Fyvie

[Ke1t]

Given AFC is pretty much incapable of progressing players from promising youngster to valuable first team asset, one or two recent examples aside, what do you reckon is the best course of action with Fyvie and, maybe to a lesser extent, Pawlett?

 

Should we try to hold onto them for as long as possible, until they stagnate and end up going for next to nothing, or should we cash in on them when they're still young and have the potential to develop at a club that IS capable of progressing players?

 

Fyvie's being touted at a million quid, which for a club like Aberdeen is an absolute fortune... though that million quid would probably more like, what, 500k in real money? Granted he could, one day, be worth ten times that.... but just not at Aberdeen.

 

 

I suppose it's a sort of stick or twist scenario, though the odds are heavily stacked that if we twist we'll bust and end up with a Fyvie who's worth feck all.

 

We should also factor in that of that 'million' quid the playing side would see exactly jack and sh*t.

 

Maybe I've answered my own question, in that case.

 

Lose him later for nothing (since none of his development fee would ever see the light of day) or lose him now for nothing (since none of his transfer fee would ever see the light of day).

[HughMungus]

Given AFC is pretty much incapable of progressing players from promising youngster to valuable first team asset, one or two recent examples aside, what do you reckon is the best course of action with Fyvie and, maybe to a lesser extent, Pawlett?

 

Should we try to hold onto them for as long as possible, until they stagnate and end up going for next to nothing, or should we cash in on them when they're still young and have the potential to develop at a club that IS capable of progressing players?

 

Fyvie's being touted at a million quid, which for a club like Aberdeen is an absolute fortune... though that million quid would probably more like, what, 500k in real money? Granted he could, one day, be worth ten times that.... but just not at Aberdeen.

 

 

I suppose it's a sort of stick or twist scenario, though the odds are heavily stacked that if we twist we'll bust and end up with a Fyvie who's worth feck all.

 

We should also factor in that of that 'million' quid the playing side would see exactly jack and sh*t.

 

Maybe I've answered my own question, in that case.

 

Lose him later for nothing (since none of his development fee would ever see the light of day) or lose him now for nothing (since none of his transfer fee would ever see the light of day).

Good question Ke1lt min..so good that it's impossible to answer..There's a plethora of young talent out there...some make the grade some don't..maybe's aye maybe's no...

 

I'm a great fan of peter Pawlett and I hope we're wrong that his legs are made out of Kit-kats...

 

I watched the "turkey shoot " at Inverurie and thought that Fraser Fyvie looked full of talent, but perhaps a bit show-boatie...

 

I suspect all these things will be being debated in the upper echelons at the Pitt..

 

You'll get a better answer in a year's time...

 

Anyone for Andy Bagshaw?

[Ke1t]

Good question Ke1lt min..so good that it's impossible to answer..There's a plethora of young talent out there...some make the grade some don't..maybe's aye maybe's no...

 

I'm a great fan of peter Pawlett and I hope we're wrong that his legs are made out of Kit-kats...

 

I watched the "turkey shoot " at Inverurie and thought that Fraser Fyvie looked full of talent, but perhaps a bit show-boatie...

 

I suspect all these things will be being debated in the upper echelons at the Pitt..

 

You'll get a better answer in a year's time...

 

Anyone for Andy Bagshaw?

 

I'm think Zander Diamond and Kevin McNaughton in particular, both touted for big money moves as promising youngsters.... we hold on to them, can't develop them for sh*t, and end up with burned out liabilities worth feck all.

 

Should have taken the money when it was offered.

 

I just don't see us developing Fyvie or Pawlett either, so when someone steps up and flashes a big old wad of cash we should be grabbing it while the getting's good.

 

We hold onto them much longer and we more than likely end up with the new Derek Young and Chris Clark. No-one benefits. We make no money, the players pretty much condemn their careers to playing for us then Peterheid.

 

But we sell them for the silly money when it's offered and everyone wins.... well, the players do because anyone with a million quid to splash on youngsters almost certainly has the facilities to develop them, unlike AFC... and any cash we bring in can go towards the vast black hole we call our debt.

 

And again, the "They could be worth 5 million quid in a few years" argument won't fly, because at Aberdeen.. they'll never be worth 5 million quid.

[Tord31]

I'm always of view that any realistic offer for any player at afc should be accepted in current situation. Could be different when more stable in new stadium

[Jazzer_Bett]

Don't agree that he can't be worth top dollar whilst at AFC-look at the silly money the English twats pay for kids with potential?

 

 

[sooth_stander]

I'm always of view that any realistic offer for any player at afc should be accepted in current situation. Could be different when more stable in new stadium

 

I'm usually of the same thought but given that (I think) both PP and FF have 2 years left on their contracts, I'd bide our time a wee bit (even 6 months) and see what transpires. Given PP is a year or two older than FF, this is a massive season for him, but the signs so far this pre-season are encouraging, and he could well end up the more highly prized asset of the two.

 

The good thing is that we do seem to have other youngsters pushing through behind them, so even if we do sell, with the benefit of hindsight, too early and too cheaply, at least we have ready made replacements that we can hopefully sell on too somewhere down the line.

[buzz15afc]

think we have to see how this season goes, serious injury last year, but i think keep a hold of him this year, hope that he has an injury free season with a good number of 1st team games under his belt and i reckon we could get 2/3 million next year for him, and hopefully with add ons we could make money after an english team fully develops him,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,saying that there cant be many better managers in this country that could develop him better than broon/knox

[aberdeenstu]

McNaughton went on to pretty good things did he not? Almost in the EPL this year, never know where you could go if you have a decent season there(Charlie Adam)??

[Ke1t]

McNaughton went on to pretty good things did he not? Almost in the EPL this year, never know where you could go if you have a decent season there(Charlie Adam)??

 

McNaughton actually went on to play at a pretty decent level, arguably better than the level he had been with Aberdeen, and he did/is doing very well by most accounts.

 

And that's my point.

 

At Aberdeen he had been one of these bright young prospects who was touted to be a star of the future, but when he broke through he suddenly stopped progressing. He stagnated, and eventually left with a collective 'meh'. We just weren't able to progress him to the next level. We had taken yet another bright prospect and turned him into... nothing.

 

Then he went to Cardiff, and I believe last season he was their player of the year. So he wasn't sh*t, he just wasn't developing... like so many other players at Aberdeen.

[madjockmcferson]

If players don't make it at 'a higher level' its their fault, not Aberdeen's.

 

If we get a decent offer for any player we should accept it. We are skint, we need the money. That isn't defeatist....thats reality.

[tommo1903]

I'm happy for them to go to some diddy club like Derby for 1 million, providing we get a 50% sell on clause.

[seanthesheep]

Can someone please explain to me what "Developing" a player entails. Now I may be stupid but as far as im concerned players like Peter Pawlett, Fraser Fyvie etc will have been playing football for at least 10 years. It's not rocket science to play the game. !So What is Developing?

[AberdeenHammersUnited]

I think WE the fans have a part to play in the development and the price we sell a player for also. If we're cheering and supporting the team instead of constantly booing and getting on their backs then they are a happy player who can't wait to put the AFC shirt on and perform in a game or try harder in training trying new things out etc to please us and keep us happy, thus getting noticed outside of the SPL etc and be in a position to negotiate a higher fee by saying well we need x amount to replace this player.

 

If we're on their backs then they will be just happy to put the minimum effort required, see out their contract and move for nothing or a small fee and not be in a strong negotiating position at all as the buying club know that he can't wait to get out the club! I know it shouldn't be like this but unfortunately it is now in the modern era of football.

[ollie1903]

If players don't make it at 'a higher level' its their fault, not Aberdeen's.

 

If we get a decent offer for any player we should accept it. We are skint, we need the money. That isn't defeatist....thats reality.

 

There's also an element of luck involved too, but you are pretty much spot on the money with that

[StandFree1982]

There's also an element of luck involved too, but you are pretty much spot on the money with that

Luck does play a major factor in this. Man U had a whole heap of excellent players coming through at the same time, your Giggs n Beckhams etc. But even they haven't be able to produce this amount of great players coming through. Hibs had a season or two of producing loads of players and selling for big, which has halted. We've had our share of players, our problem is that we are pish at being able to see the value of these players and being able to sell them for their worth.

 

Obviously scouts need to have a keen eye on potential, but a lot of this is down to luck as potential is very rarely fulfilled.

[Dynamo]

Given AFC is pretty much incapable of progressing players from promising youngster to valuable first team asset, one or two recent examples aside, what do you reckon is the best course of action with Fyvie and, maybe to a lesser extent, Pawlett?

 

Should we try to hold onto them for as long as possible, until they stagnate and end up going for next to nothing, or should we cash in on them when they're still young and have the potential to develop at a club that IS capable of progressing players?

 

Fyvie's being touted at a million quid, which for a club like Aberdeen is an absolute fortune... though that million quid would probably more like, what, 500k in real money? Granted he could, one day, be worth ten times that.... but just not at Aberdeen.

 

 

I suppose it's a sort of stick or twist scenario, though the odds are heavily stacked that if we twist we'll bust and end up with a Fyvie who's worth feck all.

 

We should also factor in that of that 'million' quid the playing side would see exactly jack and sh*t.

 

Maybe I've answered my own question, in that case.

 

Lose him later for nothing (since none of his development fee would ever see the light of day) or lose him now for nothing (since none of his transfer fee would ever see the light of day).

 

 

I don't think AFC in particular stagnate development. I can't think of any young player that have shown brilliant potential who we would appear to have stunted. Diamond burst onto the scene, he was young and motivated, but he was never any good at football was he? McNaughton, got a decent move in the end but was never going to be a star. Chris maguire? Puleeze.

 

If Fyvie's good enough, he'll go far. I'd keep him for 2/3 seasons then flog him for

[Scarface]

McNaughton actually went on to play at a pretty decent level, arguably better than the level he had been with Aberdeen, and he did/is doing very well by most accounts.

 

And that's my point.

 

At Aberdeen he had been one of these bright young prospects who was touted to be a star of the future, but when he broke through he suddenly stopped progressing. He stagnated, and eventually left with a collective 'meh'. We just weren't able to progress him to the next level. We had taken yet another bright prospect and turned him into... nothing.

 

Then he went to Cardiff, and I believe last season he was their player of the year. So he wasn't sh*t, he just wasn't developing... like so many other players at Aberdeen.

 

To be fair, that's not a trait exclusive to AFC. Instead, it's indicative of the drudgery and poor quality of the SPL as a whole. You're either playing for the Old Firm, which involves regularly humping the vastly inferior opposition with the aid of dodgy refereeing decisions, or you're going through the motions for one of the diddy clubs.

 

Fyvie should get a season of game-time under his belt here and then take the first opportunity of first team football at a decent level down south if he wants to maximise his potential. The likes of McArthur and McCarthy who, having got a fair bit of experience at Hamilton, have improved markedly playing regularly alongside/against top-class opposition at Wigan. Similarly, guys like Adam, S. Fletcher, Hutton, Berra, McFadden, Snodgrass, Dorrans etc have started to realise their potential upon leaving the SPL goldfish bowl and the likes of Wallace, Goodwillie, Maguire and potentially Wilson will be the next in line to be grateful to see the back of Scottish fitba upon serving their apprenticeships up here.

[Jazzer_Bett]

I think what AFC should do is certainly sell Fyvie while he still has the "potential" tag (think someone else touched on this too). I think we should absolutely be selling Fyvie while he is hot.

 

This may even be next January.

 

As I said in my earlier post If we can hype this kid then then dumb dumbs down south will pay good money to get what they think is "the next hot prospect" before anyone else does.

 

AFC must sell this boy for money and set a precedent for clubs who look to our youngsters. We should be quite happy to be a selling club as long as the money we get is decent - just the way Petrie did succsessfully at Hibs in the first half of last decade.

[phoenix]

McNaughton went on to pretty good things did he not? Almost in the EPL this year, never know where you could go if you have a decent season there(Charlie Adam)??

 

 

He certainly did , the Cardiff fans love him and he was player of the year.

 

We loved him here too.

[Jazzer_Bett]

We go no money for Kev, and he was a valuable player - we need to start generating decent transfer fees again.

[gla5gowdon]

I think these players need games under their belt. That's the best way to learn.

 

Also, how would it play out to potential admirers if we had a "minimum fee" into the contract? If we had Fyvie attached to a

[Jazzer_Bett]

Also, how would it play out to potential admirers if we had a "minimum fee" into the contract? If we had Fyvie attached to a

[spamspamspam]

Think one of the problems we've had with developing players kelt is our senior players haven't been of a quality that kids can learn from and look up to.

 

Zander had ando for 1 season

Mcnaughton had no one to look up to

Maguire had the likes of pasquanelli (sp)

Fyvie had Kerr ffs! Ended up being fyvie driving him and ghost on rather than the other way about

 

Our youth policy won't work properly until we have good senior players for them to learn from imo

[Ke1t]

Think one of the problems we've had with developing players kelt is our senior players haven't been of a quality that kids can learn from and look up to.

 

Zander had ando for 1 season

Mcnaughton had no one to look up to

Maguire had the likes of pasquanelli (sp)

Fyvie had Kerr ffs! Ended up being fyvie driving him and ghost on rather than the other way about

 

Our youth policy won't work properly until we have good senior players for them to learn from imo

 

That's a very good point. You learn more, and play to a better standard when there are superior players around you.

 

If the guys you're learning your trade from are beer-swilling, fag-smoking, no-skill-having motherf**kers of the kind AFC routinely employ then your youth players are going to learn bad habits and zero professionalism. What kind of tricks do you reckon Fyvie picked up from Gary McDonald and Derek Young?

 

Hiding and balancing buckets of water on the top of a door, I imagine.

 

Given we're not exactly bursting at the seams with top quality players, ie. none whatsoever, it's probably a cracking idea to sell who we can for what we can before they all turn into yet another Peterhead prospect.

[Ke1t]

We go no money for Kev, and he was a valuable player - we need to start generating decent transfer fees again.

 

I seem to recall Celtic and a couple English clubs were sniffing around, with the old "Million Pounds" line being raised in connection with McNaughton.

 

As you say, we got nothing for him because we held onto him for way, way too long until sweet eff all was more or less what he was worth.

 

We all knew there was a player in there, but I think we were of the idea that it was time for him to go by the end.

 

The million might have came in handy.

[Dandyesque]

Given AFC is pretty much incapable of progressing players from promising youngster to valuable first team asset, one or two recent examples aside, what do you reckon is the best course of action with Fyvie and, maybe to a lesser extent, Pawlett?

 

Should we try to hold onto them for as long as possible, until they stagnate and end up going for next to nothing, or should we cash in on them when they're still young and have the potential to develop at a club that IS capable of progressing players?

 

Fyvie's being touted at a million quid, which for a club like Aberdeen is an absolute fortune... though that million quid would probably more like, what, 500k in real money? Granted he could, one day, be worth ten times that.... but just not at Aberdeen.

 

 

I suppose it's a sort of stick or twist scenario, though the odds are heavily stacked that if we twist we'll bust and end up with a Fyvie who's worth feck all.

 

We should also factor in that of that 'million' quid the playing side would see exactly jack and sh*t.

 

Maybe I've answered my own question, in that case.

 

Lose him later for nothing (since none of his development fee would ever see the light of day) or lose him now for nothing (since none of his transfer fee would ever see the light of day).

 

 

Keep him and hope we get the money.

 

I want to see footballers at Pittodrie (or the new stadium) for as long as we can keep them - if the silly money comes along, then grab it with both hands.

 

But wait for the silly money - unless expiring contracts dictate otherwise.

[Jazzer_Bett]

Keep him and hope we get the money

 

I'm with Kelt, we all want to enjoy Fyvie develop but if someone offers "potential money" I.E.

[SheepieBaaBaa]

Luck does play a major factor in this. Man U had a whole heap of excellent players coming through at the same time, your Giggs n Beckhams etc. But even they haven't be able to produce this amount of great players coming through. Hibs had a season or two of producing loads of players and selling for big, which has halted. We've had our share of players, our problem is that we are pish at being able to see the value of these players and being able to sell them for their worth.

 

Obviously scouts need to have a keen eye on potential, but a lot of this is down to luck as potential is very rarely fulfilled.

 

As Gary Player said.... "The more I practice, the luckier I get"

[StandFree1982]

Think one of the problems we've had with developing players kelt is our senior players haven't been of a quality that kids can learn from and look up to.

 

Zander had ando for 1 season

Mcnaughton had no one to look up to

Maguire had the likes of pasquanelli (sp)

Fyvie had Kerr ffs! Ended up being fyvie driving him and ghost on rather than the other way about

 

Our youth policy won't work properly until we have good senior players for them to learn from imo

Fyvie also had Hartley around, although he was injured for most of it.

 

I hope the players learn/learnt respect, dedication, loyalty and hard work from players like Darren Mackie and Derek Young.

[StandFree1982]

As Gary Player said.... "The more I practice, the luckier I get"

Not sure playing golf is going to help our youth development though....