Moneyball

[mrstella]

Should we be using this tried and tested technique in the SPL? I for one think that AFC should be amongst the pioneers of this if it's not used already. Certainly beats signing duds like Ifil based on nothing more than 1 game!

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2063956/Premier-League-statistics-Is-Wayne-Rooney-better-Mark-Gower.html

[robbo]

Should we be using this tried and tested technique in the SPL? I for one think that AFC should be amongst the pioneers of this if it's not used already. Certainly beats signing duds like Ifil based on nothing more than 1 game!

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2063956/Premier-League-statistics-Is-Wayne-Rooney-better-Mark-Gower.html

 

its a hugely expensive system. prozone needs something like 300k as a start up because you need at least 16 cameras in various vantage points around the stadium. then you need to employ at least 2 guys to analyse the data that comes out of each match, then have coaches that know what to do with it.

 

its very much the future of football but theres so many things around it that make it infeasible for the majority of non EPL clubs

[mrstella]

its a hugely expensive system. prozone needs something like 300k as a start up because you need at least 16 cameras in various vantage points around the stadium. then you need to employ at least 2 guys to analyse the data that comes out of each match, then have coaches that know what to do with it.

 

its very much the future of football but theres so many things around it that make it infeasible for the majority of non EPL clubs

 

Granted it's not going to be cheap, but we sp**ked more than that on getting rid of a management team. Too much priority is given to short term thinking in the SPL. We need vision, and this is it.

 

Don't ask me how AFC would afford it though, as i have not one clue.

[OddJob]

Laurent Koscielny

[V for Vendetta]

its a hugely expensive system. prozone needs something like 300k as a start up because you need at least 16 cameras in various vantage points around the stadium. then you need to employ at least 2 guys to analyse the data that comes out of each match, then have coaches that know what to do with it.

 

its very much the future of football but theres so many things around it that make it infeasible for the majority of non EPL clubs

 

I don't doubt what your saying for a minute Robbo but I thought I saw somewhere a few years ago, when Calderwood was here, that Afc had a prozone system.

 

Could we have had some cheaper less sophisticated alternative?

 

Can't see us spending big money on this sort of thing when Willie Miller has a whiteboard.

[fine-n-dandy]

I don't doubt what your saying for a minute Robbo but I thought I saw somewhere a few years ago, when Calderwood was here, that Afc had a prozone system.

 

Could we have had some cheaper less sophisticated alternative?

 

Can't see us spending big money on this sort of thing when Willie Miller has a whiteboard.

 

 

Think that was more of a fitness data recorder basically where as this system is a lot more in depth & needs actual people to record things (or view at least) such as success rate % of tackles etc.

 

The system we use or used was just to do with training & fitness cos the players all had to wear the recording devices whilst training.

[Ke1t]

Or we could hire one decent scout?

[minijc]

Aberdeen, as far as I'm aware use it, not sure how much of a system they have through it though, Celtic have a huge system, same with Man u, that's how they found Hernandez, compared him and Rooneys stats, then scouted him properly.

[fine-n-dandy]

Problem is though with this system is that it doesn't help find the real cheap gems that are at the low level clubs cos these clubs cannot afford the systems to log the basic data.

This can ONLY come from old fashioned scouting & word of mouth.

[V for Vendetta]

Oh no doubt as a few have said the complete abandonment of scouting at Afc a few years ago is one of the worst decisions ever made.

 

We are a criminally poor record of unearthing "new" talent over the last 5 years.

[V for Vendetta]

I'm not sure from this article if it was just a trial for 1 match or something they implemented.

 

http://www.aberdeen-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/jimmys_in_the_zone_305183/index.shtml

 

Oh and this is something I have asked a few times on here. But I seemed to recall reading that Calderwood and Miller dreamed up scrapping our scouting network to save money.

 

I'll put it out there that this was one of the worst decisions Miller and Calderwood made and the impact is still affecting the club to this day.

 

Any Caldophile's are criticising the crap signings made by the managers since he left just consider this aspect for balance please:

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/aberdeen-scouting-system-overhaul-1.49347?35386

 

Aberdeen scouting system overhaul

 

From the archive

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6 Jul 2005

 

THE Aberdeen chief scout, John Kelman, has left the club with manager Jimmy Calderwood preparing to take up the role.

 

Kelman, based in Motherwell and hired nine years ago by Roy Aitken, has been told his services are no longer required as the club's scouting system is overhauled.

 

Kelman, 69, had previously been with Celtic and Bolton Wanderers before joining Aberdeen.

[Chrisyboy81]

I'm not sure from this article if it was just a trial for 1 match or something they implemented.

 

http://www.aberdeen-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/jimmys_in_the_zone_305183/index.shtml

Yeah I can remember that, it's not done us any good I think the standard of our signings players has dropped since 2006!

[V for Vendetta]

Yeah I can remember that, it's not done us any good I think the standard of our signings players has dropped since 2006!

 

Yep. See my amended post above :-)

 

However I think the 2 things are really different subjects.

 

Afc may have used Prozone to analyse the performance of their own team - I doubt we have ever used it to analyse the performance of any signing targets.

 

We don't even have a scouting network as we can't afford the cost of their travel, entry to games and the price of a notepad so doubt we would ever be using anything sophisticated to analyse players before signing them.

[Chrisyboy81]

Yep. See my amended post above :-)

 

However I think the 2 things are really different subjects.

 

Afc may have used Prozone to analyse the performance of their own team - I doubt we have ever used it to analyse the performance of any signing targets.

 

We don't even have a scouting network as we can't afford the cost of their travel, entry to games and the price of a notepad so doubt we would ever be using anything sophisticated to analyse players before signing them.

I find it astonishing that the so-called 3rd biggest club in the country doesn't have a scouting network it's unbelievable. I think Football Manager is way behind it needs to start scrapping scouts and reserves it makes the game far too simple.

[Henry]

Milne.

 

Edit: and when was Craig Robertson reappointed?

 

Further edit:

ABERDEEN today revealed they have added a new weapon to their summer star search.

Pittodrie chief Willie Miller has confirmed that Craig Robertson has now joined the club’s scouting team.

The former Dons and Dunfermline midfielder will scour the country helping to identify new talent for Jimmy Calderwood.

Aberdeen have already secured their first new signing of the summer after Oldham’s Gary McDonald penned a pre-contract and former Dunfermline assistant boss Robertson will help to uncover more.

“I know Craig very well and trust him in terms of his assessment of players,” said Miller.

“I first approached him after he got everything sorted out with Dunfermline and he was keen to come on board.

“I’m very pleased with the work he is doing and he’s happy to be back working for Aberdeen after previously serving the club as a player.

“It’s good to have more experience on board and in terms of scouting he’s going to be an asset to the club.

“I also know Craig’s capabilities as a coach and he’s now working for us in a consultancy capacity helping to source new players for us.”

Calderwood, who will make major changes at Pittodrie this summer, echoed Miller’s views about Robertson.

The Dons boss, who has been preparing his troops for Saturday’s New Firm clash with Dundee United, is pleased to have landed McDonald to get his recruitment drive off to a flying start.

And Robertson will help to lighten the workload placed on assistant Jimmy Nicholl and coach Sandy Clark who share scouting commitments.

Calderwood added: “Craig has been looking at some players for us.

“It’s great to have another set of eyes available and another opinion about certain individuals.

“He’s been out and about looking at some of our targets and has filed some reports on them.

“With us being tied up with Aberdeen’s matches, it’s good to have someone else who can work for us.”

[V for Vendetta]

if it WAS that big a mistake, why didnt any of the next managers reintroduce it then?

 

Good question.

Perhaps because its easier to dismantle an organisation than to build one. Particularly when it costs money to do so and you've blown that on players salaries or whatever.

 

Do you have a point re my own?

 

Why do you feel the need to defend JC on every single point ever raised on here? How about some balance? How about just taking each issue as it comes and treat with some honesty instead of the desperate need to respond with some insinuation, deflection or whatever.

[Dandyesque]

 

Why do you feel the need to defend JC on every single point ever raised on here? How about some balance? How about just taking each issue as it comes and treat with some honesty instead of the desperate need to respond with some insinuation, deflection or whatever.

 

He's a closet Hun.

 

[robbo]

Good question.

Perhaps because its easier to dismantle an organisation than to build one. Particularly when it costs money to do so and you've blown that on players salaries or whatever.

 

 

id assume its because once the scouts were shown the door, their wages were reallocated to different areas. now, were seeing more and more players leaving with only a handful being replaced because we dont have the money to bring in more. so logical assumption is so long as we keep running at a loss, we wont be able to reestablish a scouting network.

 

and if we did bring someone in to be the solitary scout....youd get a handful of moaning cunts saying "where has this money come from, what a waste, why didnt we use it on a left back instead of 1 scout!?!?!??!" #mockoutrage

[V for Vendetta]

id assume its because once the scouts were shown the door, their wages were reallocated to different areas. now, were seeing more and more players leaving with only a handful being replaced because we dont have the money to bring in more. so logical assumption is so long as we keep running at a loss, we wont be able to reestablish a scouting network.

 

and if we did bring someone in to be the solitary scout....youd get a handful of moaning cunts saying "where has this money come from, what a waste, why didnt we use it on a left back instead of 1 scout!?!?!??!" #mockoutrage

 

 

so true.

 

or even the "When Jimmy was here we didn't need scouts and we were still in the top 6 every year" as if this some unquestionable proof that everything was just perfect during that spell.

[Ke1t]

I find it astonishing that the so-called 3rd biggest club in the country doesn't have a scouting network it's unbelievable.

 

 

No reason to drag Hearts into this.

[tightbreeks]

i think the current liverpool owners used this method for their red sox team, big poppy ortiz n that.

[fine-n-dandy]

if it WAS that big a mistake, why didnt any of the next managers reintroduce it then?

 

Cos they probably get a percentage of the saved money by going along with it still

Conspiracy?

[Dandyesque]

No reason to drag Hearts into this.

 

[V for Vendetta]

Actually to bang on about this scouting malarky, it makes a HUGE difference and its a bloody shame we had so little foresight to let this slip.

 

Recently we've seen Calderwood, Brown and McGhee rely completely on "contacts" who knew players or tipped them off whatever.

 

Seriously!!!??? for a sports team with the sort of turnover we have that is a fcking disgrace.

[Redstar]

Actually to bang on about this scouting malarky, it makes a HUGE difference and its a bloody shame we had so little foresight to let this slip.

 

Recently we've seen Calderwood, Brown and McGhee rely completely on "contacts" who knew players or tipped them off whatever.

 

Seriously!!!??? for a sports team with the sort of turnover we have that is a fcking disgrace.

 

Would think 3 full-time Scouts on say 50K a year each would be fantastic use of the 150K we just nicked off the Hun

[Ke1t]

Would think 3 full-time Scouts on say 50K a year each would be fantastic use of the 150K we just nicked off the Hun

 

I doubt you'd even have to pay half that for a scout.