two blokes made the film. Must have a lot of accounts.

Possibly. Haha.

 

Personally laughing my ass off at many of the idiots on the program. Personally think most of the public sympathy for many of these people will have all but gone from those watching this.

 

Edit: Credits be short at end with just 2 names though

[looksgoodinred]

 

 

This development won't create jobs as it won't survive. It might even be the straw that breaks the Donald's back as he's flown very close to the wind many times before. His borrowing on this ego-driven failure might well sink him and his corrupt empire.

 

Much as I'd like to believe you're proven right, the Donald has an amazing knack for doing just fine. He's flown close to the sun a number of times, and seemingly never gets burned. Too badly.

[looksgoodinred]

Nothing lasts for ever and natural justice will always prevail in the end, often in mysterious ways.

 

The appropriateness of your current "Stop Bullying" avatar to this thread couldn't be better.

 

I don't believe justice always prevails. Again, I hope you're right and I'm proven wrong though. I despise bullies, no matter how much cash they can flash.

 

(And the signature is in response to what happened to Amanda Todd and all the others like her.)

[ChutneyLove]

Nuclear fuels are the cleanest, safest and most cost efficient. Anyone who disagrees with that needs their heid looking at and probably does God gigs at weekends.

[Old Wing Stand]

The documentary last night made me despise Trump even more, just hope the windmills get the go ahead so he fucks off never to come back

[athenaeum]

Not a golfer and don't live in Aberdeen anymore but watching that last night made me think what a corrupt country Scotland is

 

Grampian police must be proud of themselves

[Old Wing Stand]

Not a golfer and don't live in Aberdeen anymore but watching that last night made me think what a corrupt country Scotland is

 

Grampian police must be proud of themselves

Missed the bit with the police what happened with them ? Can't get STV player over here to watch it again

[fatshaft]

This development will be cursed. Not only did Trump not factor in the impossibility of collecting revenue for more than half of the year due to the NE climate, his final build will not succeed by reason of minimal customer retention and by word of mouth. It's a trumped up artificial golf course that people will not return to in significant enough numbers.

No, and yes. Word of mouth locally, as I'm sure you're aware, flies very much against what you're saying - and I essentially agree with you it's nowhere near ready - virtually everyone comes away gobsmacked, but yes, there will be no retention, becasue that is not their aim, the aim is overseas or further afield visitors. Locals will come and play it once, I've done the same at kingsbarns, I doubt I'll ever play there again, unless invited at someone else's expense, same goes for Gleneagles.

 

Most normal people play these courses once as a treat, they are not repeat visit venues.

 

 

There are more enjoyable golf courses all over the North East at a fraction of the price. There will be many like me who will pay to play it once but whereas I play Kingsbarns every year at least once and have done since it opened 12 years ago and have now been around it 40 to 50 times, I will not choose to pay to play Trump ever again. It's not worth the money. At some holes when you play them the first time at good courses all over the world, your jaw drops in awe at the beauty in front of you. Not once did I feel this at Trump.

 

Awa and stop yer haverin min, absolute nonsense. The jaw dropping starts at the 3rd, an absolute stunning hole and best on the course, leading to the fourth which is admittedly a little over done on the fairway bunkering for scond shot lay-ups, but still an outstanding hole. Then the 6th, teeing off qith the dunes against your back, to a green cut into dunes, a superb hole on any course. The 13th, the only hole where you fire towards the sea has a great backdrop, and then from the black tees on 14, it's just a 'wow' hole, as is the view from the very top of 18.

 

You may not like the course rocket, but to say there's no wow factor is just you trying to be controversial; and better courses in the north east? come back in 5 years and tell me there's even one. The guy has built one of the best courses in the world, never mind Scotland, to claim otherwise is laughable.

[The Boofon]

No, and yes. Word of mouth locally, as I'm sure you're aware, flies very much against what you're saying - and I essentially agree with you it's nowhere near ready - virtually everyone comes away gobsmacked, but yes, there will be no retention, becasue that is not their aim, the aim is overseas or further afield visitors. Locals will come and play it once, I've done the same at kingsbarns, I doubt I'll ever play there again, unless invited at someone else's expense, same goes for Gleneagles.

 

Most normal people play these courses once as a treat, they are not repeat visit venues.

 

 

 

Awa and stop yer haverin min, absolute nonsense. The jaw dropping starts at the 3rd, an absolute stunning hole and best on the course, leading to the fourth which is admittedly a little over done on the fairway bunkering for scond shot lay-ups, but still an outstanding hole. Then the 6th, teeing off qith the dunes against your back, to a green cut into dunes, a superb hole on any course. The 13th, the only hole where you fire towards the sea has a great backdrop, and then from the black tees on 14, it's just a 'wow' hole, as is the view from the very top of 18.

 

You may not like the course rocket, but to say there's no wow factor is just you trying to be controversial; and better courses in the north east? come back in 5 years and tell me there's even one. The guy has built one of the best courses in the world, never mind Scotland, to claim otherwise is laughable.

 

 

Fatshaft. This has me interested. With regards to the bit in bold what is the issue with regards to these wind turbines being put out to sea if there is only one hole where by you'd have them directly in your vision. This isn't a question as to the merits of wind turbines and an argument as to where they should be and if it's a political vendetta against Trump etc as that's been done to death. Just a general question as to the aesthetics of the course.

[phoenix]

It's the same type of fungus faced bassas that complained about the Kingswells stadium thing and got their way. I wish these people would get a fecking grip and realise there is more to life than the lesser speckled four toed moss eating newt. Tree huging twats!! To spite them Im going to go out to my car and rev the engine while spraying cans of deoderant into the air.

 

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gilXTEqJ74Q

 

 

 

[amancalledbuck]

Golfers are fucking morons.

[GK55]

That programme last night was just a one sided pile of rubbish.

[diamondsr4ever]

That programme last night was just a one sided pile of rubbish.

 

I thought it was an excellent story, what it proves is that our main stations didnt want to dig deeper into the issues surrounding the history and the human factor in all of this, the residents on the estate have been treated like animals.

 

I love golf, but watching this programe last night left a sour taste, would i prefer St Andrews, Kings Barn or even Prestwick before sticking money into this cunts pocket, Im probably willing to stick to my principles ans stic kit to a cunt who seems to lack any humility or understanding as to what our country and history is all about.

[looksgoodinred]

Sarah Malone, executive vice president, Trump International Golf Links, said:

[diamondsr4ever]

Now now. Havering is insulting. You have to understand the difference between matters of fact and matters of opinion.

 

I just can't understand you saying the par 3 3rd is the best hole on the course. You said yourself the 6th was a superb hole and I agree with this. It was the closest to wow I went on any hole although I did love the 4th. The 6th was clearly the best of the par 3's in my opinion as the other three were very same-ey. At 3, 13 and 16, they are so wide left to right that it's almost impossible to take worse than bogey whereas at 6, a slight pull or block could easily lead to a 5 or more. At 16, the pretty bunkers at the front should never come into play as it's obvious you have to take them out of play by taking enough club. The green is so big front to back (exactly like 3 and 13) that it's pretty difficult to make double. These par 3's make them pretty boring and standard in my book and I hit all four of them last Monday.

 

Compare the par 3's at Trump with others just down the road. The variety of the par 3's at Royal is wonderful - the signature 8th being a classic - and the 5th and 16th at Murcar are stunning and, like RA, demand a quality golf shot to find the greens. It is more than possible to rack up worse-than-bogey at these short holes as I've proved many times. Then consider Fraserburgh with the best par 3 in the North East, the 17th. The 5th and particularly the 7th - the Well - are awesome par 3's and the 14th is another demanding one. Moray has great par 3's too, on both the Old and the New and there is a massive variety in the par 3's at these traditional links courses, unlike 3, 13 and 16 at Trump.

 

You have to recognise that others do have different opinions from you. At least I can articulate my reasons to support my opinions. I'm not forcing them down your throat and I won't insult you for not sharing them. You are in the majority as in my experience, there's an 80/20 to 85/15 split between those who loved and raved about Trump and those who, like me, didn't care for it. Interestingly there is no middle ground in the opinions I've heard so far.

 

Just like most like Edzell and Ballater, I wouldn't ever choose to play either ever again. It's opinion, it's feel, it's turf, it's design, it's compatibility to the eye, it's ambience, it's enjoyablility, it's not an absolute set of criteria that determines that one is better than the other. I know exactly why I can't stand Edzell and Ballater and I know exactly why I prefer Kingsbarns to Trump but even KB doesn't come close to the St Andrews courses, Carnoustie, Lytham, Portrush, Turnberry's of this world for me.

 

Don't get so aggressive. I didn't fall in love with Trump's course for purely golfing reasons and personal preferences in particular. Just like the art of putting contains personal preferences (how much weight distribution to put on left side) and non-negotiable fundamentals (weight must be more on left than right - for right handers), my personal preference is never to visit Trump again, or more properly, never to visit it in the next two or three years and thereafter only if on an invite or corporate day and only if they bulldoze those stupid contours out of some of the greens.

 

I just dont get Edzell, I've eplayed it twice, both in in outings and I wouldnt pay to play it, and i doubt id play it again, the 1st time I played it I just thought I was being weird, the course just didnt suit my eye, but the 2nd time...I just dont like the course, some ok holes but not my cup of tea.

[diamondsr4ever]

Sarah Malone, executive vice president, Trump International Golf Links, said:

[diamondsr4ever]

Totally agree.

 

 

Good examples. I play the Old every year and have played it more than 250 times, have played Kingsbarns over 40 and have played Prestwick about half a dozen times. These are all very fine golf courses which are thoroughly enjoyable to play, every time we play them. Trump on a good day - and it was perfect weather when I played it - didn't hit my spot and it would be one boring slog in the usual wind and grey skies we get. You can breathe on the traditional links. You're hemmed in at Trump. The dunes compress but their relentlessness offers no release, in total breach of the principles of Frank Lloyd Wright, America's most eminent architect and one of it's most intelligent citizens in its short history.

 

Kings Barn is the best course I have ever played and I'd happily pay again for the pleasure, naturally I have an instinct to play trump but after watching that last night Im not sure if i would, actually im pretty sure I wouldnt.

 

Ive played castle stuart 3 times and though a nice course, not somewhere Id rush to pay to play, though a resisdents

[Dandyesque]

Watching the Trump documentary on STV right now made by the protesters and effectively they are just making a complete tit of themselves and their campaign.

 

I wasn't aware it was made by "protestors", but ratheer by "film-makers"?

 

Regardless, you appear to be pretty much the only person to have this belief, so maybe it says more about the viewer.....