Young Managers, Pr And Modern Coaching...

[Jack_Glass]

Do you think that our beloved manager shows or proves that inflexible old school coaches don't work on the modern footballer anymore, at all levels of football?

 

The game is more technical, we have sports science, dieticians, fitness coaches and modern tactics to now consider. Could it be that simple? That over the years, instead of us getting in a young modern manager, we opted for old school types or was every manager we've had just crap? I think in cases like McGhee, he does not have the man management or PR skills to pull off a modern day managers role, but he may be better at being a coach for strikers.

 

Being a top footballer does not mean you will be a top coach or manager, some top coaches never played pro-football, but have a good understanding of all the aspects of the modern game and are not bogged down with old school philosophy, thus bring fresh ideas to the table.

 

Discuss...

[fine-n-dandy]

Who knows what is best. It's not an exact science.

Some managers have it some don't. Some use modern methods & some don't. Some use a mix of both "old school" & modern methods.

 

We cannot afford "proven" good managers (& which ever methods they adopt) so we have to just get lucky with the likes of McInnes, an up & coming manager who possibly has potential.

 

Hopefully we've gotten lucky this time. It's too early to say but it certainly seems positive so far & long may that continue because it's been a long time coming.

[Jack_Glass]

Good points, but i think now more than ever, we're moving into an era were sports is becoming an exact science and thus modern clubs need to move with this. Obviously finances dictate how well we can do this, but i think every top club requires highly skilled backroom staff in all depts to maximise potential. Even though guys like Sir Alex, best manager ever and an old school type, he had a world class backroom team conditioning and educating the players.

 

I think if any top club fails to see the importance of modern sports science and coaching techniques, they will fail to bring the best out of players. Ultimately a poor manager with tactical awareness next to zero won't help, but i think getting the 'behind the scenes' stuff right is as vital as the manager, more vital because managers come and go.

 

I

[ericblack4boss]

<p>I know that sports science is something that many young coaches today endorse players who worked under Eric Black at Birmingham. Wigan and Sunderland said he was very into that along with most coaches now I think that football now knows that diet and lifestyle can add 3-5 years to players careers. I am certain that the OAF would not believe in it perhaps that explains his inability to find a managers job.</p>

[buchanskii]

It's ludicrous that a sports scientist guy wasn't brought in until this season, considering how much injury problems we used to have.

 

That and finally training on a better surface than balgownie.

[Ke1t]

I don't think it's so much the problem with managers as the mentality of Scottish football that is the problem.

 

From the very top to the very bottom, there's a culture of failure.

[The Hulk]

I mentioned something of a similar ilk in the EPL thread. The new breed of manager is beginning to make their mark as the dinosaurs begin to die out. Wenger, Mourinho, AVB, Rodgers, Pocchetino being examples down there.

 

Here there is still maybe too much old boys network still going on. Former glories still count for too much. The modern game now much more about stats, peak fitness, athleticism & penetration. The 4-5-1 cum 4-2-3-1 cum 4-2-4 is now becoming the norm. Brazil won World Cup 2002 playing like that, an ordinary but Zidane-inspired France used it to devastating effect at World Cup 2006, elite club sides over Europe perfected it, not least Pep's Barcelona and it has filtered now into domestic set-ups where it is now common practice that the traditional no9 role is almost a thing of the past.

 

Maybe when all Scottish clubs embrace these issues over the archaic traditional hammer-throwing failures of the present, then we'll see a renaissance in our game.

 

We're getting it right just now. As are Dundee Utd, Motherwell & Inverness.

[the_shrimp]

I don't think it's so much the problem with managers as the mentality of Scottish football that is the problem.

 

From the very top to the very bottom, there's a culture of failure.

 

Right - and obviously the lack of competition due to the cancer clubs from Glasgow. Thank god Rangers don't exist anymore.

 

Things are slowly changing - but not nearly enough.

[Ke1t]

 

Right - and obviously the lack of competition due to the cancer clubs from Glasgow. Thank god Rangers don't exist anymore.

 

Things are slowly changing - but not nearly enough.

 

I really don't believe things will change, though.

 

There will be troughs punctuated by slight peaks, but the fact that the structure of Scottish football is a closed shop, run by the same people in perpetuity, and designed specifically to revolve around the well-being of only two clubs, means Scottish football will continue to stagnate while the rest of the world zips on regardless.

 

We, as a club, are going through a slight peak, but Scotland's 'best' team sits at the bottom of its Champions League group, behind a very inexperienced Ajax and a Milan and Barcelona who are light years ahead of where even Celtic aspire to be.

 

Guys like Paul Le Guen and John Collins, who tried to adopt the continental model 'Players who aren't unfit shitbags' were ridiculed and chased out of Scottish Football by their own fans and booze-quaffing players... that's the reality of trying to change the culture of Scottish football. I lost count of the number of times I heard the "John Collins showed the players his six pack... what a nob" thing. Whiich to me was kind of missing the point...

 

 

There's an arrogance that "we don't need foreign influence" in Scotland, and we're shit at football as a result.

[Byrne Baby Byrne]

<p>I know that sports science is something that many young coaches today endorse players who worked under Eric Black at Birmingham. Wigan and Sunderland said he was very into that along with most coaches now I think that football now knows that diet and lifestyle can add 3-5 years to players careers. I am certain that the OAF would not believe in it perhaps that explains his inability to find a managers job.</p>

Nae doot

[ericblack4boss]

Was just stating a fact in support of original poster chief . As mentioned to Collins tried to install that mentality at Hibs and he won a

Trophy with that way of working.

[Jings Crivvens]

I guess its also what's taught at Largs as well that influences our type of football. Are the instructors all old School?

[RUL]

Collins may have won a trophy but he also completely lost the dressing room.

 

Another example of someone who believes in that is Di Canio who fell flat on his face at Sunderland.

 

I think for every good manager who believes in sceience etc is one awful manager who believes in it. Similarly for every Ferguson there is a Roy Aitken.

 

It's far to complex a subject but I do not believe football will ever be a science as someone suggested, it's a form of expression, you can not put science into what Messi and co bring to the game, it's sheer natural ability which will never b e taught, it's about finding gems like him and honing their talent.

 

There is probably a Messi in every country, the factors that dictate making it is nothing to do with science. It's to do with upbringing, parenting to an extent, the right opportunities and a stack of luck.

 

McInnes isn't better than McGhee because he believes in sports science, modern techniques etc, I am fairly sure McGhee believes in all that too, it's about being able to spot a player and bring them into the squad, about doing what Ferguson did at Man Utd, seeing talent and introducing it, playing players in different positions than you'd expect for the good of the team. Is Butcher sitting at Caley or now Hibs studying the science of the game or is he out in his car trying to find the next 30 goal a season striker? The players make the game, not science.

[Bluto10]

i dont think there is any such things a a 'modern' manager.

 

jose mourinhio is no different to an old timer like fergie or clough or whomever.

[BrianFaePerth]

The players need to want to learn. If they are getting paid big money and would rather be off humping their WAGs or roasting some slut than learn, it doesn't matter who the manager is. All he can do is get rid of them.

 

Look at other sports, do you think Andy Murray goes out on the razz several nights a week afore Wimbledon? Does someone who devotes their life to making the olympics go on the pish with the boys/girls?

 

Footballers seem to think they are above all that, regardless of their level, and none moreso than in the UK.

There are countless examples of amazing talents who have pished their career up a wall.

[RTYD]

Do you think that our beloved manager shows or proves that inflexible old school coaches don't work on the modern footballer anymore, at all levels of football?

 

The game is more technical, we have sports science, dieticians, fitness coaches and modern tactics to now consider. Could it be that simple? That over the years, instead of us getting in a young modern manager, we opted for old school types or was every manager we've had just crap? I think in cases like McGhee, he does not have the man management or PR skills to pull off a modern day managers role, but he may be better at being a coach for strikers.

 

Being a top footballer does not mean you will be a top coach or manager, some top coaches never played pro-football, but have a good understanding of all the aspects of the modern game and are not bogged down with old school philosophy, thus bring fresh ideas to the table.

 

Discuss...

Fergie evolved. That's it really.

[Bluto10]

agreed dundee.

perhaps its the heavy boozin culture associated with brits, but i doubt many countries could compete with the likes of gazza, best and baxter for a skilled pib team.

 

mind you out of the 000s of footballers out there these days the vast majority are teetotal bores.

[ericblack4boss]

I just remembered an old school manager who is highly regarded for the way he brings through young players Dario Gradi, only Ferguson had served longer as a manager and the talent he nurtured at an unfashionable club like Crewe is unbelievable, so there is a place for some older type managers, BUT they have to be willing to evolve with the game the likes of Gradi did, whereas folk like Brown, Knox, Alex Smith have not.

[barassie_afc]

Mcghee tried with Colin Meldrum but it didnt quite work

[DD1903]

I now work with a boy who played down South with a EPL club, before playing at a few clubs at what is now championship and league 1 level, before coming up north. He said that 20 years ago, when aged 14, his epl club were handing him individual diet plans, training programmes and nutritional info. This was the norm. The other teams he played at encouraged this also.

 

He said the worst thing he did was moving to a then 1st division club, who had a very well known former manager of ours in charge. The boy says that coming up here was the worst thing he ever did. The coaching techniques and styles were years behind and ineffective. He was regularly question by the manager and (old school asst) why he was doing extra gym work and staying behind for extra training.

 

These are guys who are heavily respected in Scottish football for some reason.

 

I also heard that a dick Campbell team talk consisted of '2 touches. I want to see 2 touches. 1 to control the ball and 1 to get it up the park...'

[Bamber]

do think we should be looking at track cycling that has come on leaps and bounds

 

Not by trying to take a short term view and make a big change but instead look at every single aspect of the sport from top to bottom and then making small changes to every thing they do - sometimes it may lead to less than a 1% difference but when 10 or so are added together you get a big step change in performance.

 

For instance - our players come out at they then warm up for 20 mins and then go inside for 10 mins and then walk out onto the pitch and start playing 5 mins later. So they get 20 mins of warm up and the 15 mins of cool down before using their muscles.

 

Victoria Pendleton used to wear heated trousers after her warm up until she raced (not designed to heat her muscles but to prevent heat loss from them). Though there is no published figures there are suggestions it could be responsible for a 5% increase in peak power.

 

Lots of little changes boosting performance by small amounts is better than one big change.

 

I think Track racing is a perfect example of how sports science can turn good into great so shouldn't shy away from it for sure

[Jack_Glass]

I guess its also what's taught at Largs as well that influences our type of football. Are the instructors all old School?

 

Taught in conjunction within SFA guidelines, which explains why our footballers are 15yrs behind the rest of europe. We send folk over to Holland etc to learn new and better techniques to train, yet we don't embrace it. Instead, our countries rife with old school dogma, funny hand shakes and blatant cheating...