The Odds On You Being You

[looksgoodinred]

So what

[looksgoodinred]

damn! typo in the header and i can't edit it. grrrr....

sorry.

[Bobby Connor]

damn! typo in the header and i can't edit it. grrrr....

sorry.

 

 

That's nothing in comparison to the odds required for us to be having a nice wee chat this evening. The fact anyone is alive to talk about the subject is a miracle. If you agree that god exists then it's amazing he hasn't zapped you yet. He is a problem child with plenty time on his hands. A wanker.

[looksgoodinred]

i'm not religious, so not too worried about being zapped, lol

(and my less-than-amazonian stature leaves me pretty safe from lightning strikes too.)

[phoenix]

' I was toying with this other idea, about an owl who falls in love with a cat and brings it mice every day. What are the odds of that? '

 

 

Fantasy or reality? Both actually. Because we need 'em both.

 

 

Yin and yang ?

The 2 poles, yin (expansion) and yang (contraction), are complementary and antagonistic. Yin and yin repulse one another, as do yang and yang, but yin and yang attract one another. One can get an actual picture of these relations by playing with two magnets. Macrobiotic is a cosmogony in which these forces structure and animate the world. The study of macrobiotics consists therefore in identifying these forces and their interaction. In human life, yin and yang can be identified on a multitude of levels.

 

 

http://macrobiotics.co.uk/yin.htm

[Dandyesque]

So what

[looksgoodinred]

you're correct there's only one egg needed to create a person, but the chance of that *specific* egg (that turns into you) being released rather than one of a hundred thousand others, meeting up with that particular spermatozoon? 1 in 400 quadrillion, if you agree with his math.

 

even assuming a number of eggs (but not all), meeting up with any one of a number of sperm (but not all), would still give the same result (you, and not a sibling of yours), i expect the numbers are still substantial.

 

i think 5 to 1 would be overly generous odds.

[looksgoodinred]

 

Yin and yang ?

 

http://macrobiotics.co.uk/yin.htm

 

hmm.. i haven't read much about yin and yang, although as i look at the seven principles, some of them are quite familiar to me. balance would be good.

 

another subject to explore more fully, through the internet and bookstore this weekend! thank you. :thumbs:

[Dandyesque]

you're correct there's only one egg needed to create a person, but the chance of that *specific* egg (that turns into you) being released rather than one of a hundred thousand others, meeting up with that particular spermatozoon? 1 in 400 quadrillion, if you agree with his math.

 

even assuming a number of eggs (but not all), meeting up with any one of a number of sperm (but not all), would still give the same result (you, and not a sibling of yours), i expect the numbers are still substantial.

 

i think 5 to 1 would be overly generous odds.

 

If you think I'm wrong, that means my odds are the opposite of generous.

 

All eggs are the same in any event - they contain the same genetic information - your DNA - as each other and that's all that counts

[looksgoodinred]

If you think I'm wrong, that means my odds are the opposite of generous.

 

All eggs are the same in any event - they contain the same genetic information - your DNA - as each other and that's all that counts

 

correction duly noted.

my point was i think the odds have got to still be really large, given that sperm and egg cells are genetically unique, created through meiosis, not mitosis.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiosis

[terenceandphilip]

its a great question, but there's a subtle complexity to it.

 

Why is the person that is you, you? I mean why are you not someone else?

 

 

Think about it, your parents had a baby. Why did that baby not just grow up to be one of the millions of other people. How on earth did that baby become you? Its all very strange.

 

I think the only possible answer is the 'me' is not any different to any other person, it just self consciousness. Part of being self conscious is being aware of this me, so my 'me-ness' is no different to your 'me-ness' and really we're all the same.

 

of course, there is the fact that I am physically me from day to day and there is contunity of memory etc, but the idea that i was somehow out there waiting to happen makes no sense. There is consciousness, its all you can really say.

[looksgoodinred]

its a great question, but there's a subtle complexity to it.

 

Why is the person that is you, you? I mean why are you not someone else?

 

 

Think about it, your parents had a baby. Why did that baby not just grow up to be one of the millions of other people. How on earth did that baby become you? Its all very strange.

 

I think the only possible answer is the 'me' is not any different to any other person, it just self consciousness. Part of being self conscious is being aware of this me, so my 'me-ness' is no different to your 'me-ness' and really we're all the same.

 

of course, there is the fact that I am physically me from day to day and there is contunity of memory etc, but the idea that i was somehow out there waiting to happen makes no sense. There is consciousness, its all you can really say.

 

a multitude of variables in the making of each person as they are. :thumbs:

[Bobby Connor]

its a great question, but there's a subtle complexity to it.

 

Why is the person that is you, you? I mean why are you not someone else?

 

 

Think about it, your parents had a baby. Why did that baby not just grow up to be one of the millions of other people. How on earth did that baby become you? Its all very strange.

 

I think the only possible answer is the 'me' is not any different to any other person, it just self consciousness. Part of being self conscious is being aware of this me, so my 'me-ness' is no different to your 'me-ness' and really we're all the same.

 

of course, there is the fact that I am physically me from day to day and there is contunity of memory etc, but the idea that i was somehow out there waiting to happen makes no sense. There is consciousness, its all you can really say.

 

Nice post T&P. It's a complex subject and I have no real answers, just more questions.

 

As humans we fairly bang on about our 'self awareness'. How self aware are we in reality? I'm not sure what makes me 'me'. My old man reckons humans form a sort of collective brain and that individuality is a just an illusion. He might well be on the right track.

[dervish]

On the being you thing, I'd guess I'm just a reflection of the environment I'm in. Sort of the Adam Smith invisible hand the other way round. Without getting into the semantics of how it was originally meant.

 

It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages

 

Fairly isolated communities form pretty similar social groupings, even different species do and I'd say the group totally affects the way I am. So I'd agree we are individual in some superficial ways, but not really.

[BrianFaePerth]

But isn't the probability of every single one of us existing even more miniscule than oor parents getting their freak on at a given time?

 

Their parents and their parents and their parents etc all back through time have to be included. So if the odds on each of us being here are x quadrillion to one, then that has to be multiplied exponentially.

 

Just think, if any one of your ancestors had had a headache, or was gay or was as useless wi the burds as Minijc, then ye wouldnae exist. That also assumes those people meet, which is often pure chance in itself.

[phoenix]

hmm.. i haven't read much about yin and yang, although as i look at the seven principles, some of them are quite familiar to me. balance would be good.

 

another subject to explore more fully, through the internet and bookstore this weekend! thank you. :thumbs:

 

 

An understanding of yin and yang opens a door , looksgoodinred. It reveals the simple in the complicated. Once a few rudiments are under your belt , the knowledge can help with a fitness regime - the way to health and happiness( which is so much better than wealth ).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[looksgoodinred]

But isn't the probability of every single one of us existing even more miniscule than oor parents getting their freak on at a given time?

 

Their parents and their parents and their parents etc all back through time have to be included. So if the odds on each of us being here are x quadrillion to one, then that has to be multiplied exponentially.

 

Just think, if any one of your ancestors had had a headache, or was gay or was as useless wi the burds as Minijc, then ye wouldnae exist. That also assumes those people meet, which is often pure chance in itself.

 

that's exactly how Binazir's chart brings the odds up to one in 400 quadrillion! the odds of each of your ancestors going back to the beginning of time, living to reproductive age, and then meeting up and having a child. but his one in 400 quadrillion only brings you to the point of birth.

[terenceandphilip]

You still need to consider why the baby your parents had is you. There is no reason for that, as opposed to just another person.

[amancalledbuck]

There's a waiting room for souls. Once a baby pops out, the next soul in line gets allocated to it.

[terenceandphilip]

There's a waiting room for souls. Once a baby pops out, the next soul in line gets allocated to it.

 

 

That could be it. Self consciousness is one of the most elusive and intriguing things there is.

[dervish]

You still need to consider why the baby your parents had is you. There is no reason for that, as opposed to just another person.

 

Aye, but who cares, IMHO it's a bit like trying to ask why every grain of sand landed on that beach in the form it did. Obviously I'm reasonably chuffed with the set of bones I've got but no one else cares. If I'd been different I'd be different my parents wouldn't pine for the sperm that got away (some even freely fill kleenex with it).

[spamspamspam]

But isn't the probability of every single one of us existing even more miniscule than oor parents getting their freak on at a given time?

 

Their parents and their parents and their parents etc all back through time have to be included. So if the odds on each of us being here are x quadrillion to one, then that has to be multiplied exponentially.

 

Just think, if any one of your ancestors had had a headache, or was gay or was as useless wi the burds as Minijc, then ye wouldnae exist. That also assumes those people meet, which is often pure chance in itself.

 

Only if you buy into the whole shite about humans being special.

 

We're not special, we're nothing out of the ordinary. Life in general is a prerequisite of the universe and with that natural selection then creates a vast array of life to pray on each other. Just because we've evolved to a point where we understand our own mortality that doesnt then mean we are any more or less special than a flower, an ant or an elephant. In the evolution of life a human being is no more special than a flower seed. We are just vessels of what has went before, just because we can add some improbable meaning to it all that doesnt actually make the odds of us being here any less or greater than the odds of a sunflower seed being on the ground under a sunflower.

[actonsheep]

that's exactly how Binazir's chart brings the odds up to one in 400 quadrillion! the odds of each of your ancestors going back to the beginning of time, living to reproductive age, and then meeting up and having a child. but his one in 400 quadrillion only brings you to the point of birth.

 

This is all a load of pish. You can't place odds on something in hindsight. The odds of you existing are precisely 1/1 - 100%. It has happened. You exist, you typed that message.

 

Doing probability backwards is kinda fun, but totally meaningless.

[phoenix]

Only if you buy into the whole shite about humans being special.

 

We're not special, we're nothing out of the ordinary. Life in general is a prerequisite of the universe and with that natural selection then creates a vast array of life to pray on each other. Just because we've evolved to a point where we understand our own mortality that doesnt then mean we are any more or less special than a flower, an ant or an elephant. In the evolution of life a human being is no more special than a flower seed. We are just vessels of what has went before, just because we can add some improbable meaning to it all that doesnt actually make the odds of us being here any less or greater than the odds of a sunflower seed being on the ground under a sunflower.

 

 

 

This !

 

 

There have been 60 billion human beings , give or take , since we evolved into the human race , 6 billion of whom are alive today - which is a hoor of a lot given the length of time since we got onto our hind legs.

 

But it's possibly an insignificant amount compared to the human beings that could have been but never made it.....so consider yersel' fortunate , make the most of it and probably cut doon on all the drinkin' and wankin' that I see before me. There is so much more to being here than seeing life thro' the bottom of a glass or lookin' at the top of your bellend.

 

It's fractal , man. we have simply regenerated our cells and genes as part of the process that has created everything else. Nevermind yer Mills and Boon about souls waiting for entry and all that. It's wonderful like , miraculous even.....so much so that we can do withoot the romantic add-ons.

[terenceandphilip]

This should be required reading for every human being on the planet.

 

 

 

 

 

Siddhartha by Hermann Hesse

[phoenix]

This should be required reading for every human being on the planet.

 

 

 

 

 

Siddhartha by Hermann Hesse

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

American Modern Prose / Beatnik / Buddhist Fiction

Wake Up is Kerouac's retelling of the story of Prince Siddhartha Gautama, who as a young man abandoned his wealthy family and comfortable home for a lifelong search for Enlightenment. As a compendium of the teachings of the Buddha, Wake Up is a profound meditation on the nature of life, desire, wisdom, and suffering. Distilled from a wide variety of canonical scriptures, Wake Up serves as both a concise primer on the concepts of Buddhism and as an insightful and deeply personal document of Kerouac's evolving beliefs. It is the work of a devoted spiritual follower of the Buddha who also happened to be one of the twentieth century's most influential novelists. Wake Up: A Life of the Buddha will be essential reading for the legions of Jack Kerouac fans and for anyone who is curious about the spiritual principles of one of the world's great religions.

 

 

 

Free download here or get the 3D version from someone for Christmas.

 

 

 

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