Assisted Dying

[manboobs109]

9 hours ago, DeltaRay1903 said:

Go through it with a partner, parent or child and you'll maybe change your mind. 

I've been through it. 

[sigh]

8 hours ago, Poodler said:

Organ donation isn’t usually broached until the person is brain dead so I’m not sure premature organ harvesting is a risk in the western world at least (I’ve seen some stuff about it occurring in kids in China but that could just be western/ Jewish propaganda).

 

I suppose if you believe in God and therefore believe that he chooses to give kids cancer and deformities for their own good then it would probably give you a bit of a skewed outlook on the real world (no disrespect intended )

why is some pain relief acceptable but a little bit more (to assist death) not acceptable? 

 

 

Edit, though I know now you’re trolling. Coming at it from a different angle. 

You disappoint me - never let the mask slip - please revert to your usual persona - don’t be sensible 

[Oregon Red]

9 hours ago, manboobs109 said:

I'm against it. Give it a few years and we'll be disposing of inconvenient sick and old people the way we do now with inconvenient babies. 

I don't see what's so wrong in dying naturally with pain relief. 

It hasn't worked that way in Oregon. It's remained an option but relatively rarely used. It's been in effect since 1997. Proper and diligent regulation and policing is what prevents what you fear.

[Oregon Red]

8 hours ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

Yes.  There is value and meaning in every aspect of life.

 

Is there fuck,,no value to dying in absolute mindless pain. Pumped full of narcotics.

Fucking cruel bastard

[The Gee Man]

9 hours ago, manboobs109 said:

I'm against it. Give it a few years and we'll be disposing of inconvenient sick and old people the way we do now with inconvenient babies. 

I don't see what's so wrong in dying naturally with pain relief. 

How many times do we let pets die with just a very slight bit of pain relief? Very very rarely we say it’s the best thing don’t let them suffer! Just us humans who have to suffer if terminal 

[Edwin Starr]

My wife's a community nurse all the nurses from her community area agree with assisted dying.

But there's a criteria that needs to be followed before the final deed.

[For Fecks Sake]

9 hours ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

Its a big mistake, as is clearly shown from places which have done it already, where supposed protections/guidance quickly evaporate (just as with abortion).

This only the latest horror story from canada:

https://gript.ie/canadian-court-rules-against-father-says-27-year-old-daughters-assisted-suicide-can-take-place/

Knew yourself and Man Boobs would be against this given your previous stance on similar topics, but a discussion like this needs input from all perspectives.

There can always be extremes to point to, like the one above, however by pointing out the few ignores the majority where a person deciding to take their own life has been justified, listened to and met the requirements for doing so.

Having watched the agonising deaths of 2 of my grandparents I do not want my own children, or perhaps grandchildren, to go through what we had to nor do I want to experience what my grandparents had to endure in their final days.

[The Gee Man]

Just now, Edwin Starr said:

My wife's a community nurse all the nurses from her community area agree with assisted dying.

But there's a criteria that needs to be followed before the final deed.

Definitely needs to be one of the strongest regulated options from nhs to law

[Oregon Red]

5 minutes ago, The Gee Man said:

Definitely needs to be one of the strongest regulated options from nhs to law

In Oregon patient has to be within 6 months of death. Agreed with 2 other doctors out with the patient's provider. Patient also has to be of sound mind, as ascertained by a mental health professional. 

The patient is then prescribed the drugs .  It seems a great percentage do not go through with it. I think 64% do at last census.  But it is entirely in the hands of the patient

[The Gee Man]

Just now, Oregon Red said:

In Oregon patient has to be within 6 months of death. Agreed with 2 other doctors out with the patient's provider. Patient also has to be of sound mind, as ascertained by a mental health professional. 

The patient is then prescribed the drugs .  It seems a great percentage do not go through with it. I think 64% do at last census.  But it is entirely in the hands of the patient

As it should be. I agree people can be against it and want nothing to do with it, that’s their rights. Surely others rights should be respected 

[DeltaRay1903]

1 minute ago, The Gee Man said:

As it should be. I agree people can be against it and want nothing to do with it, that’s their rights. Surely others rights should be respected 

Like abortion for example. 

[Clydeside_Sheep]

9 hours ago, Poodler said:

why is some pain relief acceptable but a little bit more (to assist death) not acceptable? 

Because in one case the aim is to relieve someone's pain, in the second case the aim is to kill them.

Intention is central to the morality of any act.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

A lot of comments are focusing on personal experience / desires / fears and those of our direct family.

This isn't a criticism, but I think that's the wrong way to look at it.  While our own experience is informative, we shouldn't centre topics like this around ourselves, but rather consider the whole of society - in particular those who will be made most vulnerable by such a law.

Like (for example) the doddering auld wives in a care home who, while they aren't out running marathons or anything, are happy and content with coronation street and a weekly visit from their grandkids.  They might need a lot of medicine and help to wash themselves, but their heart overflows to see a picture of their grandchild in school uniform, or to be presented with a crayon scrawl from nursery.  And while they will not last to see these kids as adults, the children will forever remember their smile and embrace and the feel of their papery thin skin.

These are the people we should base our opinions on, not ourselves.

Few responses acknowledge the reality of what will happen either, with safeguards soon being ditched - as we all know and can see elsewhere.

The nihilistic, pro-death views which abound in secular society are based on dishonesty with the extremes portrayed as everyday cases.

They also have a fundamental emptiness at their heart - once you claim that any one part of life is meaningless or "not worth it", that can easily spread to thinking that of all life.  Not content with murdering the unborn, we are now gunning for the sick and that will soon spread to the elderly, the disabled and the mentally ill.  

The Nazis would be proud!

I mean, why not just blow the world up and save the individual hassle of having to kill ourselves and each other?

 

 

[cheesepipes]

1 hour ago, Edwin Starr said:

My wife's a community nurse all the nurses from her community area agree with assisted dying.

But there's a criteria that needs to be followed before the final deed.

Being a fan of Coldplay?

[The Gee Man]

10 minutes ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

A lot of comments are focusing on personal experience / desires / fears and those of our direct family.

This isn't a criticism, but I think that's the wrong way to look at it.  While our own experience is informative, we shouldn't centre topics like this around ourselves, but rather consider the whole of society - in particular those who will be made most vulnerable by such a law.

Like (for example) the doddering auld wives in a care home who, while they aren't out running marathons or anything, are happy and content with coronation street and a weekly visit from their grandkids.  They might need a lot of medicine and help to wash themselves, but their heart overflows to see a picture of their grandchild in school uniform, or to be presented with a crayon scrawl from nursery.  And while they will not last to see these kids as adults, the children will forever remember their smile and embrace and the feel of their papery thin skin.

These are the people we should base our opinions on, not ourselves.

Few responses acknowledge the reality of what will happen either, with safeguards soon being ditched - as we all know and can see elsewhere.

The nihilistic, pro-death views which abound in secular society are based on dishonesty with the extremes portrayed as everyday cases.

They also have a fundamental emptiness at their heart - once you claim that any one part of life is meaningless or "not worth it", that can easily spread to thinking that of all life.  Not content with murdering the unborn, we are now gunning for the sick and that will soon spread to the elderly, the disabled and the mentally ill.  

The Nazis would be proud!

I mean, why not just blow the world up and save the individual hassle of having to kill ourselves and each other?

 

 

This type of reasoning or “project fear” reminds me of a debate we once had as a Country 

[Edwin Starr]

1 minute ago, cheesepipes said:

Being a fan of Coldplay?

That wouldn't be any good for the likes of me 😁

[Edwin Starr]

11 minutes ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

A lot of comments are focusing on personal experience / desires / fears and those of our direct family.

This isn't a criticism, but I think that's the wrong way to look at it.  While our own experience is informative, we shouldn't centre topics like this around ourselves, but rather consider the whole of society - in particular those who will be made most vulnerable by such a law.

Like (for example) the doddering auld wives in a care home who, while they aren't out running marathons or anything, are happy and content with coronation street and a weekly visit from their grandkids.  They might need a lot of medicine and help to wash themselves, but their heart overflows to see a picture of their grandchild in school uniform, or to be presented with a crayon scrawl from nursery.  And while they will not last to see these kids as adults, the children will forever remember their smile and embrace and the feel of their papery thin skin.

These are the people we should base our opinions on, not ourselves.

Few responses acknowledge the reality of what will happen either, with safeguards soon being ditched - as we all know and can see elsewhere.

The nihilistic, pro-death views which abound in secular society are based on dishonesty with the extremes portrayed as everyday cases.

They also have a fundamental emptiness at their heart - once you claim that any one part of life is meaningless or "not worth it", that can easily spread to thinking that of all life.  Not content with murdering the unborn, we are now gunning for the sick and that will soon spread to the elderly, the disabled and the mentally ill.  

The Nazis would be proud!

I mean, why not just blow the world up and save the individual hassle of having to kill ourselves and each other?

 

 

Can you try and shorten your replies a bit CS as it's not good for my dyslexia.

 

[For Fecks Sake]

45 minutes ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

Like (for example) the doddering auld wives in a care home who, while they aren't out running marathons or anything, are happy and content with coronation street and a weekly visit from their grandkids.  They might need a lot of medicine and help to wash themselves, but their heart overflows to see a picture of their grandchild in school uniform, or to be presented with a crayon scrawl from nursery.  And while they will not last to see these kids as adults, the children will forever remember their smile and embrace and the feel of their papery thin skin.

These are the people we should base our opinions on, not ourselves.

Exactly, however people like this are not the ones who will be considering assisted suicide now is it?

It's poor Davie, wracked with cancer having enduded 20 courses of chemo and who is in constant pain who has to watch his family sit by his bedside each day as he gets his nappy changed by his wife. He's the type who I bet wishes this law could work for.

[Simply Red]

10 hours ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

With modern pain relief and medication no-one suffers the way its portrayed when justifying this.

And you know, suffering (of any kind) is part of life and so to seek to avoid it is ultimately to be less human.  

Youve clearly never been in a cancer hospice or dementia ward. 

People should have the right to choose, in advance, whether or not they can be given assistance to die when a condition deteriorates beyond an acceptable level. Which they would decide.

“And you know, suffering (of any kind) is part of life and so to seek to avoid it is ultimately to be less human.”

Youre a fucking idiot. (I was going to counter the bit ive quoted there with an argument but what youve said is so laughably ridiculous, i didnt bother.

 

[NEM]

12 hours ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

I do have a heart, which if why I value life.  Its a basic value, not any kind of politics.

There is little dignity in sloping off to some clinic to take an injection: much better to face whatever life throws at us, like men.

As I said on here before: even if bed ridden and ill, life is still worth living: to enjoy a nice sunset, or a flash of thigh, or the smell of cooking bacon, or a win over the huns, or the smile of an old friend, or whatever it is.

Just as how in life, its often a choice and a fight to be happy, so too it can be a choice and a fight to see the value in life, whatever our circumstances.

If we lose that, its truly a defeat for humanity.

 

Sitting in a chair or bed shitting and pishing yourself?  Nah fuck that, not for me.  One way ticket to Switzerland just before it gets to that stage.

[alscotoz]

It's a very grey area. To be absolute like the hat's self appointed conscience is fucking bullshit 

[manboobs109]

3 hours ago, For Fecks Sake said:

Exactly, however people like this are not the ones who will be considering assisted suicide now is it?

It's poor Davie, wracked with cancer having enduded 20 courses of chemo and who is in constant pain who has to watch his family sit by his bedside each day as he gets his nappy changed by his wife. He's the type who I bet wishes this law could work for.

What's actually stopping him taking enough painkillers to kill himself now?

[dave_min]

Love the stone roses

[The Gee Man]

6 minutes ago, manboobs109 said:

What's actually stopping him taking enough painkillers to kill himself now?

Because often their family are implicated and suffer from police investigation 

[For Fecks Sake]

6 minutes ago, manboobs109 said:

What's actually stopping him taking enough painkillers to kill himself now?

Getting access to the quantity required (I have no idea how many is required to end life) may be the #1 problem.

[maryhilldon]

3 hours ago, Simply Red said:

 

Youre a fucking idiot. 

He really is. Total weirdo.

[BrianFaePerth]

13 minutes ago, For Fecks Sake said:

Getting access to the quantity required (I have no idea how many is required to end life) may be the #1 problem.

Where there’s a will, there’s a way.

To moobs point, overdosing deliberately would be suicide. Going to Switzerland is assisted dying. Same thing, different name, but one is socially acceptable 

[manboobs109]

1 hour ago, The Gee Man said:

Because often their family are implicated and suffer from police investigation 

Is that true though? The police didn't notice a man had been shot in the head not that long ago I doubt they'd be all over it if a terminally ill man took a few too many painkillers. Most people in these circumstances have plenty why not just take a load. 

I suspect a lot of this is just people wanting things their own way without thinking of the consequences for others.

 

[manboobs109]

1 hour ago, BrianFaePerth said:

Where there’s a will, there’s a way.

To moobs point, overdosing deliberately would be suicide. Going to Switzerland is assisted dying. Same thing, different name, but one is socially acceptable 

Exactly. 

Another point is what if a doctor or nurse doesn't want to be an executioner? 

[milne_afc]

2 minutes ago, manboobs109 said:

Exactly. 

Another point is what if a doctor or nurse doesn't want to be an executioner? 

The suicide meds are self administered