Amanda Knox

[Sonoftherock]

No, not based on the evidence available, although it is convenient and palatable for white America and middle England to think that way.

 

There were clearly three people involved, they were all pals with Guede, he didna just take an eppie and turn psycho, he was involved in something that went too far, as were Knox and Sollecito, undeniably.

 

Anything else is just splitting hairs, the correct thing was to jail them all, but now 2 are out, shockerooni to those who appreciate how the world really works, in the background, and not the lies, spin and propaganda pumped out to media outlets to give the masses their bogeyman in true Hollywood schmaltz ridden fashion.

 

No. That is bullshit. What evidence? There is none FFS!! You use the word 'undeniably' however, the exact converse is the case and has been proven as such in a court of law.

 

You're havvering Tup.

[Tommy]

 

 

I'm trying to keep an open mind too, but the more I read about this case, the more I am compelled am I to believe Knox was not the murdered.

 

 

 

The more i read about the case the more i'm compelled to agree with you.

[tup]

No. That is bullshit. What evidence? There is none FFS!! You use the word 'undeniably' however, the exact converse is the case and has been proven as such in a court of law.

 

You're havvering Tup.

 

They smashed their own window to make it look like a break in. Blood soaked towels were put in a bath with cleaning fluids before any authorities got near the place. Attempts had been made to clean other parts of the flat.

 

To name but three pieces of massively incriminating evidence.

 

What on earth makes you say there was no evidence?

 

It's not me talking bullshit I'm afraid to say, you appear either naive to the unexplained facts or totally dismissive of them, either way, you're havering.

[Monkey]

No, not based on the evidence available, although it is convenient and palatable for white America and middle England to think that way.

 

There were clearly three people involved, they were all pals with Guede, he didna just take an eppie and turn psycho, he was involved in something that went too far, as were Knox and Sollecito, undeniably.

 

Anything else is just splitting hairs, the correct thing was to jail them all, but now 2 are out, shockerooni to those who appreciate how the world really works, in the background, and not the lies, spin and propaganda pumped out to media outlets to give the masses their bogeyman in true Hollywood schmaltz ridden fashion.

Evidence available?

I accept I haven't read everything about this case but my understanding of the position is that Guede had previously been arrested during a break in to another premises where he had been found in possession of a knife, been fingerprinted and released for that. His bloody fingerprints were found in the room with the body and his DNA was all over it, inside and out.

He was then caught in Germany having fled the country right after the murder. His initial statement to the police was that he had met Kercher in a bar and had gone back to her place to fool around as there was no-one else there. He then felt unwell and went to the bathroom but put his ipod on so did not hear anyone else come in.

His story then developed, initially he said he came out of the bathroom and found Kercher bleeding to death and tried to help her but then panicked and ran. He later said he came out and found an Italian man standing over her and they fought before the Italian man escaped but by his appeal he said he heard Kercher and Knox arguing about money before he saw Knox leave. This third version I think appeared coincidentally after Knox had been convicted.

I don't think Knox and Sollecito had ever met Guede.

 

Bungled break in ( a window in the flat had been smashed and another room ransacked) leading to sexual assault and murder. There's a believable motive.

[Sonoftherock]

They smashed their own window to make it look like a break in. Blood soaked towels were put in a bath with cleaning fluids before any authorities got near the place. Attempts had been made to clean other parts of the flat.

 

To name but three pieces of massively incriminating evidence.

 

What on earth makes you say there was no evidence?

 

It's not me talking bullshit I'm afraid to say, you appear either naive to the unexplained facts or totally dismissive of them, either way, you're havering.

 

Who did? Cleaning fluids would not have been enough to absolve all the DNA evidence. In this day and age it would have been easy to prove with DNA analysis. I'm a chemist myself, and I know it'd have been easy and routine to extract the DNA from any residual cleaning fluid. The crime scene would have been absolutely hoaching with their DNA. These were not master criminals we are dealing with.

 

If they'd got the right person here, it'd have been a stick on. I think, as time progressed, the investigators began to realise this and if you read many of the reports, it's clear that they began to panic and became desperate!

 

As I said before, you're the one who's havvering. The evidence, or lack there of, is damning and ultimately, she we. You've convicted the girl on the basis that she looked a bit shifty! It's laughable.

[Sonoftherock]

Evidence available?

I accept I haven't read everything about this case but my understanding of the position is that Guede had previously been arrested during a break in to another premises where he had been found in possession of a knife, been fingerprinted and released for that. His bloody fingerprints were found in the room with the body and his DNA was all over it, inside and out.

He was then caught in Germany having fled the country right after the murder. His initial statement to the police was that he had met Kercher in a bar and had gone back to her place to fool around as there was no-one else there. He then felt unwell and went to the bathroom but put his ipod on so did not hear anyone else come in.

His story then developed, initially he said he came out of the bathroom and found Kercher bleeding to death and tried to help her but then panicked and ran. He later said he came out and found an Italian man standing over her and they fought before the Italian man escaped but by his appeal he said he heard Kercher and Knox arguing about money before he saw Knox leave. This third version I think appeared coincidentally after Knox had been convicted.

I don't think Knox and Sollecito had ever met Guede.

 

Bungled break in ( a window in the flat had been smashed and another room ransacked) leading to sexual assault and murder. There's a believable motive.

 

From what I'd read, Guede was quite a well known person among the student community of Perugia. Whether Know and Sollecito knew him well is uncertain. If Guede had been previously sleeping with Kercher, then they probably did know each other. However, as Tup claims, they were all pals together.

 

I'm still pretty open minded about the whole situation, but there is certainly far more evidence and you can construct a fairly compelling argument to suggest that Guede was the murderer, under the circumstances you suggest above... and that he fled the scene after murdering her. Perhaps, when it came down the crunch, Kerchar turned him down and said no... he might have reacted violently to this?

 

Knox and her boyfriend were first on the scene, to discover the bloodied crime scene, after spending the evening at her boyfriends apartment. They reported the disturbance and we went from there.

[tup]

Why were the police not alerted until break of dawn if Kercher had been murdered before midnight and possibly as early as 8.00 the evening before?

 

If there had been a break in they would surely have been called instantly one would expect.

 

I'm not damning her on the basis she looked shifty, I'm saying there's compelling circumstancial evidence to indicate she was heavily involved.

[Monkey]

From what I'd read, Guede was quite a well known person among the student community of Perugia. Whether Know and Sollecito knew him well is uncertain. If Guede had been previously sleeping with Kercher, then they probably did know each other. However, as Tup claims, they were all pals together.

 

I'm still pretty open minded about the whole situation, but there is certainly far more evidence and you can construct a fairly compelling argument to suggest that Guede was the murderer, under the circumstances you suggest above... and that he fled the scene after murdering her. Perhaps, when it came down the crunch, Kerchar turned him down and said no... he might have reacted violently to this?

 

Knox and her boyfriend were first on the scene, to discover the bloodied crime scene, after spending the evening at her boyfriends apartment. They reported the disturbance and we went from there.

One thing is though, the people who were with Kercher before she was killed deny that she was with any guy at all that night which contradicts Guede's story that they had met and decided to go back to her house.

 

I was unaware that there was evidence that they "were all pals together" as you state.

[Monkey]

Why were the police not alerted until break of dawn if Kercher had been murdered before midnight and possibly as early as 8.00 the evening before?

 

If there had been a break in they would surely have been called instantly one would expect.

 

I'm not damning her on the basis she looked shifty, I'm saying there's compelling circumstancial evidence to indicate she was heavily involved.

Because Knox and her boyfriend spent the night a his flat, the other two girls who shared with them were away for the weekend as were the 4 guys who lived downstairs. The police were called when Knox returned home.

[tup]

Because Knox and her boyfriend spent the night a his flat, the other two girls who shared with them were away for the weekend as were the 4 guys who lived downstairs. The police were called when Knox returned home.

 

Yet someone else seen them that night with Guede and Kercher

[Sonoftherock]

Why were the police not alerted until break of dawn if Kercher had been murdered before midnight and possibly as early as 8.00 the evening before?

 

If there had been a break in they would surely have been called instantly one would expect.

 

I'm not damning her on the basis she looked shifty, I'm saying there's compelling circumstancial evidence to indicate she was heavily involved.

 

The Military Police, were as far as I understand, sent to the scence immediately. Unfortunately, the Caribinieri, were not brought in until a bit later - which is a pity as they'd have been able to deal with situation more effectively. As I said before, if the state police has taken her body temperature, which is the first thing the caribinieri would have done, it's highly likely Knox and her boyfriend would have had an alibi. As it were, the police left the body alone and didn't go near it, based on a primal fear of contaminating the body with DNA. These guys were ill equiped to deal with the situation and were basically out of their depth.

 

I was open-minded before I started to read about this case, but the more I learn about it, the less I believe Knox was involved. Early on in the case they pinned the tail on the wrong donkey and as time went by and the story and trail of evidence began to unfold, it became apparent that mistakes had been made. The fact that mistakes have been made is undeniable - and there are quotes in various media reports from the caribinieri and the principal investigator in Perugia to support this. We aren't talking about a Madeline McCann style situation here - where we have the sun and NOTW blaming the "bungling" portuguese police.

[tup]

But we all know how susceptible the Italians are to a 'brown envelope', they would admit their granny was a prostitute if their was a euro in it for them.

[Sonoftherock]

Because Knox and her boyfriend spent the night a his flat, the other two girls who shared with them were away for the weekend as were the 4 guys who lived downstairs. The police were called when Knox returned home.

 

I'm not sure of the exact chronology, but Know and her boyfriend, I think returned back to the flat in the late evening - with the intention of taking a show. The plumbing at her boyfriends appartment was fucked and when you had a shower it flooded the bathroom. I think this is when they discovered the crime scene and called the Police. The caribinieri were not brought in by the state police until the early hours of the morning....

 

I'm not 100% sure if the above is correct in terms of timing, I'm trying to find some quotes...

[StandFree1982]

I'm trying to keep an open mind too, but the more I read about this case, the more I am compelled am I to believe Knox was not the murdered.

I think this much was obvious SOTR! otherwise they have done a fantastic job covering it up! Jim Henson would have been proud of that work.

[Sonoftherock]

I think this much was obvious SOTR! otherwise they have done a fantastic job covering it up! Jim Henson would have been proud of that work.

 

This is why I find this such an interesting case. Nobody really knows exactly what happened that night, other than that an innocent young women was murdered in cold blood. A recurring theme in these discussion has been regarding the way it's been handled by the Italian authorities, and as other have mentioned and on the surface it is perhaps too easy just to lay the blame on their doorstep, Madeline McCann style.... but for me, the more I read about this, the more I find myself doing just that! This was a poorly constructed crime and everything points towards an impulse killing, by someone who didn't know what they were doing. The pathologists reports states that there were about 47 stab wounds and it took a number of blows to finish her off, as the culprit basically didn't know what they were doing! This was not carefully planned and it certainly wasn't well executed. It should have been easy to nail the culprit.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if one day this story was made into movie! Would be in the worst possible taste though!

 

Anyway, it's past my bedtime....

[Chrisyboy81]

It seems that whatever way you look at it, the police fucked up royally. If the state police had got there first and followed the correct procedure, it could have either exonerated Knox or condemned her. One thing I also find interesting is the reports that there were 2 different wound sizes/shapes indicating 2 knives, so possibly 2 perpetrators. This also opens up the possibility that Guede could well have done it with the involvement of Knox and her boyfriend. It'll not go away this case though, that's for sure. People will be interested in it for a long time to come.

[fifered]

I don't know a lot about the case, however I can't help feeling some of the comments are a little unfair. She was aquitted, it couldn't be proven beyond reasonable doubt that she was guilty, therefore she's innocent.

 

I was reading a little bit about the case on the news this morning and the telegraphy have just released an interesting article, trying to sum up the evidence, or lack of it.... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/8803077/Amanda-Knox-Guilty-or-innocent-five-reasons-why.html

 

Now, I'm no legal expert, but there doesn't seem to be a solid case supporting either side here.

 

I do agree that the media have a lot to answer for, whipping this whole thing up into a frenzy! Knox has been portrayed by some outlets as an evil she-devil! You only have to read some of the comments above in thread above, folk saying they hope she's assasinated! Way over the top!

 

From my perspective, you are talking about two youngsters who'd had a few drinks and been smoking some week, who certainly aren't criminal masterminds! If they had murdered her, I imagine it would have been a piece of cake to seal a conviction. The department across the corridor from where I work, do loads of forensic work for the australian police force and speaking to a couple of them at coffee this morning, certainly in terms of DNA evidence, even 4 years ago it would have been easy to seal a water-tight conviction on a murder weapon that would have been teeming with DNA.

 

I feel sorry for both parties, Amanda Knox and the victims family, in this whole sorry mess. I hope they can find some answers to this one.

That is the exact reason that I think she is innocent. These days if you just sneeze or sometimes even breath over something you're DNA will get you done. If you've been involved in a sex game as alleged by the prosecution then there would be so much DNA floating about that room even the Italians could have made it stick. Am I not right in saying that there was no DNA evidence at all for Knox (or was it her boyfriend) in the room.

 

To me it was quite obviously the guy Guide that did this. The fact that he got his sentence halved on appeal and the prosecution were trying to get Knox's increased is a joke.

 

A few folk have said on here that the way she was portraying herself was a disgrace etc etc. Presuming that she was totally innocent, should she not be allowed to do whatever is necessary to get off? I'm dam sure I would, put yourself in her position, banged up for 26 years for a murder you didn't do.

[Dandyesque]

That is the exact reason that I think she is innocent. These days if you just sneeze or sometimes even breath over something you're DNA will get you done. If you've been involved in a sex game as alleged by the prosecution then there would be so much DNA floating about that room even the Italians could have made it stick. Am I not right in saying that there was no DNA evidence at all for Knox (or was it her boyfriend) in the room.

 

 

 

Something not quite right here.

 

Am I the only one who thinks thinks that the "fact" there was none of Knox's DNA present in her flatmate's bedroom is somewhat unlikely?

 

I mean, did the Kercher girl live in a bubble or something?

[diamondsr4ever]

The more you think about it and look at it the only way they could have been witness to the killing was by being in another room, maybe they heard what was going on and this was a turn on to them, they had sex, walked away and returned the next day...but why would the guy put himself in the frame knowing that knox and her boyfriend could put him at the crime scene, dosent make sense.

 

The only argument you could have is the 3 of them planned her murder for sexual fantasy or reasons, but there would have to be a history or background of the same thing, does this just happen?

 

there just dosent seem to be much evidence, motive or DNA to support their conviction.

[diamondsr4ever]

Something not quite right here.

 

Am I the only one who thinks thinks that the "fact" there was none of Knox's DNA present in her flatmate's bedroom is somewhat unlikely?

 

I mean, did the Kercher girl live in a bubble or something?

 

how much time would you spend in a flatmates room? also you would think the Kercher herself would have had a vibe that things were strange with Knox and made people aware of that

[Sonoftherock]

Something not quite right here.

 

Am I the only one who thinks thinks that the "fact" there was none of Knox's DNA present in her flatmate's bedroom is somewhat unlikely?

 

I mean, did the Kercher girl live in a bubble or something?

 

There was "none" in terms of levels required to implicate someone as the murderer.

 

There were negligible amounts recovered from certain areas. Consistent with sharing a flat with someone. The prosecution attempted to use this during the first stage of the case, however, as you could imagine the results lacked reproducibility are were therefore disregarded.

[Coopy100]

Only question I have is where are you getting the notion that Meridith Kercher was out getting cocked all the time SOTR? I've seen nothing to suggest this.

[Scarface]

So, if Amanda Knox wasn't responsible for the murder of Meredith Kercher, then who was?

 

I'll tell you who...

 

[Henry]

I wonder if Knoxy is going to sort out her eyebrows now she's out.

[beer gut]

They have the killer. He is in Jail. He got 30 years then it was reduced when the Italian Prosecuter (Mignini) spoke to him in jail. Coincidence?

 

IMO it's the the Italian prosecutor Miginini who should be investigated. He sounds like a corrupt bastard.

 

Read the below and decide for yourself/

 

link

 

link

 

I know the Kercher family have been heartbroken but they need to take a step back and look at the facts rather than push on with a case that was flawed from the start. It could come back and bite them in the arse if they do.

[fifered]

Something not quite right here.

 

Am I the only one who thinks thinks that the "fact" there was none of Knox's DNA present in her flatmate's bedroom is somewhat unlikely?

 

I mean, did the Kercher girl live in a bubble or something?

I don't think so. As SOR said, these two were not criminal masterminds. There is no way on earth they would have been involved in some sex game and not left a wealth of DNA everywhere, even if they had tried to clean it up. These days it doesn't matter how much you try and clean blood away, forensic examination can always find a trace and as far as I'm aware there is not even a suggestion of blood being found on any piece of clothing at all of Knox or her boyfriend and there is no evidence of other bodily fluids belonging to them on the lassie who was killed, or any cross contamination of fibres anywhere between anyone of them and any article in the bedroom. To clean that up would be utterly impossible. If they had planned it under those circumstances and been able to pull it off, they would have been easier disposing of the body and trying to write it off as a disappearance!

 

I'm not normally one who jumps on the foreign Police are bastards thing that a lot of the British press often do, but in this case they were total bastards. For god sake they even tried to sue Amanda Knox for slander for saying that they forced her into a some sort of confession or something. The Italians were at it. God knows why though because they caught the guy that actually did it and could have stopped there with him serving his original 30 year sentence and everyone would have been satisfied that justice had been done.

[GK55]

They have the killer. He is in Jail. He got 30 years then it was reduced when the Italian Prosecuter (Mignini) spoke to him in jail. Coincidence?

 

IMO it's the the Italian prosecutor Miginini who should be investigated. He sounds like a corrupt bastard.

 

Read the below and decide for yourself/

 

link

 

link

 

I know the Kercher family have been heartbroken but they need to take a step back and look at the facts rather than push on with a case that was flawed from the start. It could come back and bite them in the arse if they do.

 

2 very good links there.

[vanderark14]

Foxy Knoxy's acquittal overturned. Retrial required.

 

It's hard to have a worthwhile opinion of her guilt or otherwise without knowing the facts.

 

All I know is that my instinct is screaming that she's a horrible individual, formerly a stuck up yank bitch.

 

Not so stuck up any more after her incarceration but still a horrible looking bitch.

 

aye thats all fine but would you???

[tup]

She looks evil.

 

But probably would still do her tbh, long as she didna have a knife on her.

[Tommy]

She looks evil.

 

But probably would still do her tbh, long as she didna have a knife on her.

 

Aye she does come across as a cruel calculating bitch.

I doubt she'd let you do her Tup.