Match Thread (International) Scotland Vs Kazakhstan & San Marino

[Ke1t]

Hi,

 

Yes, but we have to beat Finland and then Serbia. Not sure what happens if either of them qualify automatically though.

 

A competent football association would sack McLeish now and put everything into building a team to win those games.

 

Meh.

 

This is in fact the perfect campaign to throw out all the old cunts and start experimenting with the youngsters. 

 

I don't mean that in a Catholic way. 

[shooftahmooftah]

Craig brown says mcleish should not be sacked. I agree. The whole team mcleish and back room staff plus those idiots. That run Scotland FA should be sacked. If they draw or San Marino wins mcleish and company shouldn't be allowed entry into UK.

[maryhilldon]

 

 

Might sound like hyperbole, but does anyone genuinely think we're going to recover from this and race into a qualifying spot?

 

 

 

Just Craig Brown.

[Hazlehead Don]

Don't worry we're in good hands with big Malky's Project Brave.

 

A few more years of that and we'll be soon be toppling the countries full of fucking chinkies, fat jews and black cunts as big Malky affectionately refers to them as.

[Hazlehead Don]

Project Brave you’re having a laugh, pro youth teams pick the tallest, quickest, strongest boys ahead of the boys that are physically smaller but with superior technical ability. Until we focus on technical ability we will never develop and ultimate move on as a nation.

[Panda]

This is in fact the perfect campaign to throw out all the old cunts and start experimenting with the youngsters.

 

I don't mean that in a Catholic way.

Is that not what McLeish has essentially been doing?

 

Strachan's last game - there were five players over the age of 30 and the average age of the team was 28.

 

Just now there's only player in the whole squad over 30 (McLaughlin) and the average age of the starting line-up v Kazakhstan was 24.

 

With Fraser, Robertson and Paterson coming back in, the average age could be even younger v San Marino.

[aberdeen1970]

Aye he has been choosing younger players but the pool just isn't that deep especially if the likes of Robertson and Fraser are missing.

 

Maybe kelt means they should start choosing some of the next generation, those 18 to 21 but I don't think too many of them have much first team football yet.

[V for Vendetta]

Is that not what McLeish has essentially been doing?

 

Strachan's last game - there were five players over the age of 30 and the average age of the team was 28.

 

Just now there's only player in the whole squad over 30 (McLaughlin) and the average age of the starting line-up v Kazakhstan was 24.

 

With Fraser, Robertson and Paterson coming back in, the average age could be even younger v San Marino.

This I'd give McLeish credit for, happy to see us try to reduce the average age of the group of players.

 

Always relying on older heads is just self defeating, players start getting international experience at 27,28 29 instead of 22,23 when we should be trying to ease them in.

 

Unfortunately I think McLeish is tactically clueless and completely out of touch with his players.

[eeps]

Is that not what McLeish has essentially been doing?

 

Strachan's last game - there were five players over the age of 30 and the average age of the team was 28.

 

Just now there's only player in the whole squad over 30 (McLaughlin) and the average age of the starting line-up v Kazakhstan was 24.

 

With Fraser, Robertson and Paterson coming back in, the average age could be even younger v San Marino.

Yep McLeish brings in young players and brings in Aberdeen players. Unfortunately he's a flawed tactician. I didn't watch game against Kazakhstan but result reminiscent of Georgia away last time he was in charge and last campaign I attended. Naive.

[Panda]

Aye he has been choosing younger players but the pool just isn't that deep especially if the likes of Robertson and Fraser are missing.

 

Maybe kelt means they should start choosing some of the next generation, those 18 to 21 but I don't think too many of them have much first team football yet.

But, again, we're essentially already doing that. Five players were 22 and under in the starting line-up v Kazakhstan. That didn't include Tierney who is 21, or McTominay (22) who came off the bench.

 

Looking at the u21 squad that played yesterday, the Motherwell players are good - Jake Hastie, David Turnbull, Allan Campbell, but are any of them outperforming the guys that started in Kazakhstan.

 

I tend to think, fully fit, our squad is alright. But I don't think the players are playing for McLeish.

[Ke1t]

Is that not what McLeish has essentially been doing?

 

Strachan's last game - there were five players over the age of 30 and the average age of the team was 28.

 

Just now there's only player in the whole squad over 30 (McLaughlin) and the average age of the starting line-up v Kazakhstan was 24.

 

With Fraser, Robertson and Paterson coming back in, the average age could be even younger v San Marino.

 

24.71 , if my calculations are correct    ... though we started the game with four player who'll be 28 this year, and only four players under 24.  Basically our usual selection of players from England's second tier and Tims. One of the subs will be 29 this year, Johhny Russell. Not exactly 'one for the future'.

 

I'd like to see guys like Hornby and Lewis Ferguson get moved up to the senior squad.  And by fuck we could have used Ferguson's dig in midfield against the Borats. 

 

I'm not necessarily saying that McLeish is using older players... or that he'll go back to the older players in a desperate attempt to get results on a game to game basis, with no thought for the future (but there's a good chance he will). We're qualifying out of this group like I'm getting a ride tonight, so this is the ideal tournament to just promote wholesale and at least make the effort to build a team for the future. 

[Panda]

24.71 , if my calculations are correct ...

 

 

That's counting the subs. The starting XI was 24.5.

 

Either way, it's less than 28 in Strachan's last game.

 

Basically our usual selection of players from England's second tier and Tims.

There were as many English second tier players in the starting line-up as there were from Aberdeen & Hamburg.

 

I'd like to see guys like Hornby and Lewis Ferguson get moved up to the senior squad. And by fuck we could have used Ferguson's dig in midfield against the Borats.

Bold choice in Hornby, giving a guy his Scotland debut before he's even broken into the first team at his club.

 

If you're giving a young striker a chance, then McBurnie is 22 and had scored 10 goals in 10 games prior to his call-up.

[Ke1t]

That's counting the subs. The starting XI was 24.5.

 

Either way, it's less than 28 in Strachan's last game.

 

 

There were as many English second tier players in the starting line-up as there were from Aberdeen & Hamburg.

 

Bold choice in Hornby, giving a guy his Scotland debut before he's even broken into the first team at his club.

 

If you're giving a young striker a chance, then McBurnie is 22 and had scored 10 goals in 10 games prior to his call-up.

 

 

 

Bain - Tim 

Palmer - English 2nd Tier

Armstrong - Ex-Tim

McGregor - Tim currently English 4th Tier

McGinn - English 2nd Tier

Forrest - Tim

McBurnie - English 2nd Tier

Burke - English 2nd Tier currently a Tim

 

Sub - McNulty - English 2nd Tier

 

 

 

McKenna - Aberdeen

Shinnie - Aberdeen

Bates - Hamburg

 

Unless I'm way off, there's 3 times as many Tims and English 2nd Tier players as Aberdeen and Hamburg. 8 of whom started, and another coming on as a sub to make 9. That seems like a fairly Tim/English 2nd Tier biased squad. Are my numbers not correct? 

 

Hornby wouldn't be a replacement for a guy like Burnie. He'd more likely be a replacement for a guy like Russell who, at his age, is not going to be developing any further. Hornby was just a name out of the hat, someone who'd scored twice against the Dutch at U21, regardless of whether he was playing 1st team or not... I'm not arguing for or against him specifically... he was a 'for example'. 

 

I did, as you pointed out, include the subs. But since they played I think it's fair to include them in any consideration. 

 

I feel we're overanalysing this, though. 

[tiktak]

The 19s beat Turkey 3-1 away?

 

and the full side can also get the odd result ie. drawing with and coming close to beating England. We used to compete very healthily with all the top nations at youth level, now they can totally destroy us when they're on their game. All we can do is defend for our lives, we have nothing to offer.

 

In recent times

U21 couldn't beat Togo, Andorra, Estonia, Macedonia

 

The further down the age groups you go I'll happily agree that the results will look fairly decent but it's all smoke and mirrors. Winning at youth level doesn't necessarily mean you have a higher degree of skill than the other side. I''ll wager that the reason for our limited success is based more on surprising other teams with the level of aggression we have at that level. While they're all away learning skills which take years to hone we've been learning 'get in their faces', 'hit them hard', 'play it early', 'play it long' etc.  In short, we teach our kids how to win, they teach theirs how to play - and then, when all the little boys are all grown up, all the aggression in the world will not compensate for the lack of ability in our players. 

 

To take it to a lower level, read your local newspapers the week after Easter, read the sports pages and you'll likely read of the triumphs of some local youth team who went over to Holland or elsewhere and won a tournament. It means jackshit. I've been at these tournaments. You watch the Scottish "managers" going mental, screaming for penalties, bawling out "move up, move up" every tackle greeted with yells of approval. Then you look at the Dutch COACHES watching quietly, applauding their approval at a good pass, dribble, off the ball run, whatever. Until we get with the program will will continue the slide into footballing nonentities. The truth? They look at us and they laugh behind our backs.

 

MT: Don't show me results at youth level, show me the actual game, show me how we outclassed the other team with ball possession, clever passes, good movement. If you can do that, I'll put up my hands and say I was wrong. I won't be holding my breath while you do.

[Ten Caat]

Project Brave you’re having a laugh, pro youth teams pick the tallest, quickest, strongest boys ahead of the boys that are physically smaller but with superior technical ability. Until we focus on technical ability we will never develop and ultimate move on as a nation.

 

That has been happening since the early 80's....not really a new phenomenon.

[Hazlehead Don]

Still the reason why we are miles behind so many other countries, we should be focusing on technical ability!

[manboobs109]

My wee laddie is in an SFA coaching course. The coach is good and the drills etc are excellent but the games are pointless. The age range is far too big so the bigger faster kids dominate the games. It's putting him off going and I've spoken to the coach but he's got a point in that he can only run one game at a time and a football coaching course is pretty pointless without having at least a 15 minute game

[manboobs109]

Russia 2-0 up at half time in Kazakhstan. We're shit.

[pwtredz]

Russia 2-0 up at half time in Kazakhstan. We're shit.

you think...

[Dynamo]

Lol 4-0 Russia now in Kazakhstan. Tough place to go though

[Reed or deed]

Bring back Colin Hendry.

 

Ok, so he borrowed his father in laws life savings in desperate times and then didn't pay it back, but you can't hold that against him forever.

[Scotty_Toronto]

Links?

[Panda]

There were as many English second tier players in the starting line-up as there were from Aberdeen & Hamburg.

 

 

 

Unless I'm way off, there's 3 times as many Tims and English 2nd Tier players as Aberdeen and Hamburg. 8 of whom started, and another coming on as a sub to make 9. That seems like a fairly Tim/English 2nd Tier biased squad. Are my numbers not correct? 

 

 

Like I said, there were as many English second tier players as there were from Aberdeen and Hamburg.

 

I wouldn't describe Celtic players being "our usual selection" considering some struggled to get in the squad under Strachan. Armstrong barely played even when on form, Griffiths took an age to get a starting place, McGregor didn't even get capped. It's probably about time that on-form players were getting picked.

 

And in tonight's line-up, there are four Celtic and English Championship players compared to seven who aren't.

[shut up meg]

 

Non Scot watch - 0 @@Henry

[BWG]

Bates is a hun so not Scottish.

[Ke1t]

Like I said, there were as many English second tier players as there were from Aberdeen and Hamburg.

 

 

9 Tims + English second tier players including the sub. Which is what I said. 

 

vs 3 Aberdeen + Hamburg. 

 

Which is not 'as many as', it's 'three times more than'.

 

9 out of 14 is a pretty significant number. 

[Scotty_Toronto]

Cheers, Dad! 

[Ke1t]

Scotland looking "exceptionally comfortable all over the park"...

 

...against a pub team. 

 

Exciting times. 

[shooftahmooftah]

Scotland looking "exceptionally comfortable all over the park"...

 

...against a pub team.

 

Exciting times.

Don't worry they will wish they didn't go on the park when they play the Russians and belgiums.

[Panda]

9 Tims + English second tier players including the sub. Which is what I said. 

 

vs 3 Aberdeen + Hamburg. 

 

Which is not 'as many as', it's 'three times more than'.

 

9 out of 14 is a pretty significant number. 

 

You said McLeish needs to get rid of the older players and bring in younger ones. It's been pointed out he already has, but for some reason you still don't agree.

 

Your whole "usual collection of Championship and Celtic players" doesn't stand up to scrutiny, and you're ignoring there's just four out of eleven in tonight's team.

 

McLeish may have his faults but he has clearly overhauled the squad since Strachan came in. Silly arguing otherwise.