Assisted Dying

[DeltaRay1903]

... with dignity. 

I thought the SNP had finally got something right but then I read more and discovered it's a liberal MP that's putting the Bill forward.

Get this voted through and brought into legislation asap. This would be something we could be proud of at last.

** Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill is drafted by the Lib Dem MSP, Liam McArthur.

 

[Poodler]

You can get banned for wishing death on someone else

 

wonder if it’s a similar fate for wishing death upon yourself @mods 

[milne_afc]

If DeltaRay wishes to die with dignity, well I for one, have no problem with that at all.

Terminal illness is horrible and making people suffer is cruel. What’s the best terminal illness for life quality but passable for assisted dying?

[DeltaRay1903]

2 minutes ago, Poodler said:

You can get banned for wishing death on someone else

 

wonder if it’s a similar fate for wishing death upon yourself @mods 

It would certainly make for an interesting test case.

It is a poor show keeping folk alive when they don't know who they are anymore. They don't know who their nearest and dearest are anymore. They need nappy pads or catheterised, shit into a commode and someone has to wipe their arse.

Just let folk like that die for the love of mercy. 

[Poodler]

1 minute ago, DeltaRay1903 said:

It would certainly make for an interesting test case.

It is a poor show keeping folk alive when they don't know who they are anymore. They don't know who their nearest and dearest are anymore. They need nappy pads or catheterised, shit into a commode and someone has to wipe their arse.

Just let folk like that die for the love of mercy. 

The problem is, is it for the love of mercy or are they being knocked off prematurely for their assets.

(I’m all for it btw) 

[milne_afc]

Just now, Poodler said:

The problem is, is it for the love of mercy or are they being knocked off prematurely for their assets.

(I’m all for it btw) 

That’s the sting in the tail.

Oh, the assistance you require for dying is almost equal to the sum total of your assets. What a coincidence…

[DeltaRay1903]

Just now, Poodler said:

The problem is, is it for the love of mercy or are they being knocked off prematurely for their assets.

(I’m all for it btw) 

That's why there would have to be safeguarding. Things like you'd have to put it into writing long before you got Alzheimer's or whatever horrible end of life disease it might be. Bit like you can currently agree to a "Do not resuscitate" form as long as you're sound of mind. Surely the assisted dying is only one relatively small jump from that. 

[milne_afc]

2 minutes ago, DeltaRay1903 said:

Bit like you can currently agree to a "Do not resuscitate" form as long as you're sound of mind. Surely the assisted dying is only one relatively small jump from that. 

With the promise of one last blowout. I’d sign up tomorrow.

[manboobs109]

I'm against it. Give it a few years and we'll be disposing of inconvenient sick and old people the way we do now with inconvenient babies. 

I don't see what's so wrong in dying naturally with pain relief. 

[DeltaRay1903]

1 minute ago, manboobs109 said:

I'm against it. Give it a few years and we'll be disposing of inconvenient sick and old people the way we do now with inconvenient babies. 

I don't see what's so wrong in dying naturally with pain relief. 

Go through it with a partner, parent or child and you'll maybe change your mind. 

[milne_afc]

There’s nothing natural about living into your 70s

[DeltaRay1903]

20 minutes ago, milne_afc said:

With the promise of one last blowout. I’d sign up tomorrow.

Promise of one last blow job from the right bird and I'd sign up 😂

[Jigsaw666]

I'm all for it but I think some of the hand wringing on the subject is unnecessary also. Like Esther Rantzen wants the right to end her life - so just do it already, there's plenty of methods available for free.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

56 minutes ago, DeltaRay1903 said:

... with dignity. 

I thought the SNP had finally got something right but then I read more and discovered it's a liberal MP that's putting the Bill forward.

Get this voted through and brought into legislation asap. This would be something we could be proud of at last.

** Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill is drafted by the Lib Dem MSP, Liam McArthur.

 

Its a big mistake, as is clearly shown from places which have done it already, where supposed protections/guidance quickly evaporate (just as with abortion).

This only the latest horror story from canada:

https://gript.ie/canadian-court-rules-against-father-says-27-year-old-daughters-assisted-suicide-can-take-place/

The young woman in the case isn't terminally ill, or even ill at all, she is autistic.

In another case in canada, a woman with mobility issues went to the doctor to ask about getting some mobility aids and instead it was suggested that she might like to kill herself.

In parts of europe, children can be euthanised now.

Ultimately, if someone wants to top themselves, there is nothing stopping them.  We dont need legislation to undermine everyone's life.

Undoubtedly what will happen, is that elderly people will be pressured into this, portrayed as selfish if they want to carry on.  "Come on, you have had your life - a good innings - but you are using up too much resources now.  What's the point in going on?  Your on 30 tablets a day and cant walk to the end of the road" etc. or simply Doctors will start making the decision for them.

And the last people you would ever want to touch something like this are the mediocrities in holyrood who continually fail to produce practical legislation (offensive behaviour at football, named person bill) and who often fail to understand the effects of their own legislation (the surprise VAT bill after creating Police Scotland, the GRR bill which had to be blocked because it affected rUK).

A sign of how far our sick, valueless society has fallen that this is even considered.  Hopefully the UK govt will block it, although if labour get in they might bring it in too.

[milne_afc]

4 minutes ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

In another case in canada, a woman with mobility issues went to the doctor to ask about getting some mobility aids and instead it was suggested that she might like to kill herself.

😂😂

sorry but that amused me

[Poodler]

8 minutes ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

Its a big mistake, as is clearly shown from places which have done it already, where supposed protections/guidance quickly evaporate (just as with abortion).

This only the latest horror story from canada:

https://gript.ie/canadian-court-rules-against-father-says-27-year-old-daughters-assisted-suicide-can-take-place/

The young woman in the case isn't terminally ill, or even ill at all, she is autistic.

In another case in canada, a woman with mobility issues went to the doctor to ask about getting some mobility aids and instead it was suggested that she might like to kill herself.

In parts of europe, children can be euthanised now.

Ultimately, if someone wants to top themselves, there is nothing stopping them.  We dont need legislation to undermine everyone's life.

Undoubtedly what will happen, is that elderly people will be pressured into this, portrayed as selfish if they want to carry on.  "Come on, you have had your life - a good innings - but you are using up too much resources now.  What's the point in going on?  Your on 30 tablets a day and cant walk to the end of the road" etc. or simply Doctors will start making the decision for them.

And the last people you would ever want to touch something like this are the mediocrities in holyrood who continually fail to produce practical legislation (offensive behaviour at football, named person bill) and who often fail to understand the effects of their own legislation (the surprise VAT bill after creating Police Scotland, the GRR bill which had to be blocked because it affected rUK).

A sign of how far our sick, valueless society has fallen that this is even considered.  Hopefully the UK govt will block it, although if labour get in they might bring it in too.

They have VAD here in Oz and I’ve only ever heard positive things about it. Latter stages MS, Parkinson’s, MND etc? Get yourself in the bin, everyone’s a winner.

 

 

[Clydeside_Sheep]

1 hour ago, milne_afc said:

Terminal illness is horrible and making people suffer is cruel. 

With modern pain relief and medication no-one suffers the way its portrayed when justifying this.

The reason I am pro-NHS was hearing a story (on some documentary) about the pre-NHS days:  kids playing out in a back court could hear screaming from one of the flats - someone was dying of cancer and couldnt afford any pain relief.  Thats what you call suffering.

And you know, suffering (of any kind) is part of life and so to seek to avoid it is ultimately to be less human.  There can be value and meaning in suffering, but of course the notion is meaningless and even bizarre to a society which views human life as being disposable.

This kind of legislation is not motivated by mercy or love, but by callousness and cowardice. 

This isnt a dig at you, but I firmly believe many people support it because they dont want to have to care for / witness a loved one who might have a prolonged or difficult illness - they want to save themselves the hassle and the sadness, its fuck all to do with the ill person.

We modern generations dont know what suffering is compared to our grandparents time, and yet are so warped that killing is portrayed as something to be proud of.

As for me, whether I drop dead tomorrow, or live to 100, I will value and fight for every last second on this earth, come what may.

 

 

[Clydeside_Sheep]

9 minutes ago, milne_afc said:

😂😂

sorry but that amused me

😆 Indeed, but it is wrong. 

[milne_afc]

3 minutes ago, Poodler said:

They have VAD here in Oz and I’ve only ever heard positive things about it. Latter stages MS, Parkinson’s, MND etc? Get yourself in the bin, everyone’s a winner.

 

 

I didn’t realise you worked in advertising now.

[DeltaRay1903]

13 minutes ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

Its a big mistake, as is clearly shown from places which have done it already, where supposed protections/guidance quickly evaporate (just as with abortion).

This only the latest horror story from canada:

https://gript.ie/canadian-court-rules-against-father-says-27-year-old-daughters-assisted-suicide-can-take-place/

The young woman in the case isn't terminally ill, or even ill at all, she is autistic.

In another case in canada, a woman with mobility issues went to the doctor to ask about getting some mobility aids and instead it was suggested that she might like to kill herself.

In parts of europe, children can be euthanised now.

Ultimately, if someone wants to top themselves, there is nothing stopping them.  We dont need legislation to undermine everyone's life.

Undoubtedly what will happen, is that elderly people will be pressured into this, portrayed as selfish if they want to carry on.  "Come on, you have had your life - a good innings - but you are using up too much resources now.  What's the point in going on?  Your on 30 tablets a day and cant walk to the end of the road" etc. or simply Doctors will start making the decision for them.

And the last people you would ever want to touch something like this are the mediocrities in holyrood who continually fail to produce practical legislation (offensive behaviour at football, named person bill) and who often fail to understand the effects of their own legislation (the surprise VAT bill after creating Police Scotland, the GRR bill which had to be blocked because it affected rUK).

A sign of how far our sick, valueless society has fallen that this is even considered.  Hopefully the UK govt will block it, although if labour get in they might bring it in too.

Please don't play partisan politics with people's right to die with dignity. Have a heart. 

[Clydeside_Sheep]

5 minutes ago, Poodler said:

They have VAD here in Oz and I’ve only ever heard positive things about it. Latter stages MS, Parkinson’s, MND etc? Get yourself in the bin, everyone’s a winner.

 

 

What, are the people who were bumped off singing its praises? 😋

The australians are fucking crazy, soft in the head with all that sun.  Their easy going, laid back imagine is a con, in truth they make the nazis seem chilled with all their rules and regulations.

I have 3 kids and I had to change their shitty nappies and so, by fuck, they will change mine!

[milne_afc]

3 minutes ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

With modern pain relief and medication no-one suffers the way its portrayed when justifying this.

The reason I am pro-NHS was hearing a story (on some documentary) about the pre-NHS days:  kids playing out in a back court could hear screaming from one of the flats - someone was dying of cancer and couldnt afford any pain relief.  Thats what you call suffering.

And you know, suffering (of any kind) is part of life and so to seek to avoid it is ultimately to be less human.  There can be value and meaning in suffering, but of course the notion is meaningless and even bizarre to a society which views human life as being disposable.

This kind of legislation is not motivated by mercy or love, but by callousness and cowardice. 

This isnt a dig at you, but I firmly believe many people support it because they dont want to have to care for / witness a loved one who might have a prolonged or difficult illness - they want to save themselves the hassle and the sadness, its fuck all to do with the ill person.

We modern generations dont know what suffering is compared to our grandparents time, and yet are so warped that killing is portrayed as something to be proud of.

As for me, whether I drop dead tomorrow, or live to 100, I will value and fight for every last second on this earth, come what may.

 

 

I’ll choose to disagree pleasantly, but also, it’s not only patients who suffer.

[Poodler]

7 minutes ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

With modern pain relief and medication no-one suffers the way its portrayed when justifying this.

The reason I am pro-NHS was hearing a story (on some documentary) about the pre-NHS days:  kids playing out in a back court could hear screaming from one of the flats - someone was dying of cancer and couldnt afford any pain relief.  Thats what you call suffering.

And you know, suffering (of any kind) is part of life and so to seek to avoid it is ultimately to be less human.  There can be value and meaning in suffering, but of course the notion is meaningless and even bizarre to a society which views human life as being disposable.

This kind of legislation is not motivated by mercy or love, but by callousness and cowardice. 

This isnt a dig at you, but I firmly believe many people support it because they dont want to have to care for / witness a loved one who might have a prolonged or difficult illness - they want to save themselves the hassle and the sadness, its fuck all to do with the ill person.

We modern generations dont know what suffering is compared to our grandparents time, and yet are so warped that killing is portrayed as something to be proud of.

As for me, whether I drop dead tomorrow, or live to 100, I will value and fight for every last second on this earth, come what may.

 

 

There can be value and meaning in suffering? 
 

you seen someone choking to a slow agonising death on their own secretions as they don’t have the muscle tone to cough properly? 
 

Modern medicine has afforded us many luxuries that the good book doesn’t understand. 
 

where do you stand on transplants? 

[DeltaRay1903]

7 minutes ago, Poodler said:

There can be value and meaning in suffering? 
 

you seen someone choking to a slow agonising death on their own secretions as they don’t have the muscle tone to cough properly? 
 

Modern medicine has afforded us many luxuries that the good book doesn’t understand. 
 

where do you stand on transplants? 

Penny has dropped. Is he a religious nutter? 😂

[Clydeside_Sheep]

19 minutes ago, DeltaRay1903 said:

Please don't play partisan politics with people's right to die with dignity. Have a heart. 

I do have a heart, which if why I value life.  Its a basic value, not any kind of politics.

There is little dignity in sloping off to some clinic to take an injection: much better to face whatever life throws at us, like men.

As I said on here before: even if bed ridden and ill, life is still worth living: to enjoy a nice sunset, or a flash of thigh, or the smell of cooking bacon, or a win over the huns, or the smile of an old friend, or whatever it is.

Just as how in life, its often a choice and a fight to be happy, so too it can be a choice and a fight to see the value in life, whatever our circumstances.

If we lose that, its truly a defeat for humanity.

 

[Clydeside_Sheep]

21 minutes ago, milne_afc said:

I’ll choose to disagree pleasantly, but also, it’s not only patients who suffer.

Thats true, and what I was getting at before: but its only the patients who die.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

18 minutes ago, Poodler said:

There can be value and meaning in suffering? 
 

you seen someone choking to a slow agonising death on their own secretions as they don’t have the muscle tone to cough properly? 
 

Modern medicine has afforded us many luxuries that the good book doesn’t understand. 
 

where do you stand on transplants? 

Yes.  There is value and meaning in every aspect of life.

What you describe sounds horrible, but of course such is extremely rare.  Good laws and values are not based on extremes.

Organ donation can be done in an ethical way, but you highlight another risk in that an elderly or ill person might become to be seen as a bundle of spare parts, instead of a person.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

1 hour ago, manboobs109 said:

I'm against it. Give it a few years and we'll be disposing of inconvenient sick and old people the way we do now with inconvenient babies. 

I don't see what's so wrong in dying naturally with pain relief. 

Good on you 'boobs, you are a good man.

And so right, with what you describe here.

Nowt wrong with dying naturally (with pain relief if necessary) but - and I don't say this as a slight on anyone - some people are cowards and other people find it embarrassing or distasteful to have to deal with people who are ill or suffering.

[Poodler]

8 minutes ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

Yes.  There is value and meaning in every aspect of life.

What you describe sounds horrible, but of course such is extremely rare.  Good laws and values are not based on extremes.

Organ donation can be done in an ethical way, but you highlight another risk in that an elderly or ill person might become to be seen as a bundle of spare parts, instead of a person.

Organ donation isn’t usually broached until the person is brain dead so I’m not sure premature organ harvesting is a risk in the western world at least (I’ve seen some stuff about it occurring in kids in China but that could just be western/ Jewish propaganda).

 

I suppose if you believe in God and therefore believe that he chooses to give kids cancer and deformities for their own good then it would probably give you a bit of a skewed outlook on the real world (no disrespect intended )

why is some pain relief acceptable but a little bit more (to assist death) not acceptable? 

 

 

Edit, though I know now you’re trolling. Coming at it from a different angle. 

[maryhilldon]

42 minutes ago, Poodler said:

There can be value and meaning in suffering? 
 

You should know better than to try and reason with that bible bashing headcase.