Lessons learnt from Italy match

[K-9]

McLeish will now have to be judged on what he has learnt from the last 2 games with results going as expected.

 

Weir is finished.

 

McManus is not anywhere near international standard and would be more suited to the Grand National.

 

Alexander whilst great at his club just does not have it for this level.

 

Hartley should never be used as a holding midfielder.

 

Barry Ferguson cannot pass forward.

[minijc]

Agree with all of that, thought the heart of the defense isna good, would rather have the Caldwell brothers than those to donkeys, in midfield should be Fletcher and brown, both love going forward and get stuck in- that's what it's all about. The bloke Teale shouldna be no where near the team either, would rather have foster as he's fast and gets stuck in more.

 

As for Ferguson, give him the ball when there is lots of space and he'll do ok but we were playing Italy and that's never going to happen- how ever if they give us more room to play a bit more he would have been more affective-

[Milners]

McLeish will now have to be judged on what he has learnt from the last 2 games with results going as expected.

 

Weir is finished.

 

McManus is not anywhere near international standard and would be more suited to the Grand National.

 

Alexander whilst great at his club just does not have it for this level.

 

Hartley should never be used as a holding midfielder.

 

Barry Ferguson cannot pass forward.

 

I do think its time to see if Anderson can sink or swin in international level but thats now 2 managers that refuse to pick him ahead of other players - do we have red tinted specs on and think he's better than what is already getting picked????

 

Hartley has been sh*te all season and i agree he's not a holding player - bit surprised not to see Daily on in that position.

 

Didn't think Barry Ferguson played that badly did some decent passes in the first half but most was side-ways but i do think he did ok.

[muir]

I thought Ferguson was our best player.

 

I agree that Weir is finished and that Alexander isn't good enough at international level.

I also think that McCulloch and Teale are not good enough.

 

On the positive side I thought that Brown looked good and I thought Maloney did OK when he came on.

[The Hobbit]

Poor team selection by McLeish. Safe, uninspiring and negative as f*ck. McLeish is just the clone of Smith. Warts n'all

 

This lone striker sh*te annoys the f*ck out of me. I understand why they do it but I'm failing to see the what logic dictates that the lone striker he has to run about like a headless chicken.

 

Surely if you play one striker he needs to have a good touch and be in the box when you need him, I lost count of the times Miller was out wide for link up play and we were left with one or no midfielder in the box.

 

The difference in class between Boyd and Miller is obvious. Maloney would also be a better option than Miller as he can bring other people into the game.

 

Somebody also needs to inform Miller that if you are tackled illegally in the box that you have to go down. :thumbs:

 

 

Finally a special mention for the ref for being a home banker. Twat.

[BTR]

Weir and Alexander should both have played their last games for Scotland. The channel between them was targeted countless times for Italian through balls as it was an obvious weakness.

 

Agree with the Hartley/Ferguson sentiments to an extent although Ferguson was by far our best player yet again.

 

Maloney gave us so much more when he came on.

 

McCulloch was totally anonymous and didn't make life difficult for Oddo at all.

 

Miller has the unbelievable knack of messing up a simple pass along the ground.

 

Boyd - top scorer for the last couple of years, a hat-trick in his last game for Rangers and a goal on Saturday, yet he only gets 11 minutes?

 

McManus made alot of basic errors you don't get away with in international football, but on the whole I love his old-fashioned, no-nonsense style.

 

Hartley was dire again as he was on Saturday.

 

In a nutshell, I reckon Aberdeen would've beaten last night's Scotland team.

[Monkey]

I'm sorry to say I looked at the table and saw we'd played 6 games and we were on 12, Ukraine top played 5 and have 12 points, France played 5 and on 12 points, Italy played 5, on 10 points, I cannot see us Qualifying from this group unless we take 9 points from our next 3 games, and that includes France.

 

I never really thought we would qualify from this group anyway but I think you are being a bit pessimistic with the above.

 

We are half way through the campaign and have, what according to most opinions, half the points needed to qualify.

 

We have played one game more than the other three teams but have only to play each of them once more.

 

Ukraine still have to play France twice, Italy once and us

 

France have to play Ukraine twice, Italy once and us

 

Italy like us only have to play each of the teams once but only have two home games left ( France and Georgia) and are two points behind.

 

Having beaten France once to lose to them in France is not the end of the world providing they win their games against Ukraine and Italy.

 

Our crunch game is Ukraine at home ( I am assuming we get 6 pts from next 2 games though) :thumbs:

[I.Tully]

Craig Gordon was, by far, Scotland's best player last night.

 

Ferguson played well, as did Brown and Miller, I thought.

 

Weir and Alexander should go. Was McNamara not on the bench? Surely he'd be a better option than Alexander?

 

Agree the Maloney did OK when he came on, but he was f*cking about for their second goal.

 

Boyd should, indeed, have got more time than he was given.

 

At the end of the day, we were playing the world champions on their own patch, where we had only scored one goal in five previous attempts. The manner in which we lost goals was galling and if it hadn't been for Gordon, the result could have been embarrassing. It's imperative that we beat Lithuania, the Faroes and Georgia, which would take us to 21 points. I fully believe that we will take points from the home games we have against Ukraine and Italy and we can only hope that the teams round about us take points of one another. I think we may well have pissed off the French, so I'm not holding out to much hope for us when we go there in August!!

[vanderark14]

Mcliesh doesnt have to do weir what mclaren did to beckham and exclude him from the squad entirely he just doesnt need to start him having weir around might help.

 

Brown proved last night that if your good enough you are old enough.

 

Mcliesh must stop picking weir dailly and alexander for the starting 11, they did well for their country but their time has past.

 

Weir should never have been allowed back in any way.

[Baggy89]

McCulloch I never even knew he was playing until he got taken off.

 

Why? Because after he got taken off you realised that no other Scotland player was joining Miller in the box?

 

Last night we had a chance against Italy, who no matter what anyone says were average. They never showed class that won them the World Cup.

 

Then again Italy never really showed the class that won the world cup, in the world cup.

 

 

Teale? After last nights performance and someone told me Teale was a ballerina, I'd actually believe them! He is f*ckin balls. I can't even think of anything more to say about him, I think f*ckin balls sums the lad up.

 

Maloney when he came on, give him his due - he looked a threat, he WANTED to have a go at the Italians, and thats more that can be said for some players wearing the jersey last night. It was a good sign when Maloney was on the ball, albeit slightly to late in the game for him to make any real impact.

 

Agreed Maloney should have been on from the start, why didn't McLeish have a word with Jewell about Teale, he obviously didn't reckon he was good enough for the Prem???

 

Just like to add, I thought Craig Gordon was excellent aswell last night.

 

Aye, the ONLY player who could have got a game for the Eye-Ties, based on last nights performance, some world class saves from him. Says a lot for a keeper to be part of a team that lost two - nil and still be considered one of the top performers.

[sheep_shagger]

I was quite surprised by the team selection last night as it wasnt built around sitting back and trying to hit them on the break. Would have started with somebody a bit more solid and reliable playing the holding role and had Brown out wide. Teale was anonymous and contributed f*ck all, McCulloch was too often coming inside which showed we desperately need somebody wide left, but then again so do most teams. Paul Hartley was a disgrace last night and should have been subbed, McManus was at fault for the first goal where the defending wasnt even good enough to be described as schoolboy level and basically our defence was in pieces last night.

On the plus side, Gordon did well, as did Brown (though i thought he looked a little lost at times), Miller worked his arse off as usual and Ferguson i thought had one of his best games for Scotland. At the beginning of the qualifiers that game would have been written off as one we wouldnt take any points from so just focus on our next two games and get the 6 points in the bag.

[tlg1903]

The first goal we conceded was pretty shocking. Ok so toni is a handfull but he never should have had that kind of space. Its not like the defence hadn't been warned before that either as he had two good chances (1 that was offside). I totally agree with the majority on this wier and alexander are past it. Thought wier totally misjudged the flight of the ball for the second as it looked like he should have had it. The very least he could have done is stayed on toni. Teale was pretty anonymous but did have a couple of nice touches. Hartley is wasted as def mid, if big eck wants ferguson to go forward he needs to play a holding midfielder. Think seve would have been a lot more effective than hartley but unfortunatley we seem to be falling into the english trap of playing our best players as opposed to our best team. Fergahun was really good in spells last night and our best player. Our ageing defenders lost us the game last night though to be fair when delpiero came on he gave the italians real imputus and looked a handfull. In my opinion the better team won but i think it goes down as a missed opportunity as we were capable of not letting them be the better team

[Batfink]

Think it's fairly obvious that Weir and McManus will never be a partnership, too slow. Anderson must wonder what he has to do to get a start!

Also Hartley and Fergushun should never be played together in the centre, not enough pace and neither really gets forward.

 

I've a feeling McLeish will do a Smith and stick by the players who look like their past it at International level

[Douchebag]

Weir was shown to be what he is... old, slow and never was any good even when he was young...

 

Hartley... bollocks get him tae f*ck

 

McManus looked very average as well

 

generally the marking was a joke maybe they didnt realise that zonal marking means to mark a player who is in your zone not to mark the actual zone of space whether there is nobody there or not... footballers are generally a bit thick and you shouldnt confuse the with tactics like zonal marking just tell them to mark everyone in the box...

 

Interesting that when Italy got a corner they had 8 or 9 players in our box... result 2 goals from crosses.

When they got a corner against them they had 10 players in the box man marking

When Scotland got a corner at one point we had 1, yes 1 guy in the box.

When Scotland defended a corner they had about 7 players in the box zonal marking..

 

Naysmith got caught out badly a few times and they could have scored twice more if not for great saves from Gordon.

 

McLiesh blew it by not puting a man, 2 even, on Luca Toni the guy got 30+ goals in Serie A that about says it all, call him a fanny and a diver but if he gets on a ball in the box it ends up in the net. Instead he tried some ludicrous marking tactic that the players oviously didnt understand

 

That said I thought , with a bit more adventure, we could have got something from the game. Brown, Miller and Fergusin played well and tried at least I saw the red mist descend with Brown a few times thats what we need players who hate losing and actually give a sh*t. And Maloney looked the business when he came on.

 

Form now on we have to go out and attack and win all our games so the next lineip should include Beattie and Boyd, Maloney and Miller, somehow, from the start.

 

So other than the inclusion of fannies Hartley, Alexander, Wier, McManus, McCulloch and Naysmith there is some optimism for the future, time to cast off the dead wood and old guys and give the new generation a chance we have got some really good players in Scott Brown and Craig Gordon, if Miller could shoot then he waould also be a great player...

 

But its time Anderson got a chance I think he would have done a lot better last night than Wier and McManus I think he is more used to the backs-to-the-wall defending we could have used last night...

 

whether he is good enough is irrelevent as the choices are thin on the ground he's the best we have got at that age... try him with Webster in the middle I think they would make a good pairing dare I say it.

[Guest CAPSLOCK]

IT'S NEVER REALLY WORRIED ME BEFORE THAT ANDERSON DOESN'T PLAY FOR THE NATIONAL TEAM PURELY FOR SELFISH REASONS.

 

THAT SAID, IF HE'S NOT GOING TO BE PICKED WHEN HE'S CAPTAIN OF THE CLUB, WHEN WE'RE SITTING 3RD IN THE LEAGUE WITH ONE OF THE BEST DEFENSIVE RECORDS AND REGULARLY PICKS UP MOTM AWARDS THEN YOU'VE GOT TO WONDER IF HE'LL EVER GET A GAME.

 

THIS IS BEGINNING TO PISS ME OFF.

[boaby]

Toni had the beating of the centre halves for the vast majority of the game.

 

De Rossi and gattuso out fought and outplayed our midfield for the majority of the game.

 

I can't believe McCulloch gets a start on the left wing. His sole job always seems to be competing in the air. Nae good enough at international level.

 

Teale is pish. Utter, total pish. Well out of his depth. Zambrotta and DiNatale pissed all over our right flank.

 

McManus performance was abysmal. Climbing all over Toni most of the time. 1st goal was from a free-kick from a rash McManus challenge. Seemed to be zonal marking which is ludicrous IMO. With limited time to prepare surely it's better to keep things simple and stick to man-to-man marking at set pieces. Ferguson and Naysmith failed to do enough at the near post and McManus was slow to react. Bad coaching and bad team defending IMO.

 

Very disappointing defensive performance.

 

Ferguson, Gordon, Brown were good. Naysmith, Miller were OK. The rest were poor.

 

Anderson must be on the verge of giving up.

[Douchebag]

when you got a 6'5" giant like Toni then just stand a yard off him he's slow but he can turn you and steal a yard and before you know it he's scored.

 

McManus was holding on to him and didnt have the strength or experience to play him.

 

Really to lose 2-0 against them away from home is not a bad result you can see the big difference is they have ball playing defenders who are also good on the ball where we still play carthorses at the back. TBH i think anderson is also from the school of Mlish's long ball punts... not that long ball cant be effective it took Celtic to Uefa cup final... but when you see Cannavaro when he was surrounded by scots he did a lovely trick and wrong footed them then sprayed a ball across to the full back to have defenders who can run the game like that is the big difference.

[The Hobbit]

when you got a 6'5" giant like Toni then just stand a yard off him he's slow but he can turn you and steal a yard and before you know it he's scored.

 

McManus was holding on to him and didnt have the strength or experience to play him.

 

Really to lose 2-0 against them away from home is not a bad result you can see the big difference is they have ball playing defenders who are also good on the ball where we still play carthorses at the back. TBH i think anderson is also from the school of Mlish's long ball punts... not that long ball cant be effective it took Celtic to Uefa cup final... but when you see Cannavaro when he was surrounded by scots he did a lovely trick and wrong footed them then sprayed a ball across to the full back to have defenders who can run the game like that is the big difference.

 

Nail on the head.

 

An experienced defender would have made sure that he didn't even get a jump. A wee tug of the shirt or sly nudge at the right moment.

 

Scotland have always had good central defenders but our better players coming through seem to be midfield / forwards now.

 

On another note we only seem to be spawning midgets who can play football like Miller, Maloney, MacFadden etc.

 

Is it too much to ask to get a couple of 6'2" brick sh*t houses who can run over the top of other teams?

[snoyl]

Kenny Miller shouldn't be played as the striker who we look for to score goals i.e last night. How many chances did they tit have? If he played Boyd he may not have been in half of the positions but at least he would have hit the target!

[JimmyJimmy]

Miller suited the style of play that we had last night - no way boyd could play the lone striker role, he'd do feck all. Miller can hold the ball up and run after it all night - thats what we needed but we also needed someone who could finish. For many parts of the game we played with a front two with Brown pushing up, I don't see why that couldn't have been a Miller-Boyd partnership.

[The Hobbit]

Miller suited the style of play that we had last night - no way boyd could play the lone striker role, he'd do feck all. Miller can hold the ball up and run after it all night - thats what we needed but we also needed someone who could finish. For many parts of the game we played with a front two with Brown pushing up, I don't see why that couldn't have been a Miller-Boyd partnership.

 

Really, I think the lone striker needs a good touch and must be able to take a chance when it comes his way. It has to be more than just being a heedless chook.

[chunk]

I don't see why that couldn't have been a Miller-Boyd partnership.

 

Becuase Boyd wouldn't have done the midfield part of the job that Brown did.

[BTR]

Garry O'Connor would be perfect for a lone striker role. Good touch, good positional awareness and very strong on the ball. But it's all about how much he wants it I guess.

 

McLeish has to be careful not to fall into the Craig Brown trap of being too loyal to your players. Weir, Alexander and an out-of-form Kenny Miller are the names that immediately spring to mind, whilst Scotland's player of the year (Maloney), Scotland's top scorer (Boyd) and Scotland's in-form central defender - not only according to those with red-tinted specs (Anderson) continue to be overlooked. Also Graeme Murty (he isn't my cup of tea, but he has been gatting rave reviews) perhaps deserves his chance too.

[JimmyJimmy]

Becuase Boyd wouldn't have done the midfield part of the job that Brown did.

 

No but Miller could - he even seems more suited to an attacking midfield role. The point I am making is that last night Boyd on his own would have been hopeless - just as Miller was. What we needed was a more attacking style rather than let the defence soak up all the pressure.

 

I agree - thought Brown was a credit to the team last night, I just think that having more of an edge up front would have been more useful. IMO Miller was as good at tracking back as Brown was pushing forward.

 

Hobbit you're right about needing a good touch, but Miller was tracking back last night and making all the work for himself. I'm saying the lone striker role with anyone but Miller will just involve route 1 football - and against that Italian defence would have looked pathetic.

[NorthernLights24]

McManus is not anywhere near international standard and would be more suited to the Grand National.

 

 

After Georgia and Italy its clear this guy isn't up to the standard. He seems alright when it comes to putting a tackle in but when it comes to crosses and picking up players in the box he is bloody useless.

 

Gordon was great last night and probably kept us in the game longer then we may have deserved to be.

[Douchebag]

other than the defence the team put up a good show... to still be in with a chance at this stage is great really... when i saw the draw I thought it was a waste of time showing up...

 

While on the subject does anybody here actually rate McLiesh as a manager lets see his record got a good Motherwell side relegated after a 3rd place finish, then got Hibs promoted from the First Div then nearly got them relegated again then got the Huns joab... was discussing with my m8 last night if Rangers were actually the best team in any of the competitions they won under McLeish we recon he was lucky Ive never really seen much that proves to me he is a good manager

[Patty]

Even my OF friends have been saying, "What has Russell Anderson got to do to get a game" I thought they would be pro Weir and McManus, even after last night?

[vanderark14]

we are in a very good position, 1 which nobody thought we would be in but it is time to get rid of the oldies i'd like eck to give the following a go.

 

----------------Gordon-----------------

 

Mcnamara, Anderson, Mcmanus, Naysmith

 

Maloney, Brown, Fletcher/Ferguson, Mcculloch

 

take your pick up front from - mcfadden, boyd, miller, o'connor or even maloney and put teale on the right. whichever 2 are on form and scoring goals at the time.

 

a good mix of experience and youth there.

[NorthernLights24]

Even my OF friends have been saying, "What has Russell Anderson got to do to get a game" I thought they would be pro Weir and McManus, even after last night?

 

I think he'd have to come out in the press and admit he was a closest hun and the only reason he was still at Aberdeen was because the fans kept sending him death threats

[vanderark14]

other than the defence the team put up a good show... to still be in with a chance at this stage is great really... when i saw the draw I thought it was a waste of time showing up...

 

While on the subject does anybody here actually rate McLiesh as a manager lets see his record got a good Motherwell side relegated after a 3rd place finish, then got Hibs promoted from the First Div then nearly got them relegated again then got the Huns joab... was discussing with my m8 last night if Rangers were actually the best team in any of the competitions they won under McLeish we recon he was lucky Ive never really seen much that proves to me he is a good manager

 

we are not england fans. give him a chance eh!!!