The Milne Debate - Communication Breakdown

[Dandie1992]

Many a year has passed since this forum, alongside our comrades in Donstalk and AberdeenMad, started debating and arguing over Stewart Milne and his involvement in our football club. Almost to a point where we are becoming sick of it. It's an argument which seems to come into play through every topic that is mashed out via our keyboards in anger and despair, and sits embedded deep into the psyche of every Dons fan who has been connected to the club for a period of time and thus understands the inner workings of AFC as a buisness.

 

It goes - "Milne needs to speculate to accumulate." "Milne's unwillingness to invest in the club is causing this once great club to fall into disrepair and could eventually doom our club to relegation" and "FFS MILNE! Get the f**king wallet oot!"

 

It is so widespread and concrete it almost fails to define itself as an argument, but more a general statement about Milne.

 

Even my own voice has echoed these shouts previously mentioned... But now, I feel that as a direct result of this, a new point should be discussed.

 

It came about after a post on this forum contained an answer from Milne relayed from a poster who was at some kind of shareholders meeting I believe, where the very issue of a seeming unwillingness to invest, was brought forth to Milne.

 

The answer was that the club is in debt, if he started to invest heavily in the club, the banks would dive like gannets on him for this.

Never could I pretend to be knowledgeable in the in and outs of business, but I'm inclined to agree with Milne. I can only imagine trying to spend proportionally substantial amounts of money in a business deep in debt, an almost impossible situation.

 

Now I'm not dedicating this post to whether Milne is right or wrong here...but rather... why on earth does it take so much to get a seemingly simple answer from Milne over one of the most staunch issues raised by the collective of dons fans this last few years?

Not once have I seen quotes from Milne directly in the media recently (they may be there, but not in a large amount it would seem), his ugly face on BBC Sport websites, on the back page of the paper, to talk about the issues which seems likes we, the fans, have to discuss to know what is going on at his football club.

 

So, should Milne directly be engaging the fans, answering the questions to which we grow wearisome of talking about, that makes the apathy grow and grow and damages the club?

The sporadic talk about some kind of representative on the board?

Does the board care about what the fans think?

[fatshaft]

 

 

So, should Milne directly be engaging the fans, answering the questions to which we grow wearisome of talking about, that makes the apathy grow and grow and damages the club?

The sporadic talk about some kind of representative on the board?

Does the board care about what the fans think?

To put your question another way, where are these views aired and answered? At an AGM?, because if so they will surely be answered. On an internet forum?, well surely they never will be? This is the problem, you have all these voices saying "milne says nothing" (of course if he was in the papers/TV all the time he'd be an egotistical dictator no doubt) but when he faces the public at an AGM, who shows up? (Rocket being an exception of course)

 

Perhaps your question should be, in this virtual age, should AFC be engaging with fans online in a forum type environment? I would say that, having been involved in businesses that have tried, it can be a very difficult medium to get right, admittedly easier when things are going very well, but fraught with danger and with almost no upside when they are not.

[Stoneybloke]

So, should Milne directly be engaging the fans, answering the questions to which we grow wearisome of talking about, that makes the apathy grow and grow and damages the club?

The sporadic talk about some kind of representative on the board?

Does the board care about what the fans think?

I think that things have gone way beyond the point of Milne having some sort of dialogue with the fans. He would have nothing to gain from that at all and it could degenerate into an embarrassing spectacle.

 

Whether the board cares about the fans is debatable and their apparent lack of concern with the apathy of low attendances would suggest that they don't.

 

The only thing that will achieve anything now in terms of regenerating an acceptable and consistent level of support is a team that gets results and inspires pride and loyalty. Sadly, I think that is still a long way off, if it is indeed attainable under the current regime.

[Jazzer_Bett]

I harbour a hope that once the new stadium is built and the debt is gone (in place of a mortgage agreement) Milne will then are the as the time to invest in AFC a bit more.

[RUL]

Crazy talk, milne will probably have invested all he is going to in the shortfall for the new stadium. There will be a share issue at some point i reckon!

 

Whilst the quote by milne does make sense, at other clubs the board would cover the debt interst free. Last year we spent 792k on interest payments and this year that will rise to 840k! It will keep rising until we pay circa 1m the year we move stadium! In short we will spend around 4m in 5 years on interest payments at a time where afc investment in the team is zero!

 

At a time when the old firm are on the wane and their is no genuine 3rd team in scotland i feel milne has already missed the boat in terms of investing when the time was right.

[dj_bollocks]

From what I've seen his public speaking is terrible and hardly inspires any great confidence...

 

Without any great knowledge of it, it appears that the business model of AFC just isn't working - but if we the fans (and erstwhile investors) could understand what's going on a bit more then we might be more sympathetic to the situation. Instead we just get the impression that the people running the club are a bunch of arrogant pricks who don't give a sh*t about an increasingly apathetic but still vocal support. Engaging the vocal minority and helping to understand what vexes them can be a bit hit and miss, but what's the worst that can happen ? You speak or have a discourse with someone at the club you don't necessarily agree with their point of view and you go away at the very least a little wiser to the situation...

 

This is a club that, let's not forget, punched well above it's weight in Europe, and failed to capitalise on it. Now that seems light years away, through GROSS mismanagement and frankly at times unbelievable decisions and continuing lack of investment from the club (primary investment) and as a result of that through the fans (secondary investment). My point being even when we were going through a brief purple patch, they f**ked it up, and now they're in even bigger trouble, with dwindling attendances and dismal performances.

 

You appear out of answers Mr Milne, and one hopes increasingly out of time...

[Redstar]

From what I've seen his public speaking is terrible and hardly inspires any great confidence...

 

I'd agree on this, it's highly embarrasing when the country bumpkin takes the stand...Nothing will change while this Idiot has a grip on the club...He's no Steve Gibson, he has no real interest in AFC and has shown over the last 15+years he will invest none of his vast personal wealth in the club.

Only way to change anything down Todders way is by voting with our feet...boycott all games...If nothing else it will provoke some sort of response from the club...they take us for granted...well that works two ways...we took it for granted that one of the wealthiest men in Scotland would invest some of his hard earned in the club...much in the same way we invest ours in entrance fee week in week out...But no Milne has invested Fu*k all in the club...but expects us mugs turn up on mass to see the club slip further into the mire week in week out...Fu*k you Milne your a tosser of the highest order!!

[proudtobeadon]

There is a lot of talk about Stewart Milne needing to invest more in AFC but any investment would be a one off, unlike the Manchester City owners Stewart Milne does not have bottomless pockets. AFC unfortunately are not big enough to sustain big investments in the team and club, only other way would be to have outside backers with the view there would be no return on their investment, not many companies willing to do that.

[Redstar]

Stewart Milne does not have bottomless pockets.

Personal fortune of an estimated 400m quid...........not quite bottomless...but in Scottish football terms...a fair chunk of change!!

[ericblack4boss]

the trump card up Milnes sleeve is that HE knows that WE know that he is underwriting all the debt on the club and if he walks away then are buggered.

[RUL]

<br />Personal fortune of an estimated 400m quid...........not quite bottomless...but in Scottish football terms...a fair chunk of change!!<br />

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[ericblack4boss]

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[RUL]

2011In the year to June, Stewart Milne Group made

[Redstar]

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[proudtobeadon]

If Stewart Milne was the type of chairman that was going to regularly dip into his pockets to strengthen the team he would have done this by now. So it is never going to happen now, AFC is just a hobby for him and no way is he going to erode his personnel fortune on Aberdeen. Stewart Milne

[fatshaft]

I'd agree on this, it's highly embarrasing when the country bumpkin takes the stand...Nothing will change while this Idiot has a grip on the club...He's no Steve Gibson, he has no real interest in AFC and has shown over the last 15+years he will invest none of his vast personal wealth in the club.

Only way to change anything down Todders way is by voting with our feet...boycott all games...If nothing else it will provoke some sort of response from the club...they take us for granted...well that works two ways...we took it for granted that one of the wealthiest men in Scotland would invest some of his hard earned in the club...much in the same way we invest ours in entrance fee week in week out...But no Milne has invested Fu*k all in the club...but expects us mugs turn up on mass to see the club slip further into the mire week in week out...Fu*k you Milne your a tosser of the highest order!!

What do you base this on? He is quite clearly a fan, was even in Gothenburg, were you?

[Redstar]

What do you base this on? He is quite clearly a fan, was even in Gothenburg, were you?

A real football fan would use some of his own money a la Steve Gibson at Boro,Milne is not going to use any of his own wealth to support the club...he's on record as saying as much.

As for Gothenburg...That was a very long time ago...I can't think of anything other than his old Gothenberg ticket stub that would suggest he is anything other than a complete embarassment to the club...and no I wasn't in Gothenburg.

[fatshaft]

A real football fan would use some of his own money a la Steve Gibson at Boro,Milne is not going to use any of his own wealth to support the club...he's on record as saying as much.

As for Gothenburg...That was a very long time ago...I can't think of anything other than his old Gothenberg ticket stub that would suggest he is anything other than a complete embarassment to the club...and no I wasn't in Gothenburg.

Why don't you put up a decent chunk of change then? I'm assuming you're a 'real football fan'?

 

My point re:Gothernburg, is he has a long standing and well known affiliation with supporting the Dons, long before he took over Chairmanship, so stating otherwise is nothing more than ill-informed vindictive pish, something for which btw, you are now famous for in your short term posting here.

[Bobby Connor]

Why don't you put up a decent chunk of change then? I'm assuming you're a 'real football fan'?

 

My point re:Gothernburg, is he has a long standing and well known affiliation with supporting the Dons, long before he took over Chairmanship, so stating otherwise is nothing more than ill-informed vindictive pish, something for which btw, you are now famous for in your short term posting here.

 

Aye, FS, but you're famous for being S Milne's number one fan. Not quite sure why you are always so quick to jump in and defend him?

 

Can you tell me one good thing he has done for this club (besides guaranteeing the debt he created himself)?

[Redstar]

Why don't you put up a decent chunk of change then? I'm assuming you're a 'real football fan'?

 

My point re:Gothernburg, is he has a long standing and well known affiliation with supporting the Dons, long before he took over Chairmanship, so stating otherwise is nothing more than ill-informed vindictive pish, something for which btw, you are now famous for in your short term posting here.

Aye whatever pal...but am I as famous as you are for defending Milne?

[fatshaft]

Aye whatever pal...but am I as famous as you are for defending Milne?

As 121 of your 131 posts have been attacks on Milne, I'd say without doubt not as famous for it, much more so.

[fatshaft]

Aye, FS, but you're famous for being S Milne's number one fan. Not quite sure why you are always so quick to jump in and defend him?

 

Can you tell me one good thing he has done for this club (besides guaranteeing the debt he created himself)?

Neither his #1 fan, nor quick to defend him, rather I hate to see nonsense posted on any topic, and Milne inevitably brings out the worst in a lot of posters.

 

I have posted frequently on my concerns about Wiggy, especially post-Sigma when I felt sure he would see the error of his spendthrift ways, but sadly no.

 

What especially gets my goat, is the Milne-out-he's-sh*te type posters - Rdtarse being typical of the type - who offer no viable alternative, just 'get him oot'! Well sorry, but without a viable alternative, we have to stick with him for now.

 

Christ, look how many wanted that fly by night shyster at Dundee as his replacement, despite his clearly worrying Dons history - again, many slate Wiggy's fandom, but he has always been a fan, Dundee shyster has according to those who know him, never if at all been one - yet any port in a storm seems to be the cry, rather than reasoned thought, Ian Wood, the non-football supporting rugby fan, Donald trump, the egotistical megalomaniac who never does anything without an eye on the profit to be had; but they'd all apparently be better than a dyed in the wool lifelong Dons fan who is at least a safeguard against any possible banruptcy, if nothing else.

 

One thing he's done good for the club - he will build the best stadium in Scotland for us.

[Bobby Connor]

Neither his #1 fan, nor quick to defend him, rather I hate to see nonsense posted on any topic, and Milne inevitably brings out the worst in a lot of posters.

 

I have posted frequently on my concerns about Wiggy, especially post-Sigma when I felt sure he would see the error of his spendthrift ways, but sadly no.

 

What especially gets my goat, is the Milne-out-he's-sh*te type posters - Rdtarse being typical of the type - who offer no viable alternative, just 'get him oot'! Well sorry, but without a viable alternative, we have to stick with him for now.

 

Christ, look how many wanted that fly by night shyster at Dundee as his replacement, despite his clearly worrying Dons history - again, many slate Wiggy's fandom, but he has always been a fan, Dundee shyster has according to those who know him, never if at all been one - yet any port in a storm seems to be the cry, rather than reasoned thought, Ian Wood, the non-football supporting rugby fan, Donald trump, the egotistical megalomaniac who never does anything without an eye on the profit to be had; but they'd all apparently be better than a dyed in the wool lifelong Dons fan who is at least a safeguard against any possible banruptcy, if nothing else.

 

One thing he's done good for the club - he will build the best stadium in Scotland for us.

 

Not done it yet though has he? If he does it will go a long way towards making up for his monumental fuck ups!

[Redstar]

As 121 of your 131 posts have been attacks on Milne, I'd say without doubt not as famous for it, much more so.

Mate you need to chill out...I may have posted some anti Milne propaganda (you do get the Avatar?) but I doubt the % is as high as you suggest...I remember Aberdeen when the club had Dick Donald at the helm with Chris Anderson as his right hand man...what the club has become these days is a crying shame...It just so happens to coinside with S Milne taking the reigns...Yes/No?

[fatshaft]

Mate you need to chill out...I may have posted some anti Milne propaganda (you do get the Avatar?) but I doubt the % is as high as you suggest...I remember Aberdeen when the club had Dick Donald at the helm with Chris Anderson as his right hand man...what the club has become these days is a crying shame...It just so happens to coinside with S Milne taking the reigns...Yes/No?

I have no idea what your avatar refers to? The decline of the club started with Chris Anderson's death.

[Guest]

My thoughts;

 

- Milne is a terrible public speaker. The less we hear from him on TV, representing AFC, the better. This doesn't mean he can't release written statements however.

- Milne has withstood several attempts to either oust him from power, or break his stranglehold as Chairman. He realised most of us see his position as bulletproof. Quite obviously however, it's not.

- Milne need not invest any money in the playing side of AFC. He could, as someone else mentioned however, relinquish us of the debt that is our worst enemy. The banks would appreciate that one, I'm pretty sure.

- Milne spoke at length at the time of the McGhee sacking, of the real need for change in the way the Board did business. I can see no proof or evidence in the way th AFC has been ran in the last 12 months... can you?

- Leading on from the previous point - Milne loves a soundbite. He knows we are like putty in his hands.

- AFC does not need Milne. Milne, more so, needs AFC. In a sense, he has a desire to right his wrongs, or he will forever be seen (in the eyes of all AFC fans) as a complete and utter failure. His defiant stand therefore, just compounds our misery and that of our decline in standards.

- Managers may come and go, but until there is real, tangible change in the business mechanisms of AFC, things will never get any better.

[HughMungus]

I have no idea what your avatar refers to? The decline of the club started with Chris Anderson's death.

some times you're good...some times yer bad

[HughMungus]

I harbour a hope that once the new stadium is built and the debt is gone (in place of a mortgage agreement) Milne will then are the as the time to invest in AFC a bit more.

 

Try saying that twice. . .

[fatshaft]

some times you're good...some times yer bad

[Iraq_Red]

I harbour a hope that once the new stadium is built and the debt is gone (in place of a mortgage agreement) Milne will then are the as the time to invest in AFC a bit more.

 

Is this basically the same thing?!