Grangemouth Union Dispute

[Clydeside_Sheep]

So what you guys and gals think of the dispute at the Grangemouth Refinery, between Ineos (owner) and Unite Union?

 

There seems to be two issues in the mix:

 

- the owners want to change the pension scheme from a final salary scheme, to a money-purchase scheme (which is less generous). This is part of a scheme to make the Refinery economically viable again (it loses money just now) so they can win investments to keep it open (say it might shut in 2017 if theres no investment).

 

- the Union resent how the owners have treated one of their reps, who was implicated in the Falkirk MP rigging scandal and has also been accused of doing Union work on Ineos time

 

I cant see how the place could possibly be allowed to close. It supplies the bulk of Scotland and parts of North England with fuels. (it also supplies utilities to the BP facility which takes the Forties pipeline flow from the North Sea; if the BP facility goes down, the Oil Rigs lose a major export route. But BP could always just buy the Ineos Utility plant and so allow the rest to close).

 

I don't think politicians will allow the place to close. It would cause mayhem in the UK and an Independent Scotland could not rely on the import of refined fuels - which would be an absurd and costly situation)

 

I think it will get the investment it needs to modernise and stay open, so I think the company are scaremongering to a degree by mentioning the spectre of closure. However, I support the companys desire to change the pension scheme - final salary pensions are just not viable anymore with the ageing population. Most companies / schemes have already changed. It doesn't even affects existing employees, only future ones.

 

I don't know much about the "treatment of our representative" Union complaint but I don't think it is helpful that the Union is making an issue over one man - while a 3rd party investigation is still on-going. Given closure is mentioned in the grand scheme, It sounds petty to be making a fuss and threatening to down tool over one individual.

 

Thoughts?

 

One final thing - I have never liked Unions as it seems to me to be mob rule. I see they were needed to protect workers before, but now I think there is ample UK & EU legislation in place to do this.

 

The typical Union employee at Grangemouth will be earning about 50-60k per annum and with an excellent benefits package - this is warranted as it is all of shift / skilled and dangerous work. But it seems strange to me that socialist organisations are organising mob action among rich people who really should be Tory voters, if they thought about it for a minute.

[The Boofon]

It was better ran when BP owned it.

[jassb]

When do we start panic buying?

[Jigot]

It was better ran when BP owned it.

The dearest petrol station doon here is the fucker right ootside the refinery gates. The cunts inside the gates get 50K a year for queuing up for permits and think they've actually earned their wages then bum an blaw about their juicey pensions. No wonder the place is loosing money even faster than even sevco fc, ffs. Away and work for a change.

[terenceandphilip]

Cant imagine the public will have much sympathy with the striking workers. Hope not anyway.

[Ohjimmyjimmy]

Fuck 'em I say.

[cow]

Tanker driver must rank along side Train driver in the 'Massively Overpaid' job titles.

[Jigot]

Tanker driver must rank along side Train driver in the 'Massively Overpaid' job titles.

I don't know about that cow, they earned their wages at Kursk back in '43.

[Ke1t]

I'm a huge fan of Unions. Without them you'd be looking at a serf class rather a working class.

 

In fact, in places without Unions you already have that serf class.

[Jigot]

Some Unions are just a waste of "subs". Auld Maggie won thon we tulsie against the miners and changed this country back into a shower of cap doffing peasants we were before WW1

[daytripping]

The miners were wrong to strike, I thought Maggie sticking up to them and crushing the unions was almost the best thing she ever did.

[The Boofon]

The dearest petrol station doon here is the fucker right ootside the refinery gates. The cunts inside the gates get 50K a year for queuing up for permits and think they've actually earned their wages then bum an blaw about their juicey pensions. No wonder the place is loosing money even faster than even sevco fc, ffs. Away and work for a change.

It's more my share options than my pension that I like to big up but as I say, WE sold the refinery and so petrol prices cannot be blamed on US.

 

#thatswhatmillertimewouldsay

[daytripping]

Read the book I mentioned chum.

 

I presume your a working man, why you would choose to side with the people who almost took the country to the brink of economic destruction to crush the likes of us is beyond comprehension.

 

 

I recall the rubbish strikes, bins overflowing for weeks, I recall the powercuts, the strikers outside gates of businesses even in Aberdeen, the unions had the Country on its knees, Maggie fought back and won.

 

We've never been better off.

 

The miners were lazy unproductive wankers, they would strike if the toilet paper was the wrong colour, I have little sympathy.

[daytripping]

Grangemouth needs routed, how can it be losing money, work shy union led militants per chance, probably.

[caledonia]

The miners were wrong to strike, I thought Maggie sticking up to them and crushing the unions was almost the best thing she ever did.

dying being the other

[daytripping]

Beating the Ira and the Argies being the other.

[Guest]

People are lazy. They would be even lazier if they could get away with it.

 

People are resentful too. They hate the fact that others are better than them.

 

These are the sicknesses that breed the entitlement culture.

 

This is the culture that drives union leaders.

 

If anyone thinks a union man is a utilitarian altruist, they're wrong. He is usually a selfish, lazy, bitter waste of space.

[E-P-K]

People are lazy. They would be even lazier if they could get away with it.

 

People are resentful too. They hate the fact that others are better than them.

 

These are the sicknesses that breed the entitlement culture.

 

This is the culture that drives union leaders.

 

If anyone thinks a union man is a utilitarian altruist, they're wrong. He is usually a selfish, lazy, bitter waste of space.

 

 

Indeed.

 

 

And it is no surprise that the militant union leaders are often weegie or scouse.

[Pudgie]

If a business is loosing money, then there should be some sort of law outlawing strikes. Of course they need to pay out less. If that's the only way that the place is going to stay open then what's the issue? It seems that the unions would rather see companies go under and have everyone loose their jobs rather than have pay cuts/dismissals.

[BrianFaePerth]

Mrs Byen has got herself well in to her union here. Not coz she is some raving communist, but with aspirations to be a manager who will have to deal with the fuckers, she wants to see how things work from the inside.

 

It's shocking. They have week-long seminars every month discussing their plans for the annual Spring strikes (unions line up in turn to strike from April to June each year in Norway as there is only one set of negotiatiors). There is outrageous backstabbing. Emails being sent to the full union mailing list from members complaining that someone has called them a name and they don't like it and just general school playground behaviour.

 

They are non-political but have gone in to a fit now that Norway has the most right-wing government possible given the setup. Her most recent seminar was about how the new government (who started yesterday) were going to fuck things up.

 

To my massive pride, she stands up and argues that they are talking shite in almost every debate. Something that has made her very unpopular

[spamspamspam]

Its strange that with all he money in the oil industry refineries find it hard to make money. There have already been a few closures down south, last one being Coryton I think. It seems to be the only part of the industry that constantly loses cash.

 

Its things like this that show how far out of date unions are and why IMO they have no place in Europe, workers get enough protection from the law these days without the need for unions pushing for more.

 

The union is faced with a simple decision, take the offer or lose all their workers jobs within 4 years.

 

Grangemouth may not shut down but it could be downsized. BP still have Kinneil down that way, nothing to say that cant be expanded and adapted to take over from Grangmouth, the work going on at SVT shows the majors arent afraid to invest in terminals and refineries for the right projects.

[King Street Loon]

So.

Am I going to have to panic buy over the next couple of days?

[daytripping]

So.

Am I going to have to panic buy over the next couple of days?

 

It goes without saying plenty people will, probably wise to put a few extra quid in next time you fill up. I think they've closed down now.

[jassb]

Plant to close, so no winners in that dispute.

 

I'm ok for now, I filled up my car yesterday.

[The Hulk]

It's just about industrial sabotage on Ineos' part. They've used this situation to create a smoking gun. They are arguably right to suspend the Union rep until they investigate if he was doing union business on work time, they are almost certainly right to abolish final salary pensions for new employees. The bottom line is Ineos have run the place into the ground. Dark forces at play here. If I were a conspiracy theorist, I'd suggest this could be a ploy to destabilize Scotland's oil supply in referendum year...

[Tommy]

It's a business losing millions every day.

I'm sure they always intended to close the petro chemical operation.

Over 1k will lose their job, it's going to be grim in Grangemouth.

[E-P-K]

 

Is this a crime in the UK?

 

 

Exactly.

 

Surely a union representative has the right to combine his union duties along with his work scope, on shift.

[The Hulk]

 

Is this a crime in the UK?

 

Sorry min, I didn't make that very clear. The suspended guy is alleged to have been contributing to the Falkirk Labour Party MP selection process "scandal" where Unite reps supposedly rigged the ballot in favour of their preferred candidate. This was alleged by Ineos to have been done on work time. So as unrelated to any union work within the petrochemical plant, I'd say that's not likely to be part of his employment contract. It was under investigation and I think he was suspended pending that investigation, which I think is fair and correct under employment law, but quite surprising that the Union don't actually know that, or playing up to it. Then again, Unite did call off the strike, but Ineos decided to shut the plant down anyway. Hence "dark forces". Rumpus mentions GB84, this doesn't smell a million times different.

[Ingolfsson]

It's a business losing millions every day.

I'm sure they always intended to close the petro chemical operation.

Over 1k will lose their job, it's going to be grimmer in Grangemouth.

[Tommy]

 

It's a business losing millions every day.

I'm sure they always intended to close the petro chemical operation.

Over 1k will lose their job, it's going to be grimmer in Grangemouth.

I stand corrected.

It looks a real shithole of a place.