Afc: Opinion On League Reconstruction

[baconman]

 

 

 

Why not have 3 leagues of 14. Winners of league get promoted and 2nd-3rd go into playoff for last place. Bottom two clubs go down. The bottom league should be amateur, middle league part timers and top league full time pro. Should prevent clubs going bust. Play each other twice. Have an extended winter break (Jan-Feb) and start league earlier in July. All 3 leagues and national team administered under one association i.e. SFA. No SPL or SFL. Simple structure, larger leagues, playoffs etc.

26 games a season? 6 home gates less per team? Not in a million years.

why not look at it this way a lot of supporters are picking their games now with the prices so high

so less games means maybe more support at the reduced amount and it would cut the overheads

 

bit like your work going to 4 days instead of 5 (save on overheads for the company such as electric, heating etc etc) and travel for the employee and give them a day off

the club would save on less stewarding, police and other costs it takes to run a match and the supporter could save on travel and cost of ticket pie etc

thus having money to go to the other games

Our budget would be cut drastically for starters, as would whole leagues. Any semi decent players would be off at first chance down south even more so than now.

 

We would become like league of Wales.

 

Who wants to watch that?

Erm I think we seem to be going in that direction anyway. By the way clubs in Champ, League 1 and 2 in England are also having to cut their costs struggling to keep up with payments. I think less games would help. I cant be arsed watching us play Killie or St Mirren 2 or 3 times a year at home. Its boring regardless of how well we are playing. Total afternoon out after ticket, food and couple pints is nearly 50 quid. Standard of fitba is generally pish, stadium is falling to bits plus why put up with this in the middle of winter freezing all extremities. Players wages will start going down and hopefully so will ticket prices. Players wont leave in their droves for better wages down south because there is already many out of work. Only those who have more about them like Mcginn will probably be ok but generally the rest will be praying AFC offer them a contract because the alternatives are scarce.

[caledonia]

Not going to argue any more because no matter how many teams we end up with whether its 16 or 10 crowds will still fall

 

 

 

 

Apparently after the last meeting both St Mirren and County put the issue out to fans to vote on. County got an 85% response that they werent in favour of the change, and St Mirren season ticket holders and shareholders were of similar figure. So they jsut represented their fans views, but why they didn't do that earlier seems baffling.

 

I'm not sure 12-12-18 was the way to go, but it was a change and getting the one governing body was a huge step forward.

 

Initially I would have agreed that this needs to go to the fans and although this will sound like the fans are being taken likely, I do not think they should have bothered consulting them.

 

Fans apparently want a 16 team league but its not financially viable and they would not have been aware of this. I'd like to know if Ross County and St Mirren gave their fans the full facts.

why do people keep saying this shit

of course its financially viable clubs just need to live within their means

 

The fans want a 16 team league so the clubs need to simply adjust to this and cost accordingly

And could someone please explain the other excuse of meaningless game - what is a meaningless game

 

As a supporter of the dons Aberdeen v Raith is just as important as Aberdeen v Dundee (3 points for a win)

If you don't understand that crowds against the smaller sides are and always have been in general a lot smaller then no point in anyone even discussing things with you.

And if you cant understand less games means fans paying out less money its not worth discussing things with you either

teams need to live within their means and that means less games and a bigger league

 

whats next for the keep it at 10 brigade if that does not work maybe reduce it to 4 and play each other about 50 times

 

maybe if there were less games fans would not need to cherry pick which matches to go to and go to them all

[Rubinho Escocia]

I'd prefer a 16 team league and think it would be a success.

 

As for why I want it, to me one of the most important aspects in football which is often missed is entertainment. I think Scottish football is sterile with the same teams playing over and over again which is leading to poor entertainment. Further I think teams playing different styles of teams and approaches would improve the quality of players within the league and the volume of quality players.

 

I also think this would increase competition at the top of the league as a team wouldn't have to beat Celtic 4 times head to head to compete - I'd still expect Celtic or any other club spends vastly more money than anyone else to be more successful over the long term sadly.

 

Loss of income is seen as a concern by many in a larger league but I think it could be made to work (as could any format with competent boards in place) and indeed the part of the desire for this reconstruction was to apparently move to a larger league at a later date so it must be viable - if you believe that was their intention... My view is, if it is the right thing to do, do it now rather than have an interim step which will no doubt be hard to change in the future!

 

On overall crowds I'd expect that if we played say Hearts once at home a season instead of twice we'd get a bigger crowd than the recent c.10,000 as the novelty would increase for both sets of fans, this would in part (if not fully) offset any reduction in crowd seen by playing say Morton. You could do something with the league cup or something more imaginative if you're desperate for more games.

 

Corporate money may need to be managed in line with crowd expectations (playing Celtic, Hearts, United only once should increase demand and therefore cost) and as for TV deals I think we've generally had terrible TV deals in recent years compared to our peers and should be looking to improve this regardless of league format. In any event TV disproportionally impacts team like Aberdeen as our big home games get shown reducing the crowds - they won't show Celtic at home vs Aberdeen - so having less games on TV may encourage more folk to go!

 

The main tricky part about the 16 team league for me is the league below, as there would be only 4-5 teams with any realistic chance of being competitive in a top league but that could in part be managed by the increased cash distribution which was proposed as part of this restructure. However, if we want a bigger league and 12-12-18 was an interim step towards it, then why not go straight to the solution and do the fine tuning from there?

[dj_bollocks]

Might have already been mentioned but certainly this season a play off would have kept things interesting - 2nd bottom plays 2nd top of Div 1... I have no confidence in any of the fuds running the game to sort out anything anymore though... Masters of their own fate...

[spamspamspam]

So those who wanted a bigger league, were they asked for and did they give any indication as to why they wanted a bigger league?

 

Or was it just click whatever takes your fancy with no need to back up what you think with any sort of facts or reasoning, other than some sort of sense that their opinion should be listened to?

 

There are plenty of numptees out there with the critical thinking skills of a jammy dodger, so let's not hang on their views too much,

 

The SFA fans survey asked what was wanted, 87% of fans wanted a larger league with 51% of those then wanting a 16 team league. So the majority of punters want league expansion.

 

The McLeish report made 2 recommendations for league reconstruction. The one deemed best financially was to go back to 4 leagues of 10. The one that was closer to what the fans wanted was a league of 14. (page 71). Nowhere in the report does it say the best way forward, looking at the history of both the Scottish league and how other leagues have worked and not worked around the globe should we then try a system that has failed everywhere its been tried.

 

While you could say the fans that replied to that poll are numptees you could also say all those in charge of our game now pushing this idea of the new league system are also numptees for spending money and almost 2 years putting a report together and completely ignoring it and also completely ignoring the majority of their punters at the same time.

[daytripping]

As has already been said they're putting too much empathise on league sizes when this is not the real problem, we're watching a poor standard of football in really poor weather conditions, plus paying premium money for the privilege, we need to think out of the box, Summer football, kids get in free, provide pre match entertainment, make it fun for the young people, play offs are a must, cheaper tickets also.

 

We need to make it fun again, the last time I really enjoyed Pittodrie was when you didn't have numbered seats and you and your mates just sat where you wanted too, so get rid of the numbers as well, season ticket should be for the stand not a seat. The atmospheres back then were a million times what we have now, if a complete stranger hugged or jumped on you when we scored a goal these days I'd think he was weird, 20 years ago it was the norm!

[rockinred]

I personally think a 16 team top league playing each other twice a season, in summer (ditch winter football as the absurdity it is) would be a roaring success and a breath of fresh air.

 

A change is as good as a rest. At the moment the best option looks like just packing it in altogether such is the depth of apathy we are witnessing.

 

Absolutely, I'd go for 2 16-team top leagues and a bottom league of 10 - and summer football.

 

As there would only be 30 league games per season I'd also bring in an extra cup - the SPL cup, so you'd have 3 cups per season (SPL, League and Scottish). That would ensure that there are enough fixtures per season for top clubs. I'd allocate a UEFA cup place to the winner of each cup to make the cup competitions exciting. If the cup winner had already won another cup then the UEFA spot could go to a league runner up spot.

[beer gut]

I think people miss the point entirely.

 

It's completely irrelevant if you have 10, 12, 14, 16 or 18 teams in the top league. If it isn't competitive, to the extent that virtually every league title and every trophy goes to the same two teams year after year after year, then you can have all the teams you want... people still won't be interested in attending.

 

The number one thing that needs to be fixed is competition. Make it competitive and you can have however many teams you like.

 

The only thing of LESS importance than how many teams play in the top league would maybe be a discussion on changing referees whistles from black to white.

Fuckin spot on.

[spamspamspam]

We need to make it fun again, the last time I really enjoyed Pittodrie was when you didn't have numbered seats and you and your mates just sat where you wanted too, so get rid of the numbers as well, season ticket should be for the stand not a seat. The atmospheres back then were a million times what we have now, if a complete stranger hugged or jumped on you when we scored a goal these days I'd think he was weird, 20 years ago it was the norm!

 

So really what you're saying is now you're older you're also a narky bastard that can take some of the blame for the lack of atmosphere in Pittodrie.

 

Different days now dayts, the young guy that was jumping all over the place next to you 20 years ago will now snarl at you for swearing in front of his kid in the south stand.

 

What sort of pre match entertainment? It would have to be something actually worth watching that didnt involve some shitey chart tune being made to sound even worse than it actually does by being blasted over the crappy Pittodrie sound system. And please, nowt like reds and co again, made me feel dirty.

 

Personally I'd say the best way to get people back and improve the atmosphere is to play attacking football and win more than we lose at home. If we can produce a team worth watching on a weekly basis people will turn up.. we were actually nae bad for the first few months of the season, lost count of the amount of times Pittodrie was ready to rock only for the game to peter out to a 0-0 or worse the opposition to score.

[tup]

The atmosphere at Tannadice in recent times is no better or worse than it was 20 years ago.

 

I'd say it's just daytripping that is different, on account of the fact that he's past it.

[K-9]

 

We need to make it fun again, the last time I really enjoyed Pittodrie was when you didn't have numbered seats and you and your mates just sat where you wanted too, so get rid of the numbers as well, season ticket should be for the stand not a seat. The atmospheres back then were a million times what we have now, if a complete stranger hugged or jumped on you when we scored a goal these days I'd think he was weird, 20 years ago it was the norm!

So really what you're saying is now you're older you're also a narky bastard that can take some of the blame for the lack of atmosphere in Pittodrie. Different days now dayts, the young guy that was jumping all over the place next to you 20 years ago will now snarl at you for swearing in front of his kid in the south stand. What sort of pre match entertainment? It would have to be something actually worth watching that didnt involve some shitey chart tune being made to sound even worse than it actually does by being blasted over the crappy Pittodrie sound system. And please, nowt like reds and co again, made me feel dirty. Personally I'd say the best way to get people back and improve the atmosphere is to play attacking football and win more than we lose at home. If we can produce a team worth watching on a weekly basis people will turn up.. we were actually nae bad for the first few months of the season, lost count of the amount of times Pittodrie was ready to rock only for the game to peter out to a 0-0 or worse the opposition to score.

No points for 0-0 draws would be a good start in my opinion.

[beer gut]

 

 

We need to make it fun again, the last time I really enjoyed Pittodrie was when you didn't have numbered seats and you and your mates just sat where you wanted too, so get rid of the numbers as well, season ticket should be for the stand not a seat. The atmospheres back then were a million times what we have now, if a complete stranger hugged or jumped on you when we scored a goal these days I'd think he was weird, 20 years ago it was the norm!

So really what you're saying is now you're older you're also a narky bastard that can take some of the blame for the lack of atmosphere in Pittodrie. Different days now dayts, the young guy that was jumping all over the place next to you 20 years ago will now snarl at you for swearing in front of his kid in the south stand. What sort of pre match entertainment? It would have to be something actually worth watching that didnt involve some shitey chart tune being made to sound even worse than it actually does by being blasted over the crappy Pittodrie sound system. And please, nowt like reds and co again, made me feel dirty. Personally I'd say the best way to get people back and improve the atmosphere is to play attacking football and win more than we lose at home. If we can produce a team worth watching on a weekly basis people will turn up.. we were actually nae bad for the first few months of the season, lost count of the amount of times Pittodrie was ready to rock only for the game to peter out to a 0-0 or worse the opposition to score.

No points for 0-0 draws would be a good start in my opinion.

Or 1 point for a 0-0, 2 points for a score draw and 3 points for a win.

[K-9]

The atmosphere at Tannadice in recent times is no better or worse than it was 20 years ago. I'd say it's just daytripping that is different, on account of the fact that he's past it.

Nonsense there min. Atmosphere at places like Tannadice especially and most away grounds was so much better way back it is close to unmeasurable. Of course seating is the main problem. The old covered terraces were brilliant compared to now where you get seat number and that is where you have to sit.

 

Some of the bounces in covered terracing alongside pitch at Dunfermline, Kilmarnock, Motherwell, St mirren, Falkirk and Partick were magic and the steep covered terracing alongside pitch at Tannadice was on another level.

 

Even the uncovered terracing at likes of Hearts and Hibs ended with great atmospheres.

 

Hillsborough effectively killed atmosphere at football.

[K-9]

 

 

 

We need to make it fun again, the last time I really enjoyed Pittodrie was when you didn't have numbered seats and you and your mates just sat where you wanted too, so get rid of the numbers as well, season ticket should be for the stand not a seat. The atmospheres back then were a million times what we have now, if a complete stranger hugged or jumped on you when we scored a goal these days I'd think he was weird, 20 years ago it was the norm!

So really what you're saying is now you're older you're also a narky bastard that can take some of the blame for the lack of atmosphere in Pittodrie. Different days now dayts, the young guy that was jumping all over the place next to you 20 years ago will now snarl at you for swearing in front of his kid in the south stand. What sort of pre match entertainment? It would have to be something actually worth watching that didnt involve some shitey chart tune being made to sound even worse than it actually does by being blasted over the crappy Pittodrie sound system. And please, nowt like reds and co again, made me feel dirty. Personally I'd say the best way to get people back and improve the atmosphere is to play attacking football and win more than we lose at home. If we can produce a team worth watching on a weekly basis people will turn up.. we were actually nae bad for the first few months of the season, lost count of the amount of times Pittodrie was ready to rock only for the game to peter out to a 0-0 or worse the opposition to score.

No points for 0-0 draws would be a good start in my opinion.

Or 1 point for a 0-0, 2 points for a score draw and 3 points for a win.

Reckon even more teams would settle for draws in that scenario. Teams wouldn't gamble losing 2 points in pushing for winner for extra 1 point. Could always get rid of draws like the do in some yank sports and make a winner every game.

[tup]

Nonsense there min. Atmosphere at places like Tannadice especially and most away grounds was so much better way back it is close to unmeasurable. Of course seating is the main problem. The old covered terraces were brilliant compared to now where you get seat number and that is where you have to sit.

 

Some of the bounces in covered terracing alongside pitch at Dunfermline, Kilmarnock, Motherwell, St mirren, Falkirk and Partick were magic and the steep covered terracing alongside pitch at Tannadice was on another level.

 

Even the uncovered terracing at likes of Hearts and Hibs ended with great atmospheres.

 

Hillsborough effectively killed atmosphere at football.

 

I don't agree on the uncovered terraces, I remember being behind the goal at Tannadice in the Jess/Booth era (opposite end from Shed) and the atmosphere was non-existent, because it was uncovered.

 

Same at Tynecastle for SC semi-final with Hibs, no roof, no atmosphere.

 

Even Hampden for the Skol Cup Final in 1992 wisna great.

 

If the stadium is full, the atmosphere will be good, as evidenced by Pittodrie itself, which has been all seated for longer than any other ground.

[vanderark14]

I think people miss the point entirely.

 

It's completely irrelevant if you have 10, 12, 14, 16 or 18 teams in the top league. If it isn't competitive, to the extent that virtually every league title and every trophy goes to the same two teams year after year after year, then you can have all the teams you want... people still won't be interested in attending.

 

The number one thing that needs to be fixed is competition. Make it competitive and you can have however many teams you like.

 

The only thing of LESS importance than how many teams play in the top league would maybe be a discussion on changing referees whistles from black to white.

 

 

good post kelt but getting a more competitive league is not on the agenda for the OF so its a no go

 

Read this article yesterday and although splitting gates is not appealing to a lot in our support - the guy makes a good case for it

 

http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/sport/football/richard-bath-most-successful-era-when-gate-receipts-were-split-equitably-1-2386654

[tommo1903]

 

I dont understand how diddy clubs in League 2 can play 46 games a season with less crowds than we get, yet a league of 16 with everyone playing each other 3 times couldn't work.

Seriously?

Maybe.

[beer gut]

 

 

 

 

We need to make it fun again, the last time I really enjoyed Pittodrie was when you didn't have numbered seats and you and your mates just sat where you wanted too, so get rid of the numbers as well, season ticket should be for the stand not a seat. The atmospheres back then were a million times what we have now, if a complete stranger hugged or jumped on you when we scored a goal these days I'd think he was weird, 20 years ago it was the norm!

So really what you're saying is now you're older you're also a narky bastard that can take some of the blame for the lack of atmosphere in Pittodrie. Different days now dayts, the young guy that was jumping all over the place next to you 20 years ago will now snarl at you for swearing in front of his kid in the south stand. What sort of pre match entertainment? It would have to be something actually worth watching that didnt involve some shitey chart tune being made to sound even worse than it actually does by being blasted over the crappy Pittodrie sound system. And please, nowt like reds and co again, made me feel dirty. Personally I'd say the best way to get people back and improve the atmosphere is to play attacking football and win more than we lose at home. If we can produce a team worth watching on a weekly basis people will turn up.. we were actually nae bad for the first few months of the season, lost count of the amount of times Pittodrie was ready to rock only for the game to peter out to a 0-0 or worse the opposition to score.

No points for 0-0 draws would be a good start in my opinion.

Or 1 point for a 0-0, 2 points for a score draw and 3 points for a win.

Reckon even more teams would settle for draws in that scenario. Teams wouldn't gamble losing 2 points in pushing for winner for extra 1 point. Could always get rid of draws like the do in some yank sports and make a winner every game.

I can see your point but my take on it is they would have more reason to score a goal from the start. They would also have less to lose if they are winning the match so they would be more likely to push on for more goals rather than try to defend the 3 points

[ChutneyLove]

3 points for a win, a point for a draw as is - but an additional point for every goal you score even if you get beat. So, you're 4-0 down at half time and still have an incentive to play. A team that gets beat 4-3 gets only one point less than a team that wins 1-0.

 

In recent seasons The Dons would be fucked like.

[Bamber]

3 points for a win, a point for a draw as is - but an additional point for every goal you score even if you get beat. So, you're 4-0 down at half time and still have an incentive to play. A team that gets beat 4-3 gets only one point less than a team that wins 1-0.

 

In recent seasons The Dons would be fucked like.

 

 

Just go simple 3 Points for a win 1 pt for a score draw

 

Get rid of this notion that 0-0 is a good result

 

Another option would be 2 pts for a win and 1 pt for scoring your first goal

 

so you get 3 pts for a win but even if you get beat you get a point for scoring - a nil nil is unrewarded but 6-1 defeat rewards for at least trying

[sheepiekev]

14 team league.

Split into 2 x 7's after 26 games.

Final 12 games in 2 sections of 7.

1 team relegated, the 2nd bottom team goes into a playoff.

Season played from first week March to end of November.....more likely to get parents taking kids in better weather, the pitches will be in better condition, and also we might get more TV money if it's the only show in town in June & July.

Also, summer football takes away the farce of the Europa League qualifiers coming off the beach to play tough matches first up.

[ericblack4boss]

i have had time to think over the failed reconstruction and have to say whilst i was not keen on 12 -12- 18 to start with mainly because it was the brainchild of the cartel i came round to the idea and could see real merit in the 8-8-8 split.

The real problem is the 11-1 vote that is what is strangling change and indeed was there not a big rumus aroun 10 years ago when clubs including AFC threatened to leave the SPL over the voting regime,

surely a similar stance is required again,

ironically the motion to chnge to 9-3 was voted down by us last year too.

[ericblack4boss]

Apparently the SFL now want to come up with thier own way forward for the game is there any point the last proposal put forwrd by them (16-10-16) was promptly kicked into the long grass by the cartel, in favour of thier all encompassing and righteous, now failed set up i think it is now time for the SFa who have done the square root of fuck all so far to say to both parties ,right donkeycaster, your memebers were allowed to run with thier plan that was the rejected by the cartel themselves, we now think it's only fair to allow the SFL to put forward thier own plans should that fail too.

we the SFA will withold the licences of ALL SPL clubs until your voting criteria is changed to a majority for ALL decisions, and SFL clubs until an agreement is reached, or we will come in and impose our own set up that you will not have the options to turn down,

right ye cunts

[vanderark14]

14 team league.

Split into 2 x 7's after 26 games.

Final 12 games in 2 sections of 7.

1 team relegated, the 2nd bottom team goes into a playoff.

Season played from first week March to end of November.....more likely to get parents taking kids in better weather, the pitches will be in better condition, and also we might get more TV money if it's the only show in town in June & July.

Also, summer football takes away the farce of the Europa League qualifiers coming off the beach to play tough matches first up.

 

 

1 team down and 1 playoff in a larger league would be even more boring that the current setup.

[fine-n-dandy]

I like the idea of three leagues of 14.

play each other twice then split & play each other twice again.

 

38 games a season but so fuck

[sheepiekev]

 

14 team league.

Split into 2 x 7's after 26 games.

Final 12 games in 2 sections of 7.

1 team relegated, the 2nd bottom team goes into a playoff.

Season played from first week March to end of November.....more likely to get parents taking kids in better weather, the pitches will be in better condition, and also we might get more TV money if it's the only show in town in June & July.

Also, summer football takes away the farce of the Europa League qualifiers coming off the beach to play tough matches first up.

 

 

1 team down and 1 playoff in a larger league would be even more boring that the current setup.

potentially 2 with the play off, and the play offs would be sell outs, or close to it.

Attractive to the clubs, and TV.

Or you could have the 2nd bottom and 3rd bottom going into semi finals with the 2nd & 3rd from Division 1, with the winner from the 4 staying up and the others going/staying down.

I also like the idea of summer football....not as if we have to worry about our embarrassment of a national team ever getting near another tournament in the next 200 years or so.

[fine-n-dandy]

 

 

14 team league.

Split into 2 x 7's after 26 games.

Final 12 games in 2 sections of 7.

1 team relegated, the 2nd bottom team goes into a playoff.

Season played from first week March to end of November.....more likely to get parents taking kids in better weather, the pitches will be in better condition, and also we might get more TV money if it's the only show in town in June & July.

Also, summer football takes away the farce of the Europa League qualifiers coming off the beach to play tough matches first up.

 

 

1 team down and 1 playoff in a larger league would be even more boring that the current setup.

potentially 2 with the play off, and the play offs would be sell outs, or close to it.

Attractive to the clubs, and TV.

Or you could have the 2nd bottom and 3rd bottom going into semi finals with the 2nd & 3rd from Division 1, with the winner from the 4 staying up and the others going/staying down.

I also like the idea of summer football....not as if we have to worry about our embarrassment of a national team ever getting near another tournament in the next 200 years or so.

& what happens for the four weeks every other year during world & Euro tournaments? What International players are going to want to play in a Summer league in reality?

 

I am totally against Summer football.

 

I see no reason why the midweek games we play cannot all be played earlier in our season (when the weather is better) & be more flexible with fixtures for during best weather periods.

 

None of the shite midweek winter games then & no need to be a drastic as changing a whole league/Country to Summer football.

 

Not going to get into this debate on Summer football cos we're not going to change each others opinions on the matter so it's completely pointless & will just leave it at that.

[The Boofon]

I like the idea of three leagues of 14.

play each other twice then split & play each other twice again.

 

38 games a season but so fuck

 

 

It is nice but the complaint would be in the split there would be a team in each half without a game every weekend. I know that doesn't sound a big deal as a week off wouldn't do a team too much harm second half of the season but come last game of the season a team wouldn't have a game. Last games are always same kick off times so a team could have an unfair advantage in knowing what they need to win the league or at the other end avoid relegation.

 

Otherwise it's very good.

[vanderark14]

 

 

14 team league.

Split into 2 x 7's after 26 games.

Final 12 games in 2 sections of 7.

1 team relegated, the 2nd bottom team goes into a playoff.

Season played from first week March to end of November.....more likely to get parents taking kids in better weather, the pitches will be in better condition, and also we might get more TV money if it's the only show in town in June & July.

Also, summer football takes away the farce of the Europa League qualifiers coming off the beach to play tough matches first up.

 

 

1 team down and 1 playoff in a larger league would be even more boring that the current setup.

potentially 2 with the play off, and the play offs would be sell outs, or close to it.

Attractive to the clubs, and TV.

Or you could have the 2nd bottom and 3rd bottom going into semi finals with the 2nd & 3rd from Division 1, with the winner from the 4 staying up and the others going/staying down.

I also like the idea of summer football....not as if we have to worry about our embarrassment of a national team ever getting near another tournament in the next 200 years or so.

 

there are too many meaningless games due to a lack of relegation places. Adding two teams to it with only one guaranteed relegation place would make things worse than they are now.

[The Boofon]

Put 2 down, 2 up and the 3rd and 4th bottom and 3rd and 4th top play off for promotion/ relegation.