Copenhagen: We Won The Battle, They've Won The War...

[Jocky Balboa]

If ever there was a sadder indictment on the underachievement of AFC in the last 16yrs, one need only look at the contrasting fortunes of ourselves and FC Copenhagen, who just this week graced Europe's big stage with a glamour tie against Chelski. While outclassed in the end, they can certainly hold their heads high, knowing that they have, as Tangoman said of our sole Euro "run" in said 16yr time period "punched above their weight".

 

The most damning indictment on our Board (and previous inept Managers appointed by them) is that while we enjoyed, at best, occasional outbursts of euphoric, short lived moments of gratification (never better personified by that night against Copenhagen) that very same team (along with Panathinaikos, who shared their CL group) has gone on to so visibly eclipse us in every way in the 3yrs that have passed since.

 

Just what is it that they have done right, that our Board have done so wrong, that has seen us drop the ball so damningly? Whereas we were a whisker away from splitting the OF in 2007 (we finished 7pts behind a Huns team there for the taking, whereas had we won that game at Pittodrie, the gap would have been a solitary point. Food for thought!) and the Euro "run" in 2008, it has been all downhill since, while through sheer hard work and determination, not to mention good leadership, Copenhagen are now leaving us Dandies wondering what might have been.

 

How sad...

[athenaeum]

Copenhagen are the Celtic/Rangers of Denmark

 

They buy the other teams better players as they have far more spending power

[Jaws]

It's a great achievement for them to have reached the last 16 but then it's a lot easier for a team like Copenhagen to qualify for the Champions League every year. It's a fairly weak league and they don't have Celtic and Rangers to compete with.

 

On the other hand we simply didn't replace the likes of Nicholson with players of equal quality, instead going for cheap rejects who weren't up to the job. When you consider what we've paid out in compensation to Calderwood, McGhee etc on top of the money lost through dwindling crowds it's been a massive error of judgement.

[NorthernLights24]

It's a great achievement for them to have reached the last 16 but then it's a lot easier for a team like Copenhagen to qualify for the Champions League every year. It's a fairly weak league and they don't have Celtic and Rangers to compete with.

 

On the other hand we simply didn't replace the likes of Nicholson with players of equal quality, instead going for cheap rejects who weren't up to the job. When you consider what we've paid out in compensation to Calderwood, McGhee etc on top of the money lost through dwindling crowds it's been a massive error of judgement.

 

Nail smacked on the head here.

[Donmacca]

Copenhagen had been in the champions league the season before and a few seasons before that, where as we felt we'd achived something just by being in the UEFA cup. I believe all the way through that we were the underdogs and JC was good at motivating the team in that situation (not as good when playing smaller teams though, but thats off topic). However that result and the 2-2 draw against Bayern should have gave the board an incentive to go on and build a squad that would quailfy for europe most seasons.

[madjockmcferson]

If ever there was a sadder indictment on the underachievement of AFC in the last 16yrs, one need only look at the contrasting fortunes of ourselves and FC Copenhagen, who just this week graced Europe's big stage with a glamour tie against Chelski. While outclassed in the end, they can certainly hold their heads high, knowing that they have, as Tangoman said of our sole Euro "run" in said 16yr time period "punched above their weight".

 

The most damning indictment on our Board (and previous inept Managers appointed by them) is that while we enjoyed, at best, occasional outbursts of euphoric, short lived moments of gratification (never better personified by that night against Copenhagen) that very same team (along with Panathinaikos, who shared their CL group) has gone on to so visibly eclipse us in every way in the 3yrs that have passed since.

 

Just what is it that they have done right, that our Board have done so wrong, that has seen us drop the ball so damningly? Whereas we were a whisker away from splitting the OF in 2007 (we finished 7pts behind a Huns team there for the taking, whereas had we won that game at Pittodrie, the gap would have been a solitary point. Food for thought!) and the Euro "run" in 2008, it has been all downhill since, while through sheer hard work and determination, not to mention good leadership, Copenhagen are now leaving us Dandies wondering what might have been.

 

How sad...

 

I find it sad you put the word "run" in quotation marks.....especially since it was our best run in Europe since the 1980s.

 

I also don't think it is reasonable to compare copenhagen and panathanoikos to us. These teams are the OF of their countries and have much more money and resources than we have.

 

What i find sad is the time to invest in the squad, and by that i mean keep our squad, was when we had this run. That it was allowed to be dismantled is depressing.....

[Nespa]

[Jaws]

I find it sad you put the word "run" in quotation marks.....especially since it was our best run in Europe since the 1980s.

 

I also don't think it is reasonable to compare copenhagen and panathanoikos to us. These teams are the OF of their countries and have much more money and resources than we have.

 

What i find sad is the time to invest in the squad, and by that i mean keep our squad, was when we had this run. That it was allowed to be dismantled is depressing.....

 

It makes me angry the shambles which has followed. I don't expect big money transfers, far from it, But this was the time to build a team capable of at least challenging for third every year. The money brought in from that run and the sales of the likes of Anderson, Nicholson, Clark and Hart simply weren't put towards able replacements. They went down the cheap route and failed miserably.

[Jocky Balboa]

I find it sad you put the word "run" in quotation marks.....especially since it was our best run in Europe since the 1980s.

 

I also don't think it is reasonable to compare copenhagen and panathanoikos to us. These teams are the OF of their countries and have much more money and resources than we have.

 

What i find sad is the time to invest in the squad, and by that i mean keep our squad, was when we had this run. That it was allowed to be dismantled is depressing.....

 

Thanks for reply, but here's my further food for thought:

 

Firstly, I put "run" in quotation marks, because it is up for debate just how valid it is to hold it up as a great achievement, enjoyable though it was. That is because while we had a few good results, the baffling UEFA system allowed us to progress as far as we did with only one win in eight. Secondly, it really has to be mentioned that, on balance, had this system been in place, we would have done the same or better under Alex Smith/Jocky Scott, Willie Miller or even Ebbe Skovdahl.

 

Secondly, it is a reasonable comparison, in that Brondby are the dominant Danish team and AEK Athens and Olympiakos the top dogs in Greece.

 

Thirdly, without disagreeing with your sentiments toward our then squad, it is true that certain players would inevitably chase the

[minijc]

Well yeah good post but again simple question.

 

My guess is that you would have liked for the board to invest ?

 

If that investment and risk didn't pay off we would then be a worse financial situation?

I thought at the time we should have went for the push with the investment, the old firm were rather poor, the chance to catc h them were there and the reward would have been a good one, however if it didn't work it would have knocked us in to more money trouble, however the way I view life is that you have to speculate to accumulate.

[madjockmcferson]

Thanks for reply, but here's my further food for thought:

 

Firstly, I put "run" in quotation marks, because it is up for debate just how valid it is to hold it up as a great achievement, enjoyable though it was. That is because while we had a few good results, the baffling UEFA system allowed us to progress as far as we did with only one win in eight. Secondly, it really has to be mentioned that, on balance, had this system been in place, we would have done the same or better under Alex Smith/Jocky Scott, Willie Miller or even Ebbe Skovdahl.

 

Secondly, it is a reasonable comparison, in that Brondby are the dominant Danish team and AEK Athens and Olympiakos the top dogs in Greece.

 

Thirdly, without disagreeing with your sentiments toward our then squad, it is true that certain players would inevitably chase the

[Jocky Balboa]

It might just be semantics but I don't think the achievement of our european run is up for debate. Given the quality of the group we were in there were no results which were controversial, it was infact predictable the group would end up as it did. This is what happens in tight groups where results are tight, and we should in no way feel ashamed of winning one game. We did fantastically well. We played against teams ranked way above us and competed with them. I wish people would get over themselves.

 

I agree about not replacing these players with equal or better quality but if we had invested ie paid more in wages then these players might have stayed. Im not in favor of spending for spendings sake but the time to spend money was the european run......

 

Firstly, I'm not personally taking umbrage with your views on the Euro run. I enjoyed it for what it was. What I am saying however, is that many see it as something it's not. As I said, it was a very enjoyable wee jaunt, nothing more. I'd have rather won a Cup that year. Maybe it's a generational thing, where the young ones who have never known a successful team see this as "success", but I stand by my point, in that had the rules been the same, we would have easily eclipsed this under previous managers (from 1989-92 and both '93 and '94, we'd have been in the CL as runners-up, had the 2008 rules applied back them. Go figure).

 

Second point is spot-on. There was no better time to invest than at that time, but they responded by signing *drum roll* Stuart Duff.

Sure, he was a grafter and a likeable guy, but did he strengthen the team in any discernible way? No, the only contract JC sorted out was his own. Again, go figure.

[tutankamun]

What really happened in Copenhagen anyway?

[madjockmcferson]

Firstly, I'm not personally taking umbrage with your views on the Euro run. I enjoyed it for what it was. What I am saying however, is that many see it as something it's not. As I said, it was a very enjoyable wee jaunt, nothing more. I'd have rather won a Cup that year. Maybe it's a generational thing, where the young ones who have never known a successful team see this as "success", but I stand by my point, in that had the rules been the same, we would have easily eclipsed this under previous managers (from 1989-92 and both '93 and '94, we'd have been in the CL as runners-up, had the 2008 rules applied back them. Go figure).

 

Second point is spot-on. There was no better time to invest than at that time, but they responded by signing *drum roll* Stuart Duff.

Sure, he was a grafter and a likeable guy, but did he strengthen the team in any discernible way? No, the only contract JC sorted out was his own. Again, go figure.

 

Yeah, ill give you that. Id have a rather won a cup and we probably would have achieved more had the uefa cup rules changed sooner.

[bobb4you]

we were a whisker away from splitting the OF in 2007

 

I really hate this expression.

[Jazzer_Bett]

Pointless comparison Jocky - FCK are like PSG, run by rich businessman who throw cash at the club - they are hated in Denmark for this, kind of a Chelsea situation.

 

AFC isn't run that way, and we don't have that kind of cash. Gronkjaer is apparantly on

[minijc]

well, if they didnt sack their manager who masterminded a 4-0 win did they?

 

couldnt help

For all we know we could have been in a worse position had it not happened.

[fine-n-dandy]

well, if they didnt sack their manager who masterminded a 4-0 win did they?

 

couldnt help

 

While he done well I don't think the game as it went was his plan (if it was he'd have played Smith in that position whenever fit) he got lucky that Smith 'MASTERCLASSED' the game

[fine-n-dandy]

In all honesty I'd give Calderwood more credit for his achievments over the two legs against Dnipro than the 4 - 0 hiding Smith gave Copehagen

[Jocky Balboa]

Pointless comparison Jocky - FCK are like PSG, run by rich businessman who throw cash at the club - they are hated in Denmark for this, kind of a Chelsea situation.

 

AFC isn't run that way, and we don't have that kind of cash. Gronkjaer is apparantly on

[madjockmcferson]

I don't see the comparison as "pointless" when, money or not, they succumbed to a 4-0 thumping from us, which should have given us the impetus to go onwards and upwards. Instead, the Manager at the time spoke in tones of "the wee Euro adventure was fun, BUT...etc. etc." with no aspirations of repeating or bettering it. This attitude of accepting mediocrity and belittling fans who had ambitions above said mediocrity was endemic throughout the Club, from playing staff all the way up to the top, including the Club's Greatest-ever Player . Put simply, we dropped the ball BIG TIME and have been in freefall ever since.

 

Dont think you can blame the manager. I mean, he was constantly being told his budget was limited and he had to get rid of players and reduce the wage bill. Imagine if you achieved things at your work but were told to reduce the size of your team and get in inferior replacements. Now im not suggesting calderwood was entirely blameless, but i am suggesting that why should he increase expectations or say he expects us to do the same when he was continuously having the rug pulled from under his feet.

 

As you say, and as i have always said, the board ought to have backed the manager at this point and given him the money to keep the players we had.....we allowed our best squad since the cup winning team of 1995 to be broken up...and, as you point out, it has been downhill ever since.....

[Jocky Balboa]

Dont think you can blame the manager. I mean, he was constantly being told his budget was limited and he had to get rid of players and reduce the wage bill. Imagine if you achieved things at your work but were told to reduce the size of your team and get in inferior replacements. Now im not suggesting calderwood was entirely blameless, but i am suggesting that why should he increase expectations or say he expects us to do the same when he was continuously having the rug pulled from under his feet.

 

As you say, and as i have always said, the board ought to have backed the manager at this point and given him the money to keep the players we had.....we allowed our best squad since the cup winning team of 1995 to be broken up...and, as you point out, it has been downhill ever since.....

 

The thing is though, JC had by then demonstrated that he would not and indeed COULD NOT take us any further, which is why it is a mystery to me that the Board allowed his contract saga to drag on, when in fact he should never have been offered that 3yr extension in the 1st place. Sure, we should take care of no.1, but he dragged his heels and by the time he signed it, it was too late to make any meaningful changes to the team.

 

In this regard, I think both Manager and Board were culpable. The former in that he pissed about and neglected team affairs, the latter for offering him such rich pickings (the likes of which he'll never see again) in the first place.