Club Building Strategy - Europa Groups =

[Stu255]

Now that McInnes has declared his intention to stay and has said he has unfinished business with AFC that means taking the club further.

 

There is a gap to Celtic, the mission is to to close that gap.

 

But how to do that?

 

Take a look at AFC annual report 2017

https://www.afc.co.uk/2017/11/25/latest-accounts-show-strong-results-aberdeen-football-club/

 

Summary

In.....................£15.3m

gate receipts....£5.4m

Sponsors.........£1.7m

TV....................£2.9m

Commercial?...£4.7m

UEFA prize......£1.1m

 

Out..................£14.7m

salaries............£7.7m

Other stuff........£7.0m

 

 

Boring right? Well the whole club is turning over about £15m a year.

 

Keep that figure in mind and look at the Europa League payments to clubs

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/competitions/General/02/51/12/27/2511227_DOWNLOAD.pdf

 

Dons earned £1.1m from UEFA last year. But clubs that get to the group stage of the Europa League and finish 3rd/4th in their group typically earn £4-5 million in prize money.

 

The biggest target in the near term has to be getting to the Europa League groups, this is more important than taking points off Celtic or losing sleep over ancient domestic feuds.

Progressing through the Europa League Qualifier matches and getting to the group stage brings in more money for the club than an entire season worth of gate receipts. Think about that for a second.

 

Before we can realistically close the gap on Celtic first we have to be confident of qualifying for the Europa groups. This is the fastest way to earn extra money to build the squad.

Also playing 10 games of European football each season opens up a completely different market of players, international players who want to be seen on TV sets across Europe.

 

The biggest pocket of cash in the near term is from reaching the Europa groups. You get £2.3m just for participating in the groups, then another £110k for every group point and then a share of the TV revenue on top.

 

Losing to Limassol probably cost AFC £4 million. That's more than a high spec training facility would cost.

 

Europa League offers an opportunity to grow the club from current level. Just need to break into those groups and it's a £5m purse instead of £1m. With salaries currently at £7.7m that would give a huge boost on the field.

 

 

So forget strengthening a squad for a tough domestic campaign, far better to try and secure the strongest starting XI and rest them so that the strongest XI are at peak fitness for the Europa Qualifiers because winning these 4 games brings in more funds than a year of gates.

 

The great thing is the Europa Qualifiers are all played when the summer transfer window is open. So if we can win them we KNOW we will collect an extra £4m+ from UEFA and can immediately go about adding to the team in August.

 

To push the club to the next level we should mind that June / July are the two most important months in the whole calendar!! Everything should be geared around this, it doesn't get anything like the recognition it should.

 

 

The reason Celtic are so far out is their champions league money, they get £30 million from UEFA,

http://www.ecaeurope.com/PageFiles/8870/UCL%20club%20payments.pdf

 

Whereas the entire SPFL has to share £19m in prize money / TV rights (of which Celtic gets £2.4m). Celtic are collecting £32million prize money each year and the next team in SPFL (us), is collecting £2.8m. That's the gap right there. Nothing to do with crowd size, or history, or rep, or training facilities or any of that, it's the european football that is the cause of the gap.

 

 

AFC have to chase the Europa League in a very serious way to get the resources to go after Celtic. All it takes is the Dons to get a few seasons in Europa groups and Celtic to miss Champions League groups and we've fucking got them within reach.

[Guest]

Like it. Ambition shown. Great points.

 

We do however need to finish 2nd in May to get the opportunities in June and July of course.

[maryhilldon]

^No we don't. 3rd or cup win does it as well..possibly even 4th like Saints this season.

[Chewie37]

If we'd had the squad from last couple of seasons, we probably would've got through, not that the players we have now aren't as good, they just haven't played together as much and had the experience built up as a team. We're probably three good players away from getting into the groups, will Milne and co bet on it?

[BWG]

So you're saying making the Europa Groups will generate some money?

 

[Dynamo]

I think our biggest problem as it stands is getting the team into bloody Europe next season.

 

Finger out.

 

COYR.

[Stu255]

The thing is... those Europa League qualifiers are currently treated as a curiosity, whereas we should be treating each match as a cup final.

The June / July fixtures are worth £4-5 million as I say that's more than the cost of a brand new training facility. Tell the players, if they win the Europa qualifiers they can have a brand new training facility and see how they play.

 

Get past two (usually mediocre) teams and get an extra £4 million. It doesn't matter if we get to the groups and get humped every game.

 

Getting to the Europa groups is what counts. Should be #1 priority going forward.

 

 

Europa groups are the only real opportunity to move up a gear. The entire domestic calendar has little money in it and is tapped out.

 

 

3 seasons in the Europa groups and the club will be unrecognisable, even if we lose every group game it doesn't matter. The participation money alone for the groups is huge.

[boboisared]

Now that McInnes has declared his intention to stay and has said he has unfinished business with AFC that means taking the club further.

 

There is a gap to Celtic, the mission is to to close that gap.

 

But how to do that?

 

Take a look at AFC annual report 2017

https://www.afc.co.uk/2017/11/25/latest-accounts-show-strong-results-aberdeen-football-club/

 

Summary

In.....................£15.3m

gate receipts....£5.4m

Sponsors.........£1.7m

TV....................£2.9m

Commercial?...£4.7m

UEFA prize......£1.1m

 

Out..................£14.7m

salaries............£7.7m

Other stuff........£7.0m

 

 

Boring right? Well the whole club is turning over about £15m a year.

 

Keep that figure in mind and look at the Europa League payments to clubs

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/competitions/General/02/51/12/27/2511227_DOWNLOAD.pdf

 

Dons earned £1.1m from UEFA last year. But clubs that get to the group stage of the Europa League and finish 3rd/4th in their group typically earn £4-5 million in prize money.

 

The biggest target in the near term has to be getting to the Europa League groups, this is more important than taking points off Celtic or losing sleep over ancient domestic feuds.

Progressing through the Europa League Qualifier matches and getting to the group stage brings in more money for the club than an entire season worth of gate receipts. Think about that for a second.

 

Before we can realistically close the gap on Celtic first we have to be confident of qualifying for the Europa groups. This is the fastest way to earn extra money to build the squad.

Also playing 10 games of European football each season opens up a completely different market of players, international players who want to be seen on TV sets across Europe.

 

The biggest pocket of cash in the near term is from reaching the Europa groups. You get £2.3m just for participating in the groups, then another £110k for every group point and then a share of the TV revenue on top.

 

Losing to Limassol probably cost AFC £4 million. That's more than a high spec training facility would cost.

 

Europa League offers an opportunity to grow the club from current level. Just need to break into those groups and it's a £5m purse instead of £1m. With salaries currently at £7.7m that would give a huge boost on the field.

 

 

So forget strengthening a squad for a tough domestic campaign, far better to try and secure the strongest starting XI and rest them so that the strongest XI are at peak fitness for the Europa Qualifiers because winning these 4 games brings in more funds than a year of gates.

 

The great thing is the Europa Qualifiers are all played when the summer transfer window is open. So if we can win them we KNOW we will collect an extra £4m+ from UEFA and can immediately go about adding to the team in August.

 

To push the club to the next level we should mind that June / July are the two most important months in the whole calendar!! Everything should be geared around this, it doesn't get anything like the recognition it should.

 

 

The reason Celtic are so far out is their champions league money, they get £30 million from UEFA,

http://www.ecaeurope.com/PageFiles/8870/UCL%20club%20payments.pdf

 

Whereas the entire SPFL has to share £19m in prize money / TV rights (of which Celtic gets £2.4m). Celtic are collecting £32million prize money each year and the next team in SPFL (us), is collecting £2.8m. That's the gap right there. Nothing to do with crowd size, or history, or rep, or training facilities or any of that, it's the european football that is the cause of the gap.

 

 

AFC have to chase the Europa League in a very serious way to get the resources to go after Celtic. All it takes is the Dons to get a few seasons in Europa groups and Celtic to miss Champions League groups and we've fucking got them within reach.

Good and interesting first post. Welcome aboard.

[Chewie37]

Should we mention how we pumped Copenhagen and then they moved their team forward and were Champions League regulars for a while?

[MegaloDon]

Our management with what we have is not good enough.

That's where you make a difference.

[ABZ RED]

McInnes is clueless in QR3 never mind a play off.

 

Thread ends

[Tord31]

Good post.

 

The club know this very very well. The way they are wording it internally is trying to break into the top 100 uefa clubs as opposed to focussing on one particular season getting to the groups. qualifying for europe every season should make things easier than the last one in theory. I think we are close.

[Bamber]

Your idea is right but not exactly rocket science your numbers though are all over the place

 

1.1m Prize money from Europa actually included 400k from solidarity payments from celtics run

 

UEFA Prize money for group stages is £2.2m and includes the TV rights you say is extra but it doesnt include attendance money which would then push us closer to 4 million

 

However your not telling us anything that isnt known already. UEFA group stages is a game changer for any club except celtic and we are solidly knocking on the door of that - strangely i feel the fact that we entered in round 2 rather than round 1 was a hinderance this year rather than a help. We are better off with those two additional games as a sort of enhanced pre season

[dazzy_deff]

Your idea is right but not exactly rocket science your numbers though are all over the place

 

1.1m Prize money from Europa actually included 400k from solidarity payments from celtics run

 

UEFA Prize money for group stages is £2.2m and includes the TV rights you say is extra but it doesnt include attendance money which would then push us closer to 4 million

 

However your not telling us anything that isnt known already. UEFA group stages is a game changer for any club except celtic and we are solidly knocking on the door of that - strangely i feel the fact that we entered in round 2 rather than round 1 was a hinderance this year rather than a help. We are better off with those two additional games as a sort of enhanced pre season

Agree with this. We didnt look anywhere near as sharp in QR2 and QR3 than normal and this surely was down to not having QR1 and a later start to pre season.

[the sheep]

So if we are to succeed against Europe teams we require a solid defence that will soak up pressure away from home and get that important 0 against away from home, we are far from that. A midfield that are comfortable on the ball and not the tuff tackling midfielder that fans are crying out i.e. Shinnie who we appear to be trying to mould into that midfielder, we probably had that with the Ratt and McLean but again we are now far from that and would need 2 midfielders. We also need a striker with power, pace, good hold up play and can score out of nothing, we don't have that.

 

Derek has two windows to resolve this but also needs to finish second or win a cup.

[Stu255]

The numbers are all correct, I even attached all the official links.

 

See here...

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/competitions/General/02/51/12/27/2511227_DOWNLOAD.pdf

 

 

The £2.2 million does not include TV rights, TV rights are paid from the "marketing pool".

 

The £2.2 million is a "participation bonus" for the group stage.

 

 

The Europa Groups pay out from 3 pots

 

1). €2.6 million = Participation bonus

2). €120,000/group point = Performance bonus

3). €1-3 million = Marketing Pool (TV rights)

 

Gate receipts are on top of all this.

 

Get to the groups and get thrashed 5-0 in all six matches and still walk away with £5m (gamechanging money when squad salary budget is currently £7m).

 

 

Getting past the Europa qualifiers brings in more money that an entire season of gate receipts and if you qualify you know you qualify 6 weeks before the summer transfer window closes.

[muttonhumper]

Out..................£14.7m

salaries............£7.7m

Other stuff........£7.0m

 

WTF is £7m worth of other stuff?

 

Tab at Soul?

Private Eyes invoices?

DMs beard trimmer?

 

New stadium outlay?

Travelling and accommodation costs?

Stadium maintenance?

[the sheep]

Sweetener to help Derek remember how much he loves the club?

[Redforever86]

Ill simplify this for everyone. Do more goals on holiday.

[Stu255]

 

WTF is £7m worth of other stuff?

 

Tab at Soul?

Private Eyes invoices?

DMs beard trimmer?

 

New stadium outlay?

Travelling and accommodation costs?

Stadium maintenance?

 

 

So £3,049,000 of is is "cost of sales" which means buying pies and shirts and beer and stuff to sell to fans. They turn this £3million into the £4.7m "commercial" so this is good business for the club.

 

 

Then £3,684,000 is "other operating expenses"

 

 

Digging a little deeper...

 

 

£2.75 million of the "other stuff" is an impairment charge of Pittodrie Stadium

 

https://d2cx26qpfwuhvu.cloudfront.net/aberdeen/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/24235055/AnnualAccounts_2017_web.pdf

 

 

From Note 10 of the annual report...

*****

The impairment of the carrying value of Pittodrie Stadium was assessed by the Directors as at 30 June 2017, based on a valuation report prepared by FG Burnett Limited. The value of Pittodrie Stadium has been affected by the downturn in the local economy over the last two years, accompanied by a consequent drop in property values throughout the North East of Scotland. The carrying value of Pittodrie Stadium has been assessed against the estimated realisable value of Pittodrie Stadium and surrounding car parks and ancillary land and an impairment charge of £2.75 million has been recognised in these accounts.

*****

 

Note 14 says Pittodrie used to be valued at £18m but now is valued at £15.25m.

 

So there's that.

 

 

 

But right at the back of the annual report in note 23 the club has £6.2 million of deferred income. This is money that hasn't come through the accounts yet! Most clubs have deferred liabilities. Note 24 says the Dons have recently exited all obligations to Bank of Scotland. Buried in the notes at the back of the annual report it is clear that the club is in rude financial health.

 

 

Paying off loans, writing down assets and deferring income? Hmmm. Dons are a coiled spring.

[dj_bollocks]

Clearly not new news... However...

 

This year by being in the Scottish Cup Final we had probably the longest season ever... We had a couple of extra weeks before QR2 but we in DMc's own words we were unprepared for the game.... The small matter of will he won't he be going to Sunderland didn't help either... Then slow transfer business, especially knowing what we know now, that we can't put in a decent cross...

 

Clearly after the events this week he gets another toss of the coin, but given there's a 99% of us having to start in QR1 next year we need to get things sorted well in advance, signings, training, holidays... I'd almost be throwing the kids on as soon as we've qualified for Europe if we don't make the Scottish Cup Final this year... And if we do, tough shit guys, you've probably only got about 2 weeks off... It should always be all about Europe. Thankfully, we don't look like having may players in the World Cup, Arnie excepted... But increasingly this football lark is a 365 day a year endurance marathon now...

[Stu255]

This year by being in the Scottish Cup Final we had probably the longest season ever... We had a couple of extra weeks before QR2 but we in DMc's own words we were unprepared for the game....

 

given there's a 99% of us having to start in QR1 next year we need to get things sorted well in advance, signings, training, holidays... I'd almost be throwing the kids on as soon as we've qualified for Europe if we don't make the Scottish Cup Final this year... And if we do, tough shit guys, you've probably only got about 2 weeks off... It should always be all about Europe.

 

Exactly.

 

Secure Europa Qualification and then immediately start preparing for Q1, 2, 3.

 

 

Everything else is a side show.

 

 

Sottish Cup finals are a nice day out, but do not move the club forward.

[RUL]

 

 

Exactly.

 

Secure Europa Qualification and then immediately start preparing for Q1, 2, 3.

 

 

Everything else is a side show.

 

 

Sottish Cup finals are a nice day out, but do not move the club forward.

 

 

Come on to fuck, surely winning a Scottish Cup would outdo any group stage qualification? What we in it for if not to win trophies and be successful?

[fine-n-dandy]

 

Come on to fuck, surely winning a Scottish Cup would outdo any group stage qualification? What we in it for if not to win trophies and be successful?

True but in terms of finance & what that can do for us the following season etc. then the Group stages are easily worth more.

Hell even the fkn LC is worth more than the Scottish cup financially now isn't it?

 

If I was given the choice of Scottish cup now or Group stages. I'd have a tough choice. Few years ago the Sco cup would have been the easiest choice ever but not so much now.

 

I WANT BOTH but tough tough to pick either over other now if truth be told.

 

Edit.. We're not Hibs. Wher up until a couple of years ago. Winning the Scottish cup was the most important thing in the world. More important than the league lol

[Stu255]

 

Come on to fuck, surely winning a Scottish Cup would outdo any group stage qualification? What we in it for if not to win trophies and be successful?

 

 

Aye winning the cup is flash, feels good and sells some shirts but doesn't lift any budget to grow the club to aim higher.

 

Whereas 3 seasons of nil-nil draws with Lokomotiv Sputnik and Lima La Lol and and suddenly the salary budget is double and you're away to watch the Dons play at San Siro and Johan Cruijff.

 

As I said earlier, it isn't the gate or the media, or the SFA, or any of that pish that gives Celtic their huge advantage it's the £32 million purse they get from UEFA.

 

Celtic get more from UEFA than the entire SFA budget given to every club in Scotland. Nobody can can't compete with Celtic from winning SFA competitions alone. There isna enough cash in all of SFA to buy the players to beat Celtic!!

 

 

It's a shite situation, but Europa is a way to break it.

[G31DON]

 

Losing to Limassol probably cost AFC £4 million. That's more than a high spec training facility would cost.

 

 

That's not true, there was still the play off round if we'd managed a draw in Cyprus. Losing cost us circa £750,000 for the next round

[dj_bollocks]

 

That's not true, there was still the play off round if we'd managed a draw in Cyprus. Losing cost us circa £750,000 for the next round

 

And therefore most likely Louis Moult...

[thomsod]

I think the playoff is the real difficulty. I feel we could and should have got past the teams that knocked us out the 3rd qualifier the last two seasons, but once we get to the playoff unless we're very lucky it's likely to be a team that's way above our level.

[dj_bollocks]

I think the playoff is the real difficulty. I feel we could and should have got past the teams that knocked us out the 3rd qualifier the last two seasons, but once we get to the playoff unless we're very lucky it's likely to be a team that's way above our level.

 

True, but that's where any manager will earn their corn. We had a great chance this year and progress (or should that be Progres) should have been made to that round, and arguably if we had got past the Cypriots we could have beaten the team they faced in the round... Anything less than that extra round next year would be a massive disappointment, but everyone should be behind actual Group Stages...

[Dunty]

If we'd had the squad from last couple of seasons, we probably would've got through, not that the players we have now aren't as good, they just haven't played together as much and had the experience built up as a team. We're probably three good players away from getting into the groups, will Milne and co bet on it?

Hayes, McGinn and Jack?