The Rise And Fall of Scottish Football

[Johnnyred1]

After seeing a list of the best leagues in Europe, I was disappointed but not surprised to find the SPL 40th. Just behind the Belarus league. Money talks but ffs. The difficulty in improving those stats lies with only 1 rich club in a very small league, hoovering up 90% of the silverware. 

Surely this embarrasses everybody connected to our game but how do we fix it?

[ericblack4boss]

We have a game that is rigged specifically  to favour two  clubs. 

A hierarchy  infested with favouritism,  cronyism, greed , self interest, and has no interest  or desire to change. 

The only way to stop it is fans , and sponsors  to stop funding  it .

Over ten thousand  Aberdeen  fans so far this summer  have indicated  to  them that are content to continue  the status quo

[Durrant Dived]

The Belarusian league is likely above the spl because it's had 4 different winners since 2018, nothing to do with the actual quality of the league, Just less predictable who will win it.

So to answer your question; bin the ugly sisters and have a competitive league without them.

[Parklife]

16 minutes ago, Johnnyred1 said:

After seeing a list of the best leagues in Europe, I was disappointed but not surprised to find the SPL 40th. Just behind the Belarus league. Money talks but ffs. The difficulty in improving those stats lies with only 1 rich club in a very small league, hoovering up 90% of the silverware. 

Surely this embarrasses everybody connected to our game but how do we fix it?

Dunno how this list is generated but the Scottish Premiership is 11th in UEFA coefficient standings. 

It's also one of the best attended leagues in Europe on a per capita basis. 

 

[Johnnyred1]

I agree the game is rigged but this includes UEFA. How is it fair that if the big guns fail in Europe they get parachuted into Europa league. This ensures the money keeps rolling in. I blame the rest of the smaller clubs for bending over and accepting it. Disgusting cronyism.

[Andy_123]

Does this need its own thread? Its been discussed countless times on here over the years.

We have a game set up to suit 2 clubs, and a governing body that will go out of their way to keep it that way. Like trying to parachute a brand new hun replacement team straight into the top division after they died for example. Quite happy to rip up the rulebooks to suit them, but constantly taking the hardline stance with other clubs on lesser matters.

Everything and everyone else seems to be an inconvenient afterthought for them. They’d be quite happy to see Celtic v Rangers played every week if they didn’t need all the other teams to create a league.

Until that mentality changes everyone outside the bigot bubble of Glasgow will continue to think Scottish football is shite.

[WesthillWanderersFC]

35 minutes ago, Johnnyred1 said:

After seeing a list of the best leagues in Europe, I was disappointed but not surprised to find the SPL 40th. Just behind the Belarus league. Money talks but ffs. The difficulty in improving those stats lies with only 1 rich club in a very small league, hoovering up 90% of the silverware. 

Surely this embarrasses everybody connected to our game but how do we fix it?

40th best my arse.

The league isn’t good, but I’ll wager it’s better then about half of the leagues on the list you’re looking at.

 

[NEM]

2 minutes ago, Andy_123 said:

Does this need its own thread? Its been discussed countless times on here over the years.

We have a game set up to suit 2 clubs, and a governing body that will go out of their way to keep it that way. Like trying to parachute a brand new hun replacement team straight into the top division after they died for example. Quite happy to rip up the rulebooks to suit them, but constantly taking the hardline stance with other clubs on lesser matters.

Everything and everyone else seems to be an inconvenient afterthought for them. They’d be quite happy to see Celtic v Rangers played every week if they didn’t need all the other teams to create a league.

Until that mentality changes everyone outside the bigot bubble of Glasgow will continue to think Scottish football is shite.

The other clubs should grow a set and tell them to f*ck off and do exactly that.

[The Hulk]

24 minutes ago, Johnnyred1 said:

I agree the game is rigged but this includes UEFA. How is it fair that if the big guns fail in Europe they get parachuted into Europa league. This ensures the money keeps rolling in. I blame the rest of the smaller clubs for bending over and accepting it. Disgusting cronyism.

It's done to appease those clubs that favour a move to a European Super League while attempting to ensure other ambitious clubs don't get left behind.  This is how and why the Champions League came to be in 1992 and it has effectively evolved since then.

We have a 42-team "professional" league, with about 23-24 full-time teams and only about 5 or 6 biggish clubs (clubs with average attendance over 10k).

In my view to make it truly professional, and to raise the standards, we should have a league body for only the full-time teams (2x12 or whatever) with an 18-team conference league below with strict criteria for promotion and entry to the professional tier.

Let's call a spade a spade here; the current League Two teams don't necessarily have squads of players, or behind-the-scenes setups, that are any better than many Highland League teams. Slightly more professional maybe, but they're haemorhagging (losing) cash which mostly comes from sponsors. One League Two Chairman said to me a few years back that there are weeks where he has to personally pay the wages. They can't run themselves properly and that money should be redistributed to teams that can. The sponsor money in the game should be there to improve the game, not to prop up clubs that can't run themselves.

[thurso]

One of the things that fucked up our league was to many bang average foreigners arriving. 

[Red Clive 1995]

57 minutes ago, Johnnyred1 said:

After seeing a list of the best leagues in Europe, I was disappointed but not surprised to find the SPL 40th. Just behind the Belarus league. Money talks but ffs. The difficulty in improving those stats lies with only 1 rich club in a very small league, hoovering up 90% of the silverware. 

Surely this embarrasses everybody connected to our game but how do we fix it?

I used to enjoy going to the football, but it’ll be coming up to 40 years since we last won the league, the whole game is pointless. The way it’s going, it could be 100 years plus until someone different wins title. I’m voting with me feet, just not interested anymore. 
 

Even a change in league structure would make it interesting. 18 team top league, only play the old firm twice. It would make a huge difference. 
 

And don’t even start about the meaningless games, every game is basically meaningless in the spfl if you aren’t in a relegation dog fight or the old firm.
 

How anyone can get excited about coming 3rd every season and getting papped out of Europe by Xmas as a success, well you get the league you deserve. 
 

Vote for change, vote for Clive.

 

[Red Clive 1995]

7 minutes ago, The Hulk said:

It's done to appease those clubs that favour a move to a European Super League while attempting to ensure other ambitious clubs don't get left behind.  This is how and why the Champions League came to be in 1992 and it has effectively evolved since then.

We have a 42-team "professional" league, with about 23-24 full-time teams and only about 5 or 6 biggish clubs (clubs with average attendance over 10k).

In my view to make it truly professional, and to raise the standards, we should have a league body for only the full-time teams (2x12 or whatever) with an 18-team conference league below with strict criteria for promotion and entry to the professional tier.

Let's call a spade a spade here; the current League Two teams don't necessarily have squads of players, or behind-the-scenes setups, that are any better than many Highland League teams. Slightly more professional maybe, but they're haemorhagging (losing) cash which mostly comes from sponsors. One League Two Chairman said to me a few years back that there are weeks where he has to personally pay the wages. They can't run themselves properly and that money should be redistributed to teams that can. The sponsor money in the game should be there to improve the game, not to prop up clubs that can't run themselves.

Still won’t make a competitive league if you’ve to play 2 teams who’s 10x the money 8 times a season. At best you might take 8 points off them. Completely pointless league. 

[Big Hat Logan]

 

51 minutes ago, Johnnyred1 said:

After seeing a list of the best leagues in Europe, I was disappointed but not surprised to find the SPL 40th. Just behind the Belarus league. Money talks but ffs. The difficulty in improving those stats lies with only 1 rich club in a very small league, hoovering up 90% of the silverware. 

Surely this embarrasses everybody connected to our game but how do we fix it?

Imagine being embarrassed over a few games of football. Surely people have got more going on in their lives?

[sooth_stander]

53 minutes ago, Johnnyred1 said:

After seeing a list of the best leagues in Europe, I was disappointed but not surprised to find the SPL 40th. Just behind the Belarus league. Money talks but ffs. The difficulty in improving those stats lies with only 1 rich club in a very small league, hoovering up 90% of the silverware. 

Surely this embarrasses everybody connected to our game but how do we fix it?

What criteria was used to judge “best”?

[dave_min]

Minsk is a cracking night out. Would recommend.

[The Hulk]

1 minute ago, Red Clive 1995 said:

Still won’t make a competitive league if you’ve to play 2 teams who’s 10x the money 8 times a season. At best you might take 8 points off them. Completely pointless league. 

I agree. Like you I'd prefer that teams only play each other twice a season. I don't see how you factor 24 teams into that setup unless you want 46 league games a season.

But the point stands that dividing the money around 24 teams rather than 42; 18 of whom fritter it away just to keep existing - would surely see an overall raise in standard. There's alot of good clubs and players in the Scottish Championship for whom an extra £1m a year would be transformative. It would raise and add value to the whole game.

[Johnnyred1]

2 minutes ago, sooth_stander said:

What criteria was used to judge “best”?

Quality of product.

[Granite95]

13 minutes ago, Johnnyred1 said:

Quality of product.

But many would say the English Premier League is the "best league in the world" and quite a lot of their games have been utter shite

 

[Broken_Glass]

I suspect that other clubs should have got behind Dundee and the ridiculous fine they received to appease Sevco would have been a small stepping stone. 

We just had one of the wettest winters since records began and it's acceptable to fine Dundee because it involved Sevco. A truly ludicrous situation when the decisions are based on player safety. Only when the other teams stand together do we stand any chance of change within the game. Sadly too man boards are only interested in money and self preservation. 

Summer football, play each other twice, home and away and get rid of that shit split. 

(I appreciate I may have gone off at a tangent but it loosely fits into the criteria!) 

[Redtillimdead]

The other 10 SPL clubs should just resign from the league like they did in the past to force change. Let those two horrible clubs play each other 38 times. This playing each other 4 times a season is nonsense and only geared towards the TV deal which is a pittance anyway. 

[Saturday's Kid]

A fifth division could be introduced. One of two teams and four of ten. A play off to take place between the winners of the second tier and the top division runner up.

The play off to be conditional on the second tier team meeting certain criteria.

EG a ground capacity in excess of 45,000, a minimum of 30,000 season ticket holders.

[Johnnyred1]

26 minutes ago, Granite95 said:

But many would say the English Premier League is the "best league in the world" and quite a lot of their games have been utter shite

 

That's why football is so subjective, I suppose.

[The Gee Man]

55 minutes ago, thurso said:

One of the things that fucked up our league was to many bang average foreigners arriving. 

Was that Calderwoods fault! Bus

[slippers]

Maybe we could do what A league and Belgium do. Even if you have won the league by 30 points you still only go into playoffs for the title. It's unlikely we beat either of them but would create a bit of excitement. I think it's pretty ridiculous if you dont win the league after leading by a heap of points but just trying to think of ways to make it more interesting. 

 

Im still 1 of a few that think teams like us, hearts and Hibs that could do better. I know they have a way bigger budget but it's reason why im so behind what the club are trying to do. I know its not worked out yet but I finally feels like we have a decent manager. We just need to get a little better/lucky in the transfer window and think we can really push on. We have to continue developing the best youth in country and sell a player most summers. That and European groups can almost double our current budget. Easier said than done but there is a number of clubs in Europe punching well above their weight. I hope we 1 day can do the same. Teams like Midtjyland and Union Saint-Gilloise are the blueprint. I guess you could argue that they dont have teams the size of Celtic and Rangers in their leagues.

[Red Clive 1995]

34 minutes ago, slippers said:

Maybe we could do what A league and Belgium do. Even if you have won the league by 30 points you still only go into playoffs for the title. It's unlikely we beat either of them but would create a bit of excitement. I think it's pretty ridiculous if you dont win the league after leading by a heap of points but just trying to think of ways to make it more interesting. 

 

Im still 1 of a few that think teams like us, hearts and Hibs that could do better. I know they have a way bigger budget but it's reason why im so behind what the club are trying to do. I know its not worked out yet but I finally feels like we have a decent manager. We just need to get a little better/lucky in the transfer window and think we can really push on. We have to continue developing the best youth in country and sell a player most summers. That and European groups can almost double our current budget. Easier said than done but there is a number of clubs in Europe punching well above their weight. I hope we 1 day can do the same. Teams like Midtjyland and Union Saint-Gilloise are the blueprint. I guess you could argue that they dont have teams the size of Celtic and Rangers in their leagues.

What is tangible success then? What Mcinnes produced, 3rd and Europe? It’s not even exciting. If Scotlands 3rd (arguably) biggest can only hope for that, it’s just such a pointless league. 
 

We must be the most boring team to support in Britain, won’t realistically get relegated, rarely win anything and our best hope is 3rd. 
 

It would be more exciting supporting Falkirk or the likes. 

 

Even if we improve, it still won’t stop 100 years of dominance of the old firm, unless we change the structure. 

[redone]

8 minutes ago, Red Clive 1995 said:

What is tangible success then? What Mcinnes produced, 3rd and Europe? It’s not even exciting. If Scotlands 3rd (arguably) biggest can only hope for that, it’s just such a pointless league. 
 

We must be the most boring team to support in Britain, won’t realistically get relegated , rarely win anything and our best hope is 3rd. 
 

It would be more exciting supporting Falkirk or the likes. 

 

Even if we improve, it still won’t stop 100 years of dominance of the old firm, unless we change the structure. 

Short memory ?

[JumboJET]

The fall of Scottish fitba is directly to the rise of English footy. We are now at the point where the likes of Notts County, Swindon, and Accrington Stanley are clearly superior to the likes of Hibernian, Sharts, and Dungpee Ushited. 

[Byrne Baby Byrne]

3 hours ago, Johnnyred1 said:

After seeing a list of the best leagues in Europe, I was disappointed but not surprised to find the SPL 40th. Just behind the Belarus league. Money talks but ffs. The difficulty in improving those stats lies with only 1 rich club in a very small league, hoovering up 90% of the silverware. 

Surely this embarrasses everybody connected to our game but how do we fix it?

There’s absolutely no way of fixing it. 
 

the authorities love it the way it is. Honestly. Spend a few days down that neck of the woods and they are still absolutely gripped by rangers v Celtic. It is everything to them. Their entire existence. 
 

outsiders might be interested to see a more competitive league but not the spfl / SFA / of most of the Scottish population. They just want rangers v Celtic 7 days a week. 
 

when other teams were getting plenty tv games, Aberdeen were doing well in the league and other sides were winning trophies - all we were hearing was how much we needed a strong rangers back in the league. 
 

tragic 

[WesthillWanderersFC]

1 minute ago, Byrne Baby Byrne said:

There’s absolutely no way of fixing it. 
 

the authorities love it the way it is. Honestly. Spend a few days down that neck of the woods and they are still absolutely gripped by rangers v Celtic. It is everything to them. Their entire existence. 
 

outsiders might be interested to see a more competitive league but not the spfl / SFA / of most of the Scottish population. They just want rangers v Celtic 7 days a week. 
 

when other teams were getting plenty tv games, Aberdeen were doing well in the league and other sides were winning trophies - all we were hearing was how much we needed a strong Rangers back in the league. 
 

tragic 

Aye, usually from that hun rimmer Stewart Milne. 

Considine also said it.

 

[Red Clive 1995]

35 minutes ago, redone said:

Short memory ?

Pele Paterson the last time we thought we actually might go down, surely.