Is Engineering In The British Isles In Terminal Decline?

[zander]

Caring about job titles is for the LinkedIn types.

 

Must be hard having an engineering degree and seeing "Tong Engineers" make just as much money.

[zander]

When you get wankers at places like Aker calling themselves workpack engineers then it's a sad time.

Do you get annoyed about Nursery Nurses being considered as Nurses despite not doing a nursing degree?

[tup]

Exactly Dad. Top posting.

 

The waiter is getting above his station.

[dervish]

Which is why the title should be protected.

 

Protected aye. Needing a degree? Maybe not.

[dervish]

Skills like. Basically to me engineering is making shit or fixing it and hopefully not breaking it or killing yourself or others.

 

If you can do that then fair enough, engineer. Getting checked out and a bit of paper to say that your not a mong needs to happen but a degree is fuck all to do with it.

 

I've got degrees and I'm chartered but nothing I hate more than people who think a degree is a ticket to being a smug useless cunt judging folk who can turn up to a job and get it done.

[Chewie37]

Getting a degree is similar to getting a driver's licence, you have the qualification, but you don't learn how to use it until you use it in real life then actually learn things properly. (Hopefully, if still using that analogy, not mowing down people until you learn to drive straight)

[zander]

Skills like. Basically to me engineering is making shit or fixing it and hopefully not breaking it or killing yourself or others.

 

If you can do that then fair enough, engineer. Getting checked out and a bit of paper to say that your not a mong needs to happen but a degree is fuck all to do with it.

 

I've got degrees and I'm chartered but nothing I hate more than people who think a degree is a ticket to being a smug useless cunt judging folk who can turn up to a job and get it done.

 

Jocky is one of these who moans about things like that. He posted similar bitter stuff in the oil thread about unskilled workers making a fortune.

[Bluto10]

Exactly Dad. Top posting.

The waiter is getting above his station.

Waiter?

Fuck me Tup; that's a new low for you.

[tup]

Table waiting in crap towns in Holland is definitely not in terminal decline.

 

Canna get the staff more like.

[Bluto10]

My town >>>>>>>> wick

[tup]

My town >>>>>>>> wick

 

I don't think so. Time to sober up.

[dave_min]

If Bluto was a waiter he'd be one of those super waiters.

 

Not just hand out meals and collecting empty dishes but fully versed in matching beers with certain foods, a brief history of the said food and ale. He'd fluff up the children's hair and pinch their nose.

The kids would plead to go back the following night to see the funny man.

It would become your regular haunt for the rest of your holiday, even booking your next holiday to the same place such was the level of service and knowledge this humble waiter gave.

But he wouldn't be able to do evening meals.

[tup]

I think you are giving bluto way too much credit.

 

He will be a low performer, alcoholics always are.

[Bluto10]

I think you are giving bluto way too much credit.

He will be a low performer, alcoholics always are.

Well you're hardly high flying are you; stuck in Wick.

It's nae exactly Manhatten, is it?

[tup]

I am certainly not 'stuck' in Wick.

 

I choose to live here.

 

Its better than where you live, I have no desire to drink heavily to blot out reality for instance.

[Chewie37]

Footballers are generally thick cunts, it's the agents who Engineer.....

[tightbreeks]

graeme le saux read the grauniad...in the changing rooms!!

 

no clubs or fiestas for him.

[Chewie37]

Thon Brazillian cunt So Crates or whatever was a doctor. Smoked tabs and drank shit loads. So I suppose there's the odd exception

[Jocky Balboa]

Good topic Jocky.

 

My thoughts on your points:

 

The irish have a scheme going with their low tax for companies, which retains businesses, but that wont save them forever - esp after the recent apple ruling. There are some encouraging signs, the GSK plants at Irvine and Montrose have had recent investment, but that is against the grain I think. I cant speak for Montrose but Irvine is only half the size it used to be, 10 years ago.

 

Ultimately, the UK economy has for some time been moving towards a base of finance and services, which is taking over from engineering/manufacturing.

 

I wouldnt say the decline is terminal - warships will always be built on the clyde,and the defence sector will prevail and there will always be a need for civil engineering, for example, But generally speaking, engineering will probably become an increasingly minor part of our economy, especially once the North Sea goes.

 

I would probably not advise any young person today to do an engineering course at uni.

 

I agree the term engineer is badly misused. "Central heating engineer" for example. Engineers are under valued in the UK. In Germany, they have a status similar to Doctors.

 

I don't think compulsory professional registration will help in any regard. I think it is good that it is something that people need to be motivated to do for themselves.

 

I think the Professional Institutions are, in the main, money-making organisations / taking shops / sales agencies / social circles. I am notoriously cynical though.

 

A very good, well though-out post, but I'll address some of the key points highlighted above...

 

While the ROI, despite its much-publicised problems since the 2008 crash, has long since surpassed the North of Ireland in almost every capacity, this industrial strength has come at a price, namely being beholden to multinationals who set up there specifically to take advantage of the low corporation tax. While it has created - and retained! - many high-tech jobs, I'm not sure it's the best way to go.

 

As for arresting the decline, the British Isles as a whole has massive potential for tidal/wave, geothermal and other exciting forms of renewable energy, not to mention nanotechnology. It does however require vision and I'm not sure the likes of the engineering institutions (or more specifically, the leaders in their ivory towers, with their privileged academic lifestyles) have the vision or the will to make this transition a reality.

 

You've also hit on something huge here regarding advising young people... if my son (or indeed my little girl) were to come to me in the future and say they want to be an engineer, would I be happy? In some ways, I'd be proud they are following a STEM subject based field and pushing themselves in that regard, but in a career sense, I would be very worried for their future job security, income prospects and the overall lack of respect (relative to most of Western Europe, anyway) for the profession.

 

"Heavy" Engineering is definitely in decline.

 

For top end Engineering it's still up there with the best in the world.

 

The word engineer should be protected, it's been up in parliament fairly recently but was rejected.

 

The amount of cunts in Aberdeen who call themselves Engineers with zero qualifications is horrendous.

 

The paperwork required to become chartered is horrendously dull.

 

Like CS, you rightly highlight the lack of protection for the title. Sadly, a small but vocal minority of people in these islands have this egalitarian mindset (and with it, a sense of entitlement) that demands grade inflation and/or recognition for minimum effort. What I would say however, regarding the issue of professional registration, is the inconsistency that goes with it not being compulsory. For instance, someone who installs gas systems must be registered as "gas safe", yet the person(s) responsible for the design and the manufacture of the components do not have this requirement. Surely they are equally accountable, if not more so?

 

I work in an office and have the title of Project engineer.

Nonsense title.

 

I have had that title and agree with you up to a point, insofar as unfortunately the title is given to some who (whether through their own inflated self-importance, or employers just needing someone to do the paperwork they can't be arsed doing) is little more than a high-level secretary.

 

I've been an Electronic Engineer, a Mechanical Engineer (a few other titles too) and a Sales Engineer. The sales Engineer title was a joke, to try and make useless folk seem knowledgable (except me of course, I knew what it I was talking about).

You can't really say Engineering is in terminal decline as its a term that covers so many different fields. Nowadays it's all about transferable skills, or just changing what you do completely to adapt. I could still quite easily get an Engineering job, but just can't be arsed with it. Like it's been said before, too many cunts who just talk a good game and blag it all day and get others to do their work for them, can't be arsed with useless pricks

 

You've hit the nail on the head regarding the lack of control of the title. Further to loss of relevance, knock-on effects are (understandably) a lack of respect from the wider public and poor remuneration.

 

Engineering in decline? I haven't seen enough to say but there's plenty of jobs in it and I'd say from a UK perspective we're probably ahead of the norm.

 

Qualifications and engineering are (and should be) a serious topic though I would say it's far to easy to assume that getting chartered etc is a massive deal. It's good to do but pretty much it's only of use when shifting jobs. That's partly because of the environment but also because day-to-day 0.fuckall of that education which took ages to get and years to day gets used. The experience is the important bit. Also if the boiler is fucked and it's a gas issue the guy coming to fix it getting £200 for 30 mins work can call himself what he like to me really. Should the term be protected, in terms of qualifications and experience? Yes I think but not having a degree shouldn't be a barrier to getting it.

 

With the CDM regulations are tightening at the same time as HSE basically getting funded by fines they hand out, jail terms being given by fiscals etc over the next few years the environment might (hopefully) tighten up a bit.

 

The new CDM Regs are a step in the right direction, from what I've experienced so far. Taking away the "CDM Co-ordinator" as middleman and emphasising more accountability on principal designers can only be a good thing and not only cuts bureaucracy, it puts an onus on people to up their game. We'll see if this pans out in the longer term.

 

Skills like. Basically to me engineering is making shit or fixing it and hopefully not breaking it or killing yourself or others.

 

If you can do that then fair enough, engineer. Getting checked out and a bit of paper to say that your not a mong needs to happen but a degree is fuck all to do with it.

 

I've got degrees and I'm chartered but nothing I hate more than people who think a degree is a ticket to being a smug useless cunt judging folk who can turn up to a job and get it done.

 

While I admire the high bar set in the likes of Germany regarding acquiring the title of Engineer, I like the idea of having 3 designations (EngTech, IEng and CEng) as opposed to only bestowing it upon high-brow academics, the reason being the profession requires a variety of different skills and approaches. I do however think that to call yourself an Engineer, registration as one of the 3 should be compulsory, rather than voluntary.

 

Jocky is one of these who moans about things like that. He posted similar bitter stuff in the oil thread about unskilled workers making a fortune.

 

It's sad that you see this as "moaning" and "bitter", really. I simply believe we as a society no longer value those with creative and/or analytical skills as highly as we should and think the balance needs to be redressed. More specifically, in reference to your comment about my oil thread contributions, many have noted that Aberdeen has been victim of its own success and that far too many had it far too good for far too long. A lot of people in the NE don't/didn't know they were living, until the oil crash nearly 2yrs ago. I can only hope this long-term downturn injects some modesty and humility into that small but vocal minority.

[Chewie37]

That's a quality post Jocky +1 and more

[dervish]

I endorse Jocky's general message. IEng/CEng to me there is pretty much nothing between but protection of the term Technician would be super too.

[Chewie37]

I endorse Jocky's general message. IEng/CEng to me there is pretty much nothing between but protection of the term Technician would be super too.

 

Nail Technicians are important too

[Clydeside_Sheep]

I forgot to include the amount of obvious nepotism in engineering / manufacturing circles as an additional criticism.

[dave_min]

I forgot to include the amount of obvious nepotism in engineering / manufacturing circles as an additional criticism.

It's also massive in O&G. Which is great if you're an Engineer in O&G.

[ab24_5qh]

As a FIET I believe there is a clear decline, however, hopefully it is not terminal.

[The Boofon]

I forgot to include the amount of obvious nepotism in engineering / manufacturing circles as an additional criticism.

There's only one degree that counts when it comes to working in Oil and Gas.

 

Well several actually but getting the first three under your belt give a significant head start.

 

@@tup

[daytripping]

Graham Le Saux is an unbearable ugly chromosome-shy cunt.

 

This is a very little known fact, Graham was born on the same day as me, for the record i'm also an unbearable ugly chromosone shy cunt, must be in our stars.

[The Boofon]

This is a very little known fact, Graham was born on the same day as me, for the record i'm also an unbearable ugly chromosone shy cunt, must be in our stars.

Who was born first?

[daytripping]

There's only one degree that counts when it comes to working in Oil and Gas.

 

Well several actually but getting the first three under your belt give a significant head start.

 

@@tup

 

I'll have to think about joining this masonry malarkey if i'm ever to get back into the oil and gas big bucks, can you introduce me? I'm up for learning the handshake, rolling up my trouser leg and any goat related shenanigans.

[daytripping]

Who was born first?

 

No idea but sure I was an early riser around 4am, so probably me.