How The Level Playing Field Was Dismantled?

[V for Vendetta]

I don't know the exact accuracy of this (and don't want to waste time verifying but sounds about right to me.

 

Many of us already are fully aware of this but its quite stark when you see it like this:

 

Salary Capping (maximum wage), Gate-sharing & equitable sharing of league/cup prize money help ensure healthy competition in Scottish football & record attendance levels at every ground.

 

from 1946-1965 Rangers & Celtic win 12 titles v Other Clubs win 8 titles (Hibs 3, Hearts 2, Aberdeen, Dundee & Killie 1 each)

 

in 1960-61 the footballers maximum wage (salary capping) is abolished in Scotland

 

from 1966-1985 Rangers & Celtic win 16 titles v Other Clubs win 4 titles (Aberdeen 3, Dundee Utd 1)

[Redstar]

I don't know the exact accuracy of this (and don't want to waste time verifying but sounds about right to me.

 

Many of us already are fully aware of this but its quite stark when you see it like this:

 

Salary Capping (maximum wage), Gate-sharing & equitable sharing of league/cup prize money help ensure healthy competition in Scottish football & record attendance levels at every ground.

 

from 1946-1965 Rangers & Celtic win 12 titles v Other Clubs win 8 titles (Hibs 3, Hearts 2, Aberdeen, Dundee & Killie 1 each)

 

in 1960-61 the footballers maximum wage (salary capping) is abolished in Scotland

 

from 1966-1985 Rangers & Celtic win 16 titles v Other Clubs win 4 titles (Aberdeen 3, Dundee Utd 1)

[V for Vendetta]

Wage capping is probably the only way to get some sort of level playing field....unfortunatly this would have to be policed fairly stringently...

 

There was a fairly longwinded debate on the RTC blog comments today between the guy who posted the bit above and 2 or 3 others who spat the dummy because he suggested gate receipts should be shared for league games. Say 60-40 split.

 

The people argueing with him kept banging on about Rangers and Celtic fans paying to see their teams not the oppostion so the opposition should get no share of that money.

 

I have to say I just could not get their argument at all - they were totally adamant but as far as I could see talking total shite.

 

Are they suggesting OF fans would pay to watch Rangers/Celtic effectively run about a pitch in a training session by themselves? I don't think so. What they pay for is the pathetic glory hunting of watching their massively funded team beat a side with a fraction of the financial muscle. So if they don't have teams to play against each week WTF is there to pay for?

 

Seriously OF fans are so arrogant, selfish and self serving its not true. They cannot, will not see the woods for the trees.

 

They are like spoilt little kids who only want to play a game if the only possible outcome is that they win. Like 3 year old kids who have to be humoured and allowed to win just to keep the peace. They are quite happy to watch completely uneven, unsporting contests week in week out as long as they never have to ever be on the losing side. And even then they still fcking cheat at every single opportunity.

 

Those sort of OF fans really make me wish the whole of Scottish Football would just fcking implode forever and then I'd never have to consider their ill thought purile pish EVER again.

 

Sorry, rant over.

[daytripping]

You go to football to be entertained by two teams, those teams should share the gate receipts.

 

It might even work against Aberdeen but that's what should happen.

[Bobby Connor]

You go to football to be entertained by two teams, those teams should share the gate receipts.

 

It might even work against Aberdeen but that's what should happen.

 

Aye, but the amount of times you here Aberdeen fans refer to other sides as 'Diddy Teams' on here... 'we should get more money... blah de blah... [insert hypocritical statement]' is, frankly Mr Daytripping, embarrassing.

 

Concept of fairness for all lost on a lot of people, and their attitude is no better than OF fans.

 

FWIW. Totally agree, for the good of the game the greed needs to stop.

[RTYD]

I don't know the exact accuracy of this (and don't want to waste time verifying but sounds about right to me.

 

Many of us already are fully aware of this but its quite stark when you see it like this:

 

Salary Capping (maximum wage), Gate-sharing & equitable sharing of league/cup prize money help ensure healthy competition in Scottish football & record attendance levels at every ground.

 

from 1946-1965 Rangers & Celtic win 12 titles v Other Clubs win 8 titles (Hibs 3, Hearts 2, Aberdeen, Dundee & Killie 1 each)

 

in 1960-61 the footballers maximum wage (salary capping) is abolished in Scotland

 

from 1966-1985 Rangers & Celtic win 16 titles v Other Clubs win 4 titles (Aberdeen 3, Dundee Utd 1)

[Crossbow]

More fool the other clubs for allowing it to happen.

 

 

 

It's about time that Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee United, Killie, Motherwell, et al grew a massive pair and said enough is enough and either kicked these two cunts out or completely change the TV money deal where 75% is shared equally and the balance of 25% is determined by league placing, as well as making sure that home teams are compensated for the loss of gate money at televised games.

 

I still adhere to the idea that winning the league is about the glory and honour of it, not about an extra wedge of tv money. Divide the money equally - teams will still have their own revenues - I'd divide gate money evenly between sides too (and you could make an argument for pulling it all together and dividing it evenly across the whole league too). The league does not live and die on 1 or 2 teams, everyone needs to participate - they should all get an even share of the spoils. Then we might actually see competition.

[StandFree1982]

I still adhere to the idea that winning the league is about the glory and honour of it, not about an extra wedge of tv money. Divide the money equally - teams will still have their own revenues - I'd divide gate money evenly between sides too (and you could make an argument for pulling it all together and dividing it evenly across the whole league too). The league does not live and die on 1 or 2 teams, everyone needs to participate - they should all get an even share of the spoils. Then we might actually see competition.

I can't think of any other sport or competition where the winner gets the same prize money as someone who ended up last. I agree with the sentiment, but I doubt that would EVER happen.

[Crossbow]

I can't think of any other sport or competition where the winner gets the same prize money as someone who ended up last. I agree with the sentiment, but I doubt that would EVER happen.

 

I didn't realise the tv money was prize money - do the sponsors not give the prize money?

 

The fight at the bottom is probably more exciting and unpredictable than the title challenge anyway and makes for "better" tv.

[Dandyesque]

I can't think of any other sport or competition where the winner gets the same prize money as someone who ended up last. I agree with the sentiment, but I doubt that would EVER happen.

 

In American Football, the team that finishes bottom of the divisional groups get the first pick of the new draft of players for the following season.

 

OK, it's not the same as the cash, but they do get first dibs on the hot prospects that they can then trade for megabucks later.

 

I posted these ideas in another thread, but perhaps worth revisiting?

 

 

 

 

Ideas for FAIR redistribution of income.

 

1) TV deals to be split equally between clubs. There has to be an understanding that the loss of gates affect the home teams and therefore the lion's share cannot go to the clubs whose home games are never affected (only the OF matches and key end of season fixtures are ever broadcast from Parkhead and Ibrox). Also, the amount of each club's fans watching it is an irrelevance - you need 2 teams to contest a match of football, so each should get equal money.

 

2) Gate money to be split between home and away teams. There has to be an understanding that you need 2 teams to contest a match of football. This might affect a club like AFC more than, say, DAFC but it is FAIRER, and that is waht counts. I doubt if the split would be 50/50 and I'm not sure that would be fair anyway, but a 75/25 or 80/20 split would help clubs gain revenue and cash flow - which can also be a problem to clubs who only get in money once a fortnight.

 

3) Reversal of current prize money allocation. At the moment, the clubs who least need additional investment in their squads (ie the teams that finish 1st and 2nd - interesting that it's not just the 1st placed, or the first 3 teams, but the best 2- I wonder why?) get the most income - the team relegated gets the least. I'd like to see this turned upside down. The relegated team would then get in excess of

[beer gut]

You go to football to be entertained by two teams, those teams should share the gate receipts.

 

It might even work against Aberdeen but that's what should happen.

 

Agree totally. it takes 2 teams to make a football match. ALL revenues should be split 50/50 with the possible exception of merchandising.

 

What i want to know is why do the non OF clubs agree to things that are clearly damaging them in the long term? Who the hell agreed that no OF home games will be shown on TV? This only hurts teams like AFC who don't have as strong a fan base. To me the only OF games that should be on TV are the ones at Parkhead and Ibrox.

 

The other 10 teams need to get together and take back Scottish football before it dies. Stop chasing the cash and start promoting equality, fairness and competition.

[Miglo don]

We all know what should happen but I can't see it! Football the entertainment business..... Except it's not entertaining

[StandFree1982]

I didn't realise the tv money was prize money - do the sponsors not give the prize money?

 

The fight at the bottom is probably more exciting and unpredictable than the title challenge anyway and makes for "better" tv.

I never noticed the "TV Money" part.

 

I agree on that.

 

What I did mean was that prize money in the league should be determined by your position. But should be evened out so 1st and 2nd don't get considerably more than the rest.

[Crossbow]

I never noticed the "TV Money" part.

 

I agree on that.

 

What I did mean was that prize money in the league should be determined by your position. But should be evened out so 1st and 2nd don't get considerably more than the rest.

 

Would also agree with this - not sure how much the sponsorship deal realises but presume most of it goes into the ugly sisters pockets

[V for Vendetta]

Would also agree with this - not sure how much the sponsorship deal realises but presume most of it goes into the ugly sisters pockets

 

All revenues are split the same.

 

ie the top 2 teams get 32% of ALL league revenue. That's TV revenue, sponsorship etc.

[steems]

Don't know how valid all the OP is but record attendances for Rangers and Celtic would not be after their stadiums were re-built.

[EdTheDuck]

The 20 years immediately after the Second World War are entirely unrepresentative of Scottish football.

Why didn

[Dandyesque]

The 20 years immediately after the Second World War are entirely unrepresentative of Scottish football.

Why didn

[Crossbow]

The 20 years immediately after the Second World War are entirely unrepresentative of Scottish football.

Why didn

[madjockmcferson]

Society is better when people are more equal. its the same in football. In the NFL for the past 10 years there has been a team thats finished bottom of their league has made it into the playoffs the following year. Lessons can be learned.

 

Scottish football is die-ing.

[tup]

Football has aye been a team game, that's what brought it to the forefront in sporting terms, it's not fucking golf or tennis or F1 or some other elitist pish, these sports are entirely individual in nature.

 

But now the focus is on the individual big time, clubs are deemed secondary to star players, hence the Tevez debacle.

 

Fergie is considered a 'genius' in England. In actual fact his methodology is basic common sense. It's a team game, we all follow the same guidelines, and those who think they can elevate themselves above that are ejected immediately to preserve harmony. It's a dying mindset unfortunately.

 

Once all the old school managers of this ilk are gone, football will not be worth viewing. Nobody cares about the core values of the game anymore, and are more concerned with getting a huge contract for themselves.

 

Rangers and Celtic have destroyed our game. In the process, they have destroyed themselves. They are as bad as they have ever been despite 26 years of duopoly.

 

But paradoxically they dinna seem to even notice. Self interest governs their every move.

 

Lawwell says we do not have a product worthy of recognition now. I'd love half an hour of his time to sit down with him and outline exactly why that is the fucking case.

 

The huge salaries they pay to average players does nothing for our game, but be sure they are going to batter on with their flawed footballing logistic for evermore.

 

Which means we are basket cases, all other clubs in Scotland.

 

We need to take a dealing to them, expel them, Rangers must be the most detestable club on the planet, with a charge sheet which would make Fred West blush, yet STILL they twist and divert, blaming anyone who is critical of bias against them.

 

They are worse than the fucking mafia this pair, and are similar in that the whole of society needs to see their empire of deceit dismantled.

[dervish]

Way I see it the entry spots into europe should be valued and of set against other benefits of the league. So the fact that two teams always get the euro spots (and all the money that goes with that) should mean they should get whatever they make in europe taken off what they get from the league as winners/runner up or 3rd/4th etc.. So for example should a team who gets £10M in euope get the £300k (or whatever) from the league? Or should it go to the rest of the league who never got in? Or even a %?

[baconman]

Isn't it also ironic that the top two clubs are probably supported by the poorest fan base i.e. highest unemployment, lowest wages, benefits , etc...............?!!

[V for Vendetta]

Isn't it also ironic that the top two clubs are probably supported by the poorest fan base i.e. highest unemployment, lowest wages, benefits , etc...............?!!

 

Our taxes probably pay for half these losers to attend the games every week.

 

When I say our taxes that would of course be the same sort of taxes that the Rangers players and their club avoided for 10 years.

 

THAT is ironic.

[tup]

Whilst it is also guaranteed that a substantial portion of the cost of Murray Park would have been grant funded, again government money, they take but give nothing in return, it's time for the other clubs to stand against them resolutely and either force compromise or expel them for breach of fair play.

[V for Vendetta]

Whilst it is also guaranteed that a substantial portion of the cost of Murray Park would have been grant funded, again government money, they take but give nothing in return, it's time for the other clubs to stand against them resolutely and either force compromise or expel them for breach of fair play.

 

Totally. For me I think they should stay in Scottish Football but they have to realise they can only get stronger as clubs by working in a more altruistic way to make Scottish overall stronger.

 

I think it would actually be quite easy for these 2 clubs to work with the rest of the SPL and put in place a better split of TV money, more sensible voting structure, some division if gate fees with away team (say 75-25% split), and more sensible/fair selection of televised matches so that OF home games are also covered. All of this would be a simple starting point to get things back on the right track.

 

League reconstruction and all that more complicated stuff could be sorted out in the following couple of years. I'd also add restrictions on squad size, total age bill capped at a % of turnover and also a basic bundesliga style financial fair play policy where all clubs submit audited accounts before they are allowed entry to the top league the following season.

 

Just a begining but of course to such horribly selfish, self serving, corrupt and it seems now in fact near criminally run clubs just won't admit when the are wrong.

 

Sport is an environment where capitalistic value's must be controlled for the health of the "product", the greater good is more important than the greed of a few individuals.

[Dandyesque]

Totally. For me I think they should stay in Scottish Football but they have to realise they can only get stronger as clubs by working in a more altruistic way to make Scottish overall stronger.

 

I think it would actually be quite easy for these 2 clubs to work with the rest of the SPL and put in place a better split of TV money, more sensible voting structure, some division if gate fees with away team (say 75-25% split), and more sensible/fair selection of televised matches so that OF home games are also covered. All of this would be a simple starting point to get things back on the right track.

 

League reconstruction and all that more complicated stuff could be sorted out in the following couple of years. I'd also add restrictions on squad size, total age bill capped at a % of turnover and also a basic bundesliga style financial fair play policy where all clubs submit audited accounts before they are allowed entry to the top league the following season.

 

Just a begining but of course to such horribly selfish, self serving, corrupt and it seems now in fact near criminally run clubs just won't admit when the are wrong.

 

Sport is an environment where capitalistic value's must be controlled for the health of the "product", the greater good is more important than the greed of a few individuals.

 

Never going to happen.

 

They'll run off to form an Atlantic Super League or whatever before they'd ever give up on a bean of additional revenue.

 

The clue is in Lawell's wanting to "compete" with the "ridiculous" transfer fees in England.

 

Not wanting to get away from paying them - wanting to compete with them.

 

Wood, trees, etc.

[bobb4you]

For more money to come to the game the product needs to improve. The product is the SPL, not Rangers or Celtic.

[RTYD]

For more money to come to the game the product needs to improve. The product is the SPL, not Rangers or Celtic.

 

 

In terms of competition we as fans of Scottish clubs out with the Bigots would be far better off without them.

 

 

 

Genuine competition would see sponsors trying to get on board and who gives a flying about Europe which is completely corrupt in the playing sense.

[tup]

Surely they are bringing the league into disrepute by constantly running it down and hoping to leave?

 

Surely we have a legal case to horse them on that basis alone?

 

Let's see where you get with NO revenue Peter you delusional arsehole.