Afc Lending Facility

[Guest]

According to the annual report, AFC stated that lending facilities would end come March 2012.

 

According to AFC, bids for the stadium were due to be in by end of 2011.

 

According to AFC, we gave proposed bidders more time to develop their tenders.

 

According to AFC, we don't actually have outright ownership of Loirston Loch land we plan to build on.

 

Who is holding the Board to account over this pitiful situation? Questions should be asked and answers provided to Shareholders. What is the current state of our finances, in particular, with regard to the lending facilties (ie debt, loans etc)?

 

Succulent lamb hey.....?

[Ke1t]

According to the annual report, AFC stated that lending facilities would end come March 2012.

 

According to AFC, bids for the stadium were due to be in by end of 2011.

 

According to AFC, we gave proposed bidders more time to develop their tenders.

 

According to AFC, we don't actually have outright ownership of Loirston Loch land we plan to build on.

 

Who is holding the Board to account over this pitiful situation? Questions should be asked and answers provided to Shareholders. What is the current state of our finances, in particular, with regard to the lending facilties (ie debt, loans etc)?

 

Succulent lamb hey.....?

 

I imagine they'll renegotiate the terms of the loan, given the bank will surely love the masses of free interest they make off our mountainous debt.

[fatshaft]

Succulent lamb hey.....?

I don't think you have grasped what this means.

[Guest]

I don't think you have grasped what this means.

 

Pardon?

[spamspamspam]

Pardon?

 

he said

 

I don't think you have grasped what this means.

 

and reading your post I concur.

[Guest]

I imagine they'll renegotiate the terms of the loan, given the bank will surely love the masses of free interest they make off our mountainous debt.

 

But the club were quite specific in the annual accounts that the facility would end come March, hence they had reached drinking up time and were about to thrown out the front door by the bouncers.

 

The banks are not a cash cow. They have provided AFC with lending facilities on these loans for years now. And the interest was deferred and the rolled up amount due to be paid back. Shareholders of banks, even the likes of HBOS, do not have a infinite level of patience, more so with businesses who are showing no signs of turning a profit.

 

Quite obvious to me, was the way this was written and the rush to push through a sale: the two being interlinked. However, with no obvious signs of a sale (in all probability due to Milne not have secured the land for new stadium), then what sort of situation are we in? We could be in a further overdraught, with sh*t loads of interest building up, on top of the interest that we were already accruing.

 

Again, who is there to ask these questions?

[RUL]

The club have said bank extended lending facilities on basis any new debt was covered by directors loans so overall debt is increasing but not bank debt...

[Guest]

he said

 

 

 

and reading your post I concur.

 

The post was 99% about our finances. The last question raised the question of cosy journos who are afraid to put their head above the parapet and ask the questions about our crappy situation.

 

Capisce?

[Guest]

The club have said bank extended lending facilities on basis any new debt was covered by directors loans so overall debt is increasing but not bank debt...

 

Yeah, that was around June last year when the loan was due to expire. It was then given a deadline of March 2012. So...... ????

[woohoo]

The post was 99% about our finances. The last question raised the question of cosy journos who are afraid to put their head above the parapet and ask the questions about our crappy situation.

 

Capisce?

 

Local journalists are afraid to ask the hard questions and Weegie journalists don't give a fuck.

 

Less succulent lamb more too scared to give up the free Pittodrie pies.

[Ke1t]

But the club were quite specific in the annual accounts that the facility would end come March, hence they had reached drinking up time and were about to thrown out the front door by the bouncers.

 

The banks are not a cash cow. They have provided AFC with lending facilities on these loans for years now. And the interest was deferred and the rolled up amount due to be paid back. Shareholders of banks, even the likes of HBOS, do not have a infinite level of patience, more so with businesses who are showing no signs of turning a profit.

 

Quite obvious to me, was the way this was written and the rush to push through a sale: the two being interlinked. However, with no obvious signs of a sale (in all probability due to Milne not have secured the land for new stadium), then what sort of situation are we in? We could be in a further overdraught, with sh*t loads of interest building up, on top of the interest that we were already accruing.

 

Again, who is there to ask these questions?

 

There's no doubt we're in a shitload of real trouble thanks to the mismanagement (accidental or deliberate) of AFC at the hands of Stewart Milne.

 

However I imagine the bank will allow a further renegotiation of the loan until such time as we can no longer afford to pay the interest, at which time they'll call in their debt and we'll be just like the Huns, only fucked because we're not an important club like Glasgow Rangers.

 

When that time might be is, as you say, coming close...

 

...but for the time being, this might be the last renegotiation we manage.

 

But, hey, they just gave the fans 500 whole pounds to go buy paint with, so yas, eh?

[Guest]

There's no doubt we're in a shitload of real trouble thanks to the mismanagement (accidental or deliberate) of AFC at the hands of Stewart Milne.

 

However I imagine the bank will allow a further renegotiation of the loan until such time as we can no longer afford to pay the interest, at which time they'll call in their debt and we'll be just like the Huns, only fucked because we're not an important club like Glasgow Rangers.

 

When that time might be is, as you say, coming close...

 

...but for the time being, this might be the last renegotiation we manage.

 

But, hey, they just gave the fans 500 whole pounds to go buy paint with, so yas, eh?

 

I could be wrong, but I'm sure the guarantee is only for the entire loan and interest. I can't rightly recall the breakdown of how it was all split, but I'm sure Tall Tray took on some of the debt, based on a personal guarantee by Milne and Gilbert. Put it this way, I could almost be 100% sure that Milne and Gilbert don't guarantee the

[Guest]

I don't think you have grasped what this means.

 

 

and reading your post I concur.

 

Still waiting for your pearls of wisdom on what I've picked up on wrong.

 

I bow to your superior knowledge.

[Foster14]

In answer to your question, who is holding the board to account, currently it would be the bank...

[Redstar]

In answer to your question, who is holding the board to account, currently it would be the bank...

Milne will be one of the bank's favourite customers...the more debt the idiot amasses the more the bank bleeds the club dry on probably stupidly negotiated interest deals...the bank love Milne make no mistake

[Guest]

In answer to your question, who is holding the board to account, currently it would be the bank...

 

Really? Perhaps it's a case of the bank is giving us just enough rope to hang ourselves with?

 

Let's be honest, none of us have any idea, which is kinda why I think someone (you know, like the Richard Gordon's of this world) should be asking questions, putting the fookers on the spot.

[Ke1t]

Really? Perhaps it's a case of the bank is giving us just enough rope to hang ourselves with?

 

Well, they are... that's a given. The bank isn't some benevolent institution that exists to serve AFC... it's a business. One of the reasons they lend money is so they can earn a pissload of interest from companies and private citizens. They don't give a flying fuck if the person or business can't eat as a result of having to spend every spare penny servicing the loan.

 

They STILL own the money they loaned, and as long as there's collateral to offset the value of the loan everything's fine. They get their interest payments and at the same time they can and WILL sell all your secured shit out from under you if you can't make your payments.

 

That's how banks work.

 

That's whats happening with Aberdeen. We're making our payments so the bank is happy. They'll be happy to renegotiate loans as long as they reckon we can repay them, and if that means the club and playing side is starved of funds then what does the bank care?

[Foster14]

Banks aren't going to lend stupidly to a club like Aberdeen though. They will have major risk analysis work done, they will have cast iron guarantees from directors to cover any additional risk beyond that.

 

While we may not be getting sufficient information and I would prefer more transparency on some matters, but if there were issues with the bank financing, it would be common knowledge by now and that makes me feel a little comfortable at least...

[Guest]

There were more than a few eloquent fans ready to ask these sort of questions at the recent fans forum in Edinburgh, but the club didn't offer anyone who dealt with the financial side of things to attend and we were left with Willie Miller shrugging his shoulders saying "it's not my job"

 

Even if Duncan Fraser had fronted, I wouldn't trust a word that comes out of his mouth nowadays. Sad but true.

[sooth_stander]

Tiny, unless I'm mistaken, you're a shareholder, why don't you ask the board?

[Stoney]

We must now be at the stage when the debt is worth more than the stadium is worth?

[RUL]

True but the only debt linked to the stadium is bank debt, which is down and bank are refusing to increase. Director debt is increasing but scots cup win should stem the tide for a while.

[fatshaft]

Still waiting for your pearls of wisdom on what I've picked up on wrong.

 

I bow to your superior knowledge.

Well Spam3 generally does this much better than I, but here goes.

 

"Succelent Lamb journalism" refers to the cosy agreement (post-nice cosy dinner at Legless' mansion in Jersey) where it was tacitly agreed that there would be no digging around about the goings on at RFC, and that the propoganda spouted by the 12 strong media relations team from within Ibrox would more or less be spewed out verbatim in the next day's papers. Hence why it is almost unheard of for anything negative to be said about these cheats (even now), and yet (for example) every time we come around to play them, Simmie somehow gets dragged up again and again.

 

Contrast that with the truly incompetetnt Charlie Allen, who while having not a shred of investigative ability within his ample body, HAS reported upon everything you've moaned about in your OP, indeed it's entirely becasue of said reporting that you are able to post your greetin whinge.

 

Now I grant you there's no hard follow up on these matters, but to suggest that it's not reported, nor indeed there's nothing but a positive slant on AFC from the walls of AJ, is nonsense. Only very recently for instance, the players were banned from speaking to them, or two weeks ago fatty pieman was once again slagging Wiggy for sacking JC.

 

So criticism exists, someof it, like the JC piece, is of course utter pish, but that's down to the person doing the pishing, rather than there being an unwritten agreement not to pee on Pittodrie Street.

[Stoney]

True but the only debt linked to the stadium is bank debt, which is down and bank are refusing to increase. Director debt is increasing but scots cup win should stem the tide for a while.

 

Think winning the scottish cup would bring supporters back and probably would stem the tide.

 

I still think we have made quite a big loss this year and the club are now starting to worry.

 

But in my opinion the worrying should have started 10 years ago not when we have got ourselves in this pickle.

[MightyDons]

Well, they are... that's a given. The bank isn't some benevolent institution that exists to serve AFC... it's a business. One of the reasons they lend money is so they can earn a pissload of interest from companies and private citizens. They don't give a flying fuck if the person or business can't eat as a result of having to spend every spare penny servicing the loan.

 

They STILL own the money they loaned, and as long as there's collateral to offset the value of the loan everything's fine. They get their interest payments and at the same time they can and WILL sell all your secured shit out from under you if you can't make your payments.

 

That's how banks work.

 

That's whats happening with Aberdeen. We're making our payments so the bank is happy. They'll be happy to renegotiate loans as long as they reckon we can repay them, and if that means the club and playing side is starved of funds then what does the bank care?

 

Its my understanding that our bank debt is not linked to Aberdeen Football Club plc. Its linked to a company which owns the stadium, which is seperate from the football club. I remember this being made public several years ago. The bank are happy because they know they have the stadium if we default.

[Henry]

 

We could be in a further overdraught

 

That just sent a chill down my spine.

[Stoney]

[spamspamspam]

The post was 99% about our finances. The last question raised the question of cosy journos who are afraid to put their head above the parapet and ask the questions about our crappy situation.

 

Capisce?

 

AFC despise the EE and Charlie Allan

 

AFC do all they can to make sure the EE dont get the scoop on their signing, loan deals etc. They release the news at 4.30pm to make sure fat chaz is the last to get it in print.

 

There is no cosy relationship between AFC and fat chaz or the EE

 

The lack of investigative reporting from the local press has a lot more to do with their capabilities or lack of than any reciprocal agreement/arrangement where the journalists get taken to Glen Eagles, wined and dined and filled with a load of pap for their back pages.

 

Why do you think the EE sometimes has to run the same story 3 or 4 times in a month? I'll fill you in... its because they dont get any scraps from AFC. All their stories come from RedTV interviews and quick 5 minute chats with the players.

 

There is no succulent lamb journalism when it comes to AFC, just incompetent journalism and thats what happens when you stick an uneducated postie in charge of a sports desk

 

Comprende?

[spamspamspam]

Sorry FS, should've finished reading the thread before replying.

[Guest]

AFC despise the EE and Charlie Allan

 

AFC do all they can to make sure the EE dont get the scoop on their signing, loan deals etc. They release the news at 4.30pm to make sure fat chaz is the last to get it in print.

 

There is no cosy relationship between AFC and fat chaz or the EE

 

The lack of investigative reporting from the local press has a lot more to do with their capabilities or lack of than any reciprocal agreement/arrangement where the journalists get taken to Glen Eagles, wined and dined and filled with a load of pap for their back pages.

 

Why do you think the EE sometimes has to run the same story 3 or 4 times in a month? I'll fill you in... its because they dont get any scraps from AFC. All their stories come from RedTV interviews and quick 5 minute chats with the players.

 

There is no succulent lamb journalism when it comes to AFC, just incompetent journalism and thats what happens when you stick an uneducated postie in charge of a sports desk

 

Comprende?

 

You guys are being naive in the extreme if you don't think that between AJL, Northsound, 106 etc, that they aren't smoothed over and massaged by the Dave McDermids of this world. Heck, you could suggest 'Succulent Lamb' posturing was entrenched in the club itself, with the likes of Chris Gavin, Willie Miller and Duncan Fraser (all previous adversories of Milne) tight lipped and towing the party line. Yes, of course they are employees of AFC now (well apart from Chris who doesn't steal take a wage like some others) and are not going to shoot themselves in the foot, but you see where I'm coming from.

 

Milne, like Murray, has had his way with journalists and employees alike, and if you can't see that for what it's worth, then that's your undoing.

 

AFC only stopped feeding stories to CA very recently. Before that, he was in the back hipper of Milne and McDermid something cronic. As were all of AJL's paid hands. No one from the west coast is bothered about us, as they're too busy creaming their pants over the OF.

 

If we had a media of note, they'd be all over Milne like a rash. There's more dirt to dish on him and his tenure of AFC than a Gadaffi led regime!!