Spl Vote

[fine-n-dandy]

Just want to keep this apart from the hun administration thread if that's ok?

Otherwise it will get swallowed up & lost.

 

Just want folk to discuss the repercussions of the outcome of this vote & if the clubs vote to allow the huns back into the SPL (especially with no sanctions).

Hopefully our resident pets from other clubs support can voice the opinion from the fans on their forums also.

 

Just having a wee logical think about it & the basics of it. The argument from most diddy clubs that have voiced their fears at the loss of the huns support money etc.

 

Have a think about the costs of voting to allow them back in & the consequences that your chairmen are willing to face in sacrificing sporting fair play & integrity.

 

Taking Aberdeen as the obvious example for us.

At my conservative guess we'd lose up to 20% (maybe more) of our already massively dwindling support. Now if you take that 20% of say an average of say 6000 home support every home game (again conservative figure & not considering away support) that gives you 1200 supporters lost to the home support from EVERY home league game & with approximately 19 home games a season that 22 800 HOME fans lost to the club (maybe forever)

Now that figure dwarfs the loss of away huns at pittodrie a couple (one for bottom sixers maybe) hun games a season brings.

This is also not taking into account the loss at cup games that we'd lose.

 

In short, who gives a fuck if we lose the huns glorious extra marvelous special wonderful away support?

The league as a whole will lose a hell of a lot more if they vote against honesty & integrity.

 

Edit: Even if you half the (imo) already conservative figure of likely lost home support to just 10% that still means we lose over 10 000 home ABERDEEN fans over a season at Pittodrie.

[RUL]

How will know how afc vote? This is the club that won't even tell us whats happening about where we will be playing for 2013/2014

[Ke1t]

Just want to keep this apart from the hun administration thread if that's ok?

Otherwise it will get swallowed up & lost.

 

Just want folk to discuss the repercussions of the outcome of this vote & if the clubs vote to allow the huns back into the SPL (especially with no sanctions).

Hopefully our resident pets from other clubs support can voice the opinion from the fans on their forums also.

 

Just having a wee logical think about it & the basics of it. The argument from most diddy clubs that have voiced their fears at the loss of the huns support money etc.

 

Have a think about the costs of voting to allow them back in & the consequences that your chairmen are willing to face in sacrificing sporting fair play & integrity.

 

Taking Aberdeen as the obvious example for us.

At my conservative guess we'd lose up to 20% (maybe more) of our already massively dwindling support. Now if you take that 20% of say an average of say 6000 home support every home game (again conservative figure & not considering away support) that gives you 1200 supporters lost to the home support from EVERY home league game & with approximately 19 home games a season that 22 800 HOME fans lost to the club (maybe forever)

Now that figure dwarfs the loss of away huns at pittodrie a couple (one for bottom sixers maybe) hun games a season brings.

This is also not taking into account the loss at cup games that we'd lose.

 

In short, who gives a fuck if we lose the huns glorious extra marvelous special wonderful away support?

The league as a whole will lose a hell of a lot more if they vote against honesty & integrity.

 

Edit: Even if you half the (imo) already conservative figure of likely lost home support to just 10% that still means we lose over 10 000 home ABERDEEN fans over a season at Pittodrie.

 

Keep in mind that any figure regarding the Hun vermin's fans coming to Pittodrie will have to be the 5% extorted by the Huns for ticket sales, plus the cost of, what I imagine is, an increase in police presence when the scum are in town.

[fine-n-dandy]

How will know how afc vote? This is the club that won't even tell us whats happening about where we will be playing for 2013/2014

 

 

We don't have to know who votes what.

 

Basically if the majority vote them back in then they will get in & most of the diddy teams (us included) will lose a serious number of their own home support & more than the number of tickets that the huns sell in our grounds in a season.

 

So our chairmen need to realise this & understand this BEFORE they vote for these fuckers.

They have to realise that if they side with cheating & go for hun cash they will end up losing more through the gates than if they do the RIGHT thing.

 

The cash we lose from losing the huns has & is being greatly exaggerated.

 

We are not stupid but they are treating us like we are.

[oilcat]

I seem to remember a suggestion a few years back that the OF should be offered the whole of the SS so that we could increase revenue, I also seem to recall Willie Miller saying that it hade been talked about but binned because "our fans wouldnt have stood for it"

 

 

Well Willie, same thing applies next Wednesday min

[At The Border Guy]

Voting in some of these measures would be EXTREMELY short-sighted. The

[spamspamspam]

In my mind it doesnt matter how AFC vote, its the outcome that is important.

 

If there is a Rangers Newco in the SPL next season then I'm done with Scottish football.

 

I see no reason to follow a league that is corrupt, I will not put any money into it, I will not look out for scores, I will not take in any games nor will I buy any football tops, watch any of the highlights or visit the BBC Scottish football web page.

 

I have other ways to spend my time and money... will I miss it? Of course I will but the SPL have been pushing for the newco to get immediate entry, the BBC have followed suit...

 

I may keep a hand in for the cup games, the SFA for all their sins have been consistent in their outlook and punishments so far but I would not go to any games against Rangers MkIII

[ZeroTolerance]

What do we know of the SPL vote?

 

What number would be required to vote for Rangers 2012 Ltd to admit them to the SPL? 8-4 presumably, although Rangers wouldn't exist so wouldn't have a vote so is that 8-3 or 7-4 to get admitted?

 

Who is for and against at the moment?

 

For The Money: Kilmarnock

 

For Sporting Integrity: Hibernian, Heart of Midlothian, St Johnstone (probably)

 

Undeclared: Aberdeen, Celtic, Dundee United, Inverness Caley, Motherwell, Ross County, St Mirren

 

On that basis it would probably only need one more Club to block Rangers readmission to the SPL and there are several likely candidates - not least Celtic who would probably face the biggest supporter backlash of all if they fail to do the right thing.

 

I have no doubt they would be successful with their application to join the SFL in Division 3 though.

[tup]

They should be in Division 3 next season if they exist at all.

 

My preference is for them to be obliterated from society for ever.

[oilcat]

Da be surprised if that f*ckwit Doncaster shifts the goalposts here and changes round the vote, meaning thet the 8-4 becomes 4-8 if you get my drift

 

Bizarre as it sounds the hun will get to vote on their own future as they are still (for now) an SPL club

[ridaligo]

Just want to keep this apart from the hun administration thread if that's ok?

Otherwise it will get swallowed up & lost.

 

Just want folk to discuss the repercussions of the outcome of this vote & if the clubs vote to allow the huns back into the SPL (especially with no sanctions).

Hopefully our resident pets from other clubs support can voice the opinion from the fans on their forums also.

 

Just having a wee logical think about it & the basics of it. The argument from most diddy clubs that have voiced their fears at the loss of the huns support money etc.

 

Have a think about the costs of voting to allow them back in & the consequences that your chairmen are willing to face in sacrificing sporting fair play & integrity.

 

Taking Aberdeen as the obvious example for us.

At my conservative guess we'd lose up to 20% (maybe more) of our already massively dwindling support. Now if you take that 20% of say an average of say 6000 home support every home game (again conservative figure & not considering away support) that gives you 1200 supporters lost to the home support from EVERY home league game & with approximately 19 home games a season that 22 800 HOME fans lost to the club (maybe forever)

Now that figure dwarfs the loss of away huns at pittodrie a couple (one for bottom sixers maybe) hun games a season brings.

This is also not taking into account the loss at cup games that we'd lose.

 

In short, who gives a fuck if we lose the huns glorious extra marvelous special wonderful away support?

The league as a whole will lose a hell of a lot more if they vote against honesty & integrity.

 

Edit: Even if you half the (imo) already conservative figure of likely lost home support to just 10% that still means we lose over 10 000 home ABERDEEN fans over a season at Pittodrie.

 

I don't understand the financial dilemma for clubs such as ours. On the face of it the calculus seems to be "potential loss of revenue from season tickets, gate receipts, merchandising, etc due to from fans' protest if NewClub gets in" versus "loss of TV revenue and loss of 2 home games against Rangers if NewClub is barred". We already know that the additional revenue from the 2 home games against Rangers is negligible. So, what do we get from the existing TV deal? How much wold we lose from a new TV deal or no TV deal? Others have suggested, again, that its not that much; at least not enough to risk significant drop in season tickets / gate receipts.

 

So, the conclusion you come to is that the Board think the fans protest is an empty threat or at worst will be a short-lived flounce. They are calculating that the fans will get over it, attendances will not be significantly impacted in the longer term and they get to keep the OF TV deal and the 2 Rangers home games. Short-termism and lack of ambition at its worst but hardly surprising given their track record.

 

Is there a "bigger picture" for them to consider? Of course there is but it's a bigger picture without the influence of Rangers at every level of the Scottish football establishment. The issue, of course, is a lack of leadership both at AFC and within the SPL - no-one is prepared to stand up and fill this void. No-one is prepared to propose ripping up the SPL and starting again because there are no visionaries.

 

I have always maintained that Rangers will be in the SPL next season with only token punishments and I stand by that - the only way it will not happen is if a fix cannot be manufactured someway, somehow; it won't be because the 10 SPL clubs share an alternative view of the future and vote accordingly. If they are not prepared to take the initiative now on behalf of their fans and the good of the game, they never will.

 

If a fix / deal can be cobbled together that enables Rangers to play in the SPL next season that will be put to a vote and it will be passed.

[oilcat]

Actually....with the hun saying that they are boycotting away games, surely this makes it easier for the SPL chairmen to make their decision...............nae hun fans whether they are in the SPL or not, budget for it now, let the c*nts shit on their own nest again

 

The only stumbling block is the mythical clauses in the Sky contract which no one (even Sky) wants to go into detail about

[ZeroTolerance]

Da be surprised if that f*ckwit Doncaster shifts the goalposts here and changes round the vote, meaning thet the 8-4 becomes 4-8 if you get my drift

 

Bizarre as it sounds the hun will get to vote on their own future as they are still (for now) an SPL club

 

Surely not. There can't be a vote to admit a newco until after Rangers go into liquidation at which point they don't exist to cast a vote.

[ZeroTolerance]

I don't understand the financial dilemma for clubs such as ours. On the face of it the calculus seems to be "potential loss of revenue from season tickets, gate receipts, merchandising, etc due to from fans' protest if NewClub gets in" versus "loss of TV revenue and loss of 2 home games against Rangers if NewClub is barred". We already know that the additional revenue from the 2 home games against Rangers is negligible. So, what do we get from the existing TV deal? How much wold we lose from a new TV deal or no TV deal? Others have suggested, again, that its not that much; at least not enough to risk significant drop in season tickets / gate receipts.

 

So, the conclusion you come to is that the Board think the fans protest is an empty threat or at worst will be a short-lived flounce. They are calculating that the fans will get over it, attendances will not be significantly impacted in the longer term and they get to keep the OF TV deal and the 2 Rangers home games. Short-termism and lack of ambition at its worst but hardly surprising given their track record.

 

Is there a "bigger picture" for them to consider? Of course there is but it's a bigger picture without the influence of Rangers at every level of the Scottish football establishment. The issue, of course, is a lack of leadership both at AFC and within the SPL - no-one is prepared to stand up and fill this void. No-one is prepared to propose ripping up the SPL and starting again because there are no visionaries.

 

I have always maintained that Rangers will be in the SPL next season with only token punishments and I stand by that - the only way it will not happen is if a fix cannot be manufactured someway, somehow; it won't be because the 10 SPL clubs share an alternative view of the future and vote accordingly. If they are not prepared to take the initiative now on behalf of their fans and the good of the game, they never will.

 

If a fix / deal can be cobbled together that enables Rangers to play in the SPL next season that will be put to a vote and it will be passed.

 

+1

 

A league without Rangers will benefit every other club financially. I am sure of it. But I understand why the other clubs might be afraid, uncertainty is unsettling for anyone.

[V for Vendetta]

There is one simple undeniable way a league without Rangers will benefit clubs financially:

 

The voting structure can be changed if Rangers are not there to block it.

Therefore the TV and Sponsorship income can be redistributed more fairly if Rangers are not there to block it.

 

At which point the increase in SPL money due to all clubs below the 1st and 2nd place will increase. This increased revenue will be there EVERY YEAR GOING FORWARD.

 

If Scum FC have to start their new club in SFL 3 they will be back with all their fans etc in 3 years.

 

So thats an increase for every club, every season guaranteed balanced against a possible reduction for 3 years.

 

Its not hard.

[tup]

The arguments for the retention of Rangers in the SPL are the same as the excuses they have made for their transgressions.

 

Laughable.

 

They should be hit with the heaviest sanction in the history of football, as their crimes are by far the biggest scandal ever to hit football worldwide.

[oilcat]

Surely not. There can't be a vote to admit a newco until after Rangers go into liquidation at which point they don't exist to cast a vote.

 

Well they will be voting on the new financial fair play at the SPL meeting and everything else that is discussed......they need to get their fingers out of their collective arses and deal with this and say whats going to happen with the various scenarios.....the league fixtures are released 19 days after their meeting so unless its going to be something like "Aberdeen v Team 12" decisions HAVE to be made and the hun HAVE to declare whst the f*ck they are intending to do

 

Only in Scotland could this happen

[super_al]

How many votes do we need for a Newco not to be accepted into the SPL?

[oilcat]

How many votes do we need for a Newco not to be accepted into the SPL?

Well thats the thing Al, it will be either 4 or 8...depending on what Doncaster and co want the result to be

[ZeroTolerance]

Well thats the thing Al, it will be either 4 or 8...depending on what Doncaster and co want the result to be

 

No. The vote will have to be to admit a new team - which would require ordinarily require an 8-4 to pass ie 5 clubs required to block. However, as there should only be 11 teams voting I don't know if that will mean that it will need 8-3 to pass as 7-4 isnt a 2/3 majority.

[SoundOfSilence]

Can someone provide some clarity on what is actually being voted on?

 

In my limited knowledge on the subject isnt the vote about the change in the voting structure and new financial fair play rules, ie should another club go into administration what penalties they will be hit with.

 

They cannot be voting for allowing Rangers newco into the league at this point as Rangers old co still exist so would essentially be voting on hypotheticals?

[tup]

Yes I love how these sanctions being proposed will affect all clubs except Rangers.

 

Yet the media link it to the Rangers situation as if it's of critical importance.

 

In reality, it's irrelevant.

[ZeroTolerance]

Can someone provide some clarity on what is actually being voted on?

 

In my limited knowledge on the subject isnt the vote about the change in the voting structure and new financial fair play rules, ie should another club go into administration what penalties they will be hit with.

 

They cannot be voting for allowing Rangers newco into the league at this point as Rangers old co still exist so would essentially be voting on hypotheticals?

There was a meeting planned for 30th May to discuss what you describe. Suggestion is that it will be postponed due to the fluidity of the Rangers situation.

 

As and when Rangers actually go into liquidation the SPL will have to convene another meeting to discuss any proposal for a newco Rangers or, alternatively, the admission of Dundee FC to the SPL.

[perthshirered]

What do we know of the SPL vote?

 

What number would be required to vote for Rangers 2012 Ltd to admit them to the SPL? 8-4 presumably, although Rangers wouldn't exist so wouldn't have a vote so is that 8-3 or 7-4 to get admitted?

 

Who is for and against at the moment?

 

For The Money: Kilmarnock

 

For Sporting Integrity: Hibernian, Heart of Midlothian, St Johnstone (probably)

 

Undeclared: Aberdeen, Celtic, Dundee United, Inverness Caley, Motherwell, Ross County, St Mirren

 

On that basis it would probably only need one more Club to block Rangers readmission to the SPL and there are several likely candidates - not least Celtic who would probably face the biggest supporter backlash of all if they fail to do the right thing.

 

I have no doubt they would be successful with their application to join the SFL in Division 3 though.

 

 

 

 

There is no way that St Johnstone would even consider voting against Rangers remaining in the SPL, no matter what Brown said to the media. Absolutely not a chance.

Apparently if they do fold or go down, which they wont, then 4 clubs would almost instantly go into Administration too, not sure which ones though but 4 was the number mentioned.

Despite this, i couldnt give two hoots. The huns have got to go, no doubt about it. If they are allowed to continue then within a few years they will be back up to strength and with zero debt then we are back to the start again where the rest of the league are simply accepting that they are, and always will be, simply fodder for the Old Firm. The message it sends out is wrong, it sends out the message that the league is based around 2 teams for the benefit of those 2 teams both financially and competition wise. The other 10teams will allow themselves to be fucked up the arse by the Old Firm again and again and if its allowed this time then never again will another opportunity arise like this one which gives the clubs at least a chance to at least try to address the imbalance.

 

If its business as usual next season in the SPL then thats definitely it for me, i will never again attend a domestic fixture in this country.

[Guest]

I could put my house on the fact that unless either CVA or a Newco come about before the 30th (either of which highly unlikely), then the vote will be deferred - yet again.

[redsector]

I could put my house on the fact that unless either CVA or a Newco come about before the 30th (either of which highly unlikely), then the vote will be deferred - yet again.

 

Did the Killie chairman nae say that would be the case, yesterday

[Guest]

Did the Killie chairman nae say that would be the case, yesterday

 

Probably something along those lines, but in all honesty, this is the reason it's been deferred to date. If the hun create a newco within the parameters of the existing rules, then no one can say they have been hard done by. The SPL are crapping themselves at changing the rules beforehand.

 

SFA are a different kettle of fish, but alas, they don't make up the SPL rules.

 

I wouldn't build your hopes up of the SPL doing anything to upset the applecart. All it takes is a couple of Chairmen to veto the voting for it all to get deferred.

[ZeroTolerance]

There is no way that St Johnstone would even consider voting against Rangers remaining in the SPL, no matter what Brown said to the media. Absolutely not a chance.

Apparently if they do fold or go down, which they wont, then 4 clubs would almost instantly go into Administration too, not sure which ones though but 4 was the number mentioned.

Despite this, i couldnt give two hoots. The huns have got to go, no doubt about it. If they are allowed to continue then within a few years they will be back up to strength and with zero debt then we are back to the start again where the rest of the league are simply accepting that they are, and always will be, simply fodder for the Old Firm. The message it sends out is wrong, it sends out the message that the league is based around 2 teams for the benefit of those 2 teams both financially and competition wise. The other 10teams will allow themselves to be fucked up the arse by the Old Firm again and again and if its allowed this time then never again will another opportunity arise like this one which gives the clubs at least a chance to at least try to address the imbalance.

 

If its business as usual next season in the SPL then thats definitely it for me, i will never again attend a domestic fixture in this country.

 

Says who? The Weegie meedja?

 

It's one of those things thrown out there to scare people, but it's utter bollocks.

[Macca]

I believe that was Football Finance Expert Andy Goram who quoted the "4 teams will go bust without ra'rangers'by'ra'way" insight.

[perthshirered]

Says who? The Weegie meedja?

 

It's one of those things thrown out there to scare people, but it's utter bollocks.

 

That come straight out of the mouth of one of the SPL chairmen who has been involved in the discussions. I dont know if its his opinion or if it is something they have discussed amongst themselves though.