Afc: Opinion On League Reconstruction

[vanderark14]

 

 

SPL clubs bracing themselves for no league sponsorship next season, according to Alex O'Henley on twitter.

 

Also, interesting to think of Gilmour's stance regarding the opinions of Milne etc on their decision once you read the following article:

 

http://www.paisleydailyexpress.co.uk/renfrewshire-sport/renfrewshire-football/renfrewshire-football-st-mirren/2012/07/14/gilmour-condemns-horrific-newco-vote-87085-31391368/

I found it interesting that Doncaster claims there were potential sponsors who were keen on the new structure. He did not state that the sponsors were guaranteed but it was obvious that a league with out any direction was going to struggle to gain a sponsor

So what? 100% if rangers were in spl the league would get a sponsor but does that mean its the right thing to do? IMO the proposals were a joke, I've never heard of a league of 12 turning into 3 leagues of 8!

 

The crux is the league is to expensive and that there is not enough folk in Scotland wanting to attend games. When utd played Aberdeen for the top 6 dexider the crowd was less than for a game in October!

 

Whats your solution then RUL, bare in mind that all clubs would need to agree it

 

I am not exactly sure what the rangers issue has to do with this. The 12-12-18 may not be perfect but it was part of a package that saw everyone happy to start with then Ross County and St Mirren were stupid enough to go to the fans with it. Its been explained why it was an all or nothing package due to sacrifices being made by all clubs but people seem to ignore that part and just label the plans a joke.

 

Now we are stuck with the current set up which is the real joke

[spamspamspam]

 

 

The league cup isn't the answer look at crowds for it over the last 10 years!

 

 

1300 more in the LC at Heart v Livi than at Killi v Dundee in the SPL

Dunfermline v Aberdeen (LC) had the same crowd as Ross County v Killie (SPL)

Aberdeen v St Mirren took 2000 more in the LC than Motherwell v St Mirren in the league

 

 

Thats just this season, so what am I looking for exactly?

 

Sell the TV rights and allow a 1 hour highlights program for each round and 1-2 featured games/a live game each round. Add a European place to the mix, make it worth something again and more people will turn up. Thats why IMO the Scottish Cup gets more than the LC, its worth something... There's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

it doesn't make one bit of difference that Hearts got a bigger league cup crowd than Killie did in the league. Bigger clubs have bigger crowds, but how is it in relative terms to their own league games? Not someone elses!!

 

You'd be better comparing Aberdeen St Mirren league cup crowd (7610 - quarter final!) and league crowd (9288).

 

Going back to last season when we drew a lower league side - 3964.

 

Crowds are dire in league cup. How would you get round season ticket prices? Couldn't charge the same for 18/19 home games as 15...big reduction in income there. Or would you include league cup ties? League cup games get hardly any money as season ticket holders already got tickets?

 

i'm sure if someone wanted the league cup rights it would be sold. Agree re European spot though, but then what spot are you going to take - not the Scottish cup one I presume?

 

People through the gate are people through the gate, SC, LC, SPL, SFD. The claim was crowds are poor for the LC, some are, some arent. It would still be additional revenue in a 16 team league.

 

Who says it has to be 16 though, make it 2 leagues of 18 then or 1 of 20 and one of 22.

 

Or here is a real novel idea, clubs cut their cloth accordingly until they get themselves back to a point of making money or at least breaking even every season. If there’s less money in the game for 3-5 years while clubs adapt and get themselves back on track then so be it. As I said above its now at the point that it really needs taken right back to basics.

 

There are many different ways to set it up, all make a lot more sense than 2 leagues of 12 splitting into 3 leagues of 8.

 

Everyone keeps banging on about meaningless games, what meaning will there be in our next 5 games? We’re safe from relegation, we’ve fuck all to play. In fact if Dundee lose their next game and St Mirren win theirs then the next 4 games for every club in the bottom 6 then becomes meaningless, Dundee go down, the rest survive, point of bottom league over. No matter how the league is set up there will be meaningless games. In the EPL right now there are 8 teams still fighting relegation and 7 looking for European places, that’s 5 teams playing meaningless games, well, according to some anyway.

 

Not that any of this matters one jot while Doncaster is in charge. The man is an utter tool and has done more to undersell, devalue, under promote and generally talk down our game than anyone else in Scotland which, for the guy in charge of selling out rights and getting sponsorship is the complete opposite of what he should be doing.

[Monkey]

Everyone keeps banging on about meaningless games, what meaning will there be in our next 5 games? We’re safe from relegation, we’ve fuck all to play. In fact if Dundee lose their next game and St Mirren win theirs then the next 4 games for every club in the bottom 6 then becomes meaningless, Dundee go down, the rest survive, point of bottom league over. No matter how the league is set up there will be meaningless games. In the EPL right now there are 8 teams still fighting relegation and 7 looking for European places, that’s 5 teams playing meaningless games, well, according to some anyway.

 

Which is a reason why the proposed system would have changed that and meant that pretty much every game was "meaningful" when it came to either European places, promotion or relegation. It's fairly obvious that crowds will drop for games that are effectively meaningless but will increase when there is something to play for and the now ditched proposal would of had pretty much every team in the top 24 playing for something.

[Monkey]

Apparently after the last meeting both St Mirren and County put the issue out to fans to vote on. County got an 85% response that they werent in favour of the change, and St Mirren season ticket holders and shareholders were of similar figure. So they jsut represented their fans views, but why they didn't do that earlier seems baffling.

 

I'm not sure 12-12-18 was the way to go, but it was a change and getting the one governing body was a huge step forward.

 

Off the top of my head, Dundee, Dundee Utd and Motherwell in the SPL and at least Hamilton in the first division all consulted their fans and got approval for the changes.

 

The Chairman of Hamilton was on the radio suggesting that it was perhaps that St Mirren and Ross County were just not able to properly able to explain the proposals to their fans as the Hamilton fans were against it to begin with but once it had been properly explained they were in favour of the changes.

 

I'm sure other clubs may well have had their supporters onside.

[spamspamspam]

 

Everyone keeps banging on about meaningless games, what meaning will there be in our next 5 games? We’re safe from relegation, we’ve fuck all to play. In fact if Dundee lose their next game and St Mirren win theirs then the next 4 games for every club in the bottom 6 then becomes meaningless, Dundee go down, the rest survive, point of bottom league over. No matter how the league is set up there will be meaningless games. In the EPL right now there are 8 teams still fighting relegation and 7 looking for European places, that’s 5 teams playing meaningless games, well, according to some anyway.

 

Which is a reason why the proposed system would have changed that and meant that pretty much every game was "meaningful" when it came to either European places, promotion or relegation. It's fairly obvious that crowds will drop for games that are effectively meaningless but will increase when there is something to play for and the now ditched proposal would of had pretty much every team in the top 24 playing for something.

 

 

So why were there more at UtdvAFC in Oct than a couple of weeks ago when we were both playing for the fabled top 6 trophy?

 

OK, so the 2 leagues of 12 split into 3 of 8. club placed 9th in top league gets drawn against clubs placed 1-4 in 2nd league in the first 4 games. That club wins those games, next 4 games for that club are now meaningless, they've got their place in the top league again...

 

You'll get 'meaningless games' no matter how its set up unless its a league of 4 with 2 up and 2 down.

[Monkey]

So why were there more at UtdvAFC in Oct than a couple of weeks ago when we were both playing for the fabled top 6 trophy?

 

 

2 points: In Oct we were 3 points off first place and a win could of taken us top meanwhile Utd were 2nd bottom only 4 points above Dundee. and the top six "trophy" is hardly a prize.

 

 

 

OK, so the 2 leagues of 12 split into 3 of 8. club placed 9th in top league gets drawn against clubs placed 1-4 in 2nd league in the first 4 games. That club wins those games, next 4 games for that club are now meaningless, they've got their place in the top league again...

 

You'll get 'meaningless games' no matter how its set up unless its a league of 4 with 2 up and 2 down.

 

So you think having obtained 12 points in their 1st 4 games that this will be enough to secure 4th place in a league of 14 games?

 

I think you have misunderstood how the middle 8 would work as teams would play each other home and away, but even if one team won their first say 10 games and were therefore mathematically safe for promotion whilst their remaining games might be "meaningless" for that team it would not necessarily be meaningless for the opposition who could still be trying to win promotion/avoid relegation.

 

In a top 8 you have the European places to play for so that means the top 3 or 4 places would mean something and with 5 games to go this year the teams down to 6th place could still have a decent shout at Europe.

[Byrne Baby Byrne]

Add a European place to the LC, so you're then taking away one from the league I presume?

 

Just adds more meaningless games if its only the top 2/3 who can get Europe.

 

Last year St Johnstone got in Europe for finishing 6th in the SPL, while Kilmarnock never got Europe despite winning the League Cup. I thought that was a shambles.

[muttonhumper]

 

 

Apparently after the last meeting both St Mirren and County put the issue out to fans to vote on. County got an 85% response that they werent in favour of the change, and St Mirren season ticket holders and shareholders were of similar figure. So they jsut represented their fans views, but why they didn't do that earlier seems baffling.

 

I'm not sure 12-12-18 was the way to go, but it was a change and getting the one governing body was a huge step forward.

 

Initially I would have agreed that this needs to go to the fans and although this will sound like the fans are being taken likely, I do not think they should have bothered consulting them.

 

Fans apparently want a 16 team league but its not financially viable and they would not have been aware of this. I'd like to know if Ross County and St Mirren gave their fans the full facts.

 

 

Says who? The same folk that told us Scottish football NEEDS a Rangers in the top tier? The same folk that gave away out broadcasting rights for peanuts?? The same folk that spent months predicting Rangers wouldnt go bust, months telling us Rangers didnt cheat, the same folk that tell us the OF should move to England??

 

No.

[spamspamspam]

 

So why were there more at UtdvAFC in Oct than a couple of weeks ago when we were both playing for the fabled top 6 trophy?

 

 

2 points: In Oct we were 3 points off first place and a win could of taken us top meanwhile Utd were 2nd bottom only 4 points above Dundee. and the top six "trophy" is hardly a prize.

 

 

 

>OK, so the 2 leagues of 12 split into 3 of 8. club placed 9th in top league gets drawn against clubs placed 1-4 in 2nd league in the first 4 games. That club wins those games, next 4 games for that club are now meaningless, they've got their place in the top league again...

 

You'll get 'meaningless games' no matter how its set up unless its a league of 4 with 2 up and 2 down.

 

So you think having obtained 12 points in their 1st 4 games that this will be enough to secure 4th place in a league of 14 games?

 

I think you have misunderstood how the middle 8 would work as teams would play each other home and away, but even if one team won their first say 10 games and were therefore mathematically safe for promotion whilst their remaining games might be "meaningless" for that team it would not necessarily be meaningless for the opposition who could still be trying to win promotion/avoid relegation.

 

In a top 8 you have the European places to play for so that means the top 3 or 4 places would mean something and with 5 games to go this year the teams down to 6th place could still have a decent shout at Europe.

 

 

Were we going to win the league or something then in October? Christ on a fucking busted bike. Yes the top 6 trophy is a fucking fiasco, I'd say thats why I used the word fabled in front of it.

 

I havent misunderstood it at all, win 4-6 games in that league and you're in the top league again. It may be mathematically possible for a team to fuck it up after that but highly improbable.

 

You have that now with the top 6, whats the difference? Why is this so much better than the shite we're trying to get rid of then?

[spamspamspam]

 

 

 

Apparently after the last meeting both St Mirren and County put the issue out to fans to vote on. County got an 85% response that they werent in favour of the change, and St Mirren season ticket holders and shareholders were of similar figure. So they jsut represented their fans views, but why they didn't do that earlier seems baffling.

 

I'm not sure 12-12-18 was the way to go, but it was a change and getting the one governing body was a huge step forward.

 

Initially I would have agreed that this needs to go to the fans and although this will sound like the fans are being taken likely, I do not think they should have bothered consulting them.

 

Fans apparently want a 16 team league but its not financially viable and they would not have been aware of this. I'd like to know if Ross County and St Mirren gave their fans the full facts.

 

 

Says who? The same folk that told us Scottish football NEEDS a Rangers in the top tier? The same folk that gave away out broadcasting rights for peanuts?? The same folk that spent months predicting Rangers wouldnt go bust, months telling us Rangers didnt cheat, the same folk that tell us the OF should move to England??

 

No.

 

 

Really? So who is it then that is coming out with the financially viable pish? If it isnt Doncaster and the SPL chairmen who were the same people that said we're all doomed without Rangers and if it isnt some of the same journos that kept banging the OF to Englandshire drum then who exactly is it.

 

Oh thats right, it is.

[Foster14]

Didn't the proposed system flop where it has been utilised before?

 

As for the sponsorship part, I don't get how we could ever end up in a scanario with no sponsorship. It sounds like scaremongering again. There will be less value in the sponsorship, but it will still be there. Maybe if there was a bit more realism in what came from those running the game, you'd get more fans on side.

 

Too much doomsday scenario and cloak and dagger comments about what the rejection of proposals will mean to Scottish football...

[beer gut]

It makes no difference what format the league is because the people trying to restructure the game are concentrating solely on how to bring in more money rather than looking at the actual problem of why our players are so shite. The prices keep going up and up and the quality keeps falling. Something will have to give sooner or later. Fucking about with league formats is avoiding the real issues.

[RTYD]

 

Everyone keeps banging on about meaningless games, what meaning will there be in our next 5 games? We’re safe from relegation, we’ve fuck all to play. In fact if Dundee lose their next game and St Mirren win theirs then the next 4 games for every club in the bottom 6 then becomes meaningless, Dundee go down, the rest survive, point of bottom league over. No matter how the league is set up there will be meaningless games. In the EPL right now there are 8 teams still fighting relegation and 7 looking for European places, that’s 5 teams playing meaningless games, well, according to some anyway.

 

Which is a reason why the proposed system would have changed that and meant that pretty much every game was "meaningful" when it came to either European places, promotion or relegation. It's fairly obvious that crowds will drop for games that are effectively meaningless but will increase when there is something to play for and the now ditched proposal would of had pretty much every team in the top 24 playing for something.

Nail on the head I think.

[buchanskii]

It makes no difference what format the league is because the people trying to restructure the game are concentrating solely on how to bring in more money rather than looking at the actual problem of why our players are so shite. The prices keep going up and up and the quality keeps falling. Something will have to give sooner or later. Fucking about with league formats is avoiding the real issues.

 

Stop speaking so much sense.

 

If every game was as exciting as the two recent semi-finals, and the prices to watch were cheaper then the fans would come back, regardless of the league system.

[Jute]

SPL clubs bracing themselves for no league sponsorship next season, according to Alex O'Henley on twitter.

 

Also, interesting to think of Gilmour's stance regarding the opinions of Milne etc on their decision once you read the following article:

 

http://www.paisleydailyexpress.co.uk/renfrewshire-sport/renfrewshire-football/renfrewshire-football-st-mirren/2012/07/14/gilmour-condemns-horrific-newco-vote-87085-31391368/

 

Doncaster confirmed on the radio the other night that they have no deal on the table for any league set up the current one or the 8-8-8 set up. He did say that they hoped that the new structure would generate more interest but before the meeting none had been forthcoming. Interestingly he did say that TV deal is not linked to the league structure and would not have increased under the new set up so makes a bit of a mockery of the claims that new set up would get more cash from broadcasters given the Sky deal is set for 5 years.

[rossafc92]

As for the lack of games in a 16 team league, said it before and Im saying it again. The League Cup is the answer to that and under 1 body its perfectly plausible to change the way that is played and add the missing games back into the season. But no, instead the idiots in suits that have dont nothing but fuck our game over and over again up the arse for 15 years still think they know best when history tells us they actually know fuck all.

 

Appreciate the sentiment behind the League Cup idea, and I think you could look towards a league of 16 with that tournament making up for the shortfall. However, there is real difficulty in adding extra value to the League Cup at the moment. Our co-efficient is at the lowest it's been in some time, therefore we've lost a Champions League place and Europa League place. As has been pointed out, adding a Euro place to League Cup winners would certainly add value, however it takes it away from the league, meaning only 2nd place would get a Europa League slot, unless you took away the place from the Scottish Cup (wouldn't happen though).

 

 

 

SPL clubs bracing themselves for no league sponsorship next season, according to Alex O'Henley on twitter.

 

Also, interesting to think of Gilmour's stance regarding the opinions of Milne etc on their decision once you read the following article:

 

http://www.paisleydailyexpress.co.uk/renfrewshire-sport/renfrewshire-football/renfrewshire-football-st-mirren/2012/07/14/gilmour-condemns-horrific-newco-vote-87085-31391368/

I found it interesting that Doncaster claims there were potential sponsors who were keen on the new structure. He did not state that the sponsors were guaranteed but it was obvious that a league with out any direction was going to struggle to gain a sponsor

So what? 100% if rangers were in spl the league would get a sponsor but does that mean its the right thing to do? IMO the proposals were a joke, I've never heard of a league of 12 turning into 3 leagues of 8!

 

The crux is the league is to expensive and that there is not enough folk in Scotland wanting to attend games. When utd played Aberdeen for the top 6 dexider the crowd was less than for a game in October!

 

Not really fair to use that comparison though, given the attitude of our support towards seeing getting into the top 6 as some sort of achievement.

 

 

Add a European place to the LC, so you're then taking away one from the league I presume?

 

Just adds more meaningless games if its only the top 2/3 who can get Europe.

 

Last year St Johnstone got in Europe for finishing 6th in the SPL, while Kilmarnock never got Europe despite winning the League Cup. I thought that was a shambles.

 

That was partly down to Rangers not being allowed the European place finishing second would have normally entitled them to. Agreed though that it was a bit of a shambles that we had the team that finished half-way in the league getting a Europa League spot and a side that had won a national trophy not getting one.

 

 

SPL clubs bracing themselves for no league sponsorship next season, according to Alex O'Henley on twitter.

 

Also, interesting to think of Gilmour's stance regarding the opinions of Milne etc on their decision once you read the following article:

 

http://www.paisleydailyexpress.co.uk/renfrewshire-sport/renfrewshire-football/renfrewshire-football-st-mirren/2012/07/14/gilmour-condemns-horrific-newco-vote-87085-31391368/

 

Doncaster confirmed on the radio the other night that they have no deal on the table for any league set up the current one or the 8-8-8 set up. He did say that they hoped that the new structure would generate more interest but before the meeting none had been forthcoming. Interestingly he did say that TV deal is not linked to the league structure and would not have increased under the new set up so makes a bit of a mockery of the claims that new set up would get more cash from broadcasters given the Sky deal is set for 5 years.

 

As I said in a previous post, he couldn't say anything was actually in place. Why would it have been, if he couldn't guarantee the proposal for the new leagues would go through to the potential sponsors? I'd have rather been in a position where we had interest from possible sponsors than a position where we didn't have any at all.

[rossafc92]

It makes no difference what format the league is because the people trying to restructure the game are concentrating solely on how to bring in more money rather than looking at the actual problem of why our players are so shite. The prices keep going up and up and the quality keeps falling. Something will have to give sooner or later. Fucking about with league formats is avoiding the real issues.

 

Surely we have to try and get more money coming into our game in order to ensure that we produce a better standard of player?

[Foster14]

 

It makes no difference what format the league is because the people trying to restructure the game are concentrating solely on how to bring in more money rather than looking at the actual problem of why our players are so shite. The prices keep going up and up and the quality keeps falling. Something will have to give sooner or later. Fucking about with league formats is avoiding the real issues.

 

Surely we have to try and get more money coming into our game in order to ensure that we produce a better standard of player?

 

Only if the money went in to youth development and more youth players got game time.

 

Arguably, the more money there is, more likelihood clubs will invest in average journeymen.

 

Overall, I think the main issue for fans was the lack of positive advertisment of the proposed structures etc, instead focussing on the negatives of what is here currently and negatives off what will happen with no change (with no hard facts of negatives, just conjecture). Seems this is the main strategy of trying to make change. Easier to rubbish something else, than big up your own.

[muttonhumper]

 

 

 

 

Apparently after the last meeting both St Mirren and County put the issue out to fans to vote on. County got an 85% response that they werent in favour of the change, and St Mirren season ticket holders and shareholders were of similar figure. So they jsut represented their fans views, but why they didn't do that earlier seems baffling.

 

I'm not sure 12-12-18 was the way to go, but it was a change and getting the one governing body was a huge step forward.

 

Initially I would have agreed that this needs to go to the fans and although this will sound like the fans are being taken likely, I do not think they should have bothered consulting them.

 

Fans apparently want a 16 team league but its not financially viable and they would not have been aware of this. I'd like to know if Ross County and St Mirren gave their fans the full facts.

 

 

Says who? The same folk that told us Scottish football NEEDS a Rangers in the top tier? The same folk that gave away out broadcasting rights for peanuts?? The same folk that spent months predicting Rangers wouldnt go bust, months telling us Rangers didnt cheat, the same folk that tell us the OF should move to England??

 

No.

 

 

Really? So who is it then that is coming out with the financially viable pish? If it isnt Doncaster and the SPL chairmen who were the same people that said we're all doomed without Rangers and if it isnt some of the same journos that kept banging the OF to Englandshire drum then who exactly is it.

 

Oh thats right, it is.

 

Certainly nae the same folk coming out with 3 out of 4 of your "same folk" were the nun sypmathising press and radio pundits giving the it doomsday scenario and OF to England pish.

Those were based on biased speculation.

The other 1 out of 4 was the majority of SPL clubs who blew that broadcasting deal.

 

Whereas those saying the 16 team league is not financially viable (in all likelihood) are guys/fans/board members looking at sums and making reasonable assertions based on less games...less attractive games etc.

 

There is no parallel.

 

So, nae the same folk. Which you were stating.

Seems pretty clear to me.

[rossafc92]

 

 

It makes no difference what format the league is because the people trying to restructure the game are concentrating solely on how to bring in more money rather than looking at the actual problem of why our players are so shite. The prices keep going up and up and the quality keeps falling. Something will have to give sooner or later. Fucking about with league formats is avoiding the real issues.

 

Surely we have to try and get more money coming into our game in order to ensure that we produce a better standard of player?

 

Only if the money went in to youth development and more youth players got game time.

 

Arguably, the more money there is, more likelihood clubs will invest in average journeymen.

 

Overall, I think the main issue for fans was the lack of positive advertisment of the proposed structures etc, instead focussing on the negatives of what is here currently and negatives off what will happen with no change (with no hard facts of negatives, just conjecture). Seems this is the main strategy of trying to make change. Easier to rubbish something else, than big up your own.

 

Most clubs in the SPL do now play a lot of their young players. Don't think we can accuse clubs of not giving youth a chance anymore.

 

I agree that the proposals were not advertised well enough. Every club should have at least outlined the proposals on their websites, clearly explaining how it would all work. As someone else pointed out, that seemed to be the turning point for most people at a Hamilton Accies fans Q&A recently. Most were against the proposals at the start of the evening, however after they'd been given a presentation on it, there was only one person in the room still against it.

[tup]

I personally think a 16 team top league playing each other twice a season, in summer (ditch winter football as the absurdity it is) would be a roaring success and a breath of fresh air.

 

A change is as good as a rest. At the moment the best option looks like just packing it in altogether such is the depth of apathy we are witnessing.

[tup]

No, most of this thread is the type of waffle those running our game come away with whilst ignoring the huge issues which have been staring them in the face since the inception of the SPL.

 

It's one massive exercise in hair splitting.

 

Nothing will change by revising the format of the leagues, and this should be absolutely obvious to anyone with even a hint of nous about them.

 

In order to salvage Scottish football, those in power need to be removed, and replaced by those with fairness and equality as their chief concerns.

[spamspamspam]

 

 

 

 

 

Apparently after the last meeting both St Mirren and County put the issue out to fans to vote on. County got an 85% response that they werent in favour of the change, and St Mirren season ticket holders and shareholders were of similar figure. So they jsut represented their fans views, but why they didn't do that earlier seems baffling.

 

I'm not sure 12-12-18 was the way to go, but it was a change and getting the one governing body was a huge step forward.

 

Initially I would have agreed that this needs to go to the fans and although this will sound like the fans are being taken likely, I do not think they should have bothered consulting them.

 

Fans apparently want a 16 team league but its not financially viable and they would not have been aware of this. I'd like to know if Ross County and St Mirren gave their fans the full facts.

 

 

Says who? The same folk that told us Scottish football NEEDS a Rangers in the top tier? The same folk that gave away out broadcasting rights for peanuts?? The same folk that spent months predicting Rangers wouldnt go bust, months telling us Rangers didnt cheat, the same folk that tell us the OF should move to England??

 

No.

 

 

Really? So who is it then that is coming out with the financially viable pish? If it isnt Doncaster and the SPL chairmen who were the same people that said we're all doomed without Rangers and if it isnt some of the same journos that kept banging the OF to Englandshire drum then who exactly is it.

 

Oh thats right, it is.

 

Certainly nae the same folk coming out with 3 out of 4 of your "same folk" were the nun sypmathising press and radio pundits giving the it doomsday scenario and OF to England pish.

Those were based on biased speculation.

The other 1 out of 4 was the majority of SPL clubs who blew that broadcasting deal.

 

Whereas those saying the 16 team league is not financially viable (in all likelihood) are guys/fans/board members looking at sums and making reasonable assertions based on less games...less attractive games etc.

 

There is no parallel.

 

So, nae the same folk. Which you were stating.

Seems pretty clear to me.

 

 

What an utter fucking crock of shite you've just came oot with.

 

Doncaster - Armageddon if there is no Rangers in the SPL

Doncaster - Not voting for this system is doomsday for the SPL and Scottish football

 

Henry McLeish - Scottish football needs Rangers in the SPL, they must stay up

Henry McLeish - Its the best way forward (which I find strange as I cant remember seeing this option in his report) clubs must rethink for the good of Scottish football. The deal isnt dead yet.

 

Milne - THe SPL NEEDS Rangers

Milne - Not voting for this system will kill Scottish football

 

As for your guys/fans pish... Wasnt the resounding result of the fans survey for a 16 team league? Lets just put that under the carpet though, it doesnt fit with your argument.

[muttonhumper]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apparently after the last meeting both St Mirren and County put the issue out to fans to vote on. County got an 85% response that they werent in favour of the change, and St Mirren season ticket holders and shareholders were of similar figure. So they jsut represented their fans views, but why they didn't do that earlier seems baffling.

 

I'm not sure 12-12-18 was the way to go, but it was a change and getting the one governing body was a huge step forward.

 

Initially I would have agreed that this needs to go to the fans and although this will sound like the fans are being taken likely, I do not think they should have bothered consulting them.

 

Fans apparently want a 16 team league but its not financially viable and they would not have been aware of this. I'd like to know if Ross County and St Mirren gave their fans the full facts.

 

 

Says who? The same folk that told us Scottish football NEEDS a Rangers in the top tier? The same folk that gave away out broadcasting rights for peanuts?? The same folk that spent months predicting Rangers wouldnt go bust, months telling us Rangers didnt cheat, the same folk that tell us the OF should move to England??

 

No.

 

 

Really? So who is it then that is coming out with the financially viable pish? If it isnt Doncaster and the SPL chairmen who were the same people that said we're all doomed without Rangers and if it isnt some of the same journos that kept banging the OF to Englandshire drum then who exactly is it.

 

Oh thats right, it is.

 

Certainly nae the same folk coming out with 3 out of 4 of your "same folk" were the nun sypmathising press and radio pundits giving the it doomsday scenario and OF to England pish.

Those were based on biased speculation.

The other 1 out of 4 was the majority of SPL clubs who blew that broadcasting deal.

 

Whereas those saying the 16 team league is not financially viable (in all likelihood) are guys/fans/board members looking at sums and making reasonable assertions based on less games...less attractive games etc.

 

There is no parallel.

 

So, nae the same folk. Which you were stating.

Seems pretty clear to me.

 

 

What an utter fucking crock of shite you've just came oot with.

 

Really. It's not the same people. You are changing the argument to suit your initial statement which was incorrect

 

There' also no need for that attitude.

Condescending and fairly insulting and not really conducive to making a reasoned point.

 

I'm going to leave it there.

[spamspamspam]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apparently after the last meeting both St Mirren and County put the issue out to fans to vote on. County got an 85% response that they werent in favour of the change, and St Mirren season ticket holders and shareholders were of similar figure. So they jsut represented their fans views, but why they didn't do that earlier seems baffling.

 

I'm not sure 12-12-18 was the way to go, but it was a change and getting the one governing body was a huge step forward.

 

Initially I would have agreed that this needs to go to the fans and although this will sound like the fans are being taken likely, I do not think they should have bothered consulting them.

 

Fans apparently want a 16 team league but its not financially viable and they would not have been aware of this. I'd like to know if Ross County and St Mirren gave their fans the full facts.

 

 

Says who? The same folk that told us Scottish football NEEDS a Rangers in the top tier? The same folk that gave away out broadcasting rights for peanuts?? The same folk that spent months predicting Rangers wouldnt go bust, months telling us Rangers didnt cheat, the same folk that tell us the OF should move to England??

 

No.

 

 

Really? So who is it then that is coming out with the financially viable pish? If it isnt Doncaster and the SPL chairmen who were the same people that said we're all doomed without Rangers and if it isnt some of the same journos that kept banging the OF to Englandshire drum then who exactly is it.

 

Oh thats right, it is.

 

Certainly nae the same folk coming out with 3 out of 4 of your "same folk" were the nun sypmathising press and radio pundits giving the it doomsday scenario and OF to England pish.

Those were based on biased speculation.

The other 1 out of 4 was the majority of SPL clubs who blew that broadcasting deal.

 

Whereas those saying the 16 team league is not financially viable (in all likelihood) are guys/fans/board members looking at sums and making reasonable assertions based on less games...less attractive games etc.

 

There is no parallel.

 

So, nae the same folk. Which you were stating.

Seems pretty clear to me.

 

 

What an utter fucking crock of shite you've just came oot with.

 

Really. It's not the same people. You are changing the argument to suit your initial statement which was incorrect

 

There' also no need for that attitude.

Condescending and fairly insulting and not really conducive to making a reasoned point.

 

I'm going to leave it there.

 

 

Strange, I see no change of argument at all in this multitude of quotes.

 

Ignoring valid points and arguing against them with made up pish, claiming guys/fans believe something when all the polls, official SFA poles and other online polls showed the complete opposite is a lot less conductive to having a reasoned discussion that telling someone they're making up pish when they are.

 

If you dont like being called up when you make up shite to suit your own point, dont make up shite.

[caledonia]

 

Apparently after the last meeting both St Mirren and County put the issue out to fans to vote on. County got an 85% response that they werent in favour of the change, and St Mirren season ticket holders and shareholders were of similar figure. So they jsut represented their fans views, but why they didn't do that earlier seems baffling.

 

I'm not sure 12-12-18 was the way to go, but it was a change and getting the one governing body was a huge step forward.

 

Initially I would have agreed that this needs to go to the fans and although this will sound like the fans are being taken likely, I do not think they should have bothered consulting them.

 

Fans apparently want a 16 team league but its not financially viable and they would not have been aware of this. I'd like to know if Ross County and St Mirren gave their fans the full facts.

why do people keep saying this shit

of course its financially viable clubs just need to live within their means

 

The fans want a 16 team league so the clubs need to simply adjust to this and cost accordingly

And could someone please explain the other excuse of meaningless game - what is a meaningless game

 

As a supporter of the dons Aberdeen v Raith is just as important as Aberdeen v Dundee (3 points for a win)

[K-9]

 

 

Apparently after the last meeting both St Mirren and County put the issue out to fans to vote on. County got an 85% response that they werent in favour of the change, and St Mirren season ticket holders and shareholders were of similar figure. So they jsut represented their fans views, but why they didn't do that earlier seems baffling.

 

I'm not sure 12-12-18 was the way to go, but it was a change and getting the one governing body was a huge step forward.

 

Initially I would have agreed that this needs to go to the fans and although this will sound like the fans are being taken likely, I do not think they should have bothered consulting them.

 

Fans apparently want a 16 team league but its not financially viable and they would not have been aware of this. I'd like to know if Ross County and St Mirren gave their fans the full facts.

why do people keep saying this shit

of course its financially viable clubs just need to live within their means

 

The fans want a 16 team league so the clubs need to simply adjust to this and cost accordingly

And could someone please explain the other excuse of meaningless game - what is a meaningless game

 

As a supporter of the dons Aberdeen v Raith is just as important as Aberdeen v Dundee (3 points for a win)

If you don't understand that crowds against the smaller sides are and always have been in general a lot smaller then no point in anyone even discussing things with you.

[tommo1903]

I dont understand how diddy clubs in League 2 can play 46 games a season with less crowds than we get, yet a league of 16 with everyone playing each other 3 times couldn't work.

[Ke1t]

I think people miss the point entirely.

 

It's completely irrelevant if you have 10, 12, 14, 16 or 18 teams in the top league. If it isn't competitive, to the extent that virtually every league title and every trophy goes to the same two teams year after year after year, then you can have all the teams you want... people still won't be interested in attending.

 

The number one thing that needs to be fixed is competition. Make it competitive and you can have however many teams you like.

 

The only thing of LESS importance than how many teams play in the top league would maybe be a discussion on changing referees whistles from black to white.

[K-9]

I dont understand how diddy clubs in League 2 can play 46 games a season with less crowds than we get, yet a league of 16 with everyone playing each other 3 times couldn't work.

Seriously?