Scottish Independence Referendum 2

[patrick bateman]

2 minutes ago, Ten Caat said:

I cant remember where I read sadly but the figures have stuck in my mind....there were approx 380000 English born voters eligible to vote in the indyref and 92% of them voted no.

I'm presuming the second figure was extrapolated from pre-referendum opinion polls

So the numbers differ on how many English born Scotland based people there were 

 

1 hour ago, Edwin Starr said:

418,000

380000

Half a million from mhd 

Then there's a difference in the percentage

And all of this in a secret ballot, or as you say extrapolated from opinion polls, so not actually evidence.

I'm sure you can appreciate that it's a constant mis statement of fact (I won't call it a lie as I don't think all people set out to mislead deliberately) that allows a narrative of it's the English who voted no not the Scots and if it had just been the Scots we'd be independent to be presented, I'd also ask what does that say about those promoting that narrative.

But well I think people can make their own judgement on that.

[Ten Caat]

Just now, patrick bateman said:

So the numbers differ on how many English born Scotland based people there were 

 

380000

Half a million from mhd 

Then there's a difference in the percentage

And all of this in a secret ballot, or as you say extrapolated from opinion polls, so not actually evidence.

I'm sure you can appreciate that it's a constant mis statement of fact (I won't call it a lie as I don't think all people set out to mislead deliberately) that allows a narrative of it's the English who voted no not the Scots and if it had just been the Scots we'd be independent to be presented, I'd also ask what does that say about those promoting that narrative.

But well I think people can make their own judgement on that.

There's around half a million English born in Scotland. But not all are of voting age.....

[manboobs109]

How many EU born people voted in the first vote have now fucked off?

It's all moot. She needs to stop this 'de facto' nonsense and do her job.

I support independence but she got herself in too much of a fankle making conflicting arguments and it's gotten to the stage that she and the SNP are more a hindrance than a help.

She should step down before the next Scottish elections, let a cunt without her baggage take over and maybe in 4 or 5 years time people will be ready.

The prospect of years of wrangling over this is putting loads of people off.

[sigh]

3 hours ago, caledonia said:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/arlene-foster-to-go-up-against-sturgeon-as-she-establishes-anti-independence-group/ar-AA14tZ3Y?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=4afa93c07ba347ba9f556ff429b45cac

Huns and orange order on the union side

She is shittin it as catholics are now the majority in NI, they may well vote themselves out of the Union before Scotland, the Marching folk are all about the Union

[NEM]

1 hour ago, Reed or deed said:

But that wouldn’t be the case if English law and politics would allow the people of Scotland the democratic right to vote for their own independence.

It’s been 8 years since the last referendum and there are another 8 generations of young people now eligble to vote. They deserve their say.

How anyone can argue that scotlands independent fate would be any worse that it is now, being shackled by english incompetence and misconduct is beyond me. 
 

A generation is a year is it?  Surely you're not allowed to vote?

[sigh]

5 minutes ago, manboobs109 said:

How many EU born people voted in the first vote have now fucked off?

It's all moot. She needs to stop this 'de facto' nonsense and do her job.

I support independence but she got herself in too much of a fankle making conflicting arguments and it's gotten to the stage that she and the SNP are more a hindrance than a help.

She should step down before the next Scottish elections, let a cunt without her baggage take over and maybe in 4 or 5 years time people will be ready.

The prospect of years of wrangling over this is putting loads of people off.

Who would step up to take her place though - no exactly a line of  strong candidates within SNP is there?

(I agree though that the next 5 years will just be more of the same though, and it will turn folk away from the SNP)

[Ten Caat]

The obvious replacement for Sturgeon was Joanna Cherry but the relatively recent bad publicity around her claims of being bullied has probably ruled her out.

There's 2 very young women that stand out as possible future leaders but likely too young for now in Kate Forbes (just had first baby) and Jenny Gilruth ( in a relationship with ex Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale). Both are probably 10 years short of being leadership candidates but I think at least one of them will eventually take the job. Of course if we get independence in the interim, who knows what the SNP will evolve into once it's main policy is no longer an issue. 

If something happened to Sturgeon that meant a new leader was required right now, I think they'd probably go with Swinney initially. Not a great politician by any means but relatively safe with previous experience of being leader (though not First Minister). Outside bet...Alison Thewliss from the Westminster cadre of MP's

 

[Schapenneuker]

Swinney is an awful communicator with absolutely no personality, and in this age of tiny attention spans and populist politics he might be the safe bet (and I'm not sure he is) but he most certainly wouldn't attract new voters to the SNP or the independence movement. 

If the SNP were to go with the tried and tested, then Angus Robertson has far more fire in his belly and is a better communicator than Swinney. He's also a far more skillful politician. 

I agree that Kate Forbes and Jenny Gilruth are potential future leaders, but Forbes has the disadvantage of being a wee free and her views on abortion in particular, would work against her in the real world. 

Jenny Gilruth seems to have the personality and the political skills to lead the party, but as you say she's probably a bit too young at this point in time. 

It's a tricky one for the SNP. A big part of their success over the last 15 years was having Sturgeon as a natural successor to Salmond. 

That's not the case anymore.

 

 

[Ten Caat]

I did think about Angus Robertson as a potential leader but wonder if him managing to lose his seat in 2017 Westminster election.....to Douglas fucking Ross of all people....might count against him? 

He's an excellent communicator of that there is no doubt

[Reed or deed]

58 minutes ago, NEM said:

A generation is a year is it?  Surely you're not allowed to vote?

Every year another amount of people reach legal voting age.

Are you saying that they do not deserve a say or a vote on what is effectively their own future?

That’s 8 years worth of people who have reached voting age and at the other end, people die, so the demographic has completely changed.

An old vote does not reflect current attitudes or circumstances.

[Ten Caat]

3 minutes ago, Sooper-hanz said:

Plenty of life left in wee Nicola yet. Without sounding too shallow an image makeover would do her the world of good. Nothing too radical, lighten up the hair and update the wardrobe a bit.

Lose the belly.....she looks about 5 months pregnant

[The Gee Man]

2 minutes ago, Reed or deed said:

Every year another amount of people reach legal voting age.

Are you saying that they do not deserve a say or a vote on what is effectively their own future?

That’s 8 years worth of people who have reached voting age and at the other end, people die, so the demographic has completely changed.

An old vote does not reflect current attitudes or circumstances.

By that theory we need an independence referendum every year

[Reed or deed]

2 minutes ago, The Gee Man said:

By that theory we need an independence referendum every year

That is just silly.

But in a voluntary union, should Scotland not be able to leave if it so wants and also, when it wants?

 

[The Gee Man]

4 minutes ago, Reed or deed said:

That is just silly.

But in a voluntary union, should Scotland not be able to leave if it so wants and also, when it wants?

 

Yes of course, I have stated before I believe in independence, but we can’t keep saying we must have one cos people a year older. Because it also means next 3/4 years worth of teenager’s might want to put the UK back together. So let’s go again. We could do with a vote that explains what we say a generation is! Maybe 20 years is, I don’t actually know

[Reed or deed]

Just now, The Gee Man said:

Yes of course, I have stated before I believe in independence, but we can’t keep saying we must have one cos people a year older. Because it also means next 3/4 years worth of teenager’s might want to put the UK back together. So let’s go again. We could do with a vote that explains what we say a generation is! Maybe 20 years is, I don’t actually know

Yep i agree.

Maybe it should coincide with each general election, given they illustrate the will of the scottish voting public at that time.

 

[The Gee Man]

Just now, Reed or deed said:

Yep i agree.

Maybe it should coincide with each general election, given they illustrate the will of the scottish voting public at that time.

 

Not sure about that as sometimes a panicked party call an early general election. But think this time we do need a specific date set for another as we need some stability 

[sigh]

32 minutes ago, Ten Caat said:

I did think about Angus Robertson as a potential leader but wonder if him managing to lose his seat in 2017 Westminster election.....to Douglas fucking Ross of all people....might count against him? 

He's an excellent communicator of that there is no doubt

Imagine if he did lead the SNP to independence - an Englishman with a German mother - the english would be in uproar

How heck doess Douglas Ross keep his seat(s), a horrible wee yappy man

[caledonia]

53 minutes ago, Schapenneuker said:

Swinney is an awful communicator with absolutely no personality, and in this age of tiny attention spans and populist politics he might be the safe bet (and I'm not sure he is) but he most certainly wouldn't attract new voters to the SNP or the independence movement. 

If the SNP were to go with the tried and tested, then Angus Robertson has far more fire in his belly and is a better communicator than Swinney. He's also a far more skillful politician. 

I agree that Kate Forbes and Jenny Gilruth are potential future leaders, but Forbes has the disadvantage of being a wee free and her views on abortion in particular, would work against her in the real world. 

Jenny Gilruth seems to have the personality and the political skills to lead the party, but as you say she's probably a bit too young at this point in time. 

It's a tricky one for the SNP. A big part of their success over the last 15 years was having Sturgeon as a natural successor to Salmond. 

That's not the case anymore.

 

 

Robertson should be jailed

[Jocky Balboa]

1 hour ago, Ten Caat said:

I cant remember where I read sadly but the figures have stuck in my mind....there were approx 380000 English born voters eligible to vote in the indyref and 92% of them voted no.

I'm presuming the second figure was extrapolated from pre-referendum opinion polls

Good point. Whatever the true figure though, it should never be forgotten that WM were only too happy for all residents in Scotland over 18 to have the vote, but for the EU referendum, they made sure this was most certainly not the case!

1 hour ago, Roberto said:

Vote Green.

A woke cabal of transactivist nutjobs. Not a chance in hell.

32 minutes ago, Ten Caat said:

I did think about Angus Robertson as a potential leader but wonder if him managing to lose his seat in 2017 Westminster election.....to Douglas fucking Ross of all people....might count against him? 

He's an excellent communicator of that there is no doubt

If the true comes out about certain legal issues... Nope. 

I think a crucial point that needs to be made, in addition to the inalienable right of self-determination, is that Northern Ireland has the right to revisit the question every 7 years, as is legislated for in the Good Friday Agreement. In a so-called "Union of equals" it is indefensible that one member should be allowed to do this, but not another. The Unionists lost their majority in 2017 and haven't had it back since, nor will they ever. There have also been conferences in Dublin and Belfast discussing the issue, so it's inevitable that a referendum will be demanded. The SNP leadership, if they were serious about independence (and I've said since 2016 Sturgeon and co. are not) should be front and centre here, demanding Scotland be heard. 

Personally, I think the chancer will shrug her shoulders, then dangle her Krankie Karrot for "one more mandate" at the next election. The faithful will vote for her like lemmings, either because they believe her horseshit, or because they know letting a Unionist party back in would be disastrous.

[Dom Sullivan]

1 hour ago, Sooper-hanz said:

Plenty of life left in wee Nicola yet. Without sounding too shallow an image makeover would do her the world of good. Nothing too radical, lighten up the hair and update the wardrobe a bit.

[manboobs109]

2 hours ago, sigh said:

Who would step up to take her place though - no exactly a line of  strong candidates within SNP is there?

(I agree though that the next 5 years will just be more of the same though, and it will turn folk away from the SNP)

Somebody with no baggage from the Covid debacle.

[Andy_123]

57 minutes ago, The Gee Man said:

By that theory we need an independence referendum every year

It's a fair point being made though. In 8 years, how many new eligible voters are there, and how many older voters have died? There has been a big shift in Scotlands voter demographic since then. The people who act as though the goalposts haven't changed significantly since the last referendum as well are either incredible naive, or just purposefully ignorant.

I'm not sure how disappointed the SNP will actually be with the courts decision though. Despite the loss, it's probably helped them in some ways because it's confirmed that the UK is not a voluntary union at all, despite the rhetoric that comes out of Westminister, so that'll probably buy them some more votes.

I think they'd be shitting it if they actually had to follow through on taking Scotland through to being independent. Their independence manifesto they released the other month showed they would are wildly underprepared for it. 

[Matt Armstrong's Dog]

18 hours ago, CCB III said:

I'm not saying you can't think for yourself, I'm saying being half English will influence your decision making. 
 

Ok, so what's the point then? You're happy for the majority in Scotland to turn up at an election, and just be supplementary to what our neighbours want? 
 

Nobody mentioned your mother you fucking fruitcake. Stop your Pearl clutching. Fud. 

It does not influence my decision-making so shut the fuck up.

So what if I'm half English? That's immaterial to how I vote, whatever the election is, mind you, you know better, of course.

You referred to my English bloodline, which directly is my Mother. Don't try to be selective and adopt a "I never do anything wrong or be provocative, as I'm so perfect" approach, you were referring to her. End of.

Mind you, you'll be telling me next she isn't English as you know better than me on every single subject going, you arrogant, condescending,  slickit prick.

[Matt Armstrong's Dog]

16 hours ago, Parklife said:

😂😂😂 

What a fucking zoomer. 

Fuck off, you smug cunt.🤬

[Matt Armstrong's Dog]

13 hours ago, Redforever86 said:

well since you suggested it....

 

Do you think there is a correlation between having an English mother who provides you with shelter, and your personal fascination to be mollycoddled and seek welfare from the British state? Reaching a semi erotic crescendo in which you desire to suckle from the weary teat of the Goddess Britannia?

You are a dead man, RF. I would happily do time for you.

How fucking dare you, you nasty bastard.

For the record, I no longer stay with my Mother, you fucking retard, and as for your "personal fascination to be mollycoddled and seek welfare from the British state", you well and truly have overstepped the mark.

Do you really think I enjoy my fucking life being out of work and having a rare disability that has put paid to me working at this time and prevents me from undertaking hobbies that I had before?

I don't choose to live my life like this, you fucking dickhead. 

[Matt Armstrong's Dog]

5 hours ago, Edwin Starr said:

Matt my wife's English born and bred Londoner she's a passionate YES.

But I think CCB is getting at in 2014 there was 418.000 of our English friends living in Scotland 75% of them voted no and most vote Tories.

It is what it is.

I'm hoping being out of Europe will boost our YES vote because that was a big deal for them in 2014..

 

 

You put it over in far better rational manner than ccb, Edwin min👍.

He simply is gaslighting and playing mind games with me.

[CCB III]

16 minutes ago, Matt Armstrong's Dog said:

It does not influence my decision-making so shut the fuck up.

So what if I'm half English? That's immaterial to how I vote, whatever the election is, mind you, you know better, of course.

You referred to my English bloodline, which directly is my Mother. Don't try to be selective and adopt a "I never do anything wrong or be provocative, as I'm so perfect" approach, you were referring to her. End of.

Mind you, you'll be telling me next she isn't English as you know better than me on every single subject going, you arrogant, condescending,  slickit prick.

Did I know it was to your mother? No, and I don't care. Of course your Englishness influences how you vote, everyone's circumstance or heritage will influence them in SOME way.  
 

You've decided to get offended on her behalf when no cunt mentioned her you nutter. How could I be referring to her if I didn't know she was the English parent 😂
 

A fellow poster messaged me asking me to leave you alone, as they were worried about how you take things. 
 

I did for a while, and I'll go back to doing so. 


 

😂

 

[CCB III]

6 minutes ago, Matt Armstrong's Dog said:

You put it over in far better rational manner than ccb, Edwin min👍.

He simply is gaslighting and playing mind games with me.

He didn't even put over the point I was making. 
 

For example, my Mother has an English mother and was very 'No' the last time around. I've no doubt it influenced her. 
 

 

[CCB III]

7 minutes ago, Matt Armstrong's Dog said:

You put it over in far better rational manner than ccb, Edwin min👍.

He simply is gaslighting and playing mind games with me.

I promise you I'm not. I'm simply disagreeing with you and conveying my disagreement in the same way I would to anyone else. 
 

A real chip on your shoulder, min. 

[Matt Armstrong's Dog]

Just now, CCB III said:

Did I know it was to your mother? No, and I don't care. Of course your Englishness influences how you vote, everyone's circumstance or heritage will influence them in SOME way.  
 

You've decided to get offended on her behalf when no cunt mentioned her you nutter. How could I be referring to her if I didn't know she was the English parent 😂
 

A fellow poster messaged me asking me to leave you alone, as they were worried about how you take things. 
 

I did for a while, and I'll go back to doing so. 


 

😂

 

You are fucking at it again, telling me my English side of my family influences me in SOME way in how I vote.

Take a fucking telling it doesn't, you misplaced wankstain.

And as for your "you've decided to get offended on her behalf", I never decided to be offended so don't you dare tell me how I feel. It doesn't matter if it was her or my old man you were referring to in terms of my "Englishness", you overstepped the mark but, of course, you are above admitting it.

You simply cannot help yourself.