The Very Least I Expect From Brown

[Stoney]

To withdraw any contract offers that are currently on the table.

 

A statement of intent, that losers will no longer be tolerated.

[Foster14]

Don't be stupid now. Statements of intent are not more valuable just now than a potential

[OddJob]

Don't be stupid now. Statements of intent are not more valuable just now than a potential

[Stoney]

We still get that money regardless of the contract offers being withdrawn, we fufilled our bargain by putting offers on the table and setting a limit to sign them (which has passed 5 times now)

[Foster14]

True, but that certainly doesn't stop him taking Clangers' contract away from him though.

 

I was told Clangers chucked his gloves and top in to the crowd at the end from someone who stayed in the Main Stand longer than I stayed in the RDS. To me that sounds like he is going and on that basis I would assume the offer was based reduced terms as a back-up keeper.

 

Anyhoo, pretty sure Knox said it would be more apparent who was going and who was staying come th end of the week. I guess deals in place by then will only be for Aluko and Maguire for the sake of possible compensation.

[OddJob]

We still get that money regardless of the contract offers being withdrawn, we fufilled our bargain by putting offers on the table and setting a limit to sign them (which has passed 5 times now)

Do we?

[Foster14]

We still get that money regardless of the contract offers being withdrawn, we fufilled our bargain by putting offers on the table and setting a limit to sign them (which has passed 5 times now)

 

Absolute rubbish. Our end of the bargain will be having the contract offer in place the day their current contract runs out. They have no reason to sign another one before that.

[Stoney]

Absolute rubbish. Our end of the bargain will be having the contract offer in place the day their current contract runs out. They have no reason to sign another one before that.

 

False, all we had to do is make the offer, maguire, aluko and langfield have all rejected the first offer made from the club, thats all the club has to do. They made the offer it was rejected................Simples.

[OddJob]

False, all we had to do is make the offer, maguire, aluko and langfield have all rejected the first offer made from the club, thats all the club has to do. They made the offer it was rejected................Simples.

Fair enough, must admit i never knew that. Oh well possible suitors could you please just take these c**ts off our hands thank you.

[Foster14]

It isn't though. An offer at least matching their current terms has to be on offer till the end of the transfer window.

 

The relevance to Langers to my point, I don't know, he isn't relevant for compensation.

 

The only point a player would have to sign a new contract is at he end of his current contract. For the rules to be applied properly, that means the contract offer matching the current terms would have to be in place till then. Alternate contract offers could be put forward, negotiated and rejected as many times before that if that was the wish of either party.

[Stoney]

why do people feel the need to tell lies to back up their points

 

Article 2 - Training Compensation

 

 

1. Domestic Training compensation shall be payable for training and education between the ages of 12 and 23. Training compensation shall be payable up to the age of 23 for training incurred up to the age of 21, unless it is evident that a player has already terminated his training period before the age of 21. In the latter case, Training Compensation shall be payable until the end of the Season in which the player reaches the age of 23, but the calculation of the amount payable shall be based on the years between 12 and the age when it is established that the player actually completed his training.

 

2. The obligation to pay Training Compensation is without prejudice to any obligation to pay compensation for breach of contract.

 

Article 3 - Payment of Training Compensation

 

1. Training Compensation is only due when a player is registered for the first time as a Professional before the end of the Season of his 23rd birthday.

 

2. The payment is due within 30 days of the player signing as a professional and is payable up to the end of the season of his 23rd birthday. The final season of this training may occur before the season in which the player had his 21st birthday if it is established that the player completed his training before that time.

[Stoney]

And i have even more good news, there is no set fee for training compensation, it is to be negotiated between the two clubs.

 

So whats he actually worth in todays market 100K being generous

[Foster14]

why do people feel the need to tell lies to back up their points

 

Article 2 - Training Compensation

 

 

1. Domestic Training compensation shall be payable for training and education between the ages of 12 and 23. Training compensation shall be payable up to the age of 23 for training incurred up to the age of 21, unless it is evident that a player has already terminated his training period before the age of 21. In the latter case, Training Compensation shall be payable until the end of the Season in which the player reaches the age of 23, but the calculation of the amount payable shall be based on the years between 12 and the age when it is established that the player actually completed his training.

 

2. The obligation to pay Training Compensation is without prejudice to any obligation to pay compensation for breach of contract.

 

Article 3 - Payment of Training Compensation

 

1. Training Compensation is only due when a player is registered for the first time as a Professional before the end of the Season of his 23rd birthday.

 

2. The payment is due within 30 days of the player signing as a professional and is payable up to the end of the season of his 23rd birthday. The final season of this training may occur before the season in which the player had his 21st birthday if it is established that the player completed his training before that time.

 

Where did you get that snippet from?

 

Here?

 

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=87&Itemid=101

 

I cannot find it elsewhere. I see it is based on FIFA rules anyhoo.

 

I find your highlighted rules interesting anyway, firstly because it uses domestic regularly, when the rule that we'd be entitled to compensation for Maguire moving to England is quite clearly not domestic, and secondly, it does not mention anything to do with contract offers.

[Stoney]

It is from that site, but word for word what it says on another site that i cant copy and paste because my laptop is garbage i think its a link to the FA page which i found on another forum.

 

Im not exactly sure where this contract thing has come from as its not on any site that i have looked at in the past half hour, there is no rule for the playing moving domestically if he leaves we get compo regardless of where he moves to. According to the official bosman law which again is what i posted word for word

[Foster14]

And i have even more good news, there is no set fee for training compensation, it is to be negotiated between the two clubs.

 

So whats he actually worth in todays market 100K being generous

 

There is no set fee, of course not. But there is a basis for working out what should be payable (hence Brown's statement of the max we would get) and anything around that would need to be negotiated. If it cannot be agreed, it would go to tribunal, which lo and behold, will usually go to a decision based on that above.

 

All based on years in training, related costs and so on. Not set, but we can use it to maximise a return, or more likely, we will use it to block a move away as Brown seems to want to keep him and no-one seems to want to pay it.

[Foster14]

It is from that site, but word for word what it says on another site that i cant copy and paste because my laptop is garbage i think its a link to the FA page which i found on another forum.

 

Im not exactly sure where this contract thing has come from as its not on any site that i have looked at in the past half hour, there is no rule for the playing moving domestically if he leaves we get compo regardless of where he moves to. According to the official bosman law which again is what i posted word for word

 

The point on the contract is basic fundamentals though. If we don't want to keep a player, we are not entitled to compensation. The minimum way of showing that you want to keep a player is by having a contract of equivalent terms as before. If we offer any deal to a player, whether it be greater terms or equivalent terms before the end of their contract and they reject it, it may be due to the length of time till the end of their contract, other uncertainties about committing, or whatever. The only way you can prove that you were wanting to keep a player beyond the end of their contract at the end of their contract is by having at least a deal of equivalent terms on the table then.

 

Otherwise surely a player can just say that the club offered me something I rejected it as I was not prepared to take a new deal at the time, there was nothing on the table come the end of my contract and when I discuss it further they were unwilling to offer anything. How could a club justify requesting compensation in that situation?

 

It is simple common sense, not something that has to be written in the rules anywhere.

[Foster14]

ABSOLUTE steve tosh

 

Forgot to reply to that bit.

 

Country to country, the domestic rule is different. In Scotland and England, it is 24. Cross border, it is 23. Ireland, it is apparently 23 also.

 

Joe Ledley would have earned

[K-9]

The point on the contract is basic fundamentals though. If we don't want to keep a player, we are not entitled to compensation. The minimum way of showing that you want to keep a player is by having a contract of equivalent terms as before. If we offer any deal to a player, whether it be greater terms or equivalent terms before the end of their contract and they reject it, it may be due to the length of time till the end of their contract, other uncertainties about committing, or whatever. The only way you can prove that you were wanting to keep a player beyond the end of their contract at the end of their contract is by having at least a deal of equivalent terms on the table then.

 

Otherwise surely a player can just say that the club offered me something I rejected it as I was not prepared to take a new deal at the time, there was nothing on the table come the end of my contract and when I discuss it further they were unwilling to offer anything. How could a club justify requesting compensation in that situation?

 

It is simple common sense, not something that has to be written in the rules anywhere.

Just cannot agree with that. Make offer early and if player doesn't sign it then it should be removed and new players sourced. Allowing players to dick clubs about til end of June not allowing them to go out and source possible replacements to sign come July 1st just doesn't make sense at all.

[K-9]

From what i am reading there is no set amount we will get if Maguire moves down south. Depends on where he goes. If he signs for lower league team the compensation due is much lower it seems:

 

Article 6 Special Provisions for the EU/EEA

1. For players moving from one Association to another inside the territory of the EU/EEA, the amount of Training Compensation payable shall be established based on the following:

a) If the player moves from a lower to a higher category club, the calculation shall be based on the average of the training costs of the two clubs.

 

b) If the player moves from a higher to a lower category, the calculation shall be based on the training costs of the lower category club.

[Foster14]

Just cannot agree with that. Make offer early and if player doesn't sign it then it should be removed and new players sourced. Allowing players to dick clubs about til end of June not allowing them to go out and source possible replacements to sign come July 1st just doesn't make sense at all.

 

It does if you want compensation. You can't really justify requesting it unless you showed a willingness to keep the player at the club at the end of his contract. How can you go to a tribunal and say that at the point he left there wasn't a contract offer of equivalent value of his old terms minimum when he signed a contract elsewhere? Because he rejected earlier deals doesn't prove anything legally as the only time a player would have to extend his contract is at the end of his current one.

 

Basically, from the moment any player can talk to other teams that contract should be available to sign till the moment he goes. With Maguire I guess some might see the risk that he may sign it, but if we are talking terms based on his contract 3 years ago, but if you want compensation, that will be needed.

[K-9]

3. If the Former Club does not offer the player a contract, no Training Compensation is payable unless the Former Club can justify that it is entitled to such compensation. The Former Club must offer the player a contract in writing via registered mail at least 60 days before the expiry of his current contract. Such an offer shall furthermore be at least of an equivalent value to the current contract. This provision is without prejudice to the rights to Training Compensation of the player

[Foster14]

From what i am reading there is no set amount we will get if Maguire moves down south. Depends on where he goes. If he signs for lower league team the compensation due is much lower it seems:

 

Article 6 Special Provisions for the EU/EEA

1. For players moving from one Association to another inside the territory of the EU/EEA, the amount of Training Compensation payable shall be established based on the following:

a) If the player moves from a lower to a higher category club, the calculation shall be based on the average of the training costs of the two clubs.

 

b) If the player moves from a higher to a lower category, the calculation shall be based on the training costs of the lower category club.

 

What are classed as lower and higher category clubs? Anyhoo, I'd assume training costs top end League 1 and higher would be equivalent to ours, and top end league 2 to mid-upper league 1 would generally be on a par, depending on size of club. Unless, he is going well down the leagues (again, some will say his level) then I don't think there is a danger of a low compensation cost.

[Foster14]

3. If the Former Club does not offer the player a contract, no Training Compensation is payable unless the Former Club can justify that it is entitled to such compensation. The Former Club must offer the player a contract in writing via registered mail at least 60 days before the expiry of his current contract. Such an offer shall furthermore be at least of an equivalent value to the current contract. This provision is without prejudice to the rights to Training Compensation of the player

[K-9]

What are classed as lower and higher category clubs? Anyhoo, I'd assume training costs top end League 1 and higher would be equivalent to ours, and top end league 2 to mid-upper league 1 would generally be on a par, depending on size of club. Unless, he is going well down the leagues (again, some will say his level) then I don't think there is a danger of a low compensation cost.

Found the SFA document for this. Grades are in there. See attachment file (Word doc)

 

[K-9]

Alright, so Aberdeen have Maguire, don't really want to keep him but want to ensure compensation that they could be entitled to. Contract goes out 61 days left of contract, taken back 2 days later. You genuinely think there is a leg to stand on.

 

I genuinely really don't get how anyone could think that if the contract was gone before the end of his deal, how we could even begin to justify compensation. It goes to tribunal. The player only needs to turn round and say he would have signed the deal on the last day at that amount but the contract offer was not there. The club had no offer there. Where is the leg to stand on. Even if bigger deals were on the table before, the player can just say that he wanted to consider other offers, his future whatever else, but had come to a decision to stay after considering it. No deal was there, he had to make do with a deal elsewhere.

 

Just the basics of contract law in my opinion.

No - that would be just stupid. But more than reasonable would AFC making offer in February and giving player 6 weeks to decide. There is obviously a reason for the offer having to be at least 60 days before end of contract.

[Monkey]

Calculated compensation we would be due a while ago and whilst I am prepared I might be wrong I ended up with the following....

It's all to do with the "training" rankings of the club the player leaves and the ranking of the club he joins and is worked out on a certain amount per year that the player was at the club. Worked it out when bored one day at work around Christmas time. Lost the figures but think max amount of about 420k if he goes to a Prem league side, 300k if championship and about 150-200k if lower league than that. The info is in documents that can be found on the FIFA website if anyone else can be bothered looking.

[onlyjim]

This is all a bit too much for my brickie brain.

Think i will just assume that Mr Brown knows what he is talking about.

[Foster14]

This is all a bit too much for my brickie brain.

Think i will just assume that Mr Brown knows what he is talking about.

 

More than anything else, I think the contract offers will remain as I think Brown would quite happily keep both at a reasonable wage.

[RUL]

Haven't got a clue about the above, are the rules not in FM?

[RTYD]

True, but that certainly doesn't stop him taking Clangers' contract away from him though.

 

 

There should never have been an offer made to that clown in the first place.