Must Work Harder

[Guest]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23021652

 

I think this is stating the bleeding obvious, but the big question on my lips, is how long have we been in position where we've been lagging behind others (Hearts, Motherwell, Hibs etc)?

 

Big name players may cost hard cash, but hard graft and 'boxing clever' doesn't. With that in mind, how many management appointments have been allowed to let this culture cultivate at Pittodrie and why haven't we had a senior management (CEO at worst) who has measurable goals in terms of how hard and how much effort is placed on players and coaches?

 

For example, being allowed to only train for a few hours per day - what's wrong with a full day of work? Doesn't have to be on the ball or running? Can be analytical work, educating them in classroom by watching analyses of how the manager wants the game played etc.

 

The appointment of McInnes may be one of many that actually works - but too little, too late from Milne?????

[johnstrac]

You've got to agree with him.

[RTYD]

I think we will see change in all aspects of the club.

[Ernie McCracken]

I remember when mcnaughton left. He gave an innocent enough interview stating that now that he was going to be playing in the championship he was gonna get in the gym and bulk up to give himself and a better chance of competing. At tne time I was thinking WTF, why hadn't this been done for AFC and why had AFC stood by instead of getting all players into the best possible condition.

[Guest]

You've got to agree with him.

 

Absolutely and I'm super chuffed he's making the necessary changes. But it's basic stuff isn't it. We haven't got the most skillful or talented set of players, therefore we must make up for this deficit in other areas. This is just basic, common sense, in any walk of life.

 

How come Calderwood, McGhee, Brown and how many others before, have been allowed to get away with it? Milne is my guess.... happy to just let the manager get on with things. Little wonder then, that we've achieved the square root of feck all over the last 15 yrs.

[Bobbyskitter]

 

Absolutely and I'm super chuffed he's making the necessary changes. But it's basic stuff isn't it. We haven't got the most skillful or talented set of players, therefore we must make up for this deficit in other areas. This is just basic, common sense, in any walk of life

It is basic common sense but looking at the way the SPL has shaped up for years it could be argued that its not only Aberdeen that need this shake up, Hibs, Hearts and Utd have all worked with finances that would suggest they have been coasting along with minimal effort at times. Not that this excuses what has been happening at Aberdeen, or not happening in this case, but maybe it's a problem that needs a little more thought than just pointing the finger at Milne.

[Ke1t]

It's not really surprising. You look at real leagues like the Spanish and Italian, and any time they're speaking about their eating regime it's about being careful what they eat, what they drink, and keeping their bodies in the kind of condition you would expect an athlete to be in.

 

Then you look at a third rate, backwater league like Scotland and there seems to be no 'Health Culture'.

 

What we have in Scotland is a Culture of Failure, and it permeates every single aspect of the sport. From authorities who are corrupt, boardrooms full of incompetents, and players who train the absolute minimum that they have to, usually on municipal parks, or other pieces of public ground.

 

The Yanks, for all their faults, have an attitude towards their sport that I'd love to see Scotland, or at least Aberdeen, emulate.

 

In an interview after the United States' narrow Confederations cup final defeat to Brazi, after leading 2-0 I think, the interviewer said to Landon Donovan (in a pretty condescending manner) "Do you think other footballing nations will start to take the US seriously after this performance?"

 

To which Donovan basically said, and I'm paraphrasing, "I couldn't give a fuck what other countries think about us. We want to win competitions and we'll do whatever it takes to do that."

 

Some countries take their sport seriously, some countries treat it like a hobby, run for the benefit of the select few.

[King Street Loon]

Totally agree with McInnes.

 

We've been in a malaise for years now and have been driven by people without the will to push us on and improve all aspects of the club.

Hopefully this isn't just sound bites from McInnes and he can push these changes through.

 

The more I hear from McInnes the better I'm liking things and he's winning me round, BUT he needs to get it working on the pitch or it all for nothing.

 

 

 

I was going to start a thread on this, but will throw it in here, seeing as it club related and we could be working harder.

 

One area I feel needs working on is scouting.

What exactly does Craig Robertson do??

 

Unless he's scouting youth at 15-16 year old, then I don't think we're seeing anything from his work.

All our signings seem to come from players that our previous and current managers have known and trusted or have known from their previous postings.

 

I hope McInnes see's through this charlatan and orders an overhaul of the scouting network.

Or have I totally misread Robertson's contribution??

[granite sheep]

No, I think you're spot on. Robertson is a massive waste of space.

[red donut]

apart from McGinn, who have we brought to todders in the last 15years who has actually improved as a player??? I cant think of anyone...

 

as kelt says there is a culture of failure at aberdeen where players come in and get worse, not better...

 

the club is full of deadwood from top to bottom and if McInnes can be the instigator of something fresh and new then he gets my full backing!!!

[Guest]

So what does everyone feel McInnes is getting at in this interview? I mean, he's already pinpointed the need to improve training facilities, which Stevie bloody Wonder could have told you. Christ, Willie Miller was banging on about it even before he was taken on as a Director... nothing ground braking there, but perhaps a sign that there's been a parting of the waves with Milne and his manager?

 

He states that he wants to see folk asking what have Aberdeen been doing - the need for us to be bigger, faster, stronger? Do we necessarily need all of those things? I certainly am an advocate of the sports science - to try and pinpoint why the hell we seem to suffer so many injuries (muscle tears).

 

I think a lot of it is down to a basic lack of desire from players. That comes from within does it not? You are either born to be a winner, or you're happy with being 2nd place. For years, I think the mentality at AFC has been rancid and that permeates from the Chairman down. But have the Managers also been happy to go through the motions? Was Calderwood exstatic at reaching 4th, at getting into the last 32 of the also ran European competition (ie Europa League)? Was Brown silently over the moon at saving us from relegation and making a few bob from selling on players?

 

I think McInnes is possesses all the hallmarks of a winner and I'm sure he'll be pushing for every single person under an AFC contract, to give 110%.

 

I'd personally like to see him ban any speak of 'top 6' shite. We should have our sets sight on winning things... whether that be the league or cups. Euro qualification a must. Let's hope and pray that our buffoon of a Chairman provides him with all the support he needs to get to that position. You don't need a pot of gold to achieve success..... although it helps. But you most certainly need to breed winners and ensure they are equipped to win the battles and win the war.

[barassie_afc]

Element of comfort zone, players come in earn big wages v rest of spl and really dont have to try that hard ? Over and above that you have to ask yourself what structure, if any has been in place, we have had directors of football, scouts, suits, Duncan Fraser should be next out of the door, has overseen increasing debt and complete failure from a footballing perspective

[ChutneyLove]

There was nothing worse than just before the league game against Smeltic last year - when a win would put The Dons top of the league than CB coming out with "Celtic will win the league comfortably." Losers attitude.

[davieb]

There was nothing worse than just before the league game against Smeltic last year - when a win would put The Dons top of the league than CB coming out with "Celtic will win the league comfortably." Losers attitude.

 

Spot on, but Brown always was a loser, look at his record

[diamondsr4ever]

So what does everyone feel McInnes is getting at in this interview? I mean, he's already pinpointed the need to improve training facilities, which Stevie bloody Wonder could have told you. Christ, Willie Miller was banging on about it even before he was taken on as a Director... nothing ground braking there, but perhaps a sign that there's been a parting of the waves with Milne and his manager?

 

He states that he wants to see folk asking what have Aberdeen been doing - the need for us to be bigger, faster, stronger? Do we necessarily need all of those things? I certainly am an advocate of the sports science - to try and pinpoint why the hell we seem to suffer so many injuries (muscle tears).

 

I think a lot of it is down to a basic lack of desire from players. That comes from within does it not? You are either born to be a winner, or you're happy with being 2nd place. For years, I think the mentality at AFC has been rancid and that permeates from the Chairman down. But have the Managers also been happy to go through the motions? Was Calderwood exstatic at reaching 4th, at getting into the last 32 of the also ran European competition (ie Europa League)? Was Brown silently over the moon at saving us from relegation and making a few bob from selling on players?

 

I think McInnes is possesses all the hallmarks of a winner and I'm sure he'll be pushing for every single person under an AFC contract, to give 110%.

 

I'd personally like to see him ban any speak of 'top 6' shite. We should have our sets sight on winning things... whether that be the league or cups. Euro qualification a must. Let's hope and pray that our buffoon of a Chairman provides him with all the support he needs to get to that position. You don't need a pot of gold to achieve success..... although it helps. But you most certainly need to breed winners and ensure they are equipped to win the battles and win the war.

 

He should ban the players talking about anything, he should introduce a media ban, and tell them to do their talking on the fukkin pitch.

[Dynamo]

McInnes certainly talks a good game.

[Guest]

He should ban the players talking about anything, he should introduce a media ban, and tell them to do their talking on the fukkin pitch.

 

I know what you're saying, but I think we've just heard the wrong kind of 'talk' from our players, coupled with shitty reporting by P&J/EE.

 

Players should be encouraged to talk to the media, but more importantly, coached into what the correct way to talk to them actually is. For instance, anyone who utters the words 'top six' should be sacked. Anything that can be thrown back in their faces, should be cut to a complete minimum - ie, We're all fired up to beat Celtic this weekend and you'll see a different Dons side.

 

So yes, less of the talk and more action. But I wanna hear and read stuff that inspires the supporters. Like, working under the gaffer and playing for this great club is a privilage, only few are bestowed. Or, we're grafting overtime to improve our game. And, we have to admit that we haven't been working hard enough under previous managers and the supporters have been short changed over the past few years. That sort of stuff.

 

Or course, a few 'The west coast media have it in for us' kind of remarks, wouldn't go a miss... siege mentality and all that

[Henry]

Another good piece.

 

 

'Diver Terry Dearlove faces a tricky pipeline installation 185 metres beneath the waves.'

Would a programme synopsis of that description have you opting for a night in front of the telly?

It's genuine. And try this one on for size...

'Dockers race against bad weather to prepare a vessel travelling to West Africa.'

Those were episodes one and six, respectively, of BBC Scotland's observational documentary entitled 'The Harbour', which was screened last autumn.

Whether the sound of it floats your boat or not, this show about Aberdeen's busy industrial port drew viewing audiences of around 360,000 each week.

Oh, how Aberdeen Football Club, based just a couple of miles further up the road, yearn for the days when they could comfortably rely on five per cent of that audience to watch their output.

Rather, the Pittodrie outfit recently took the unprecedented step of announcing that the upper deck of its flagship Richard Donald Stand would be closed during the 2013-14 season so other areas of the ground become more concentrated with support.

Fans being permitted to drape some sort of banner over that upper tier is scant consolation.

The job of fostering something at Pittodrie that can at least begin to rival the popularity of The Harbour falls to Aberdeen manager Derek McInnes.

"We know the impact that a strong Aberdeen team can have," he told BBC Radio Scotland.

"If Aberdeen's successful, the whole of Scottish football feels it.

"No matter how successful some clubs in the SPL are, there is a limit to what they can bring in support-wise and that's frustrating.

"But the Aberdeen fans are there, we just need to get them to believe and fall in love with the team again."

While he talks, McInnes is already slipping, whether consciously or unconsciously, into calling the Dons "my club".

"The reason I'm at Aberdeen, and want to be manager of Aberdeen, is because the demand and pressure to have success from support is exactly what I want to be involved in as well," McInnes said.

"Hopefully, we can get a team on the pitch that can match that expectation.

"For me it's all about trying to get a way of work and practice that stands us in good stead for going forward.

"I expect us to improve this season and how much improvement we can get remains to be seen. But I do expect that, over the next few seasons, we'll have a team that Aberdeen can be proud of."

The Harbour's executive producer, David Harron, is proud of what he's provided for his audience.

A second series has been commissioned for the autumn, and Harron's intention is "to retain some of the characters who had become established", while "adding some interesting new faces".

McInnes's policy for the Dons over the close-season hasn't been far off that.The man dubbed by Owen Coyle as "a terrific people person" has used exemplary interpersonal skills to tie down 21-goal forward Niall McGinn and promising midfielder Ryan Jack to new contracts.

Short of talking Eoin Jess out of retirement, the 41-year-old former St Johnstone and Bristol City boss couldn't have pulled off a better coup.

And, as far as the interesting new faces go, McInnes offers mascot-sized midfielder Willo Flood, Inverurie-born Barry Robson and striker Calvin Zola, who at 6 ft 3 in, is likely to give the Paul Hanlons and Ryan O'Learys of this world something to think about.

A goalkeeper and left-sided player are likely to follow, as McInnes manages a budget which he reveals is, if you don't mind going back to fractions again, one eighth of what he had at Bristol City when he took over at Ashton Gate.

McInnes feels Aberdeen have been guilty of not working hard enough in the past and is eager to ensure Aberdeen make "a better fist of things in the cup competitions" over and above a better goal-scoring record at home.

He is clear on what's required as he sits at the club's steering wheel.

"Any manager has got to drive," he explains. "They set the tempo at the club.

"Eventually you get to a stage, certainly I had it at St Johnstone, where you don't crack the whip - you've got too many good types in your building.

"Training becomes second nature, you're always ready to go to war at three o'clock and you're always competitive.

"More than talent, as a manager you look for personalities and types and guys who look to get something from their training every day.

"We'll be the catalyst, we'll drive it. I'll make sure the players enjoy their training but there won't be a day that they won't think they've learned something."

As McInnes's appearance on BBC Radio Scotland's Sportsound drew to a close, one listener sent in a text which read: "Derek McInnes; a total breath of fresh air. If the team plays as good as he talks, we're winning the treble next season."

His response was light-hearted: "I knew I shouldn't have come in here!"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23022517

 

[King Street Loon]

Another good piece.

 

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23022517

 

That is a decent piece.

 

I've been searching online for a link so o can listen to Sarurdays show, but had no success.

Anyone able to oblige????

[Ke1t]

McInnes certainly talks a good game.

 

This is correct.

 

Saying all the right things is meaningless if we finish 9th for the 5th year in a row.

 

I qualify last season as a 9th place finish, because we only finished in 8th because the Huns went extinct. Had they been there we'd have finished 9th yet again.

 

So next year, I'd say even a 7th place spot is the equivalent of 9th, given the Huns' extinction and the implosion of Hearts.

 

Doesn't matter if McInnes promises free blowjobs to all season ticket holders, if he finishes 7th we've not progressed. If he finishes lower than that then we've gone backwards.

 

I'll warm to McInnes if he has the team playing actual football, and if we challenge for something. That shouldn't be too difficult in this 3rd rate league, even with budget restrictions.

[Guest]

This is correct.

 

Saying all the right things is meaningless if we finish 9th for the 5th year in a row.

 

I qualify last season as a 9th place finish, because we only finished in 8th because the Huns went extinct. Had they been there we'd have finished 9th yet again.

 

So next year, I'd say even a 7th place spot is the equivalent of 9th, given the Huns' extinction and the implosion of Hearts.

 

Doesn't matter if McInnes promises free blowjobs to all season ticket holders, if he finishes 7th we've not progressed. If he finishes lower than that then we've gone backwards.

 

I'll warm to McInnes if he has the team playing actual football, and if we challenge for something. That shouldn't be too difficult in this 3rd rate league, even with budget restrictions.

 

You're a hard man to please Kelt, it must be said.

 

No one can deny that everything he's done so far, smacks of downright common sense. I can't remember the last time a manager has managed to replicate the wishes, desires, observations of the paying support. Basic things like we're not fit enough, we're not prepared enough in terms of training facilities, we had players in the team who were not pulling their weight, the shape of the team was all wrong.

 

Not only is he addressing these things, he's speaking in common sense language. If it's easy for us to comprehend and relate to, then it should be even easier for his players. He had fire in his belly - this alone should ignite the passion and desire in our club.

 

Yes, of course we've all had our fill of false dawns.... and year after year of abject failure has made even then most optimistic person a glass half empty sort of guy. But we, as supporters, can also play our part in a sense of renewed enthusiasm. Come on Kelt - break into a smile min. We know your capable of one.

[Ke1t]

You're a hard man to please Kelt, it must be said.

 

I'm really not... all I demand is the bare minimum of competence.

 

The litany of incompetence at AFC is as depressing as it is lengthy... and hiring incompetent managers is practically a tradition at Aberdeen by this point. I'll only believe tradition has been broken when I see it with my own eyeballs. Hearing how great McInnes might be moves me not. He'll be judged on style of play and league position... apparently in his last job he had no identifiable style of play and he got his club relegated.

 

Now the facts stand in stark contrast against him 'saying the right things'.

 

I'm not hard to please, but his recent CV gives me huge amounts of concern, and it should concern others too.

 

Remember, he wasn't hired because he's a good manager, he was hired because we got him for nothing, him having been fired for incompetence.

 

And remember what I said about Aberdeen having a tradition of hiring incompetent managers?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Karl Fletcher]

You're a hard man to please Kelt, it must be said.

 

No one can deny that everything he's done so far, smacks of downright common sense. I can't remember the last time a manager has managed to replicate the wishes, desires, observations of the paying support. Basic things like we're not fit enough, we're not prepared enough in terms of training facilities, we had players in the team who were not pulling their weight, the shape of the team was all wrong.

 

Not only is he addressing these things, he's speaking in common sense language. If it's easy for us to comprehend and relate to, then it should be even easier for his players. He had fire in his belly - this alone should ignite the passion and desire in our club.

 

Yes, of course we've all had our fill of false dawns.... and year after year of abject failure has made even then most optimistic person a glass half empty sort of guy. But we, as supporters, can also play our part in a sense of renewed enthusiasm. Come on Kelt - break into a smile min. We know your capable of one.

 

'kin hell TWL min.

 

You were ready to turn your back on the Club a couple of months ago over a seat.

 

Amazing what a bit of action and forward planning by the new Manager can do.

 

And FWIW, agree with everything you've said.

 

COYR!

[Stoneybloke]

I agree that McInnes has been producing some good PR so far, and I am allowing myself to feel just a little bit optimistic. However league tables don't lie and I reserve judgement until at least January 2014. That will tell me how good a manager he actually is. The hope is always there, but too many let downs in the last 20 years counteract any tendencies to let the imagination go too far.

Past history has shown that caution is the best policy.

[The Hulk]

This bit:

 

"Eventually you get to a stage, certainly I had it at St Johnstone, where you don't crack the whip - you've got too many good types in your building.

"Training becomes second nature, you're always ready to go to war at three o'clock and you're always competitive.

"More than talent, as a manager you look for personalities and types and guys who look to get something from their training every day.

 

Is right. It;s the old Brian Clough mantra - "surround yourself with good people and the rest takes care of itself." We've had too many charlatans come through that door - decent players, horrible people. It has to be a personality thing, or else lead paint sapping player's ability, because we've had some pretty good players over the past 10 years who just haven't done it. Pittodrie has been a toxic energy dump for too long. It's been said to death over the past weeks that McInnes talks a good game, and I wholeheartedly agree. I just hope he's the man who puts it into practice. I have a good feeling that we'll start the season well.

[The Boofon]

0-0 first game.

[spamspamspam]

How come Calderwood, McGhee, Brown and how many others before, have been allowed to get away with it? Milne is my guess.... happy to just let the manager get on with things. Little wonder then, that we've achieved the square root of feck all over the last 15 yrs.

 

 

Calderwood - Never managed at any real club before us. Old school, idea of team building was getting them all down the pub, idea of additional training, making them run to the pub from the university pitches.

McGhee - tried, players revolted, they refused to play, he was pumped

Brown - Old school, taken in to make sure we werent relegated.

 

McInnes - New style manager, relies on sports science, stats, etc to look at how to improve. Probably doing a lot of the same things McGhee tried minus the fucking cold river in Austria. Not such an old boys club as it was though 4 years ago so his methods will be taken on board by the players instead of them grouping together and heading down the pub.

[Foster14]

This is correct.

 

Saying all the right things is meaningless if we finish 9th for the 5th year in a row.

 

I qualify last season as a 9th place finish, because we only finished in 8th because the Huns went extinct. Had they been there we'd have finished 9th yet again.

 

So next year, I'd say even a 7th place spot is the equivalent of 9th, given the Huns' extinction and the implosion of Hearts.

 

Hearts implosion either happened last year and we finished 10th by your logic, or it will only be the 8th place that is equivalent of 9th next season...

[ChookterDon]

It's refreshing to see a younger manager in charge. Here's a question for you though...Who is our youngest manager ever? Most of the management we've had have been old duffers 50+

[Karl Fletcher]

It's refreshing to see a younger manager in charge. Here's a question for you though...Who is our youngest manager ever? Most of the management we've had have been old duffers 50+

 

Alex Ferguson was the youngest, I think.

 

Appointed 6 months before his 37th birthday.

 

Billy McNeil, Willie Miller and Roy Aitken not far behind at age 37.