Would The League Survive Without The Old Firm?

[K OK]

Probably done before, do the appropriate action if it has mods -

 

What do you think would happen to the SPL if the Old Firm were for whatever reason, not in it. Would the league survive? Would it have to be cut to 10, or expanded?

 

I think the basis to the question, would the SPL survive, is a big yes. Without the Old Firm, it would be, at the start of the reformation, an even competition between everyone. Imagine that belief for the first time in a long time (or for me, in my lifetime of knowing what the hell football was) that your team could actually win the ultimate prize? Surely, not just for Aberdeen but for any of the other SPL clubs in a position to win the league title, attendances would rise and more people would start to take interest in the product their club has to offer?

 

What about the TV revenue? Would the rest of the SPL suffer because the Old Firm are away? Is the income actually benefitting us enormously just now? It seems to me it's lack of attendance nowadays which is hurting the club more so than anything? I am just speculating, I'm sure someone will correct me or even better, put me in my place and say what a collective bunch of nonsense.

 

Discuss!

[muttonhumper]

Would The League Survive Without The Old Firm?

 

Yes.

 

100%.

 

Without a doubt.

 

Nowhere even close to not surviving.

[tup]

The only option for Scottish football to recover is to dispense with Rangers and Celtic, and all their media hangers-on (Sportsound et al) and get round the table and start afresh, new ideas, new people involved, to hell with these clowns running our game into the ground in their tiresome tit-for-tat game of perpetual whataboutery.

 

These clubs are scum.

[robbo]

as much as i hate them, id say no.

 

look at the welsh league without cardiff, swansea and wrexham (and now newport county).

 

you take away the "big" teams and investments slowly go down. even then, another 2 clubs would step up and take their place instead what with the guarantee of european football, somebody is bound to make money at the expense of others much in the way TNS have done. so in 40-50 years time, wed again be faced with a similar predicament.

[StandFree1982]

Why wouldn't it survive?

 

The money would probably leave the game, for the better, and we'd end up with a league of 10-12 teams all fighting for the same prizes, all competing at roughly the same level again. The standard of Scottish football would probably remain the same because presently there are a lot of good young players coming through and playing for Scottish clubs.

 

The worst thing that would happen is a lot of clubs would go to part time. Some clubs will fold, probably their own fault for not spending within their means (us included for a while, hopefully sorted out sooner rather than later)

 

We'll ALWAYS have a top league in Scotland. It might not be very good, but it's always going to survive.

[Dynamo]

Yes.

 

100%.

 

Without a doubt.

 

Nowhere even close to not surviving.

 

 

This.

 

We're not Ireland or Wales and anyone who says we'll end up like either doesn't know their fitba.

[robbo]

fair comments.

 

ill rephrase my answer then, yes we would survive, but no, it wouldnt be of the same standard it is now (which in itself is shocking).

 

less money coming in = more signings like derek young and poaching your kenny deuchars.

 

i fear for the time when players of mackies calibre are considered to be the "better" players in the top flight

[StandFree1982]

But you'd have more teams getting a chance of Europe and making a bit of money that way. Instead of now where you have the Old Firm guaranteed 2 of the European slots and everyone else fighting for the other.

 

If the money left Scottish football it would be the best thing to happen to it. The bubble will eventually burst in England and other leagues around the world, and clubs will spiral into the big black hole of administration due to debt. When that time comes, we'll be sitting up here, self sufficient and already years ahead of everyone else because we've managed to live without the money for so long.

 

It would also mean we'd be giving more young Scottish players a chance, thus helping the national squad.

[Dynamo]

There's no momey in Scottish football anyway.

 

If we were 1st/2nd in the league, we'd be getting 15k against Motherwell, Killie, Dunfermline etc irrespective of whether the Old firm were here or not. people will go to see a team flying high, and if we actually were in with a shout of winning the bloody thing, come April/May we'd be selling out.

[tup]

There are plenty football lovers in Scotland.

 

Very few of them attend.

 

Who can blame them?

 

The product is shit.

 

The whole of our game revolves around the whims of two clubs. Neither even like Scotland.

 

Get them to fuck.

[ebbe]

There are plenty football lovers in Scotland.

 

Very few of them attend.

 

Who can blame them?

 

The product is shit.

 

The whole of our game revolves around the whims of two clubs. Neither even like Scotland.

 

Get them to fuck.

 

100% correct. scottish football would never get bad enough for someone like mackie to be a "top player" as long as the highland league is in existance.

[vanderark14]

as much as i hate them, id say no.

 

look at the welsh league without cardiff, swansea and wrexham (and now newport county).

 

you take away the "big" teams and investments slowly go down. even then, another 2 clubs would step up and take their place instead what with the guarantee of european football, somebody is bound to make money at the expense of others much in the way TNS have done. so in 40-50 years time, wed again be faced with a similar predicament.

 

 

couldn't disagree with you more on this robbo.

 

we have a few teams outside our big two who can fill their grounds when there is something out there to play for, AFC, DUFC, Hibs, Hearts even Motherwell and Killie have done so in the past. a healthy competition would generate an interest. Look at hibs as an example, they had healthier crowds in division one when they were challenging for something.

 

Our teams outside the big two are far bigger than the teams out with the big two in wales.

 

the standard IMO would drop in the short term as money would be a factor but right now its shit and going nowhere.

 

Competition is the key here.

[StandFree1982]

100% correct. scottish football would never get bad enough for someone like mackie to be a "top player" as long as the highland league is in existance.

There are and will be plenty of good young players coming through who will be much better than Mackie. If Scotland had to rely on youth alone, within 10 years we'd probably produce some more and more cracking players of the quality we've not seen in Scotland for a long long time.

[Sydney_Red]

The SPL as we currently know it would probably not survive. Which I hope we could agree would be no bad thing. Once the cancer is removed we could expand the league, move to summer football, revive the reserve league, reduce the number of foreign players and schedule a game for fans - not sky tv. I have no doubt Scottish football would lose a lot of money and would be weakened as a result. But this will only be temporary. 10 years after the exit of the old firm we would have an open competitive league, with increased attendances, a better financial picture, a stronger national side and a whole lot less vile.

[StandFree1982]

So what we're saying here is:

 

OF hurry the fuck up and piss off to Ireland or England or wherever you think you belong and leave the rest of us to it. Thanks.

[vanderark14]

The SPL as we currently know it would probably not survive. Which I hope we could agree would be no bad thing. Once the cancer is removed we could expand the league, move to summer football, revive the reserve league, reduce the number of foreign players and schedule a game for fans - not sky tv. I have no doubt Scottish football would lose a lot of money and would be weakened as a result. But this will only be temporary. 10 years after the exit of the old firm we would have an open competitive league, with increased attendances, a better financial picture, a stronger national side and a whole lot less vile.

 

spot on and I'd like to add that we shoul put measure in place to stop the same happening again. All money from TV is distributed equally - 1st gets the same as 10th, the prize for winning something is the glory it brings.

[tup]

So what we're saying here is:

 

OF hurry the fuck up and piss off to Ireland or England or wherever you think you belong and leave the rest of us to it. Thanks.

 

The issue is nobody wants them, they are two terrorist hoarding scars on the footballing landscape.

[vanderark14]

So what we're saying here is:

 

OF hurry the fuck up and piss off to Ireland or England or wherever you think you belong and leave the rest of us to it. Thanks.

 

we can but dream

 

in reality we are fucked, England will not take them and their other joke of an atlantic league will never ever happen.

 

We are stuck with this lot until it all collapses

[HughMungus]

Aye it wid be a fine day if it wisna p!shin wi' rain...

 

No-one likes them, no,one want's them!

 

Where would they go??

 

Our best hope is to stand up against them. Start off by reversing the ludicrous 11-1 voting system and sharing the money evenly!

 

If they were to go(we can only dream) We would certainly survive...personally think it would be a magic time for all of us!

 

OFGTF!!!!!!!!!

[StandFree1982]

we can but dream

 

in reality we are fucked, England will not take them and their other joke of an atlantic league will never ever happen.

 

We are stuck with this lot until it all collapses

Rangers are due a collapse sooner rather than later. I don't know how well Celtic would survive without having a strong Rangers team to challenge them. I hope that if, or rather when, the huns get shafted another couple of teams will start challenging Celtic.

 

If the taxman gets his way we'll be 50% of the way there.

[HughMungus]

Guess I'm pretty much with VanDerArk then....

[vanderark14]

Aye it wid be a fine day if it wisna p!shin wi' rain...

 

No-one likes them, no,one want's them!

 

Where would they go??

 

Our best hope is to stand up against them. Start off by reversing the ludicrous 11-1 voting system and sharing the money evenly!

 

If they were to go(we can only dream) We would certainly survive...personally think it would be a magic time for all of us!

 

OFGTF!!!!!!!!!

 

that there just sums it all up. The day clubs agreed to that was the day this league finally flushed itself down the bog

[HughMungus]

Rangers are due a collapse sooner rather than later. I don't know how well Celtic would survive without having a strong Rangers team to challenge them. I hope that if, or rather when, the huns get shafted another couple of teams will start challenging Celtic.

 

If the taxman gets his way we'll be 50% of the way there.

 

The tax man always gets his way! There will be no clemency with the huns!

 

[wullfo]

Not only would the league survive, it would flourish.

[robbojunior]

as much as i hate them, id say no.

 

look at the welsh league without cardiff, swansea and wrexham (and now newport county).

 

you take away the "big" teams and investments slowly go down. even then, another 2 clubs would step up and take their place instead what with the guarantee of european football, somebody is bound to make money at the expense of others much in the way TNS have done. so in 40-50 years time, wed again be faced with a similar predicament.

 

robbo i think the problem with using the welsh or irish as a comparison, is that these nations have a very rich rugby heritage - add hurling to the irish and football was a poor 2nd or 3rd in the national favour.

 

in scotland, football is the no. 1 sport by a country mile in terms of both participation and spectators, therefore without the OF - scottish football would NEVER go to the dogs. It would only go from strength to strength as others have mentioned. people would fall back in love with the game due to real competition, more excitement and the fans would come back.

 

i must add, it doesn't necessarily require the OF to be removed from the equation for this to work - although I would have no objection to that - but so long as the playing field is leveled, a competitive league can still be achieved. It would still be lovely to thrash the hun at ibrox in front of only 12k fans once all the glory hunters have fucked off to support man u or whoever.

[barassie_afc]

Would be the best thing to happen to Scottish Fitba if they fxcked off

 

1) Forget about TV revenue its a misnomer banded about by the cartel

 

2) No OF more competition = more fans

 

3) Eventually natural organic growth would occur, game becomes attractive , more money

 

 

We need to get the notion out of our head that the OF are this "global" brand, they are not they are a badge for sectarian and bigoted jingoism, get then phuck

[tup]

robbo i think the problem with using the welsh or irish as a comparison

 

A bit formal.

 

Why don't you just say 'Dad'?

[robbo]

robbo i think the problem with using the welsh or irish as a comparison, is that these nations have a very rich rugby heritage - add hurling to the irish and football was a poor 2nd or 3rd in the national favour.

 

in scotland, football is the no. 1 sport by a country mile in terms of both participation and spectators, therefore without the OF - scottish football would NEVER go to the dogs. It would only go from strength to strength as others have mentioned. people would fall back in love with the game due to real competition, more excitement and the fans would come back.

 

i must add, it doesn't necessarily require the OF to be removed from the equation for this to work - although I would have no objection to that - but so long as the playing field is leveled, a competitive league can still be achieved. It would still be lovely to thrash the hun at ibrox in front of only 12k fans once all the glory hunters have fucked off to support man u or whoever.

 

funnily enough, there are more football clubs in wales than there are rugby ones. everyone assumes rugby is the no1 sport but its not. participation wise, football dwarfs it. its only when kids start growing up and socialising that the drinking culture and rugby one becomes intertwined. even then, more adults still play football.

 

essentially, more folk choose to play and watch football....but none of them will pay for it. arm chair fans of man utd and liverpool. they will however pay to watch rugby at all levels.

 

but yeah, i do take your point onboard.

[StandFree1982]

I'd be interesting to find out how many fans would still support Rangers and Celtic, and when I say support I mean "go to the games", if they moved to England or a European league. I'd imagine if they were still playing at home in glasgow, things wouldnt change too much. If the OF packed their shit up and left the country then how many fans would still follow them? And more importantly, who would they start supporting after that?

 

Another positive of losing the OF grasp of Scottish football is that clubs like Aberdeen, Dundee (either of them) and Hearts/Hibs would benefit by having more fans following them. Children grow up idolising clubs and players that win all the time, so they end up seeing Rangers and Celtic top of the league and support them.

[ollie1903]

Scottish football is hamstrung with the old firm in it. Our governing body (bodies), and those who pander to their whims are too scared or too stupid to admit it, and to realise our game is dead on it