Is Engineering In The British Isles In Terminal Decline?

[Jocky Balboa]

For a good few years now, I've been reading with interest several debates that continue in industry and across engineering institutions (professional and academic) about the long-term decline of engineering across the British Isles, but given Aberdeen and the NE remains pretty strong (despite the oil downturn) it would be interesting to get the opinions of this board.

 

A few points for discussion:

 

- There's no doubt that engineering has declined, with the move away from heavy manufacturing (though cities like Belfast have a reasonable foothold in this, albeit a declining one) towards finance and IT-based industry. Do you think this decline is terminal in the British Isles? If so, why do you think this is? If not, where/when do you see a renaissance?

 

- The title of "Engineer" is so widely misused in this part of the world, it's become a joke. How many of us have read RAMS documents and/or job cards, where personnel are named as an Engineer, but who haven't even completed an apprenticeship and/or are only semi-skilled? What about "Sales Engineers" who haven't the faintest expertise in anything other than bullshitting and sales-based KPI's?

 

- Do you think we should go down the road of the many Western countries who protect the title and/or make professional registration compulsory? Will this actually improve recognition for people in the profession?

 

- Many people with engineering qualifications (degree, masters, etc.) either leave the profession, or never enter it in the first place, because of lack of opportunities and/or poor pay, choosing instead to flock to other sectors such as finance. Is this a trend you think will continue? What is the solution?

 

- Are institutions like the IMechE, IET, etc. doing their bit, or are they talking shops who are out of touch with the everyday challenges facing the profession?

[Bluto10]

engineer - meaningless term used by losers

 

 

Industrial countries are the bongo countries doing what the uk did in the 1800 and 1900s

 

It's called evolution jockey min

[Jocky Balboa]

engineer - meaningless term used by losers

 

 

Industrial countries are the bongo countries doing what the uk did in the 1800 and 1900s

 

It's called evolution jockey min

 

Such words of wisdom, as always. I don't know why you even bother replying to anything. Away to fuck and choke on your puke, you drunken cunt.

[buchanskii]

 

- Many people with engineering qualifications (degree, masters, etc.) either leave the profession, or never enter it in the first place, because of lack of opportunities and/or poor pay, choosing instead to flock to other sectors such as finance. Is this a trend you think will continue? What is the solution?

 

 

This is me.

 

I quit my graduate job because I had a sudden realisation that engineering bored me, as does the oil and gas industry. Currently looking to retrain as something else

[Bluto10]

Such words of wisdom, as always. I don't know why you even bother replying to anything. Away to fuck and choke on your puke, you drunken cunt.

Stop asking stupid fucking questions then you dense piece of shit

[Dynamo]

Plenty brown pipe engineers on here.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

Good topic Jocky.

 

My thoughts on your points:

 

Yes, I think engineering is in serious decline in the UK. You mentioned the loss of heavy industry, but there is also the increasing loss of speciality manufacturing, such as pharmaceuticals, to low cost centres such as india and china. For some time the worst of this loss has been staved off by UK companies, by using lots of automation and producing better quality, but the eastern places are catching up quick in those terms. I have worked in 3 different chemical/pharma plants, all of which are now closed due to the production being moved to the east.

 

Looking around, since I graduated in the late 1990s, the industry in Grangemouth and Ayrshire has suffered massive decline. where I work right now, we pap a lot of our more basic work out to India, where it is done for half the cost we could do it for. We just check it when it comes back. (its handy in some sense as, if you make a cunt of something, you can just blame "those fucking indians again". Im joking - they are a good resource, very skilled and helpful). But this "work share" is the future - it means young engineers here have less opportunities to learn, but all that matters to companies is the financial bottom line today.

 

The irish have a scheme going with their low tax for companies, which retains businesses, but that wont save them forever - esp after the recent apple ruling. There are some encouraging signs, the GSK plants at Irvine and Montrose have had recent investment, but that is against the grain I think. I cant speak for Montrose but Irvine is only half the size it used to be, 10 years ago.

 

Ineos Grangemouth invested recently, with the new ethane facilities etc, but the fact they are importing ethane from the USA only shows that the North Sea is nearing the end of its life (not enough ethane comes out of the forties production anymore, to keep relevant areas of Grangemouth running at capacity). So while that is a gain, it shows a loss is in the post and Ineos is already maneouvering in anticipation of this.

 

Ultimately, the UK economy has for some time been moving towards a base of finance and services, which is taking over from engineering/manufacturing.

 

I wouldnt say the decline is terminal - warships will always be built on the clyde,and the defence sector will prevail and there will always be a need for civil engineering, for example, But generally speaking, engineering will probably become an increasingly minor part of our economy, especially once the North Sea goes.

 

I would probably not advise any young person today to do an engineering course at uni.

 

I agree the term engineer is badly misused. "Central heating engineer" for example. Engineers are under valued in the UK. In Germany, they have a status similar to Doctors.

 

I don't think compulsory professional registration will help in any regard. I think it is good that it is something that people need to be motivated to do for themselves.

 

The solution to retaining engineers is better pay. But that wont happen because so much of the engineering sector is already up against it versus places with a cheaper cost base,as above. Better locations would help too, where possible, but then no person wants to live next to a big manufacturing plant. I dislike a lot about working conditions, which I did not know about before starting work - for example: unusual contractual arrangements (many are self employed) and unusual working hours (often to accommodate self employed people travelling from afar). If these were more "normal" maybe that would help.

 

My mate did a post-grad in IT and went into that, mainly because his eng degree was poor - however I wish I had done the same, despite getting a better degree. He now works in a city centre, (I typically have an hours drive to the arse end of nowhere) and enjoys frequent travel to europe and the US (whereas, I have only had two such "jollys" in my career, one to Switzerland and one to Landahn - neither recently).

 

I think the Professional Institutions are, in the main, money-making organisations / taking shops / sales agencies / social circles. I am notoriously cynical though.

[dave_min]

"Heavy" Engineering is definitely in decline.

 

For top end Engineering it's still up there with the best in the world.

 

The word engineer should be protected, it's been up in parliament fairly recently but was rejected.

 

The amount of cunts in Aberdeen who call themselves Engineers with zero qualifications is horrendous.

 

The paperwork required to become chartered is horrendously dull.

[Bluto10]

It's a carch all term Davi min meaning developing through intelligence.

 

Thus unless it's quantified it's a meaningless title used by mongs

[Redforever86]

I lasted 3 months of Engineering at uni before thinking, fuck doing this for the rest of my life.

 

Now, like Bluto, I wash dishes for a living.

 

I think engineering is on the decline, whatever way you look at it the jobs will either be replaced by robots or Asians.

 

We still have the opportunity to keep high end complex engineering design and research in the U.K. Let's hope we don't fuck that up also.

[dave_min]

It's a carch all term Davi min meaning developing through intelligence.

 

Thus unless it's quantified it's a meaningless title used by mongs

Thanks Buddy.

[Bluto10]

I lasted 3 months of Engineering at uni before thinking, fuck doing this for the rest of my life.

Now, like Bluto, I wash dishes for a living.

I think engineering is on the decline, whatever way you look at it the jobs will either be replaced by robots or Asians.

We still have the opportunity to keep high end complex engineering design and research in the U.K. Let's hope we don't fuck that up also.

dreadful

[dave_min]

I lasted 3 months of Engineering at uni before thinking, fuck doing this for the rest of my life.

 

Now, like Bluto, I wash dishes for a living.

 

I think engineering is on the decline, whatever way you look at it the jobs will either be replaced by robots or Asians.

 

We still have the opportunity to keep high end complex engineering design and research in the U.K. Let's hope we don't fuck that up also.

Engineers educated in Asia are all shit.

 

Asians that have been to Harvard/Oxford will eventually take over the world (sorry ISIS).

 

To be a successful engineer in 2016 you gotta understand how the robots work. I've managed to automate about 80% of my job, meaning more time dossing online.

[Bluto10]

Its used to be quite a manly thing to be able to design and engineer solutions.

Now too much blokes ram dildos up their Jap's eyes and bottles of prosecco up their assholes.

The archetypal bloke now is a shadow of his former self.

 

Where once you got hard drinkin hell raisers you now get poofters with skinny jeans and oil of lay subscriptions .

 

We, sir, are a dying breed.

[Poodler]

The archetypal bloke now is a shadow of his former self.

 

Where once you got hard drinkin hell raisers you now get poofters with skinny jeans and oil of lay subscriptions .

 

We, sir, are a dying breed.

Just make sure you live fast and die old min.

 

 

Everyone is an engineer in Aberdeen.

 

I like to engineer internet trolling and vitriol.

[Bluto10]

I live too bloody fast sometimes

[Poodler]

:BEERS:

[King Street Loon]

I work in an office and have the title of Project engineer.

Nonsense title.

[Chewie37]

I've been an Electronic Engineer, a Mechanical Engineer (a few other titles too) and a Sales Engineer. The sales Engineer title was a joke, to try and make useless folk seem knowledgable (except me of course, I knew what it I was talking about).

You can't really say Engineering is in terminal decline as its a term that covers so many different fields. Nowadays it's all about transferable skills, or just changing what you do completely to adapt. I could still quite easily get an Engineering job, but just can't be arsed with it. Like it's been said before, too many cunts who just talk a good game and blag it all day and get others to do their work for them, can't be arsed with useless pricks

[tommo1903]

We have recruitment engineers at work.

 

Wanks.

[BWG]

"Helpdesk Engineer" and "Workflow Engineer" are some of my personal favourites.

[BrianFaePerth]

Fuck my asshole. Recruitment Engineers.

 

I've been a Point of Contact Engineer for a few months.

 

Basically a phone answering engineer before punting the query to the relevant department.

 

It was shit.

 

In modern parlance, a receptionist

[Poodler]

It's this kind of tomfoolery that inflates self importance in this shithole

[dave_min]

It's this kind of tomfoolery that inflates self importance in this shithole

Tell that to the materials coordinator :bluto:

[CraigHill]

Why post this excitement fest on a football forum?

Far too long a post for most on here to give a flying fuck about reading.

Is there not an engineering or politics forum that you might get a better response on Jocky.

 

What's your thoughts on the Dons?

Don't see you post much in the football threads.

[Guest milne_afc]

Haha, WRONG!

 

This is the pub, not a football forum.

 

Top quality posting - NOT.

[dervish]

Engineering in decline? I haven't seen enough to say but there's plenty of jobs in it and I'd say from a UK perspective we're probably ahead of the norm.

 

Qualifications and engineering are (and should be) a serious topic though I would say it's far to easy to assume that getting chartered etc is a massive deal. It's good to do but pretty much it's only of use when shifting jobs. That's partly because of the environment but also because day-to-day 0.fuckall of that education which took ages to get and years to day gets used. The experience is the important bit. Also if the boiler is fucked and it's a gas issue the guy coming to fix it getting £200 for 30 mins work can call himself what he like to me really. Should the term be protected, in terms of qualifications and experience? Yes I think but not having a degree shouldn't be a barrier to getting it.

 

With the CDM regulations are tightening at the same time as HSE basically getting funded by fines they hand out, jail terms being given by fiscals etc over the next few years the environment might (hopefully) tighten up a bit.

[dervish]

Obviously that's not true. Any cunt can.

[dave_min]

Which is why the title should be protected.

[tightbreeks]

Yes, we make f all apart from f1 parts and dyson hoovers. Most engineers end up working for the banks and that, coz they Ken sums.

 

We can't even build our power stations.

 

The gerries have the right idea.