Ukraine

[RedArmyFakshun]

8 minutes ago, CCB III said:

That woman lived during the USSR. She's entitled to feel what she likes about it. 

Here's a more than decent book on this.  

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Secondhand-Time-Soviets-Svetlana-Alexievich/dp/0399588825

epub

https://rapidgator.net/file/f902d094244aab31f0a552746645aada

[maryhilldon]

10 minutes ago, CCB III said:

 Nazism inevitably ends up with dead Jews and black folks

Black folks? There were hardly any black folk in Europe in the 30s and 40s. I think you'll find the vast majority of deaths at the hands of the Nazis were white Europeans.

[CCB III]

4 minutes ago, maryhilldon said:

Black folks? There were hardly any black folk in Europe in the 30s and 40s. I think you'll find the vast majority of deaths at the hands of the Nazis were white Europeans.

Not disputing that? 
 

Nazism still exists. I'm talking purely it's ideology. Not just WWII. 

[Ke1t]

2 minutes ago, CCB III said:

* Showing support for communism isn't the same as showing support for Nazism. That's you with the horseshit logic. Communist ideology isn't discriminatory, Nazism inevitably ends up with dead Jews and black folks, et all. 
 

** Xenephobia to the yankees- my heart bleeds. You're really lapping up the Americano propaganda. Fair play to you. 
 

*** How many people were murdered under the Union Jack? I presume you have similar levels of anger/aggression towards people who parade that around? 
 

https://allthatsinteresting.com/how-many-people-did-stalin-kill
 

**** dunno where you got the 60,000,000 number from. Not that any number is OK but looks fine be closer to a third of that amount.

 

Many biased (yank) historians like to use the 60,000,000 number as they like to include the Soviet soldiers that died in WWII amongst other things, to beef up their own propaganda. 
 

***** Why are we comparing Stalin and Hitler? 
 

Different ideologies. Communists were the first to go under Hitler, and another group of people he blamed. 
 

That woman lived during the USSR. She's entitled to feel what she likes about it. 
 

 

 

****** Communism is an economic ideology. 
 

******* Nazism is a social ideology, steeped in eugenics and racism. 
 

******** Hope that helps for future comparisons. 
 

To add; 

Fuck Stalin. 

* Showing support for the political entity (Soviet Union) that genocided millions of your people is EXACTLY the same as showing support for the political entity (Third Reich) that genocided millions of your people. 

All the rest of your attempts at creating some arbitrary criteria to separate the two are horseshit.  But I am going to rip the rest of your post apart because I feel like it. 

** You get on other people's backs for being racist/xenophobic, but you're really no better. A hypocrite, you might say. 

*** Completely irrelevant to the subject at hand. You might as well ask how many people died in pit disasters. 

**** If you believe this is 'American propaganda' you may want to send a number of  letters to John Keegan, the English military historian, who cites 50,000,000. Or John Haywood, English military historian, who cites 50,000,000+,  or John M Roberts, an English military historian, who cites over 50,000,000+,  or The Times' Concise Atlas, an English publication, which cites 50,000,000+. or the Kinder Atlas, a German publication, which cites around 60,000,000.   Write those letters and tell those historians that they're all being taken in by some grand American scheme, and PLEASE... remember to include your evidence.

Otherwise they'll just think you're some fucking idiot. 

***** They're both authoritarian, militaristic, expansionist, 20th Century dictators who used their power to subject neighbouring states, and murdered millions of political, religious, and ideological opponents. Their biggest difference was the kind of moustache they chose to cultivate. 

****** Communism is a socio-political and economic system. And none of that is relevant to the subject at hand.  We're talking about the atrocities perpetrated by these states, not whether they thought cheese prices should be regulated by the state. 

******* Naziism is a socio-political, and to a lesser extent, economic system. And none of that is relevant to the subject at hand. We're talking about the atrocities perpetrated by these states, not whether they thought cheese prices should be regulated by the state. 

******** It doesn't, primarily because you seem enormously ignorant about the entire subject.  I'll continue to use people like Keegan, Strachan, Shirer, and Howard rather than 'shit I reckon might be true' as my sources for information. 

[maryhilldon]

4 minutes ago, CCB III said:

 

Nazism still exists. I'm talking purely it's ideology. Not just WWII. 

Aye, you're talking about ideology. I'm talking about reality. I'd think very few black folk have actually died at the hands of Nazis compared to other ethnic groups, not sure why you singled them out?

[Guest milne_afc]

Consi, if you have the temerity to reply to that, please use the multi quote function.

Thanks x

[Ramandu]

30 minutes ago, CCB III said:

Communism is an economic ideology. 

It's never been just about economics though. Marx said revolutionary terror was necessary, and Lenin carried it out.

I don't think there's an ideology which killed more people in the 20th century.

[CCB III]

Just now, Ramandu said:

It's never been just about economics though. Marx said revolutionary terror was necessary, and Lenin carried it out.

I don't think there's an ideology which killed more people in the 20th century.

The ideology didn't kill. 
 

The dictator did. There's nothing in communist ideology that states you have to let the proles starve. The opposite, in fact. 
 

 

[CCB III]

3 minutes ago, milne_afc said:

Consi, if you have the temerity to reply to that, please use the multi quote function.

Thanks x

You know me. 
 

Temerity is my middle name

[CCB III]

7 minutes ago, maryhilldon said:

Aye, you're talking about ideology. I'm talking about reality. I'd think very few black folk have actually died at the hands of Nazis compared to other ethnic groups, not sure why you singled them out?

I didn't single them out. 
 

They were mentioned alongside Jews. 

[Redforever86]

9 minutes ago, Ke1t said:

* Showing support for the political entity (Soviet Union) that genocided millions of your people is EXACTLY the same as showing support for the political entity (Third Reich) that genocided millions of your people. 

All the rest of your attempts at creating some arbitrary criteria to separate the two are horseshit.  But I am going to rip the rest of your post apart because I feel like it. 

** You get on other people's backs for being racist/xenophobic, but you're really no better. A hypocrite, you might say. 

*** Completely irrelevant to the subject at hand. You might as well ask how many people died in pit disasters. 

**** If you believe this is 'American propaganda' you may want to send a number of  letters to John Keegan, the English military historian, who cites 50,000,000. Or John Haywood, English military historian, who cites 50,000,000+,  or John M Roberts, an English military historian, who cites over 50,000,000+,  or The Times' Concise Atlas, an English publication, which cites 50,000,000+. or the Kinder Atlas, a German publication, which cites around 60,000,000.   Write those letters and tell those historians that they're all being taken in by some grand American scheme, and PLEASE... remember to include your evidence.

Otherwise they'll just think you're some fucking idiot. 

***** They're both authoritarian, militaristic, expansionist, 20th Century dictators who used their power to subject neighbouring states, and murdered millions of political, religious, and ideological opponents. Their biggest difference was the kind of moustache they chose to cultivate. 

****** Communism is a socio-political and economic system. And none of that is relevant to the subject at hand.  We're talking about the atrocities perpetrated by these states, not whether they thought cheese prices should be regulated by the state. 

******* Naziism is a socio-political, and to a lesser extent, economic system. And none of that is relevant to the subject at hand. We're talking about the atrocities perpetrated by these states, not whether they thought cheese prices should be regulated by the state. 

******** It doesn't, primarily because you seem enormously ignorant about the entire subject.  I'll continue to use people like Keegan, Strachan, Shirer, and Howard rather than 'shit I reckon might be true' as my sources for information. 

I would have went for “Keegan, Strachan, Shirer et al.” 
 

But otherwise 10/10

[Ramandu]

9 minutes ago, Ke1t said:

***** They're both authoritarian, militaristic, expansionist, 20th Century dictators who used their power to subject neighbouring states, and murdered millions of political, religious, and ideological opponents. Their biggest difference was the kind of moustache they chose to cultivate. 

Not having that. Hitler was a weed, whereas Uncle Joe looked like he could handle himself in a brawl.

[Guest Grays Babylon 1875]

Can we all just agree that all Huns and Russians are horrible bastards and call it a draw?

I thank you. 

[Quagmire]

2 minutes ago, Redforever86 said:

I would have went for “Keegan, Strachan, Shirer et al.” 
 

But otherwise 10/10

Beardsley just behind Keegan and Shirer for me. 

[maryhilldon]

2 minutes ago, CCB III said:

I didn't single them out. 
 

They were mentioned alongside Jews. 

The Nazis were more concerned with killing Slavs and gypsies than blacks. But you omitted them from your top 2 . Blacks were an irrelevance in Europe back then.

[RedArmyFakshun]

This one's an eye opener

 

[Ramandu]

9 minutes ago, CCB III said:

The ideology didn't kill. 
 

The dictator did. There's nothing in communist ideology that states you have to let the proles starve. The opposite, in fact. 

If it's been tried multiple times, and each time it has resulted in famine and "Revolutionary Terror", maybe there's a systematic flaw. It's not enough to say "Ah but that wasn't REAL communism, bad men spoiled it. REAL communism hasn't been tried yet."

If it's so easy for bad men to spoil it, maybe it doesn't work.

[CCB III]

15 minutes ago, Ke1t said:

* Showing support for the political entity (Soviet Union) that genocided millions of your people is EXACTLY the same as showing support for the political entity (Third Reich) that genocided millions of your people. 

All the rest of your attempts at creating some arbitrary criteria to separate the two are horseshit.  But I am going to rip the rest of your post apart because I feel like it. 

** You get on other people's backs for being racist/xenophobic, but you're really no better. A hypocrite, you might say. 

*** Completely irrelevant to the subject at hand. You might as well ask how many people died in pit disasters. 

**** If you believe this is 'American propaganda' you may want to send a number of  letters to John Keegan, the English military historian, who cites 50,000,000. Or John Haywood, English military historian, who cites 50,000,000+,  or John M Roberts, an English military historian, who cites over 50,000,000+,  or The Times' Concise Atlas, an English publication, which cites 50,000,000+. or the Kinder Atlas, a German publication, which cites around 60,000,000.   Write those letters and tell those historians that they're all being taken in by some grand American scheme, and PLEASE... remember to include your evidence.

Otherwise they'll just think you're some fucking idiot. 

***** They're both authoritarian, militaristic, expansionist, 20th Century dictators who used their power to subject neighbouring states, and murdered millions of political, religious, and ideological opponents. Their biggest difference was the kind of moustache they chose to cultivate. 

****** Communism is a socio-political and economic system. And none of that is relevant to the subject at hand.  We're talking about the atrocities perpetrated by these states, not whether they thought cheese prices should be regulated by the state. 

******* Naziism is a socio-political, and to a lesser extent, economic system. And none of that is relevant to the subject at hand. We're talking about the atrocities perpetrated by these states, not whether they thought cheese prices should be regulated by the state. 

******** It doesn't, primarily because you seem enormously ignorant about the entire subject.  I'll continue to use people like Keegan, Strachan, Shirer, and Howard rather than 'shit I reckon might be true' as my sources for information. 

Potentially the biggest bite I've ever got on this website. 
 

Takes some doing. 

[CCB III]

3 minutes ago, Ramandu said:

If it's been tried multiple times, and each time it has resulted in famine and "Revolutionary Terror", maybe there's a systematic flaw. It's not enough to say "Ah but that wasn't REAL communism, bad men spoiled it. REAL communism hasn't been tried yet."

If it's so easy for bad men to spoil it, maybe it doesn't work.

More Ameriganda. 
 

 

[Ke1t]

2 minutes ago, Ramandu said:

Not having that. Hitler was a weed, whereas Uncle Joe looked like he could handle himself in a brawl.

Hitler was wee, but he was wiry. He'd have flown at Stalin like a spidermonkey. 

Also, Stalin had smallpox that left him weakened, with a face like a deep dish pizza, and a fucked arm when he came off second best to a horse and carriage. 

I could see Stalin being like Uncle Monty, a big, predatory, gay rapist who preys on the weak. But Hitler, once he gets going, fucking madman. Like an Austrian Begby. 

It was fucking obvious that fucking cunt was going to fuck some cunt. 

 

[CCB III]

10 minutes ago, maryhilldon said:

The Nazis were more concerned with killing Slavs and gypsies than blacks. But you omitted them from your top 2 . Blacks were an irrelevance in Europe back then.

My overall point was about killing groups of people. 
 

Don't worry about it 

[Ke1t]

2 minutes ago, CCB III said:

Potentially the biggest bite I've ever got on this website. 
 

Takes some doing. 

Aye, that's what just happened. 

[CCB III]

Just now, Ke1t said:

Aye, that's what just happened. 

It absolutely is. 
 

I thought you could see that. 
 

Evidently not. 
 

1-0 Consi and we crack on 

[CCB III]

1 minute ago, Redforever86 said:

Yir lying tae yirsel. And that’s what makes it hurt. 

Absolutely not. 
 

My most elaborate plan yet. 
 

Ke1t just got got. 

[Redforever86]

1 minute ago, CCB III said:

It absolutely is. 
 

I thought you could see that. 
 

Evidently not. 
 

1-0 Consi and we crack on 

Yir lying tae yirsel. And that’s what makes it hurt. 

[Ramandu]

Naziism and Communism are two horrendous systems which go together. Opposites, but also the same. Like the two teams in Glasgow, and the world would be better without them.

Happily one of them is pretty much dead, and we can but hope for the other.

 

[Redforever86]

1 minute ago, Ramandu said:

Naziism and Communism are two horrendous…

Happily one of them is pretty much dead, and we can but hope for the other.

 

What one is dead exactly? 

[CCB III]

4 minutes ago, Ramandu said:

Naziism and Communism are two horrendous systems which go together. Opposites, but also the same. Like the two teams in Glasgow, and the world would be better without them.

Happily one of them is pretty much dead, and we can but hope for the other.

 

?

 

Fk me

[RedArmyFakshun]

10 minutes ago, Ramandu said:

"Ah but that wasn't REAL communism, bad men spoiled it. REAL communism hasn't been tried yet."

State socialism was supposed to create favourable conditions for the communist utopia to emerge

Marx himself understood that this utopia could only flourish in small co-operative communities

My reasoning is that the potential for humanity is nothing more than unrealised potential.  Its not a given, and most of us are incapable of it

[CCB III]

4 minutes ago, RedArmyFakshun said:

State socialism was supposed to create favourable conditions for the communist utopia to emerge

Marx himself understood that this utopia could only flourish in small co-operative communities

My reasoning is that the potential for humanity is nothing more than unrealised potential.  Its not a given, and most of us are incapable of it

Best post you've ever made