Fergie

[rgudon]

When we lost to oxford 2-0 in 1986 it was clear that Fergie didn't have a clue about basic tactics. He's been riding his luck ever since, but was found out against Barca, and not a moment too soon I reackon.

 

The question is will the board have the balls to sack him or should he realise he's been found out and stand down with immediate effect?

 

The latter is probably wiser but as he might still be adored by some sections of our support, however it's clear that most reasonable supporters will never forgive him for the "Debacle of Rome".

 

Just read this post in redcafe, and worringly enough its not an isolated criticism, since im am in no position to comment on his time at Aberdeen, was this an observation by anybody that had the pleasure of being at pittodrie during his time here?

 

surely this was never a criticism levelled at Fergie during his Aberdeen days but seems to be a common criticism of him down their.

 

thoughts?

[Guest LondonScottish]

Just read this post in redcafe, and worringly enough its not an isolated criticism, since im am in no position to comment on his time at Aberdeen, was this an observation by anybody that had the pleasure of being at pittodrie during his time here?

 

surely this was never a criticism levelled at Fergie during his Aberdeen days but seems to be a common criticism of him down their.

 

thoughts?

 

 

What a sh1te post. (The Man Utd one). I find it amazing that United have an off night and crap like that comes out, yet how many times has he taken teams apart and won how many trophies. Where would Manchester Utd be without him?

[Sheeptastic]

Just read this post in redcafe, and worringly enough its not an isolated criticism, since im am in no position to comment on his time at Aberdeen, was this an observation by anybody that had the pleasure of being at pittodrie during his time here?

 

surely this was never a criticism levelled at Fergie during his Aberdeen days but seems to be a common criticism of him down their.

 

thoughts?

How can anyone suggest he has been riding his luck throughout his management career? I'm a fairly young Don but his success cannot be slated as 'luck'.

 

Also when you listen to how the majority of former and current players speak of him then it's evident that he knows how to organise and motivate his team.

 

The Man United fans are simply bitter that they were overturned by the better side in the CL Final. Fergie will undoubtedly rebuild and it wouldn't surprise me, providing he continued as manager over the next few years, if he did win the CL again.

[Guest the shepherd]

:confused: Some luck Alex Ferguson has been riding during his time at manchester united (11 league titles, etc...) . This is oh so typical of sh*te spoken and written by old firm supporters on a week-to-week basis during the league season up here who can't handle a defeat and take the easy option of calling for the manager's head (e.g. Gordon Strachan). The words "hunter " and "glory" spring to mind when reading this article and summing up who wrote it. If they can't handle a defeat they should may be take up some other sport/pastime to pass their days away such as croquet.

[Jaws]

Never heard such nonsense in my life. He wins them trophy after trophy, then loses to an unbelievably good Barca team then the guy says he was found out? Granted Fergie got his team selection wrong, i'm sure he'll admit that but to say he should be sacked is just ridiculous. He's just won the Premiership AGAIN for christ sake!

[Mouse]

Don't know what they will do without him when he retires

[K-9]

Tactically inept?

 

Couldn't be further from the truth. But if Ronaldo goes Man Utd are in trouble with their current squad with many ageing players and will struggle next season in my opinion. Now would be perfect time for Fergie to "move upstairs"

[Old Wing Stand]

Probably posted by some glory hunting twat whos never been in Manchester, would love it if Sir Alex was to retire see who they would get to fill his shoes I would say nobody.

[Guest SS RED]

Probably posted by some glory hunting twat whos never been in Manchester, would love it if Sir Alex was to retire see who they would get to fill his shoes I would say nobody.

 

 

Reckon it would be Moyes.

[Sonoftherock]

That initial post is one of the most stupid things I've ever read.

 

Anyone with an ounce of grey matter would realise that to achieve what Alex Ferguson has, over such a considerable period of time, requires an incredible depth of knowledge and ability.

 

Bad games happen, thats life, footballers and managers are only human. Barcelona are a great team, and out played United on the night.

[Walt Flanagan's Dog]

surely that post is a pisstake?

 

I can accept a team having a good cup run, or a good run of results as someone "riding their luck"...not 23 years of success after success after success. Sure this wasn't a rival fan on the windup?

[TMSM]

Riding his luck towards countless league titles, domestic and European cups. Still not the current world club champions as well? Wish i had luck that lasted 20 years and to that severity. Seem to recall him being praised for his tactics and squad selection against Arsenal in the CL, then again it was probably just photos on a dart board which picked his team; some people.

[Guest SS RED]

Riding his luck towards countless league titles, domestic and European cups. Still not the current world club champions as well? Wish i had luck that lasted 20 years and to that severity. Seem to recall him being praised for his tactics and squad selection against Arsenal in the CL, then again it was probably just photos on a dart board which picked his team; some people.

 

30 years.

[darz1984]

What a pile of sh!te

 

Man Utd wouldnt be anywhere near where they are today without Fergie.

 

I have season tickets for Old Trafford, and have never heard of any bad feelings towards him there!

[Tord31]

Reckon it would be Moyes.

 

It should be Mourinho. I'd even develop a soft spot for Manure if they do get him. The guy is 100% class.

[Guest LondonScottish]

30 years.

 

 

?

[Tord31]

?

 

Sum total of Dons and Manure?

[Guest LondonScottish]

Sum total of Dons and Manure?

 

 

Sorry, I thought the thread was just about is time at Man Utd.

[vanderark14]

Some luck Alex Ferguson has been riding during his time at manchester united (11 league titles, etc...) . This is oh so typical of sh*te spoken and written by old firm supporters on a week-to-week basis during the league season up here who can't handle a defeat and take the easy option of calling for the manager's head (e.g. Gordon Strachan). The words "hunter " and "glory" spring to mind when reading this article and summing up who wrote it. If they can't handle a defeat they should may be take up some other sport/pastime to pass their days away such as croquet.

 

thats the whole problem Shep.

 

these fans are apoiled rotten with success and just expect it every year. they are arseholes.

 

the guy that wrote that post on red cafe is obviously in need of special care

[paddy]

I find it hilarious that the man u guy references a shitty little game in 1986 and claimes fergie has been riding his luck for 23 years. The guy must be on a fishing trip or just plain retarded.

[Bobby Connor]

It is a complete nonsense. His record, his achievements, his recruitment and disposal of players, his longevity - doing it with so many different teams and players prove he is the very best. ever. Personally, stopping the Mourinho juggernaut was his best achievement since 1983. How he did that was incredible.

 

Things do not last for ever. Ferguson may be at his end now. The Everton semi-final was a massive mistake and a mix of total disregard for the competition and unfounded arrogance.

 

Barcelona were much better prepared for that final, mentally. Pep had them properly motivated. There were stories of tears in their eyes minutes before KO after the 8 minute video. The frailty of confidence in Utd. was plain to see. When did we ever see players like Carrick, Vidic and Rio lack authority and basic competence? They didn't believe. Ferguson can not keep on motivating individuals decade after decade after decade. There comes a time when he is only able to get 98% out of them, then less again. 1% margin is the difference between failure and success. Fergie's incredible drive and ability to get the very best out of professional athletes is diminished, and will only head one way if he doesn't bow out soon with dignity.

 

I will always be in his debt for the greatest 24 hours of my life, and what he did for our club. Over 30 years, he proved to become the best manager in history of world football.

 

I've nothing more to add. That sums it up perfectly.

 

I would say Jimmy was getting 60-70% Out of our players so if that means less nonsense then it's perfect.

[Coopy100]

It is a complete nonsense. His record, his achievements, his recruitment and disposal of players, his longevity - doing it with so many different teams and players prove he is the very best. ever. Personally, stopping the Mourinho juggernaut was his best achievement since 1983. How he did that was incredible.

 

Things do not last for ever. Ferguson may be at his end now. The Everton semi-final was a massive mistake and a mix of total disregard for the competition and unfounded arrogance.

 

Barcelona were much better prepared for that final, mentally. Pep had them properly motivated. There were stories of tears in their eyes minutes before KO after the 8 minute video. The frailty of confidence in Utd. was plain to see. When did we ever see players like Carrick, Vidic and Rio lack authority and basic competence? They didn't believe. Ferguson can not keep on motivating individuals decade after decade after decade. There comes a time when he is only able to get 98% out of them, then less again. 1% margin is the difference between failure and success. Fergie's incredible drive and ability to get the very best out of professional athletes is diminished, and will only head one way if he doesn't bow out soon with dignity.

 

I will always be in his debt for the greatest 24 hours of my life, and what he did for our club. Over 30 years, he proved to become the best manager in history of world football.

I'll disagree with this. I don't think that these players come up against anyone as good as iniesta and xavi at ball retention and passing range in the premiership. Infact I don't think any team comes up against midfielders as good as these two week in week out anywhere in the world. They are quite simply phenomanol at the art of being central midfielders and were the main difference between man u and barca in the champions league final.

[tutankamun]

Fergie has lost to lesser teams than Barca many times.

 

Doesn't detract from the fact that he is an absolute genius of a manager. Whether he's the best ever is up for debate but he's definitely up there no doubt about it.

 

As for the Man U fan who posted this nonsense about him being found out etc. what a heap o' pish.

 

What was it Joni Mitchell said?

 

"you dont know what youve got 'till its gone"

[Coopy100]

That is your prerogative. But what is it that you disagree with exactly? I happen to agree that Xavi and Iniesta were awesome. As was Messi. As was Puyol, in fact the whole team Barca were fantastic. I called it during the match thread way before anyone else, and had written off Utd. by HT.

 

The point I was making with a number of examples and supporting opinion, was that Fergie's ability to get the best out of players has now, as of the end of this season, reached beyond the peak and that he will only head south now. Much as we agree on how good Barca were, the contributions of those two particularly having been acknowledged by any sports writer with eyes in their head, the thread is about SAF.

 

Do you disagree with my assessment that SAF will not rise again? that was the only point I was making. You have the prerogative to disagree, but rather than diversify on to a different topic, a reason for Man U's defeat that night - a reason I concur with entirely - I would be interested to hear your response with regard to the precise point being made.

The part I was disagreeing with was that no manager with the players that SAF had in midfield would have been able to stop xavi and iniesta that night. No matter how much he had them clued up or psyched up they were quite simply unstoppable. The most complete showing of a central midfield partnership I think I have ever seen. That was the point I was disagreeing with. Sod mentallity. They quite simply were outclassed. Happy with that description?

 

 

 

Yes he will make MAn U rise again. I think he has proven over the years that he is a stubborn man with a winning streak that cannot be denied. He does, however, need better central midfielders than he has at his disposal just now. He needs people that can hold the ball in europe and not win the ball like you need week in week out in england. If he had these then the outcome of the champions league final may have been different.

 

EDIT: Just wanted to know if this was going to be another one like the IRA isn't a terrorist organisation that you are not going to give a proper reply to?

[essex don]

so what some are saying is that despite winning the league, world club champions,( although thats just a exhibition match) champions league finalists and almost doing everton in the cup with teenagers he should leave.

some of you lot are on drugs, if not you should be.

 

yes he is getting on a bit, as are some of his team but i expect saf to come back hungrier next season.

how many doubters would put money on his team not being league champions or within say 5 points of them next season.

 

i rest my case

[Coopy100]

It was right to ask the question as regards what exactly it was you were disagreeing with. Your thinking is sloppy. We've had enough sloppy around Pittodrie for years without fans contributing.

 

I repeat. I agree with your point that they were outclassed, but my post was on a different subject, an opinion highlighting one of the fundamental reasons for the Utd. collapse in Roma.

 

 

 

 

Your simplistic statement is revealing. However, I'm pleased to note that you do finally understand what's going on and address the point, partially, and finally....

 

 

 

 

After 30 years at the top you think SAF will rise again. I don't. All things end. Finally, the point of disagreement is properly crystallised.

 

Then you add that his players aren't good enough. I agree. But who's responsibility is that? He's slipped and he's slipping. You contradict yourself at worst, or at best you offer reasons that he may not rise again. Sloppy. Very sloppy.

 

 

 

 

I did not give a further response on that matter as I found your inability to engage critical thinking and your lack of communication skills frightening.

 

 

EDIT: Will you now feel the overwhelming need to respond in roundabout terms, hackles risen, and offer more sloppiness? I fear that you will.

You really are just full o sh*t. There is no point trying to enter into a discussion with you. I shall however try one last time.

 

And I disagree with you that the mentality of the manchester untied players had anything to do with the way they played on the night of the champions league final. It had nothing to do with how well pep mentally prepared his team compared to how SAF mentally prepared his team. They just came up against a better side on this occasion. That is the point I highlighted in your original post and disagreed with. Happy with that description or will you just ignore it and go on a great big ramble of rubbish again? I realise we will not agree on this but can you see my point now with regards to the highlighted part of the original post?

[Oklahoma 1903]

Football being football guys if Barca hadn't sneeked that late winner at Stamford Bridge they wouldn't even have made the final and imo Utd would have beaten Chelsea then there would of been no need for this discussion and Sir AF would have still been the best with no doubters

Thats the great thing about football it always throws up things to talk about or dispute

It's a funny old game as someone once said

[nellie_boy]

The management and preparation of the Barca players was infinitely superior. This was a contributory factor in the game, and evidence that SAF will NOT rise again.

 

you don't think that SAF has the capabilities to live and learn anymore? really? is it the mental capability you doubt most or the hunger to so so?

 

you really feel on the back of one game, I know you mention Everton but that was a very different game altogether within a few days of the CL Final and it's not exactly like the 'kids' got humped, that he is so evidently flawed?

 

for me I've never necessarily felt he was a tactical genius of the type that can change games dramatically with a switch of formation or personel, moreso that he simply build phenomenal machines that play in a style and are too good for others to deal with - on this occasion Barca were more than good enough

[Oklahoma 1903]

No, not one game - see above. I don't even doubt his hunger. My point is that at 67 or whatever, he can not possibly deliver the same amount of passion and energy. He relied mostly on his motivational skills, as well as scouring the country for talent. He was a machine himself, a 85 hour a week machine. He can't do this any more, so his ability has been diminished. There are three generations almost between SAF, Fabio Capello and Pep Guardiola. The latter looks like a great prospect for the next couple of decades, whilst Capello will get the most out of England in 2010. These younger men are at the height of their powers in Fabio's case, and on a steep upward trend in Pep's. SAF can only go one way, and it aint up.

He will always be that young manager running onto the Easter Road pitch hands held aloft to me

[rgudon]

Tis indeed a fanny ol game but I think the 1 - Berbatov signing was a mistake, 2 - the FA Cup semi was a catastrophic error, his team selection in 3 - Rome to include Park was ridiculous, and he patently put out a team that did not believe that they could win. I have never seen a Fergie team capitulate like that ever. I don't think he has ever lost a European final. This unwanted first coincides with other evidence that the man has reached his zenith, and the only way from here is down. It defies nature to keep on rising. He won't because he can't. Age dimishes powers. His very ripe old age is inevitably going to diminish his ardour, his diligence, his passion and his energy. This reduction in his powers has been clear for a number of months. Everything comes to an end. Doesn't detract from what he's done. This is a discussion about what he might be capable of in the future. 4 - He has won his last trophy with the EPL 2008/09.

 

1 - possibly

 

2 - yes

 

3 - who would rocketo have picked instead?

 

4 - bold and bordering ridiculous prediction