The Effort Debate

[barassie_afc]

Nearly every thread on our team seems to contain the line, aye he is sh*te but he gies 100% effort like min. We need to stop this fallacy, define effort ? Is effort concentrating for 90 minutes and reducing silly mistakes, is effort trying hard to make space and trying to find a red shirt, is effort getting into the gym and becoming stronger?

Or does effort mean for many on here that the player runs about like the downs kids on sesame street and we take pity on them (no offence meant but its a good comparison) .

 

Every player tries , yet we seem to be blinkered by those that run aimlessly for 90 minutes contributing nothing more than using more oxygen than a team mate next to them, it appears to me things have became so low that we are now confusing this with ability.

 

I remember a senior manager once said to me when we were assessing staff : " you are confusing operational ability (effort) with talent, that is dangerous"..........

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2WrNV4llOA

[barassie_afc]

Brilliant line.

 

No idea what the f**k that clip was and how it related.

 

I even gave it my maximum operational ability in an effort to try and find the correlation, only to find that my brain doesn't have the talent to spot it.

 

the clip is the sesame street kids running about aimlessly

[K-9]

Effort certainly shouldn't be a discussion as it should be a basic requirement for a top professional player. Sadly at AFC it most certainly is a discussion.

 

Lets hope we get decent players in who do give the required effort (as a minimum) so the discussions can stop.

[oilcat]

Thats why I laugh at Charlies post match assessments in the EE

 

"Tried Hard", "Gave His All" or "Did his Bit" FFS these should be the MINIMUM qualities of an primary school player never mind one for AFC

[Stoneybloke]

I think the effort issue is related to the last stages of McGhee's tenure, when it was painfully obvious that there were some individuals whose commitment at that time was highly questionable. When Brown and Knox came in, there seemed to be a noticeable change in attitude, which started to give us some hope.

 

There have always been players who have compensated somewhat for their skill deficiencies with a high level of effort and commitment. There is no substitute for skill, but even that must be supplemented by effort as well. Look at Aluko for example, he is now playing for a full 90 minutes.

[K-9]

Aluko hid most of the game yesterday after he got kicked by Imrie. Even Gary McDonald was seen more!!

[BigSmokeDon]

" you are confusing operational ability (effort) with talent, that is dangerous"..........

 

 

 

Sounds like a man convinced of his own "talent" due to his senior staus!

 

The truth of the matter is that those people who have achieved a level of ability through hard work are better and will achieve more than those who have reached the same level with "talent" without applying themselves in order to attain it.

 

I have known an dplayed with many a footballer who is seen by some as "talented" but their effectiveness was tiny compared top those who applied themselves by working hard in a smart way.

 

Unfortunately i don't see many players in teh Aberdeen side who have both a modicum of talent and a work ethic.

I like Mackie as he loves the Dons and works hard, he is not a great striker.

I like Aluko as he has fantastic displays of flair that can light up a game, he is not a great player however as he does not have the work ethic.

 

The bottom line is the Dons need to find a decent balance in the squad of talent and workrate.

I do not believe that those who say: get rid of Langfield, Howard, Considine, Diamond, MacNamee, Jack, Hartley, Magennis, Mackie, Young, Aluko, Maguire, Paton, Vujadinovic, Blackman etc as they are "pish" or "a tim" are being very realistic as we would need to buy another 15 players to replace them, none of which you would be happy with.

 

The simple fact has not changed since Calderwood had less money to spend and we started going down the tubes:

we have no money, so we have to settle for less than the best and will need to have a manager who can encourage a work ethic and be a wheeler dealer in the transfer market, but he cannot make wholesale changes. Let's hope Craig Brown is that man because McGhee certainly wasn't.

[madjockmcferson]

Nearly every thread on our team seems to contain the line, aye he is sh*te but he gies 100% effort like min. We need to stop this fallacy, define effort ? Is effort concentrating for 90 minutes and reducing silly mistakes, is effort trying hard to make space and trying to find a red shirt, is effort getting into the gym and becoming stronger?

Or does effort mean for many on here that the player runs about like the downs kids on sesame street and we take pity on them (no offence meant but its a good comparison) .

 

Every player tries , yet we seem to be blinkered by those that run aimlessly for 90 minutes contributing nothing more than using more oxygen than a team mate next to them, it appears to me things have became so low that we are now confusing this with ability.

 

I remember a senior manager once said to me when we were assessing staff : " you are confusing operational ability (effort) with talent, that is dangerous"..........

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2WrNV4llOA

 

I've made this point a million times. Our players could give 100% effort and still lose. 'Effort' however you define it is a fall back option you cling onto when your team is pish...like ours. 'Effort' might have a small effect on a games outcome but talent is the major determinant of a result most of the time.

[The Oxford Don]

Players who combine talent AND application are probably (sadly) way out of our league given the cash constraints at the club. Which is why we end up with try-hard no-marks like Mackie, and talented wastrels, like Aluko. sh*te state of affairs but there it is.

[K-9]

I've made this point a million times. Our players could give 100% effort and still lose. 'Effort' however you define it is a fall back option you cling onto when your team is pish...like ours. 'Effort' might have a small effect on a games outcome but talent is the major determinant of a result most of the time.

Without effort, talent is nothing!!

[StandFree1982]

Just need to look at a team like Barcelona and Manchester United to see that you need talent AND effort. Players are constantly trying to find space and looking for the ball. When Barcelona lose the ball they battle straight away to get the ball back.

 

You can't have one without the other:

 

Aluko - Talent but has shown he lacks the effort a lot of the time

Mackie / Young - 100% effort, no talent!

 

Sometimes i'd rather have a player who shows effort but doesnt have the same talent, than have someone standing around doing f**k all because he knows he is good but just cant be arsed applying themselves!

[madjockmcferson]

Without effort, talent is nothing!!

 

Without talent, effort is just running around. Of-course you need to have both but there are too many Scottish players and fans who think running around is an excuse for being sh*te.

[K-9]

Without talent, effort is just running around. Of-course you need to have both but there are too many Scottish players and fans who think running around is an excuse for being sh*te.

Make up your mind!!

[Dandyesque]

In Scottish Football, effort is a pre-requisite.

 

Talent is not.

 

The speed at which the game is played is a massive contribution to this - or it is the result - it is hard to be sure which.

 

One thing is for sure, when we were good, the game was a lot slower.

[madjockmcferson]

Make up your mind!!

 

Er..what?

 

AFC Chat appears to be the only forum where you have to take an extreme position or no position. I said that talent will be the major determinant of results on the pitch. I then make a point about you needing both. I would have thought that much was obvious - you need both, do i really need to make that clear?