Addiitonal Pc Advice (Fao Nerds / Kelt / Others Etc)

[Clydeside_Sheep]

Righto, further to our chat back in december:

 

I purchased a 600W Corsair power supply (gaming series) and an ASUS Radeon 2Gb 7850 graphics card (o/c edition).

 

Fitted them myself (actually pretty easy) with the absolute minimum of collaterol damage. Power supply worked a treat, top of the pops (comparing its build quality and finish to the cheapo standard unit it replaced is hilarious).

 

But...I didnt get any signal from the new graphics card at all.

 

I tried using both VGA and DVI cables (the only connections my monitor has). Nothing. Looked online and this isnt an unusual problem - some suggested resetting the PC BIOS, which I did: nothing.

 

Eventually, I swapped it back out for the original card - keeping the new power supply unit in - and suddenly my picture was back happily.

 

Would you agree with my analysis that, giving the above, the ASUS card must have been f*cked straight out the box?

 

Again, I read online that cards being "dead on arrival" is not unusual (?).

 

Is there any issue I may have missed or not thought of?

 

I ask as my replacement card (same model) is available for collection tonight - they agreed to swap it with no hassle (fair play to them).

 

Should I ask them to fit it this time, just incase the replacement doesn't work? (and so its "on them")?

 

Thanks for any advice.

[Ke1t]

Does the fan on the Radeon kick in when you boot the PC?

Is the card plugged into the PSU?

Is it bedded into the card slot correctly?

Is there any 'wiggling' when you have the card bedded in?

Are then any POST Alerts when you boot the PC? (This will be a beep code... for a GFX card it'll be 1 long and 2 short beeps)

Is the cable screwed properly into the monitor and the card? If the cable isn't seated properly in both the monitor and the card AND screwed in then it may appear to be in properly but the connection may not being made. Screw it in on both ends.

 

I'd also make sure I hadn't dislodged a RAM stick while removing the old card... they can be a bit of a cunt depending upon make, size and configuration. I've seen me ready to take a wrench to GFX cards in particular.. just give everything a quick once over...

 

Is the PC booting? Are you getting the 'No Signal' message on your monitor, but otherwise the PC seems to boot?

 

My rule of thumb with components is that if the old component worked and the new component doesn't (after running through a basic 'connections' test) is to assume the new component is fucked. I'll then take it back to the store and get it replaced... if the problem continues with the replacement then I'll investigate further.. but only after starting with the easy shit.

I definitely wouldnlt start in with flashing or resetting BIOS on a box that is otherwise working fine.

Start with the easy stuff, and progress into deep-diving if the problem persists.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

Hi kelt,

 

thanks a lot for your advice / response, much appreciated*.

 

(*i was going to say "you will get your reward in heaven", but didnt want to provoke you, incase I needed further assistance lol)

 

- yes the two fans of the new card spun-up fine when the PC was turned on

- there was a little green light next to where the graphics card power supply plugs in, which I presumed meant it was happy with its power supply (green is never bad, right, other than sellick?)

- when I turned the PC on, it seemed to boot up just fine and normal, 'cept the monitor would remain black (went into a stand-by mode)

- no beeping occuring at any time, from anywhere

- I had the cards in/out a few times, (the old one always worked and the new one never), so I think the card was definitely seated OK - I wasnt doing anything different with each of them

- the newer card is much bigger than the old, but it fits into the case OK and seemed very snug and secure in the PCI-E slot, no drooping or whatever.

- definitely didnt touch / dislodge the RAM. This motherboard only has 2 RAM slots (hosting 8Gb combined) and I never went near them

 

The BIOS reset was an act of desperation, but has not caused any issues when back using the old card. I did it after reading online that a reset cured the same problem for someone else, with the same card. I did it via removing the battery on the motherboard for a time, as I could not access BIOS via windows 8 and could not find the jumper switch on motherboard.

 

There was another suggestion about various tinkering with the RAM and then trying the graphics card, but I didnt go there. if I keep going into the case, its only a matter of time before I succeed in damaging something vital.

 

Some suggestions also related to drivers - but even with my system wholly clear of the former Nvidia drivers, still nothing. I could not install the Radeon drivers, as I would get a prompt telling me to install the card first, but then when I did, I couldnt see anything on screen to do the drivers lol. So currently using the old nvidia card with no drivers for normal PC use.

 

With the replacement, my worry is that (after opening the packaging) I am in the same boat. Do you think I should contact ASUS tech support, before opening the replacement card packaging? Is some crazy compatibility issue possible? Asus say they respond within two business days. There was a lot of threads online about no signal, with the same or similar cards, so they will definitely have heard about this before.

Thanks again

[Ke1t]

Well, it sounds like it's getting power, it's seated properly if there's no POST Alert... these are good things.

 

Some people will have you resetting BIOS and CMOS as the very first thing to try when you're having a problem, and I'm going to warn you against taking that kind of advice... It would be like your car not starting and your neighbour afvising you to strip out the engine before you even check the spark plugs.

 

It could be a driver issue, but I doubt that's very likely... in my experience a card that's working but not communicating via proprietary drivers will still give you a signal even if only in VGA mode. In other words... it'll look like you're using a Spectrum 48k, but regardless you'll have a picture, allowing you to install drivers post hardware install.

 

Next step would be to boot in safe mode, if you haven't already, ... if there's still no signal I'd hazard a guess that it's nothing to do with the driver at all. Try connecting with DVI and HDMI alternately, to see if either works. I've seen (as in my current card) giving a signal via DVI but not HDMI, and vice versa is possible.

 

Try a different monitor if you can, I have seen a card simply unable to power up a monitor, the signal to let the monitor know there's a live video signal just doesn't get through...

 

All these are fairly straightforward MCDI* first line checks, before you start getting into more technical areas like BIOS, CMOS or system files. You can do these things without worrying you're going to brick your box or get yourself into a situation where you're in over your head.

 

At this point I'd consider one of two options... first, if it's a known issue with your card then the fastest and most straightforward way of getting it working is to call their tech support. They'll have the fix written on a piece of card right in front of them, and if you can get through 'Dave's' thick Indian accent then that makes most sense as your next move.

 

If that doesn't work then they'll almost certainly tell you it's a hardware issue with the card and advise you to return it for a replacement... whether that's actually true or not.

 

 

* Monkey Can Do It

[Bebo]

The 7850 needs two 6 pin cables to power it.

 

 

...you have got two 6 pin cables plugged into it, right?

[caledonia]

The 7850 needs two 6 pin cables to power it.

 

 

...you have got two 6 pin cables plugged into it, right?

Not unless he has 2 cards and is using crossfire as far as I know

[Bebo]

Not unless he has 2 cards and is using crossfire as far as I know

 

It's O/C'd so could very well need two.

[Ke1t]

If it has two sockets he needs to plug them both in.

 

...but we've already checked our cables, right, CS?

[Clydeside_Sheep]

Evening all

 

Well, the suggestion about it needing two power cables had me sh*tting it, so I double-checked and it indeed only needs two for crossfire (was sure I had only seen 1 power connection, but never hurts to check).

500W (or greater) power supply with one 75W 6-pin PCI Express power connector recommended.

600W power supply (or greater) with two 75W 6-pin PCI Express power connectors recommended for AMD CrossFire™ technology.

http://www.amd.com/uk/products/desktop/graphics/7000/7850/Pages/radeon-7850.aspx#2

 

So, confident the Power is adequate!

 

Edit - I have the replacement now, but havent dared open the box.....

[Ke1t]

Evening all

 

Well, the suggestion about it needing two power cables had me sh*tting it, so I double-checked and it indeed only needs two for crossfire (was sure I had only seen 1 power connection, but never hurts to check).http://www.amd.com/uk/products/desktop/graphics/7000/7850/Pages/radeon-7850.aspx#2

 

So, confident the Power is adequate!

 

Edit - I have the replacement now, but havent dared open the box.....

 

Do you have two 6 pin plugs?

 

Not to contradict the user manual, but I would plug them both in if you have the available plugs.

 

EDIT: That is if you still have no luck getting a signal to the monitor... it could be a power issue.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

Some people will have you resetting BIOS and CMOS as the very first thing to try when you're having a problem, and I'm going to warn you against taking that kind of advice... It would be like your car not starting and your neighbour afvising you to strip out the engine before you even check the spark plugs.

 

Yikes, I was straight in there without hestiation too! Its lucky I didnt f*ck things right up then, eh?

 

Next step would be to boot in safe mode, if you haven't already

 

With this effing windows 8, I cant access BIOS or anything like that. Ive tried to start in safe mode too but failed to do so. I really resent the changes in this windows version as it robs your modest knowledge you learned on the previous versions and leaves you (even more) clueless. I hate that mobile phone type screen it presents you with too - argh!

 

Try a different monitor if you can, I have seen a card simply unable to power up a monitor, the signal to let the monitor know there's a live video signal just doesn't get through...

 

Only one monitor here sadly, a Dell something or other. Its quite old (6-7 years) but never had any bother with it. I have the model number and will include it in my tech support email.

 

The wife is getting me a new monitor for my birthday (21) in a few weeks though, I had wanted a bigger screen. She got me Aberdeen tickets 2 yrs ago - another ruined birthday - wont make that mistake again! (the game where the potato peelers f*cked us 4-1 at hampden).

 

the fastest and most straightforward way of getting it working is to call their tech support. They'll have the fix written on a piece of card right in front of them, and if you can get through 'Dave's' thick Indian accent then that makes most sense as your next move.

 

Roger. It would be nice if ASUS gave some guarantee on the item, as I wonder if the shop would be happy to swap it again (if the replacement was also problematic).

Though if the replacement is troublesome I would likely switch to a different model altogether.

 

* Monkey Can Do It

 

Can he indeed?

 

I will PM him and he can get himself round here!

 

Cheers

[Ke1t]

 

Yikes, I was straight in there without hestiation too! Its lucky I didnt f*ck things right up then, eh?

 

 

With this effing windows 8, I cant access BIOS or anything like that. Ive tried to start in safe mode too but failed to do so. I really resent the changes in this windows version as it robs your modest knowledge you learned on the previous versions and leaves you (even more) clueless. I hate that mobile phone type screen it presents you with too - argh!

 

 

Only one monitor here sadly, a Dell something or other. Its quite old (6-7 years) but never had any bother with it. I have the model number and will include it in my tech support email.

 

The wife is getting me a new monitor for my birthday (21) in a few weeks though, I had wanted a bigger screen. She got me Aberdeen tickets 2 yrs ago - another ruined birthday - wont make that mistake again! (the game where the potato peelers f*cked us 4-1 at hampden).

 

 

Roger. It would be nice if ASUS gave some guarantee on the item, as I wonder if the shop would be happy to swap it again (if the replacement was also problematic).

Though if the replacement is troublesome I would likely switch to a different model altogether.

 

 

Can he indeed?

 

I will PM him and he can get himself round here!

 

Cheers

 

 

Sometimes you get no luck with a component, and something like a graphics card or a network card or an optical drive should be completely straightforward. If you have problems with a component that should be more or less plug and play then you probably don't want to do too much dicking around with it.

 

The box I'm using right now just does not like AMD for some reason. Rather than spend 6 hours downloading patches, editing system files and crossing my fingers I spent 20 minutes returning it for an ATI, which worked straight out of the box. Once it's in there I don;t really give a monkeys who makes it, so long as it works.

 

If you have a new 600w PSU installed then you almost certainly have a couple of 6 pin plugs. Even though the manual says you only need one plugged, if you still have problems with the card communicating with the monitor then it could very well be a power issue. It's a damn sight more likely than it being a BIOS or driver issue, if you ask me.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

If you have problems with a component that should be more or less plug and play then you probably don't want to do too much dicking around with it.

Sounds like good advice to me.

If you have a new 600w PSU installed then you almost certainly have a couple of 6 pin plugs. Even though the manual says you only need one plugged, if you still have problems with the card communicating with the monitor then it could very well be a power issue. It's a damn sight more likely than it being a BIOS or driver issue, if you ask me.

Re the power:

 

All the (generic) quick start manual says is

 

"If your graphics card has an auxiliary powerr connector, connect the appropriate power plug from the system power supply...yadda yadda..."

 

and from their card-specific support page:

 

"Power Consumption: up to 150W1 additional 6 pin PCIe power required"

 

http://www.asus.com/Graphics_Cards/HD7850DC2T2GD5V2/#specifications

 

(I found that page via a serial number search).

 

I just did a visual check of the replacement card and can only see one 6 pin connection.

 

I think I will just "go for it" tomorrow - slot the replacement in - and contact ASUS if still have problems.

 

I guess all the things we have discussed are pointing to the original card being a bad un.

 

Cheers

[Ke1t]

Sounds like good advice to me.

Re the power:

 

All the (generic) quick start manual says is

 

"If your graphics card has an auxiliary powerr connector, connect the appropriate power plug from the system power supply...yadda yadda..."

 

and from their card-specific support page:

 

"Power Consumption: up to 150W1 additional 6 pin PCIe power required"

 

http://www.asus.com/Graphics_Cards/HD7850DC2T2GD5V2/#specifications

 

(I found that page via a serial number search).

 

I just did a visual check of the replacement card and can only see one 6 pin connection.

 

I think I will just "go for it" tomorrow - slot the replacement in - and contact ASUS if still have problems.

 

I guess all the things we have discussed are pointing to the original card being a bad un.

 

Cheers

 

 

Looking at the power usage on that card it runs up to 150w, presumably when you're playing Rome 2 on max settings.

 

Your 6 pin has, naturally, 3 pairs of pins at 25w per pair = 75w.

 

The mb pcie slot should also offer 75w, so 75w on board + 6 pin 75w = 150w. Generally when you're using a 6 pin plug the power demand on the pcie slot lessens, naturally, unless your card runs at 150w, in which case it will be drawing full power from molex and slot.

 

Regardless, if this card is rated at 150w and you have just one plug to power it then you should be getting enough power from a combination of the slot and the 6 pin connector.

 

So it shouldn't be a power issue, then, is what I'm saying.

 

I'd cross my fingers that the last card was just a lemon...

[Clydeside_Sheep]

I think I will just "go for it" tomorrow - slot the replacement in - and contact ASUS if still have problems.

 

Well, the 2nd card didnt work either - exactly the same.

 

Cunting piss.

 

I didnt contact ASUS however, (you cant phone them and have to email with a 2-day turnaround) and just took it back to the shop in a fit of petulance.

 

Gave me my money back no bother (Unlike the twat with the laptop making the news today.)

 

So, the upshot of my efforts to upgrade my PC so far amount to having spend about £60 to upgrade my power supply for no particular reason. Tremendous.

 

Will no doubt try some other card and leave it up to the shop to "make it work" this time, or perhaps just spend the money in the State Bar (given the ongoing Clutha situation).

 

I hate technology, a fickle mistress.

[dervish]

What is the name of your motherboard out of interest? I had some issues putting ram in mine turned out the motherboard wasn't fit for it (which it didn't say in the manual because that size of ram came later).

[caledonia]

If its fine with another card and you have tried 2 new cards and they do not work it must be a compatibility issue (2 busted cards off the shelf would be rare)

I would go with motherboard so please download this and see what components you have

http://www.belarc.co...e_download.html

 

just copy what it says under Main Circuit Board do not post any serials

[Ke1t]

 

Well, the 2nd card didnt work either - exactly the same.

 

Cunting piss.

 

I didnt contact ASUS however, (you cant phone them and have to email with a 2-day turnaround) and just took it back to the shop in a fit of petulance.

 

Gave me my money back no bother (Unlike the twat with the laptop making the news today.)

 

So, the upshot of my efforts to upgrade my PC so far amount to having spend about £60 to upgrade my power supply for no particular reason. Tremendous.

 

Will no doubt try some other card and leave it up to the shop to "make it work" this time, or perhaps just spend the money in the State Bar (given the ongoing Clutha situation).

 

I hate technology, a fickle mistress.

 

Sometimes that's how it is... you could have probably made it work, but the time and effort involved would have made it not worthwhile, and if you find yourself involved in altering sytsatem files manually, or patching the device according to 'unofficial' online guides you're better off going with a different manufacturer altogether,

 

I looked your card up on Amazon just by way of investigating, and it says

 

• Minimum Recommended Power Supply 500W or greater with 2x 6-pin VGA power connectors

I think there's a couple of versions of this card, some of which come with an extra power port... and to be honest I'm vascillating between a hardware issue and a power issue.

This card, if it truly only has one external power port, is surfing the very edge of power consumption vs input. If, for whatever reason, your pcie slot isn't getting 75w then it's possible the card is simply not getting enough juice to power the fans, card and signal to the monitor.

In a card with the specs that ASUS has I'd expect to see 2 x 6 pin slots, if not a 6 pin and an 8 pin.

If I were replacing the card in your box I wouldn't rely on maybe the pcie slot giving full power, but would source a card with a couple of power slots... and if you're overclocking the card then power requirements are going to increase on the base 150w, I expect. It's possible that the onboard GDRam on this card requires more power than your pcie slot alone can supply...

Also make sure you have the power cables available to power any future card.

How old is your computer vs this card, which I believe is about 18 months old.

[Bluto10]

Christ min Clydeside, you tight Jew, buy a new one for fuck sake

[bonzodaddy73]

Have you tried turning it off then on again?

[Ke1t]

Build your own... that way there are no surprises.

 

Off the shelf PCs are a disaster when it comes to upgrading and modifying.

 

Even checking the manufacturers own spec sheets will often mislead you. I learned a long time ago that you don't know what's in the case till you have the thing open and are fingering its insides personally.

 

The bottom line is that there are thousands of devices floating around, and there's no real way of knowing if they're compatible until you stick them together. My rule of thumb is replace it once, and if it still isn't working try a different component until you find one that does.

 

Not exactly scientific, but it means I spend the absolute minimum amount of time fixing shit that should never have been put together in the first place.

 

GFX.cards are the number one cunt, btw...

[Clydeside_Sheep]

What is the name of your motherboard out of interest?

just copy what it says under Main Circuit Board

Hi guys

 

Motherboard is: LENOVO MAHOBAY Win8 STD MM DPK IPG

but would source a card with a couple of power slots

How common are these? Is this to circumvent poor dud PCI-E ports?

How old is your computer vs this card, which I believe is about 18 months old.

Its about the same age - we got it almost 18 months ago.

 

I was googling around for the motherboard name and found this, not quite the same but interesting info:

Apparently Windows 8 PC's come with `Secure Boot` & `UEFI` pre-activated, & this must be de-actived for any Graphics card that is not UEFI-compliant

 

UEFI is apparently what assists in the new Windows 8 PC's faster boot speed.

 

Once i turned off secure boot, & enabled Legacy, the system discovered the Graphics card without fault.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-1917792/graphics-card-installation-problem-psu-installation.html

 

This is, there was definitely a "windows 8 ready" sticker on the boxes of both units I tried.

 

Cheers

CS

[Clydeside_Sheep]

you tight Jew

Shabbat Shalom!

Have you tried turning it off then on again?

A great many times, believe you me!

[Clydeside_Sheep]

Build your own... that way there are no surprises.

I did that with my first PC 15 years ago (!) - had it built to my own spec - and that was the best one I ever had. Will definitely do it again in future. i dont know enough about some components.

 

One thing I remember about my new PSU -

 

There are silly decorative lights on the desktop case which change colour depending what speed the gpu is running at.

 

I couldnt hook these up with the new PSU as it was a small wire with a lenovo-specific connection - I had read this online, from others experience, in advance and expected this issue.

 

Id be shocked if that was anything to do with the Gfx problems!

[Ke1t]

 

Hi guys

 

Motherboard is: LENOVO MAHOBAY Win8 STD MM DPK IPG

 

How common are these? Is this to circumvent poor dud PCI-E ports?

 

Its about the same age - we got it almost 18 months ago.

 

I was googling around for the motherboard name and found this, not quite the same but interesting info:

 

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-1917792/graphics-card-installation-problem-psu-installation.html

 

This is, there was definitely a "windows 8 ready" sticker on the boxes of both units I tried.

 

Cheers

CS

 

I wouldn't even waste your time trying to match up whether a certain card is compatible with a certain motherboard based upon manufacturers specs. It's not like MBB manufacturers check every GFX card for compatibility, or vice versa. There might be some discussion on forums, but with the number of manufacturers around, all doing their own thing, the only way you'll know for sure is to stick them in the same PC and see what happens.

 

Believe me, there's no science behind the process... it's impossible to have a list of compatible parts. You're not going to pick up any piece of hardware that has a list of compatible components, that would be an insane amount of compatibility testing that just couldn't be justified. As a result, any computer warehouse worth its salt will replace or refund with no questions asked.

[caledonia]

If your computer is 18 months old its save to add another few years to the mobo age (btw cant find much info on that mobo at all even if it is a rebrand/genetic just for LENOVO)

Next time you are inside just take a note of what it says on the board as this is annoying me now..