A New Scottish Football Set Up...

[dj_bollocks]

Bear with me on this one... I was having a discussion with a mate about the state of Scottish football and came up with this "needs work" version of events.

 

What if Scottish Football was revamped in some sort of regional franchise ?

 

For example, 2 Glasgow teams, 2 Edinburgh teams, 1 Aberdeen team, 2 Dundee teams if you must, Inverness... And then you start tearing up the rulebook, a franchise team for Fife, Stirling, The Highlands, The Borders, Lanarkshire etc...

 

Let's face it we have 42 teams for a country of under 6 million.... And financially they're all mostly fucked... How many shite teams are there around the country with sub 4 figure gates ? Scottish football is desperate for a revamp, as spectators we're desperate for a revamp... Do they all have to go bankrupt for a move to happen ?

 

Just throwing it out there (not that anything will happen) but is it time to change the old way of thinking and come up with something new ?

 

Discuss.

[Ke1t]

Bear with me on this one... I was having a discussion with a mate about the state of Scottish football and came up with this "needs work" version of events.

 

What if Scottish Football was revamped in some sort of regional franchise ?

 

For example, 2 Glasgow teams, 2 Edinburgh teams, 1 Aberdeen team, 2 Dundee teams if you must, Inverness... And then you start tearing up the rulebook, a franchise team for Fife, Stirling, The Highlands, The Borders, Lanarkshire etc...

 

Let's face it we have 42 teams for a country of under 6 million.... And financially they're all mostly fucked... How many shite teams are there around the country with sub 4 figure gates ? Scottish football is desperate for a revamp, as spectators we're desperate for a revamp... Do they all have to go bankrupt for a move to happen ?

 

Just throwing it out there (not that anything will happen) but is it time to change the old way of thinking and come up with something new ?

 

Discuss.

 

This is something I mentioned some time back... an East and West Coast League.

 

Obviously the OF would dominate and cheat in the West Coast league, but that league would gain the majority of the sponsorship, plus the other west coast teams would 'benefit' from the OF crowds.

 

The East Coast League would have none of the bigotry of the OF, and despite (initially) less sponsorship, the East Coast League would benefit massively from a level playing field, boosting attendances, therefore gate money, therefore quality of player.

 

The winner of the East and West Coast Leagues both qualify for CL football, meaning ONLY ONE OF club can qualify per year, and one of the East Coast teams also qualify... a final between the ECL and WCL winners to decide who is Scottish Champions, therefore who gains the premier spot for CL qualification.

 

League Cup is scrapped or turned into an U21 competition, with serious money for the winner. The Scottish Cup is played for by all teams, unseeded, ECL and WCL in one pot.

 

For example....

 

WCL

Rangers

Celtic

Motherwell

St Mirren

Kilmarnock

Partick Thistle

Hamilton

Morton

Ayr United

Dumbarton

-------------------

Airdrie United

 

 

ECL

Aberdeen

Inverness

Dundee

Dundee United

Hearts

Hibs

Dunfermline

Falkirk

Livingston

Ross County

-----------------

Raith Rovers

 

 

Travel time (particularly for West Coast League) is massively cut for many teams, meaning more chance of fans travelling to away games. Fans won't be travelling across the country only to find games snowed/rained off.

 

And... most importantly... we get to see if a league in Scotland can flourish without the Old Firm.

 

I look at the ECL and can say pretty confidently that that league, even without ANY of the West Coast teams involved, would do brilliantly.

[fatshaft]

Both of the above come under the category in my mind of "exactly"

 

Kelt's is a whole new kettle of fish, and not only workable, but likely to be highly successful.

 

I'm drawn to dj's idea though, as I've often voiced much the same idea myself, there'd be an amalgamation of Montrose/Forfar/Brechin/Arbroath for eg. to make 'Angus Utd' etc.

 

Basically it's somewhat like what happened in the NFL in 1966, when they tore up the rule book and started again. Of course that would require true vision, drive, determination, and an attitude of looking out for the good of the game in Scotland as a whole, and not what your own team will get out of it.

 

So for that reason alone, there's no chance that anything even approaching significant cange will come from the balloons in charge of our game, but they should be thinking of how to create a whole new league structure, becasue we cannot go on as we are, and we cannot compete by having the same stale and broken competitions as we have now.

 

Change it, but use Rangers demise as a catalyst for dramatic change. Nothing can be worse than we have now, except the admission of Cheats Newco into the current set-up.

[dj_bollocks]

If you're the likes of East Stirling, Brechin, Albion, Clyde, Montrose, Berwick, Stranraer - what have you really got going for you apart from maybe some heritage...

 

Wouldn't you want to be playing in some meaningful fixtures, where your teams have something to aspire to ? Or would you prefer playing to 500 people, with no roof and fuck all to play for ? If I was one of these teams I'd be chomping at the bit to be eating at a better stocked table...

 

16 teams/regions and you're talking with maybe a 2nd tier of semi professional teams looking to start a franchise and you have in my mind the right amount of teams to play in Scotland.

 

East Coast/West Coast is also an interesting prospect - I still think we'd be tarnished with the diddy league status and the Weegia would almost certainly ignore everything East of Harthill services...

[Jocky Balboa]

I've thought for years that the 42 teams (England has exactly 10X our population, but barely twice as many pro clubs. Go figure!) is far too many. For one thing, 4 clubs in Angus is ridiculous, but just maybe, they could pool together to make one decent sized club capable of playing in the top tier. Overall, I'd like to see something like 3 leagues of 10, or a 12-10-10 set-up, but with perhaps an annual relegation from the bottom tier, to allow a Highland team to gain promotion (or how about a two-legged play-off between the Highland League champs and Southern League winners, for a place in the Football League?)

[The Boofon]

I've thought for years that the 42 teams (England has exactly 10X our population, but barely twice as many pro clubs. Go figure!) is far too many. For one thing, 4 clubs in Angus is ridiculous, but just maybe, they could pool together to make one decent sized club capable of playing in the top tier. Overall, I'd like to see something like 3 leagues of 10, or a 12-10-10 set-up, but with perhaps an annual relegation from the bottom tier, to allow a Highland team to gain promotion (or how about a two-legged play-off between the Highland League champs and Southern League winners, for a place in the Football League?)

 

 

There is a place for every team and it's a bit hunnish or timmish to say wee teams should merge. What they should do is find an appropriate level.

[StandFree_MainStand]

There is a place for every team and it's a bit hunnish or timmish to say wee teams should merge. What they should do is find an appropriate level.

 

 

 

Now... theres an idea!

[Bobbyskitter]

I've thought for a while that one way of changing the set up of the league is to do something totally different with distribution of points to encourage teams to play more attacking football, added bonus would hopefully be attracting more supporters back to the game and more TV interest.

 

I'd like to think that's there some way you could change the points awarded so a score draw was worth more than a 0-0, a bonus of 1 or 2 points for every 10 - 20 goals scored, get rid of goal difference and just use goals scored to decide in situations of equal points, then maybe away goals scored if still equal. I also can't help but think that the away team should keep a percentage if not all of the gate their support makes up, knowing your team is going to get something out of it might encourage more away fans on a shitty night in December.

 

Don't know if any of those ideas would be workable but I don't think their any worse than what's currently in place.

[V for Vendetta]

Love the thinking on the franchise idea and also on regional championships.

 

One thing does strike me though - if you look down the list of teams in Kelt's WCL, I reckon every one of those teams and their fans would happily take that even if they were told it was in the rules that only the OF are allowed to win. Thats a list of subservient clubs if ever I saw one.

 

However I don't just quite see it myself, sorry. One thing I never understand is when people talk about too many clubs. That just doesn't make any sense to me - how does forcibly removing clubs in any way help?

 

For me its nothing to do with the number of clubs - its about having a proper system where clubs can find their level. In a properly structured pyramid system it doesn't matter how wide the base is as long as the quality at the very top is of the required level.

 

A lot of the dross currently in Div 2 and 3 should be allowed to drop down and ambitious clubs should be pushing up from the highland league etc.

[tommo1903]

When the journalists say that Scottish football will die, what exactly do they mean by that? Sure, the SPL will be at a bit more risk, and If by some miracle , the dons, hibs, hearts, united and the rest of the SPL clubs had to fold due to the lack of income without our beloved Glasgow Rangers, would all the fans start watching rugby? No, because they still want to watch football. They would pay money, to watch football.

 

Furrastart, you'll have 50,000 huns that go most weeks needing to find another team. Even if 10,000 decide to pick a wee team to follow, most likey Partick Thistle or the likes, then they will.

 

If the SPL was to fold, but you'd the guts of, say 150,000 football go-ers without a game of football to go to. So they'll flock to the SFL, and the Highland League, and go an watch Spartans or Pollock or whatever. It will probably even itself out across the board, the likes of Brechin Vics and Montrose Roslea picking up 50 or so fans, thus creating a market with the fairest distribution of market share in any industry in the country.

 

Surely it would be in the best interests of competition if the bigger clubs weren't around?

 

Anyway, I've got off topic. Scottish football needs a solution. It is lucky that, I am the hero that can offer that solution. HOW? I hear you cry? Fear not, I got this one.

 

Scottish First Division (use of the word premier is hereby banned) = 16 teams

Scottish Second Division = 16 teams

Scottish Third Division = 16 teams.

North of Scotland Fourth Division = 16 teams

South of Scotland Fourth Division = 16 teams

 

Mind blowing, I hear you say. You would be correct.

 

Each team will have 30 League games a season.

The team that comes top in each division, is the champions (believe it or not!)

The team that comes second in the divisions where promotion is possible also goes up.

In the top division, 3rd/4th/5th/6th play off for the 3rd place and the remaining Europa Leage spot (the other two have gone to League Cup and Scottish Cup)

The teams that come 15th & 16th in each league are relegated.

The teams that come 3rd and 4th in each division where promotion is possible, and 13th and 14th where relegation is possible in each division are entered into a play off. Winners of the 3rd/4th place play off get a chance to play the losers of the 13th/14th place play off for the potential 3rd promotion/relegation in the league.

 

The League Cup would be played by the top 3 divisions, and right at the start of the season before the league begins. The winners would get the lowest ranking Europa League spot. Divisions 2 and 3 play each other in a playoff, two legged, winner gets through to League Cup Group Stages. Losers in each play off join the 4th division teams in something similar - 4th division teams play off, winners meet League Cup play off losers in Secondary Cup.

 

Champions League format, top 8 teams are seeds group 1, bottom 8 teams in first division are seeds pot 2. The rest are unseeded. Each group will have 2 First Division teams, 2 less division teams.

 

THE REASONS, YOU ASK? Well, it gives each first division team a guaranteed 36 games per season (30 League games + 6 League Cup games), gets them used to playing football over two legs (which would help in Europe) when it comes to knockout stages. Gives the smaller teams a better shot at playing two bigger teams at home and boosting crowds. Play the group stages before the season begins as you can get two games per week at the start of a season (weather wise), and players should be sharper then. Teams that are in Europe already can stick out a youth team if they want to relieve the pressure of playing in Europe and League Cup.

 

Everyone will then be 6 games in before the season starts, form established. Play 30 games, international breaks can be longer, helps the national team etc.

 

Promotion/Relegation from 4th divisions into whatever league someone else sees fit.

 

Flawless. Doncaster, you are welcome.

[barassie_afc]

Love the spirit of the idea, but frankly its a waste of time discussing, nothing will change

[Bluto10]

Bear with me on this one... I was having a discussion with a mate about the state of Scottish football and came up with this "needs work" version of events.

 

What if Scottish Football was revamped in some sort of regional franchise ?

 

For example, 2 Glasgow teams, 2 Edinburgh teams, 1 Aberdeen team, 2 Dundee teams if you must, Inverness... And then you start tearing up the rulebook, a franchise team for Fife, Stirling, The Highlands, The Borders, Lanarkshire etc...

 

Let's face it we have 42 teams for a country of under 6 million.... And financially they're all mostly fucked... How many shite teams are there around the country with sub 4 figure gates ? Scottish football is desperate for a revamp, as spectators we're desperate for a revamp... Do they all have to go bankrupt for a move to happen ?

 

Just throwing it out there (not that anything will happen) but is it time to change the old way of thinking and come up with something new ?

 

Discuss.

 

ages ago had a debate v.d.a. on mergeng teams. personally way fwd but not many others agree.

[Bluto10]

why was bluto slated for the thought of mergng teams but kelt etc are agreed w1th?

[BrianFaePerth]

why was bluto slated for the thought of mergng teams but kelt etc are agreed w1th?

 

Because he talked about himself in the third person.

[fine-n-dandy]

Bear with me on this one... I was having a discussion with a mate about the state of Scottish football and came up with this "needs work" version of events.

 

What if Scottish Football was revamped in some sort of regional franchise ?

 

For example, 2 Glasgow teams, 2 Edinburgh teams, 1 Aberdeen team, 2 Dundee teams if you must, Inverness... And then you start tearing up the rulebook, a franchise team for Fife, Stirling, The Highlands, The Borders, Lanarkshire etc...

 

Let's face it we have 42 teams for a country of under 6 million.... And financially they're all mostly fucked... How many shite teams are there around the country with sub 4 figure gates ? Scottish football is desperate for a revamp, as spectators we're desperate for a revamp... Do they all have to go bankrupt for a move to happen ?

 

Just throwing it out there (not that anything will happen) but is it time to change the old way of thinking and come up with something new ?

 

Discuss.

 

 

Sorry but that seems like too much of a big team/bully attitude & fk the wee teams & their history & their fans & just merge them

 

Why should the wee teams get fkd over & forgotten about just cos the powers that be have allowed leagues to become a farce?

 

What right has anyone to take a couple of minnows & force them to merge just cos they're minnows?

 

Tried to merge Hibs & Hearts & there was all hell on & it should be just the same for the smaller clubs should someone try it.

 

Clach & Cally etc. lost shit loads of fans after they fkd them over

[Bluto10]

nae about mergiing teams.

 

but really why do 2 shite sides in dundee play on the same street??

 

come on min. if its good enough for the milanese sides its good enough for some dundonian pub teams.

 

 

two national professional divisions.

then a highland league and a lowland league.

 

monkey teams to be joined, nae merged, together.

 

lets strip scottish football down to the bare bones and work together

[BrianFaePerth]

but really why do 2 shite sides in dundee play on the same street??

 

 

Good question. The stupidity of the setup knows no bounds. They keep talking about a shared stadium but both sides resist.

[Bluto10]

Good question. The stupidity of the setup knows no bounds. They keep talking about a shared stadium but both sides resist.

 

to be honest you'd be better off playing kerby on that road. probably generate more interest.

 

here is my plan

 

1. aberdeen

2. rangers

3. celtic

4 .harts

5. hibs

6. dundee city

7. dundee utd

 

 

then....

 

8. st johns town

9. inverness and ross county caledonian thistle

10. fife united

11. dunfries and galloway border reivers.

12. central scotland rover

13. partik and queens park athletic.

14. some other shit sides clubbed together

15. see 14

16. see 15.

 

thats the top division. whatevers left can make up the 2nd tier.

 

then you have amateur regional leagues higha and low land division

[BrianFaePerth]

to be honest you'd be better off playing kerby on that road. probably generate more interest.

 

here is my plan

 

1. aberdeen

2. rangers

3. celtic

4 .harts

5. hibs

6. dundee city

7. dundee utd

 

 

then....

 

8. st johns town

9. inverness and ross county caledonian thistle

10. fife united

11. dunfries and galloway border reivers.

12. central scotland rover

13. partik and queens park athletic.

14. some other shit sides clubbed together

15. see 14

16. see 15.

 

thats the top division. whatevers left can make up the 2nd tier.

 

then you have amateur regional leagues higha and low land division

 

 

Get the league sponsored by the Dyslexic Society and yer on to a winner

[Bluto10]

Get the league sponsored by the Dyslexic Society and yer on to a winner

yeah i could do if i cared. or if i corrected spelling mistakes. but why would i do that on a MSN style medium?

 

that is the least funny of all internet jokes, the grammer police. youre funnier than boffon so i exepcted better of you byen, i really did.

[fine-n-dandy]

Good question. The stupidity of the setup knows no bounds. They keep talking about a shared stadium but both sides resist.

 

 

The only way this could happen in Scotland is if the two sharing teams had an artificial turf pitch & that is shite as well imo.

No way would weather in Scotland allow for a shared natural turf stadium (even if we went down the Summer football route) unless they spent a fortune on heat lamps etc. which I suppose with saved cash & combined cash from two clubs, this could be more affordable but it'd be a very risky & even then they'd quite likely need a resurface job done every 6 months.

[Bluto10]

The only way this could happen in Scotland is if the two sharing teams had an artificial turf pitch & that is shite as well imo.

No way would weather in Scotland allow for a shared natural turf stadium (even if we went down the Summer football route) unless they spent a fortune on heat lamps etc. which I suppose with saved cash & combined cash from two clubs, this could be more affordable but it'd be a very risky & even then they'd quite likely need a resurface job done every 6 months.

 

yeah but if they share a ground they can then share fans which will hopefully mean attendances will break the current small-to-patheitic barrier

[vanderark14]

why was bluto slated for the thought of mergng teams but kelt etc are agreed w1th?

 

I disagree with kelt - happy??

 

We don;t need to merge anyone, we need a better set up with lower regional leagues. Playoffs for promotion and relegation.

[Bluto10]

I disagree with kelt - happy??

 

We don;t need to merge anyone, we need a better set up with lower regional leagues. Playoffs for promotion and relegation.

 

intersteing debate. what scottish football needs and doesnt need.

 

i do disagree with you however but i know my views are somewhat extreme and probably nae very common.

[vanderark14]

intersteing debate. what scottish football needs and doesnt need.

 

i do disagree with you however but i know my views are somewhat extreme and probably nae very common.

 

the thing is, for drastic changes to happen it would require all of the top teams to make sacrifices. We already know they won't do this.

[Sydney_Red]

If someone told me 15 years ago that football in Scotland could learn something from football in Australia I wouldn

[Bluto10]

the thing is, for drastic changes to happen it would require all of the top teams to make sacrifices. We already know they won't do this.

 

exactly.

 

i know i keep saying it but change has been decades overdue.

if it wasnt for fergie and jimmclean we would be looking back to the 1800s for the last time competition existed in scotland.

 

we once produced players like law, bremer, mackay, baxter, dalgliesh etc.

we might never have done well at a tournament but we were a big (or rather important) footballing nation.

but now we have arguably the least exciting/competitive league in the developed world.

 

the writing has been on the wall since rangers won their 4th title of their 9.

[vanderark14]

excellent post Sydney red.

 

sadly too radical for the fools in this country who allow the game to be run for the benefit of only two teams.

[dj_bollocks]

No one's bullying the teams into doing anything, however my point was this.... If you spend all your life in Division 3 playing to 500 people every week do you not aspire to be playing in front of bigger crowds and having more meaningful games... Sure there can be a provincial league for the part time / semi professional teams if they want to but most of this idea is about getting people back to the game where right now most couldn't give a fuck... Just how many fans can Stenhousemuir, Montrose and the like have just by their geographical location ? Not many...

 

Hell I'd go as far as disbanding the current heritage entirely by having to rename all the clubs if it made a difference and changed perception. This is about reinjecting new life and new thinking into Scotland's tired game.

[dj_bollocks]

Indeed, good post Sydney Red - in my brief stay in Perth, Australia I went to a few Perth Glory games. And they've got it down pretty well... Not the greatest football spectacle in the world, by any stretch, but Glory were getting approx 9-10k through the gates every other week which grew as they got to the Grand Final.

 

The quality of players is far from World Class but they all realise that they have to play in Europe to be considered good enough to be a Socceroo anyway. And yes, they got their infrastructure right too. Simple fact is Scotland is not a major sporting nation anymore (some might say it never was). After 14 years of being out of the World or European spotlight isn't it time to realise that it's just not working.