Lockerbie Conspiracy Theories

[The Boofon]

If you want to argue over semantics, be my guest - but there's nothing natural about an aircraft "exploding", or otherwise being all-but vaporised. On the subject of being clear, what do you base your statement on, regarding "Normally at least some surviving material?"

 

If you can name another incident with an impact debris circumstance (namely detonation of fuel as well as CFIT) that's markedly different, I'd be interested. There's of course been many high-energy kinetic strikes; Swissair 111, Egyptair 990 spring to mind, but nothing that includes the enormous energy of burning fuel.

 

Also the aircraft did anything but nose-dive. It struck the Pentagon level with the first floor. It did not hit the ground first.

 

 

I thought we were on about the plane that crashed in the field not the Pentagon one.

 

By surviving material I mean debris.

 

Looks like we're speaking about two different crashes though so I'll opt out for the moment.

 

I wasn't arguing with you by the way.

[tommo1903]

I think the American president is definitely better off having killed 3,000 of his own citizens, just so his country could fight a war that would allow the USA to get richer about 10 years after he'd completed his term in office.

 

Conspiracy theories like this do my f**kin heed in.

[diamondsr4ever]

I think the American president is definitely better off having killed 3,000 of his own citizens, just so his country could fight a war that would allow the USA to get richer about 10 years after he'd completed his term in office.

 

Conspiracy theories like this do my f**kin heed in.

 

they may do yer heed in, but to write everything off as it is what it is, is initself a bit silly, or are you happy with all government reasons behind these issues

[spamspamspam]

I think the American president is definitely better off having killed 3,000 of his own citizens, just so his country could fight a war that would allow the USA to get richer about 10 years after he'd completed his term in office.

 

Conspiracy theories like this do my f**kin heed in.

 

Not saying the theories are or arent true but your way of looking at it is very blinkered. Did seeing Bush MkII in the White House 8 years after his dad was there not give some sort of indication to you how families run politics in the US? (and everywhere else but thats a whole other conversation) The Kennedy's being another, the Clintons are also a driving force...

 

Just because they are no longer president that doesnt mean they stop making money and gathering power. The Bush, Kennedy and Clinton families make millions from the decisions their grandfathers made and their grandsons and granddaughters will also be kept in the high life from the money being made right now from Bush MkII decisions made 5 and 10 years ago. When you also consider that a lot of the Bush money comes from the middle east, a lot the donators were enemies or were known to extremely dislike Saddam Hussan because he destabilised their precious oil price and made it harder to do business globally then it does open up more reasons than just George Doubleya wantin war or trying to make his term look good. These guys put more stock in their bank account figures than their legacies...

[boboisared]

I'm of the opinion the President doesn't even make the decisions...

[tommo1903]

they may do yer heed in, but to write everything off as it is what it is, is initself a bit silly, or are you happy with all government reasons behind these issues

 

 

I have no doubt that the public knows, or has access to, only some of the sh1t that really went dowon on 9/11.

 

What gets me is that, in effect, people are acusing a bumbling f**kwit like Gee dubya of killing 3,000 people.

 

Some of the pish that some folk want to know is astounding. Really, why do we give a f**k. Some c**t has admitted to it. The people are dead, they're nae coming back. It was horriffic how they lost their lives, but let it be.

 

The bellends who spend most of there lives typing up conspiracy theories on blogs that "unique" people read (equally boring, but very dangerous) c**ts should be f**king shot. I struggle to comprehend how people can actually think that some of the bollocks they type is legit.

[ScottishJohn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ujWitEr-Ww&feature=related

 

You can see the blasts coming from each floor right before it falls. IMO it's been demolished.

[oldyoungloon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0bIRkv29xk

[Bebo]

America would kill thousands of their own people.....na, pile of sh*te.

 

OPERATION NORTHWOODS

 

Proposed by the Chairman of the Joint Cheifs of Staff Lyman Louis Lemnitzer, the 1962 document called for the US Military-Intell-Special Forces to secretly carry out acts of violence against Americans, to be blamed on Cuba. The intention was to create support for US military action against Cuba, ultimately to engage the USSR, hopefully in a "winnable" nuclear war which would only kill 170 million Americans.

One of the many shocking proposals included blowing up drone aircraft that would be falsely reported to be full of college students on a holiday.

 

ABC News reported in May of 2001, "US Military Wanted to Provoke War With Cuba". Although this plan never came to fruition, it highlights the intentions of the highest military chiefs to intentionally kill American citizens to realize political and military goals. Additionally, it shows that back in 1962 they were thinking about their capacity to use hijacked or remote-controlled commercial airliners to stage high profile terror attacks.

[Terrorfex]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ujWitEr-Ww&feature=related

 

You can see the blasts coming from each floor right before it falls. IMO it's been demolished.

 

Or you can see the spontaneous dust clouds from the collapse of an entire building.

 

 

This random demolition from Youtube, for example, shows none of the same "puff" clouds (Rushing out from all floors simultaneously). In fact in both, the buildings have begun to fall before any significant cloud release (especially apparent on the left hand block).

 

I'm not shooting you down, I'm just saying : if you hold a viewpoint like that, explore youtube, see some examples of controlled explosions, and try to reconcile the differences to establish a plausible explanation from where you're coming from. Bringing down a building deliberately is an exact science (proven even more so when it occasionally goes wrong).

[bonzodaddy73]

I don't buy the theory that everything would vaporise, what about the likes of Lockerbie, that came from far higher in the sky than the Pennsylvania Crash and loads of bits survived the impact.

Exactly! And while were on it. Where were the bodies?

[Ke1t]

I think the American president is definitely better off having killed 3,000 of his own citizens, just so his country could fight a war that would allow the USA to get richer about 10 years after he'd completed his term in office.

 

Conspiracy theories like this do my f**kin heed in.

 

I think the mistake you;re making here is that the invasion of Iraq was effected in order to benefit Bush, at the behest of Bush.

 

PNAC, a large and VERY powerful element within the Bush government, had already stated their vision for securing foreign resources (oil), and the means by which to do it.

 

To simplify it...

 

A group of powerful political figures, many of whom would be on Bush's cabinet, clearly stated that in their opinion it would be necessary to secure foreign oil. In order to do this they would have to get the American public's support, and the only way to get the American public's support would be if there were a 'Pearl Harbor Event', meaning a violent attack on the United States.

 

Within a year of these PNAC signatories taking office this Pearl Harbor Event.. which hadn't occured in over half a century... almost immediately took place. The attack on the World Trade Center. This is a coincidence of staggering proportions by any measure.

 

This allowed PNAC to initiate their pre-planned invasion of a resource rich country, with barely any reason to do so, but with the full support of the American public.

 

None of this is conspiracy or speculation.... this is all documented fact.

 

1998 PNAC calls for regime change in Iraq in a letter to Clinton.

 

2000: PNAC States that "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event–– like a new Pearl Harbor"

 

2001: Jan: Bush takes office. PNAC members assume cabinet positions.

 

2001: The 'Pearl Harbor Event' takes place. Sept 11, 2001 Attack on the WTC.

 

2003: America invades Iraq.

 

So, within a year of PNAC assuming control of the US, their 911 event occurs, and a mere 2 years after PNAC assumes control of the United States, its goal of invading Iraq and securing its resources has transpired.

 

Now, this is either a monumental coincidence, or what we saw was governmental policy... mandated by those in government from BEFORE they took power, simply being carried out.

 

I don't think it's a coincidence, given the massive wave of anti-Iraq propaganda in the lead up to the invasion of Iraq, and the FACT that the PNAC signatories (now government) has said that this is exactly what they wanted to do! This was a pre-planned event being carried out as soon as possible.

 

The ONLY item of dispute in my mind is whether the 911 attacks were planned by PNAC or whether this 'Pearl Harbor Event' which PNAC required to happen was simply an enormous coincidence.

 

The rest of the stuff... documented, indisputable historic fact.

[Ando]

Extremely naive to think that governments & their militaries would be unwilling to carry out false flag type operations against their own people when you consider the oil/money/power/land etc. etc. usually at stake. For all Alex Jones' faults (and he has plenty), his films like Terrorstorm and The Obama Deception ARE worth watching in my opinion, even if only to hear the polar opposite view on things compared to mainstream media reporting and governmental versions of world events. Surely better to hear all sides and form your own opinions, than to blindly accept one side's version of events.

[bonzodaddy73]

Total agree Ando. I mean with regards to false flag operations,the US are the masters at it. The gulf of tonkin being one which obviously led to The Vietnam war.

[Terrorfex]

Exactly! And while were on it. Where were the bodies?

 

Which crash are you talking about? Numerous human remains (the largest of which was half a spinal chord) were recovered from United 93 (Pensylvannia crash). Dozens and dozens of complete bodies in the case of the Pentagon incident (American 77).

 

What "Bodies" are missing?

[RUL]

 

This? Alas, after all the conspiracy theories about what this would (or wouldn't show) a FOI request finally brought it into the cold light of day to reveal ... The cameras weren't even trained in a way to see anything.

 

That CCTV footage clears up everything.

[bonzodaddy73]

The Pennsylvania one. I wasn't aware they found a "spinal cord". Shame they didn't find the engines of the plane. Or any part of a plane come to that! Well apart from the bits the CIA turned up with them claimed to have found. Although did they not claim to find a partially destroyed passport of one of the hijackers. Although I may be wrong with that.

[Terrorfex]

That CCTV footage clears up everything.

 

It adds nothing. But of course, to the Conspiracy Side, it's a serious shot in the foot because they'd attached increasingly ridiculous predictions about what it would reveal. They spent so much effort and time believing it'd been hidden for some nefarious purpose, it never occurred to them it was hidden because it showed absolutely nothing of relevance to anyone.

[Terrorfex]

The Pennsylvania one. I wasn't aware they found a "spinal cord". Shame they didn't find the engines of the plane. Or any part of a plane come to that! Well apart from the bits the CIA turned up with them claimed to have found. Although did they not claim to find a partially destroyed passport of one of the hijackers. Although I may be wrong with that.

 

 

 

Like this engine?

 

Come on.

[bonzodaddy73]

 

Like this engine?

 

Come on.

Is it an engine?

[Terrorfex]

Is it an engine?

 

Yes. The compressor/turbine disc is clearly identifiable.

[bonzodaddy73]

Yes. The compressor/turbine disc is clearly identifiable.

Oh right. Just the one though!

[zappadons]

So many flaws in Terrorfex argument. The main one being he is wrong

[diamondsr4ever]

I have no doubt that the public knows, or has access to, only some of the sh1t that really went dowon on 9/11.

 

What gets me is that, in effect, people are acusing a bumbling f**kwit like Gee dubya of killing 3,000 people.

 

Some of the pish that some folk want to know is astounding. Really, why do we give a f**k. Some c**t has admitted to it. The people are dead, they're nae coming back. It was horriffic how they lost their lives, but let it be.

 

The bellends who spend most of there lives typing up conspiracy theories on blogs that "unique" people read (equally boring, but very dangerous) c**ts should be f**king shot. I struggle to comprehend how people can actually think that some of the bollocks they type is legit.

 

free your mind.....and the rest will follow.............

[tommo1903]

free your mind.....and the rest will follow.............

 

Its as free as it needs to be

[The Boofon]

Its as free as it needs to be

 

More like a closing down sale sort of price with not much left inside and everything inside of no use to anyone.

[tommo1903]

More like a closing down sale sort of price with not much left inside and everything inside of no use to anyone.

 

Surely closing down price would be more expensive than free?

 

Good one Boof. Tit.

[The Boofon]

Surely closing down price would be more expensive than free?

 

Good one Boof. Tit.

 

I never said otherwise.