Butcher Rants

[Guest]

What a tool.

 

"If it aint broke don't fix it"

 

"The split is good"

 

"the teams that go down will face Armageddon"

 

Shut up ya fool!!

[NorthernLights24]

What a tool.

 

"If it aint broke don't fix it"

 

"The split is good"

 

"the teams that go down will face Armageddon"

 

Shut up ya fool!!

 

It was getting a bit embarrassing especially all that stuff about the SPL being anti-Inverness.

[reddonslewis]

Cant believe his rant. Going on about how the spl want them out - they werent good enough two seasons ago to stay up so why does he feel the right to moan? tough titties Butcher about travelling down to glasgow on a tues night - he says its icy - gtf u prick if u dont like it then f**k off

[K-9]

Should maybe rant at his own chairman who gave in to this proposal!!

[reddonslewis]

Should maybe rant at his own chairman who gave in to this proposal!!

 

Agreed. No doubt a bulling case will arise from ICT against the other 11 chairmans and the SPL.

[Guest]

Very unusual rant, as he's normally quite a calm and reasonably chap.

 

But his arguments were very flawed. The current setup is utter bobbins. Everyone can see that. No one likes the split. He suggested it added intrigue.... well how come no other league in the World employs such bizarre circumstances that can see a team who finish 7th end up with more points than the one that finishes 6th?

 

Boils down to ICT (or him) being sh*t scared that they'll be one of the 3 to go down. But isn't that what they are discussing.... how the parachute payments will compensate teams who go down?

 

I'm not particularly a fan of the 10 team SPL idea, but we have to start generating money again, as most SPL clubs are dying on their feet. Smaller league means larger split. We'd probably see a better TV deal come along too.

 

Don't think anyone has all the answers, but his ridiculous rant just painted him as a mad, bitter and twisted fool. Getting beat by his hun bum chums obviously means less to him than the SPL setup!!

[Milners]

I would like to disagree with everyone on here. His rant was quality and right about going back for a 10. Having a go at Old firm for bullying his chairman into this decision and that its terrible for scottish football - he's not wrong is he?

 

Also with the fixture of travelling this was a very late rearranged game because St Mirren had a reply in the scottish cup - i think if aberdeen had to travel very late we would be pissed off at how short notice it was

[Milners]

Was interesting about his comment that Inverness lost 1.5 million last season but was trying to work out if it was the club or other businesses due to it. You have to remember that was with the tv money as the club goes down gets a payment. I think Inverness are in a good position to judge being relegated recently.

[Foster14]

That's nothing more than a statistical anomaly to me, the argument of an uneven home/away split and equivalent loss of revenue would be a more relevant argument.

 

Further to your point about the anomaly, no-one seems to have a problem with a team in England getting promoted over a team finishing with much higher points than them, as has happened on many an occasion...

[Milners]

Butcher rant

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/9366087.stm

[Milners]

question...

 

when does this kick in?

 

when it does, are we having 2 relegations and no promotions then the year before?

 

Think the changes are in 2013 season and that season 3 will go down and 1 goes up - if this is agreed by 10 clubs in SPL

[The Oxford Don]

I would like to disagree with everyone on here. His rant was quality and right about going back for a 10. Having a go at Old firm for bullying his chairman into this decision and that its terrible for scottish football - he's not wrong is he?

 

Also with the fixture of travelling this was a very late rearranged game because St Mirren had a reply in the scottish cup - i think if aberdeen had to travel very late we would be pissed off at how short notice it was

 

Agree 100%. A ten-team league is an absolute hoor of a proposal, we'd be better off sticking with the current set-up but reforming the bits which need to be reformed: ditch the split, start the season earlier and introduce some sort of winter break.

[Foster14]

you cant really blame your inverness caleys and the likes no voting for it then...as theyll be in danger of slipping out the league!

 

On one hand, yes that is correct. Currently though, the league set up has a few teams nervously looking over their shoulders at relegation as the result of this could be the end of their club. The new plans seem to be partly focussed on minimising the risk to a club of being relegated and therefore some clubs will vote for this as although it may increase their chances of relegation, it will reduce their chance of going out of business should they get relegated.

 

This is why you may get some turkeys appearing to vote for Christmas.

[ollie1903]

My tuppence, and to be totally honest, I have no idea as to what's the best way forward. My big concern is that in a set up of ten, you will have 8/10th's of the league starting the season with the sole purpose of staying up. I know there are no guarantees that any game will be good but with this it will attract negativity and stifle the opportunitys of good young players and will go back to the dark days of expensive foreign no marks.

I may be wrong

[ScottishJohn]

If that was rangers away to caley would it have been tonight? Probably not.

[donaldoni]

Just listened to the interview.

 

While he's probably a bit paranoid as a result of the ref and them having to travel, it's actually pretty refreshing to hear someone with his past stick up for his current club so passionately and verbally sticking it to the Old Firm.

 

Completely agree with him re reconstruction too, people are far too quick to call everything sh*te but seem to offer little in the way of workable solutions - if you don't like the split then don't just say you don't like it, how would you work it instead?

 

Start the season earlier, you don't even have to have a winter break because by starting earlier it'll lessen the need to pile the fixture list in the second half of the season.

 

Start with the little things and you'll soon see things getting better.

 

Agree on all of this.

 

I agree totally with Butchers sentiments 100% even if some of his points were a little flawed. He was speaking passionately for his club and not bowing to media pressure to play nice with the OF.

 

Also completely agree on the point that its about identifying and changing individual things to improve everythgin overall. This does not need to be BIG BANG at all, they can as Butcher says change the bits we all agree on now and take the rest forward for further discussion.

 

Fixing the scottish game will take whole raft of changes, many small ones and some larger (like changing how the SFA operate and amalgating the SFL and SPL) to bring about an overall improvement. People in football don't seem to get this and you can see the same thing in England too where they can't get to grips with how to improve their national team.

 

Does anyone know if they have actually spoken to the main TV parties about what they would be interested in supporting?

[Guest]

I must admit to having previously been in the camp voting for a bigger league of say, 16. But the financial implications of this may be the key decision maker. You increase the teams, you decrease the revenue to everyone. Playing the old firm twice at home as opposed to four times, would be a big loss for most. And TV revenues would be 1/16th as opposed to 1/10th. It's a major point to factor in.

 

Ultimately, I think the important thing is how we improve the quality of the game in Scotland. Are the Chairman of the current SPL setup, purely voting out of self-preservation and forgetting about the bigger picture? Would having a larger league mean that managers have more of a tendancy to play younger kids? Or is the matter not one of imposing a rule whereby clubs have to play a minimum amount of home grown kids in their team each game?

 

Importantly for me, I really don't subscribe to this notion that a smaller league would mean teams playing for draws and decreasing the show on display. If anything, if you have more of a chance of being relegated, you really should be playing your bollox off and going for the 3 points. You see this is the EPL with clubs going for broke to get the 3 points. It's anything but boring stuff. Playing for the draw or playing not to lose, only gains you 1 point minimum. Going for the jugular, can often see 3 points gained.

 

Let's also not forget that less 'diddy teams' to play against, should mean the OF having more competition, thus a tightening up of the league and more of a chance winning it or at very least, splitting the OF.

 

The split is crap... anyone that thinks it is fair is way off track. Those who are a mere point off of 6th, can still equally qualify for Europe with 6 games to go. That is anti-competitive in my opinion. The bottom 2 or 3 have some interest (if you can call it that) in retaining top flight football. But does that make for a good spectacle or just messy, winner takes all, kick and rush football? I much prefer the idea of a play off for relegation and promotion.

 

Butcher is a prize knob.... end of.

[tommo1903]

My butcher once had a rant about the DIY shop next door. He said she was a bloody cow.

 

Which was funny because thats what he sold.

 

 

In all seriousness, good on Butcher. It was a Romanov-type rant in the sense that we should be agreeing with him, but his allegiances make him a detestable moron.

[Mikeyboy1903]

The bottom line is that every club tows the line .... and don't unite.

[Walt Flanagan's Dog]

I agree with Butcher. I never thought I'd ever hear myself saying that. Not particularly about the 'SPL doesn't want Caley in the league' stuff really, but I won't criticise him for that as it looks like he is trying to make the 'siege mentality' Fergie was famous for in his time with us.

 

His points about SPL reconstruction are dead on though. The SPL moved from 10 teams to 12 teams in the early 00's because fans were bored shitless with the league. Everything was more or less tied up by easter making the last part of the season full of dead rubbers. Dropping back to 10 teams is a massive step backwards, and in another 5 years the SPL will be meeting again to discuss expansion.

[boboisared]

I'd rather play the OF twice rather than four times anyway.

[K-9]

I agree with Butcher. I never thought I'd ever hear myself saying that. Not particularly about the 'SPL doesn't want Caley in the league' stuff really, but I won't criticise him for that as it looks like he is trying to make the 'siege mentality' Fergie was famous for in his time with us.

 

His points about SPL reconstruction are dead on though. The SPL moved from 10 teams to 12 teams in the early 00's because fans were bored shitless with the league. Everything was more or less tied up by easter making the last part of the season full of dead rubbers. Dropping back to 10 teams is a massive step backwards, and in another 5 years the SPL will be meeting again to discuss expansion.

Increasing the number of teams will surely just increase the amount of "dead rubbers"?

[weapon]

Agree 100%. A ten-team league is an absolute hoor of a proposal, we'd be better off sticking with the current set-up but reforming the bits which need to be reformed: ditch the split, start the season earlier and introduce some sort of winter break.

 

 

Agree!! I'd rather make small changes to the current set-up than changing to 10 team league. More focus need to be made on facilities and the youth players, things at grass roots that truly will make a difference, ok any change in that respect will take years but i'd much rather focus on issues like that than sweeping changes at the top. No matter how many teams are in the league, facilities are still gonna be pish and will there be any improvement with youngeters....prob not.

[King Street Loon]

Butcher does make some valid points.

 

Like others have also said, 8 of the 10 will start the season in fear of the drop.

It shouldn't be that way, but that's the reality.

 

I'd like to shake the points system up to encourage team to go for it.

3 for a win.

2 for a score draw.

1 for a no score draw.

And 0 for a loss obviously.

[K-9]

Like others have also said, 8 of the 10 will start the season in fear of the drop.

It shouldn't be that way, but that's the reality.

As opposed to now when we have 10 out of the 12?

[vanderark14]

After debating this for so long I think we should keep it as it stands but start the season earlier and have a winter break.

 

an extension to 16 would mean less games against the OF which is fine by me but its less for the boards coffers which is what the decisions are based on unfortunately.

 

Either way the OF will continue to dominate the league whether its 10, 12, 14, 16 or 18.

[Jazzer_Bett]

Pleased someone is not scared to speak the thruth, well done Terry.

 

The huns "phased" him out (despite being a major influence in kick startin gtheir club and winning trophies) because his wife is a catholic and he became a patron of Nil By Mouth, amongst other henious crimes.

[Guest]

Butcher does make some valid points.

 

Like others have also said, 8 of the 10 will start the season in fear of the drop. It shouldn't be that way, but that's the reality.

 

I'd like to shake the points system up to encourage team to go for it.

3 for a win.

2 for a score draw.

1 for a no score draw.

And 0 for a loss obviously.

 

Utter nonsense. So Aberdeen, Hearts, Utd, Hibs, Motherwell..... all these teams will have a priority of staying up than of trying to push for top 3, Europe, cups wins etc?

 

If this league of 10 were to go ahead next season, I could see (current teams taken into account), St Midden, Hamilton, St Johnston and Caley being top contenders to take the drop. Do any of those teams have a large fan base? Do they bring loads of fans to away grounds? Sure, they, along with maybe Killie may think staving off relegation would be top priority, but if anyone really believes the 'historical' top 4 non-OF teams of Aberdeen, Utd, Hearts and Hibs, would start the season looking over their shoulder, then they are plain daft and more imporantly, blinkered.

 

Tell me, what does a league of 16 give us that a league of 10 doesn't? How does it improve Scottish football?

[King Street Loon]

Utter nonsense. So Aberdeen, Hearts, Utd, Hibs, Motherwell..... all these teams will have a priority of staying up than of trying to push for top 3, Europe, cups wins etc?

 

If this league of 10 were to go ahead next season, I could see (current teams taken into account), St Midden, Hamilton, St Johnston and Caley being top contenders to take the drop. Do any of those teams have a large fan base? Do they bring loads of fans to away grounds? Sure, they, along with maybe Killie may think staving off relegation would be top priority, but if anyone really believes the 'historical' top 4 non-OF teams of Aberdeen, Utd, Hearts and Hibs, would start the season looking over their shoulder, then they are plain daft and more imporantly, blinkered.

 

Tell me, what does a league of 16 give us that a league of 10 doesn't? How does it improve Scottish football?

The aim is always to push for what you've stated.

But as we've found out this season, Hibs also. Utd a few season ago and Motherwell will too under McCall survival is what we ALWAYS have to look over our shoulder at.

 

I don't go into every season thinking of survival soley, but I can't dress it up and neither will the clubs outside the OF. Survival at the top table is what it's about.

Sad but true.

[spamspamspam]

I must admit to having previously been in the camp voting for a bigger league of say, 16. But the financial implications of this may be the key decision maker. You increase the teams, you decrease the revenue to everyone. Playing the old firm twice at home as opposed to four times, would be a big loss for most. And TV revenues would be 1/16th as opposed to 1/10th. It's a major point to factor in.

 

There are lots of ways to get the TV money and gate money back though tiny.

 

Play offs for euro spot and a relegation spot for starters gives 4-8 teams 2 or 3 more games.

 

I'd have it so

 

1st CL spot

2nd Euro spot

3rd-6th play offs for euro spot

15th and 16th straight down

11th-14th play offs for final relegation

 

Euro spot for SC

Euro spot for LC

 

A reconstruction of the League cup back to a mini league format could give 3-6 more games for every club depending on if its done home and away or just 3 games. (leagues of 4 obviously) Those leagues could be made up of 1 SPL team, 1 SPL 2 team and 2 regional teams so more money is brought into the lower leagues as well. Add in a Euro place for the winner and it makes it a worthwhile comp again. It used to be really popular when it was a league format before. It was changed in the 80's when Scottish teams were doing well in Europe to cut the amount of games AFC and DUtd were playing and not because it was poorly attended.

 

That gives all top flight clubs 36 games with 8 of them having another 2 or 3 games in the play offs. TV deals for the play offs as well then takes in more cash for those clubs...

 

When Dunfermline were in the SPL they had crowds of around 7K. Aye there is all the arguments about them overspending and attracting players they couldnt afford etc but the crowds were still there. AFC v Dunfermline was always a popular one a Pittodrie, a lot more popular than us v Hamilton, St Johnstone etc is now.

 

A fairer split of the TV money so its more in line with the EPL and Championship. Its worked for them, it could and should work for us as well. The top 3 take 30-40% of all the cash, not exactly helping the rest of us...

 

After a few years of the money filtering through to the clubs in the lower leagues and also the likes of us because of the fairer split, as long as there are provisos that this revenue has to be reinvested into the clubs, be that in youth or stadia then the overall quality will begin to improve. With an improvement in quality comes more through the gates, more advertising revenue and more TV money the next time round meaning any shortfall in the first few years would be made up and hopefully would actually increase.

 

There are lots of ways to add value and take in more money without going back to a 10 team league. Lets face it, the 10 teams didnt work last time so whats going to make it any different this time?