Garth Crooks

[vanderark14]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/6375921.stm

 

totally disagree with this sh*t. if you are good enough you will get the job its got f*ck all to do with colour.

[uni_don]

I think he has a point. I remember Luther Blisset going on about it not too long ago as well - sometimes not even being written back to.

 

Perhaps there aren't that many black managers that are good enough, but they haven't been given the chance to prove themselves. I think the fact that there's only 2 out of 92 league managers who are black says it all.

[vanderark14]

I think he has a point. I remember Luther Blisset going on about it not too long ago as well - sometimes not even being written back to.

 

Perhaps there aren't that many black managers that are good enough, but they haven't been given the chance to prove themselves. I think the fact that there's only 2 out of 92 league managers who are black says it all.

 

for a start who are "THEY"?

 

Crooks claims he looked into it but had no opportunities and you gave one more example, Blisset.

 

If some of the top black players in the uk got their coaching badges it would very hard for a club to just ignore an pplication from them.

[uni_don]

for a start who are "THEY"?

Exactly.

[Guest LondonScottish]

for a start who are "THEY"?

 

Crooks claims he looked into it but had no opportunities and you gave one more example, Blisset.

 

If some of the top black players in the uk got their coaching badges it would very hard for a club to just ignore an pplication from them.

 

 

So which black former players do we think would make it as managers if they took their qualifications?

 

Apart from Eric of course!!!

[vanderark14]

So which black former players do we think would make it as managers if they took their qualifications?

 

i have no idea but thats the point i cant think of any of them who go for it apart from ince and ferdinand.

 

Ince might turn out to be a good manager he has leadership skills and wasnt a bad player.

 

The fact is Crooks claims that there are not enough black managers because they are not givin a chance. there arent enough because hardly any of them seem to be going for coaching roles.

[minijc]

So which black former players do we think would make it as managers if they took their qualifications?

 

Apart from Eric of course!!!

If Pele(Brazilian) was slightly younger he would maybe make a decent go at being a manger

[Guest LondonScottish]

If Pele(Brazilian) was slightly younger he would maybe make a decent go at being a manger

 

 

He wasn't black, he was Sri Lankan by birth parents.

[boaby]

ruud gullitt, frank Rijkaard quite successful. Only Ruud in Eng though.

 

Carlton Palmer has had a bash not to mention the comedian known as John Barnes.

[uni_don]

He wasn't black, he was Sri Lankan by birth parents.

What? No he wasn't.

[Guest LondonScottish]

Carlton Palmer has had a bash not to mention the comedian known as John Barnes.

 

 

I meant "make it as decent managers".

[minijc]

Paul Ince seems to be doing a ok job with a bottom of the league side, if he keeps them up and gets in decent players they will get promoted next season for sure.

[boaby]

I meant "make it as decent managers".

 

I was giving example of 2 crap ones to indicate that people are willing to take chances on black managers.

 

Can't think of many high-profile black players from the Hughes, Pearce generation that have become, or could become, part of the "new wave."

 

Paul Parker, Ruel Fox, Ian Wright, Michael Thomas, Fashanu, Earle, Gayle. None have seemed interested in management.

 

maybe Dion Dublin would make a good manager, he talks like one in interviews anyway.

[Baggy89]

Other black managers given a chance in England but didn't make a good job of it include, Leroy Rosenior, Kris Kamamara, Jean Tigana (did alright) and Keith Alexander.

[The Hobbit]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/6375921.stm

 

totally disagree with this sh*t. if you are good enough you will get the job its got f*ck all to do with colour.

 

Unless you are party to the decision making process inside Football clubs I'd say that you have no basis for your statement.

[H.H]

What proportion of white managers compared to black managers apply?

 

I would hardly say it a discrimination or victimisation arguement. Lets say for instance Leon Mike became a proven manager and worked his way up the English system and JC retires/sacked/poached. Hardly think if Mike ticked the boxes and had the track record Milne and co would turn him down because of the colour of his skin.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(P.S. I picked Mike as an ex-player no other reason so dont panic!)

[The Hobbit]

What proportion of white managers compared to black managers apply?

 

I would hardly say it a discrimination or victimisation arguement. Lets say for instance Leon Mike became a proven manager and worked his way up the English system and JC retires/sacked/poached. Hardly think if Mike ticked the boxes and had the track record Milne and co would turn him down because of the colour of his skin.

(P.S. I picked Mike as an ex-player no other reason so dont panic!)

 

Wouldn't disagree at all but without knowing any actual facts, any claim that the best man will always get the job doesn't wash.

 

If it were, Peter Reid would never had a job after Sunderland.

 

I think football is full of cronyism, jobs for the boys, call it what you want. So, I don't think it's a great leap to imagine that racism goes on in the choice of manager.

 

Whilst it's a different matter big Ron showed racism happens in other parts of football, we know it happens on the terraces.

 

You know when you see these just finished ex players picked to be managers, Southgate, Keane, Adams, etc etc. There doesn't seem to be many non whites.

 

I dunno, Crooks generally speaks sh*te at the best of time, he's a sycophant of the worse kind but to say it definitely doesn't happen is mabye a bit naive.

[kramer]

Unless you are party to the decision making process inside Football clubs I'd say that you have no basis for your statement.

 

The same way Garth Crooks has no basis for his statements?

[The Hobbit]

The same way Garth Crooks has no basis for his statements?

 

Apart from the statistic of low number of black managers you mean.

 

I think he has a basis, whether there is any substance to it is highly debatable.

[vikaben]

The thing is there is a quote from les ferdinand saying you dont see many black faces on uefa coaching courses, well if there's less black folk doing coaching courses then surely it stands to reason there wont be as many black, qualified coaches which further means there's going to be less black managers and coaches in the game. His examples of unproven managers given a chance isn't really valid, Southgate was already at boro and their chairman obviously thought he had a decent coaching ability to offer him the job. Keane and Quinn used to be international teammates so again Quinn would've thought Keane had a chance of being a success as their manager and offered him the job. John Barnes was never given another managerial job because he was f*cking garbage at Celtic.

[BTR]

I reckon this is a total non-story.

 

Commendable though Crooks' actions are for raising the issue, there is no real evidence to back up his stance. He is effectively pi$$ing in the wind.

[The Hobbit]

I don't know, maybe there is a lack of black players doing the coaching badges because they know there is little chance of them getting a top job.

 

To highlight the issue you should look at the NFL. Since the NFL began in 1920, over 400 head coaches had been hired, but only six were African-Americans (five since 1989). In an organisation that has 70% of black (top) players this clearly shows an issue.

 

Source http://www.njsbf.org/njsbf/student/respect/fall04-1.cfm

 

Yeah different sport but surely this shows, at best, a reluctance to hire black people in the top jobs in sport. Ask yourself how black people are represented in the top jobs in all industries as well. Do we often see black CEO's on TV?

 

I think that saying black players don't put themselves forward for these jobs can't be the whole answer to such inbalance in statistics.

 

My feeling would be that a black man would have to perform better than a white man to reach the same level in Football management.

[Nespa]

There is no Chinese managers either?? whats that all about!!?

[kramer]

Apart from the statistic of low number of black managers you mean.

 

I think he has a basis, whether there is any substance to it is highly debatable.

 

QUOTE(The Hobbit @ Feb 22 2007, 06:31 PM)

Unless you are party to the decision making process inside Football clubs I'd say that you have no basis for your statement.

 

You can't apply a criteria for one person to have a valid opinion but then say Crooks has a basis when he is equally not party to the decision making process of football clubs.

 

Football is highly competitive so in my opinion clubs are far more interested in employing the person they think will bring the most success to their team rather than keeping the black man down.

[The Hobbit]

QUOTE(The Hobbit @ Feb 22 2007, 06:31 PM)

Unless you are party to the decision making process inside Football clubs I'd say that you have no basis for your statement.

 

You can't apply a criteria for one person to have a valid opinion but then say Crooks has a basis when he is equally not party to the decision making process of football clubs.

 

Football is highly competitive so in my opinion clubs are far more interested in employing the person they think will bring the most success to their team rather than keeping the black man down.

 

On your first point you are correct, I'd qualify my point by saying maybe Crooks is more informed than we are. Maybe not though when I think about his cringeworthy interviews with Mclaren and Eriksson.

 

I see what your second point is saying but it also suggests that the best candidate is almost exclusively white (more are hired after all).

 

It might be the case but if black men are underrepresented, which they appear to be, in a sport they excel in playing, then there must be an explanation.one way or another.

 

The whole thing probably does come down to a lack of qualified black managers but the fact that Crooks and Ferdinand felt the need to raise the point (especially in Crooks case, a man who has never really courted controversy in the past), means people will sit up and listen.

 

Anyway, he raised an interesting point either way.

[Roberto Larcos]

Ferdinand's not really helping the cause by comparing Keane and Ince as midfielders of "similar status" in their playing days and ending up with contrasting fortunes in management.

 

One regarded by many as the best midfielder in the world of his generation and a natural leader and the other an average midfielder in a good team who was "the guvner" in his own mind. You could guess which one would end up managing a club of higher status.

[cgs1706]

Toni Kombouare's doing a great job in France with Valenciennes...

[Jaws]

So basically what Crooks is saying that people within the game are racist. For christ sake give me a break. Thing is, there are more white players in the game in England so it's not really a surprise that more white players become managers.

[Guest El Padre]

So basically what Crooks is saying that people within the game are racist. For christ sake give me a break. Thing is, there are more white players in the game in England so it's not really a surprise that more white players become managers.

 

Whats the percentage of players that become managers anyway? And what's the percentage of those that are actually any good?

[chunk]

To be fair, I don't think anyone can say this guy hasn't had a fair crack of the whip

 

 

In reality, this is a very hard one to comment on as we don't know how many black people are applying for management/coaching jobs.