Building The Correct Culture In The Team

[V for Vendetta]

I was listening to sportsound the other day and the halfwit Yogi was talking about the need to build the correct culture within a team/club. Now for a moment I scoffed thinking "aye Yogi, just like you did at Hibs eh?" but I stopped myself as he went on.

 

He mentioned how when he was at Hibs he recalls none of the payers had ego's once on the the pitch and how they likened taking the field to "putting on your boiler suit" - he'd been having this conversation with John Collins who agreed it was a massive problem now. In other words players don't realise they have a job to do, which requires their absolute focus, hard work. A working class ethic if you like.

 

He also pointed out how quickly Ferguson will remove the sort of players who stop showing that commitment from his team having taken years to get a squad where all the players think that way. (ie Beckam, Ronaldo, Tevez).

 

Now I don't often agree with the big galoot but I have to say regardless of Yogi's ability to actually achieve this as a manager I think he has a very good point.

 

In fact I'd say this is one of Afc biggest failures as a club in the last few years and explains why we don't get the value for the wages we spend.

 

This being my theory - i'd like to suggest that we can't build this culture overnight. Or even over 1 season and it would take a very good coaching team some time to do this, weeding out the weaker players or the prima donna's and bringing the correct attitude to the squad.

 

My conclusion from that is what we require is a manager capable of man management more than a tactician or "cheque book" manager. Someone whose greatest skill is in motivating and managing the personalities.

 

Calderwood had some skills in this area but I believe the players he favoured all felt loyal to Jimmy rather than the team or the club and while the spirit was good to begin with there were quite a lot of players with ego's they failed to leave in the dressing room.

 

McGhee was terrible at this. Alienating players I believe.

 

So let me ask you for:

 

1. your thoughts on the above

2. do you think knox and broon can do this given time?

3. who you would suggest as a manager who can do just this?

[K-9]

Agree. But last manager tried to do this and instilled some professionalism in the squad but it seems it was too much too soon and player power took over when the toys came out after the player free reign to do what they wanted was taken away (midweek drinking, Sunday training after loss etc

[Redstar]

I was listening to sportsound the other day and the halfwit Yogi was talking about the need to build the correct culture within a team/club. Now for a moment I scoffed thinking "aye Yogi, just like you did at Hibs eh?" but I stopped myself as he went on.

 

He mentioned how when he was at Hibs he recalls none of the payers had ego's once on the the pitch and how they likened taking the field to "putting on your boiler suit" - he'd been having this conversation with John Collins who agreed it was a massive problem now. In other words players don't realise they have a job to do, which requires their absolute focus, hard work. A working class ethic if you like.

 

He also pointed out how quickly Ferguson will remove the sort of players who stop showing that commitment from his team having taken years to get a squad where all the players think that way. (ie Beckam, Ronaldo, Tevez).

 

Now I don't often agree with the big galoot but I have to say regardless of Yogi's ability to actually achieve this as a manager I think he has a very good point.

 

In fact I'd say this is one of Afc biggest failures as a club in the last few years and explains why we don't get the value for the wages we spend.

 

This being my theory - i'd like to suggest that we can't build this culture overnight. Or even over 1 season and it would take a very good coaching team some time to do this, weeding out the weaker players or the prima donna's and bringing the correct attitude to the squad.

 

My conclusion from that is what we require is a manager capable of man management more than a tactician or "cheque book" manager. Someone whose greatest skill is in motivating and managing the personalities.

 

Calderwood had some skills in this area but I believe the players he favoured all felt loyal to Jimmy rather than the team or the club and while the spirit was good to begin with there were quite a lot of players with ego's they failed to leave in the dressing room.

 

McGhee was terrible at this. Alienating players I believe.

 

So let me ask you for:

 

1. your thoughts on the above

2. do you think knox and broon can do this given time?

3. who you would suggest as a manager who can do just this?

 

A possible and cheap fix could be the appointment of John Hughes as Head Coach (If he's willing).

Keep Brown as the media "talking head" but give Hughes free reign to sort out the first team with a bit of much needed hard discipline. .

It's not going to break the bank (Hughes on a year contract) if he comes good...appoint as manager when Broon retires??...Might work and if it doesn't...it hasn't cost anything near the price of removing Brown and Knox

[V for Vendetta]

Agree. But last manager tried to do this and instilled some professionalism in the squad but it seems it was too much too soon and player power took over when the toys came out after the player free reign to do what they wanted was taken away (midweek drinking, Sunday training after loss etc

 

Agree on McGhee. But I think part of the problem was he had the right idea to instill discipline but failed to have the respect or man management tools to make this work.

 

Jimmy actually had a system that sort of worked to a point. Players were very loyal to him and performed quite well for a while. Unfortunately it was not really a lasting legacy for the club.

 

A possible and cheap fix could be the appointment of John Hughes as Head Coach (If he's willing).

Keep Brown as the media "talking head" but give Hughes free reign to sort out the first team with a bit of much needed hard discipline. .

It's not going to break the bank (Hughes on a year contract) if he comes good...appoint as manager when Broon retires??...Might work and if it doesn't...it hasn't cost anything near the price of removing Brown and Knox

 

Wooooaaah there. I'm not sure i'd go as far as bringing yogi in. I think his argument was correct but I think he totally failed to do this at some of his clubs in the past.

 

John Collins perhaps?

[tup]

It can be done rapidly, by getting inside the minds of those involved, but I agree broadly with the sentiment, it depends how long a particular culture has been allowed to take root, the longer the laxness, the longer the fix.

 

It's all about controlling the players 24/7. They should not have free time, at all, they should be doing things for the club that employs them every waking hour.

[Redstar]

 

 

 

 

Wooooaaah there. I'm not sure i'd go as far as bringing yogi in. I think his argument was correct but I think he totally failed to do this at some of his clubs in the past.

 

John Collins perhaps?

V I am thinking that John Collins is way above our budget and I doubt he would accept a Head Coach role...This type of arrangment works well for Spurs Redknapp is the figure head with Joe Jordan taking training...while I'm not suggesting Hughes is of the calibre of Jordan...I do think in the present climate Hughes is a valid suggestion as a bit of steel to gee up the current playing staff at Todders

[K-9]

It's all about controlling the players 24/7. They should not have free time, at all, they should be doing things for the club that employs them every waking hour.

didn't take long for yet another thread to be hijacked with yet more pedancy!!

[V for Vendetta]

It can be done rapidly, by getting inside the minds of those involved, but I agree broadly with the sentiment, it depends how long a particular culture has been allowed to take root, the longer the laxness, the longer the fix.

 

It's all about controlling the players 24/7. They should not have free time, at all, they should be doing things for the club that employs them every waking hour.

 

Key thing for me was the attitude when taking the field. Totally agree off the field, training the whole thing is part of it. But right now and for the last few years when taking the field our players do not seem to realise they need to earn the right to play decent football every time they take to the field.

 

What made me think about Hughes comments was his example and reference to Collins. For a by the numbers clogger like to Hughes to recognise that a nancy boy, egotistical character like Collins adopted exactly the same "roll the sleeves up and earn it" attitude as he did when they stepped on the field.

[tup]

didn't take long for yet another thread to be hijacked with yet more pedancy!!

 

Eh?

[tup]

Key thing for me was the attitude when taking the field. Totally agree off the field, training the whole thing is part of it. But right now and for the last few years when taking the field our players do not seem to realise they need to earn the right to play decent football every time they take to the field.

 

What made me think about Hughes comments was his example and reference to Collins. For a by the numbers clogger like to Hughes to recognise that a nancy boy, egotistical character like Collins adopted exactly the same "roll the sleeves up and earn it" attitude as he did when they stepped on the field.

 

In Russia and Italy for example the players are taken away from their families for very long spells, they get no free time, and are watched constantly.

 

Because they are professionals and take their job seriously.

 

Not in Scotland however, the whole culture is to drink and get as much time off as you can wangle.

[Dandyesque]

V, I posted as much on an earlier thread.

 

It's one of the main reasons I think we should keep the current management team if we can.

 

Knox is the man for the task IMO.

 

Brooner into DoF role if we have to change.

 

Wullie to try again at the chipper caper

[Redstar]

Key thing for me was the attitude when taking the field. Totally agree off the field, training the whole thing is part of it. But right now and for the last few years when taking the field our players do not seem to realise they need to earn the right to play decent football every time they take to the field.

 

What made me think about Hughes comments was his example and reference to Collins. For a by the numbers clogger like to Hughes to recognise that a nancy boy, egotistical character like Collins adopted exactly the same "roll the sleeves up and earn it" attitude as he did when they stepped on the field.

 

I think your being hard on Hughes...yes he's nae the sharpest tool in the box but you could never deny his comitment and attitude as a player...Thinking about it he's not to dis-similar to Jordan in that respect...He's not got the ego problem that Collins would bring either...As before it's not going to break the bank to find out.

[Henry]

didn't take long for yet another thread to be hijacked with yet more pedancy!!

 

[robbo]

 

Wooooaaah there. I'm not sure i'd go as far as bringing yogi in. I think his argument was correct but I think he totally failed to do this at some of his clubs in the past.

 

 

actually loled there.

 

however i dont think the suggestion is as wild and out there as being made out. yogi is a pleb, no mistaking that. but arguably what football is in need of is hard, task master coaches. player power is a popular topic just now and they arent going to lose this power anytime soon. however, if a provincial club such as ourselves is seen to have good quality coaches who demand the very best and dont want to work with dickheads, it surely becomes a more attractive prospect to both young players who want to learn from the best, but also older players (who arent pricks themselves) and want to be part of a team that wants to work hard safe in the knowledge that the diva type wont be welcome.

 

having brown, knox and now the talk of yogi, could be worth an enquiry. but this kind of thing isnt going to work if folk keep mumping and moaning that we should be aiming for top 6 and the current management team are crippling the club. its very much a long term investment so youd have to offer the guys at least 5 year deals and be willing to just accept they will be here for at least 5 full years.

[Dandyesque]

 

I think he means "pedantry".

 

Unless he like those wee booths you get in sex shops (paid and see)

[K-9]

Eh?

Apologies. I thought you were being pedantic again but from other post I see you are not. Can never tell.

 

In ideal world the Russian way would be good but must be some middle ground in-between the two extremes.

[tup]

I think he means "pedantry".

 

Unless he like those wee booths you get in sex shops (paid and see)

 

Yes I think he did indeed mean pedantry.

 

As to what he's getting at, Lord only knows. I'm serious, Scottish fitba needs to get serious, as other nations have already done, before it can be taken seriously again.

 

WITHDRAWN.

[tup]

Apologies. I thought you were being pedantic again but from other post I see you are not. Can never tell.

 

In ideal world the Russian way would be good but must be some middle ground in-between the two extremes.

 

Accepted

 

I'll withdraw my comment about you being a maniac who should never have become a moderator in exchange.

[V for Vendetta]

didn't take long for yet another thread to be hijacked with yet more pedancy!!

 

Settle petal :-)

No real pedancy detected as far as can see.

 

In Russia and Italy for example the players are taken away from their families for very long spells, they get no free time, and are watched constantly.

 

Because they are professionals and take their job seriously.

 

Not in Scotland however, the whole culture is to drink and get as much time off as you can wangle.

 

Ok, fair point. If you put aside the bigger problem with attitudes and professionalism for the moment.

Do you think its possible for us to build a culture where the players AT LEAST recognise that when they play competitive game they have to get stuck and have the correct attitude regardless of how much they love themselves or where they go drinking and shagging during the week.

 

I think it is, with the correct management.

 

Too often when the shit hits the fan our players are seen to be going through the motions and react with petted lips or poor attitude when fans then get on their back. The shouldn't be focusing on that sort of thing when they step on the pitch - they should be focused on getting all the basics correct, working to earn the right to play good football and focusiing 100% on getting that result.

 

I think your being hard on Hughes...yes he's nae the sharpest tool in the box but you could never deny his comitment and attitude as a player...Thinking about it he's not to dis-similar to Jordan in that respect...He's not got the ego problem that Collins would bring either...As before it's not going to break the bank to find out.

 

I probably am. I work with plenty of hibees and bairns fans and few of them rate Hughes as a manager. As a honest talking, hard working professional yes, but manager not so much.

[tup]

Players are leaving Scotland in their droves and then becoming professionals.

 

Adam, Dobbie and Boyd were all overweight heavy drinkers when here, all recently. They've not gone far. All have lost weight, and look fit and lean as a result. Snodgrass is another. He was at Stirling Albion on loan not so long ago and told he had a terrible attitude. That probably translates as he didna agree with the boss and liked to do things his own way.

 

This tells you that we need to address the whole of our game, and those running it. They are neanderthal in attitude and approach. If they won't change, sack them.

 

Le Guen tried it on his own. He was sacked at the insistence of his three main players. Says it all about who holds the power right now. Wrest it away from them by force of will, and strong governance.

 

Those running our game are clueless. I could do a better job.

[Bluto10]

Players are leaving Scotland in their droves and then becoming professionals.

 

Adam, Dobbie and Boyd were all overweight heavy drinkers when here, all recently. They've not gone far. All have lost weight, and look fit and lean as a result. Snodgrass is another. He was at Stirling Albion on loan not so long ago and told he had a terrible attitude. That probably translates as he didna agree with the boss and liked to do things his own way.

 

This tells you that we need to address the whole of our game, and those running it. They are neanderthal in attitude and approach. If they won't change, sack them.

 

Le Guen tried it on his own. He was sacked at the insistence of his three main players. Says it all about who holds the power right now. Wrest it away from them by force of will, and strong governance.

 

Those running our game are clueless. I could do a better job.

 

 

tup, scotland is a pub league.

it shouldnt be, but its run like it is.

 

yet you always blame sky and england for our faults.

 

look closer to home.

 

those running the game.

scottish society.

drinking culture in football teams.

 

there isnt the correct culture in the country and those running the game.

[tup]

yet you always blame sky and england for our faults.

 

 

No I do not, I blame Sky TV and English football for compromising our own fixtures, which is correct.

 

I do not blame them for Scottish society's ills, an entirely different issue, which is deep rooted and has been there long before Sky TV.

 

Just this week we have had a clamour for a convicted drug user to be included in the Scotland squad, on the basis that he's scoring goals.

 

No thank you. He should never play for Scotland again, it sends out the wrong message entirely, and I think Levein understands that, or I hope he does.

[Coopy100]

No I do not, I blame Sky TV and English football for compromising our own fixtures, which is correct.

 

I do not blame them for Scottish society's ills, an entirely different issue, which is deep rooted and has been there long before Sky TV.

 

Just this week we have had a clamour for a convicted drug user to be included in the Scotland squad, on the basis that he's scoring goals.

 

No thank you. He should never play for Scotland again, it sends out the wrong message entirely, and I think Levein understands that, or I hope he does.

Without getting into the SkyTV debate did o conner actually get done for drug use? If so I agree then he should not be considered. I also agree about the way fitba is run in this country.

[Bluto10]

No I do not, I blame Sky TV and English football for compromising our own fixtures, which is correct.

 

I do not blame them for Scottish society's ills, an entirely different issue, which is deep rooted and has been there long before Sky TV.

 

Just this week we have had a clamour for a convicted drug user to be included in the Scotland squad, on the basis that he's scoring goals.

 

No thank you. He should never play for Scotland again, it sends out the wrong message entirely, and I think Levein understands that, or I hope he does.

 

 

they could do that, not play him.

 

but the problem goes deeper.

 

so many problems, from grass route training, to parents on the sidelines, to xboxes, to drugs, to the old firm, to the laws on racism/sectarianism, to the top brass at the sfa.

 

dropping drug users like tattoo boy prob wont change a thing.

[Henry]

they could do that, not play him.

 

but the problem goes deeper.

 

so many problems, from grass route training, to parents on the sidelines, to xboxes, to drugs, to the old firm, to the laws on racism/sectarianism, to the top brass at the sfa.

 

dropping drug users like tattoo boy prob wont change a thing.

 

It's taking the grass route that probably landed O'Connor in this situation.

[tup]

dropping drug users like tattoo boy prob wont change a thing.

 

But playing him would send the message that such things are fully acceptable to those at the highest echelons of our game.

 

We're not that bad, in terms of those other issues, they are widespread, and not confined to Scotland by any means.

 

It's all about strong leadership. At the moment we have NONE. It's just faceless dummies who do nothing in the top positions. They don't even have the stomach for a decent debate, as I found out recently.

 

They take the money, acquiesce to Rangers and Celtic and hang the game as a whole in the country out to dry. They do no good. In fact they cause harm to be frank, because we have big problems which they refuse to acknowledge let alone address.

[Bluto10]

But playing him would send the message that such things are fully acceptable to those at the highest echelons of our game.

 

We're not that bad, in terms of those other issues, they are widespread, and not confined to Scotland by any means.

 

It's all about strong leadership. At the moment we have NONE. It's just faceless dummies who do nothing in the top positions. They don't even have the stomach for a decent debate, as I found out recently.

 

They take the money, acquiesce to Rangers and Celtic and hang the game as a whole in the country out to dry. They do no good. In fact they cause harm to be frank, because we have big problems which they refuse to acknowledge let alone address.

 

 

hhhmmmm.

 

are sports clubs in the uK ever busy?

 

over here the hockey clubs are packed.

same with footy clubs.

kids are eager to play sport.

 

and playing with jonny foreigner at football. its amamzing the skill they have. even the chinks and the kazakzs - nae exactly football hotbeds.

the brits i play with are all the run about blast the ball as hard as possible types, like me.

 

we used to creat good players as often as england probably.

 

they too suffer from uk society ills.

[tup]

hhhmmmm.

 

are sports clubs in the uK ever busy?

 

 

Yes, packed.

 

However we have a chronic lack of facility and investment.

 

Yet, bizarrely, English football has vast sums of money swilling around it. None of it does the UK any good.

 

Arseholes like Tevez get it. Why?

[Bluto10]

Yes, packed.

 

However we have a chronic lack of facility and investment.

 

Yet, bizarrely, English football has vast sums of money swilling around it. None of it does the UK any good.

 

Arseholes like Tevez get it. Why?

 

 

really?

 

i reckon they wont be

not compared to otehr countries.

kids to busy stabbing folk and smoking dope in britian and hanging round in gangs.

[Henry]

very, very interesting point

 

I think you should expand on it MT.