If The Voting Structure Is Changed Would You Soften To A Newco In Return?

[V for Vendetta]

Now I'm going to pay devils advocate here a little bit and add 1 more thing to consider then voting:

 

The question of allowing a newco into is technically seperate from the question of cheating over the years by financial doping and illegal registration of players. These 2 issues could and should be fully investigated seperately and should result in their own sanctions entirely seperate to any punishments handed out for transfering the SPL membership of the company to a newco.

 

Problem is if the oldco does not exist are any of these investigations and punishments valid?

 

I'd argue that if the newco wants to maintain its SPL share and history then it also has to remain open to punishment for the indiscretions of the oldco but I'm not sure that will fly at all....

[TheChimp]

Any newco is clearly just a slightly different shade of shite and therefore should be hammered in the same way the current filth would.

 

A suitable punishment would be for them to be deducted the same amount of points that they won during their period of cheating. Say for arguments sake they started cheating when the SPL was formed. That means they are deducted 1168 points. This total has to be carried over each season until they have accumulated enough points. By my reckoning, even if they won every game, it would take 10 years before the start earning points again.

 

Seems fair to me.

[Dandyesque]

I think a Newco would be the only way forward for them, for that very reason.

 

Even if they manage to cobble together an acceptable CVA, they are doomed.

 

A Newco, parachuted into the 1st Div (purchasing PT or the Beath) would save them years and millions.

 

 

------

 

 

I ran a poll a month or so ago for that very reason, as I knew this dilemma would rear it's head everntually

[Dynamo]

No. They shouldn't be allowed straight into the SPL under any circumstances.

 

If they are liquidated they should be sent to Division 3 and work their way back up if they wish to start again. It's just the way it should be for everyone. I would expect this to happen to AFC if we were ever in such a position.

 

The 11-1 voting would get changed anyway if a Dundee replaced der Hun. Celtic wouldn't have their brothers to support them.

[fatshaft]

Problem is if the oldco does not exist are any of these investigations and punishments valid?

 

I'd argue that if the newco wants to maintain its SPL share and history then it also has to remain open to punishment for the indiscretions of the oldco but I'm not sure that will fly at all....

Don't see why not, the only reason they could be voted into the SPL is becasue they are Cheats Oldco with a Newco name, so any association and continued punishment would be perfectly valid. If they try to claim there is no connection to Cheats Oldco, then fine, treat them as any other application to Scottish fitba would be treated, as one of a number of clubs applying for the space created by the end of Cheats Oldco.

 

In any case, I vote no, simpy changing the voting would not be enough.

[strachanmcgheegoal]

Yup agree with "the thickest cunt on here."

 

If they pull off a CVA and I cannot for the life of me imagine how they could then they will still be punished for breaking the rules assuming proven (and I would be equally sceptical if they were somehow unproven).

 

If they are forced into Newco by HMRC then as the shaftmeister states if they want to play the we're new (therefore no penalties can be applied) but we're speshul (so let us in) then they have to forfeit something in return namely support for significant amendments to SPL articles as DICTATED by nonOF10. The voting structure itself is a dandy herring.

[V for Vendetta]

Don't see why not, the only reason they could be voted into the SPL is becasue they are Cheats Oldco with a Newco name, so any association and continued punishment would be perfectly valid. If they try to claim there is no connection to Cheats Oldco, then fine, treat them as any other application to Scottish fitba would be treated, as one of a number of clubs applying for the space created by the end of Cheats Oldco.

 

In any case, I vote no, simpy changing the voting would not be enough.

 

 

Yup agree with "the thickest cunt on here."

 

If they pull off a CVA and I cannot for the life of me imagine how they could then they will still be punished for breaking the rules assuming proven (and I would be equally sceptical if they were somehow unproven).

 

If they are forced into Newco by HMRC then as the shaftmeister states if they want to play the we're new (therefore no penalties can be applied) but we're speshul (so let us in) then they have to forfeit something in return namely support for significant amendments to SPL articles as DICTATED by nonOF10. The voting structure itself is a dandy herring.

 

Ok. But playing devils advocate here. Lets say that changing the voting structure was basically going to give the other clubs carte blanche (sp?) to amend the rules, regulations, distribution of incomes, size of league etc etc without OF approval?

 

Is it enough? Is it better to think of the long term gain rather than the short term pleasure of watching the scum squirm? They'd be back in the SPL within 3 seasons anyway.

[fatshaft]

Ok. But playing devils advocate here. Lets say that changing the voting structure was basically going to give the other clubs carte blanche (sp?) to amend the rules, regulations, distribution of incomes, size of league etc etc without OF approval?

 

Is it enough? Is it better to think of the long term gain rather than the short term pleasure of watching the scum squirm? They'd be back in the SPL within 3 seasons anyway.

No, it is simply not enough, and it's not about watching them squirm, however enjoyable that would be. It's about sporting integrity, they have cheated, they can't be allowed to get away with 'ah well, you caught us, let's just move on eh?'. No, not good enough.

[strachanmcgheegoal]

With careful 'management' the SPL10 will have said carte blanche in any case thus also giving them unprecedented power against the other cheek. Make no mistake hunbo will give you anything you want right now to get back into the SPL unfettered. Christ they're even considering carrying on some of their debt!

 

For once we can have our cake, and eat it.

[V for Vendetta]

No, it is simply not enough, and it's not about watching them squirm, however enjoyable that would be. It's about sporting integrity, they have cheated, they can't be allowed to get away with 'ah well, you caught us, let's just move on eh?'. No, not good enough.

 

You are a man of principle FS. Which of course I already new.

 

I tend to be much the same myself but I woke up in a particularly pragmatic mood today.

 

With careful 'management' the SPL10 will have said carte blanche in any case thus also giving them unprecedented power against the other cheek. Make no mistake hunbo will give you anything you want right now to get back into the SPL unfettered. Christ they're even considering carrying on some of their debt!

 

For once we can have our cake, and eat it.

 

I hope this is the case, you make a very sound argument for sticking to our guns and not blinking.

[Bluto10]

i'm not really that fussed what happens to them.

i will be surprised if there are any real penalties dished out.

i just want to see power and money more evenly and fairly distibuted.

[Dandyesque]

No, it is simply not enough, and it's not about watching them squirm, however enjoyable that would be. It's about sporting integrity, they have cheated, they can't be allowed to get away with 'ah well, you caught us, let's just move on eh?'. No, not good enough.

 

This.

 

And, in any event, if they are pumped down the divisions, the other 10 (+Ross County, and Falkirk, I assume) will have the freedom to change the rules anyway.

 

So a no from me.

[V for Vendetta]

i'm not really that fussed what happens to them.

i will be surprised if there are any real penalties dished out.

i just want to see power and money more evenly and fairly distibuted.

 

See I occasionally think this way as well but then I think about just how crazy it would be to let them straight back in.

 

For me the removal of power from the OF is the most critical thing that needs to happen but I don't want the newco back in - i think its embarassing for Scottish Football and shows honesty and integrity really have no value in this country whatsoever.

 

I'm torn. Ah well, just as well i am finding patience in all this now.

 

I'm thinking newco or not the financial realities are clearly going to catch up with them soon. Even if they have a successful takeover they are going to have to seriously strip that team back to the bones for the next 3 or 4 years.

 

I also suspect that ultimately there will be legal challenges if the authorities do not act with respect to the removal of trophies and punishment for all the ineligable players fielded at home and abroad - its just that this may take a very long time to happen. Perhaps even into next year.

[Bluto10]

See I occasionally think this way as well but then I think about just how crazy it would be to let them straight back in.

 

For me the removal of power from the OF is the most critical thing that needs to happen but I don't want the newco back in - i think its embarassing for Scottish Football and shows honesty and integrity really have no value in this country whatsoever.

 

I'm torn. Ah well, just as well i am finding patience in all this now.

 

I'm thinking newco or not the financial realities are clearly going to catch up with them soon. Even if they have a successful takeover they are going to have to seriously strip that team back to the bones for the next 3 or 4 years.

 

I also suspect that ultimately there will be legal challenges if the authorities do not act with respect to the removal of trophies and punishment for all the ineligable players fielded at home and abroad - its just that this may take a very long time to happen. Perhaps even into next year.

 

its a big issue alright, and very difficult to sum up succinctly. or without writing paragraphs and paragrahs.

 

i have to say i'll be amazed if newco are not straight back in at the top table.

seeing rangers in the 2nd teir or below of scottish football is too much for my imagination to deal with, sadly.

 

its only sport, we need to remember that. and i'd like to get back to playing football. not fighting a losing battle against the o.f. year after year.

[tup]

If this happens Scottish football is finished.

[Ke1t]

If they liquidate there is no way whatsoever a phoenix club, under any circumstances, should be allowed to just walk into the top league.

 

NO other current club, and no speculative future startup club, would ever be allowed to join a league in its top tier.

 

There's NO compelling reason this should be any different for Rangers.

 

"Because it's Rangers" is no compelling reason.

 

If they're allowed to waltz in under a new guise then the fix is in, Scottish football admits its inherent corruption, the game as a SPORT is dead.

 

NOTHING justifies a Newco starting life in the top league.