Why Are We So Bad?

[Ke1t]

Milne, clearly, is the constant factor throughout the decline.

 

Are there any reasons that can't be traced back to the guy in (non-executive) charge?

 

I remember the year we relied on Partick being so bad we wouldn't go down, and this year it's looking like we can start counting our blessings that Hamilton is in the SPL. How is it even possible for the club we love to be so f**king terrible, year after Milne-run year?

[Patty]

While our budget is comparitively larger than half the SPL, I don't think it is being utilised to it's maximum effect.

[diamondsr4ever]

Definitely Milne. It's karma, natural justice, working in mysterious ways kind o stuff, stuff that is not explicable by mere man.

 

Why should AFC succeed when his agenda is not pure and never has been?

 

Some failed to see it. Milne has hijacked the business of AFC plc. We are suffering because he won't be allowed to, nor does he deserve to, succeed.

 

 

[Jonty]

Definitely Milne. It's karma, natural justice, working in mysterious ways kind o stuff, stuff that is not explicable by mere man.

 

Why should AFC succeed when his agenda is not pure and never has been?

 

Some failed to see it. Milne has hijacked the business of AFC plc. We are suffering because he won't be allowed to, nor does he deserve to, succeed.

The mans the most successful house builder in Scotland, so where's the karma there?

 

He's been sh*t at choosing when to hire and fire, and who to hire and fire, which is not exactly unique amongst spl chairmen.

 

No way should a club with our resources be scrabbling about in the bottom reaches of the league, unless the football people left in charge were inept on a massive scale, which almost without exception from miller through to McGhee, they have been.

[Jonty]

His record outside our club is of zero consequence. His record of being in charge of our club is of every consequence.

 

In this regard, he has failed massively. I happen to agree that his recruitment of football personnel has been an utter disaster.

 

But you must consider the biggest recruitment mistake he ever made, and the reasons why he hired him.

 

Willie Miller wasn't recruited for the right reasons. He wasn't qualified to be our DoF and he was always going to be a barrier to progress, since proven

 

On and off the field, there are no mitigating circumstances to absolve Milne of total responsibility.

 

Whatever the nature of the mistakes he has made, his record at AFC plc stands by itself and it is an irrefutable disaster on a scale previously unimagined.

 

There are reasons why he is failing big time. Those relate purely to his motivations in my opinion.

 

I agree willie miller is conning the club out of a wage - any credibility he had left (which for me is none for reasons completely unrelated to afc) was spent when he failed to fall on his sword after 'his' man McGhee got the bullet. How can jim Leighton work alongside the man who sanctioned his replacement?

 

Milne at least takes the flack on the chin, none of which ever seems to be directed at Martin Gilbert, Gordon Buchan or the rest, and at least he hasn't disgraced himself in the manner of Boyle last weekend. It's not Milne that needs replacing (not that theres a q forming there) it's his recruitment advisor.

[Jonty]

take it calderwood is the exception you refer to?

 

Miller / aitken/burkinshaw / miller / hegarty / ebbe / Paterson / calderwood / McGhee / brown.

 

f**ks sake.

[Ke1t]

Calderwood brought no success to AFC. He kept us away from relegation, but I REFUSE to accept that not getting relegated and one decent European run is success of any significant measure. It might be a success for Raith Rovers to play in Europe, but for a club the size of Aberdeen in a league the size of the SPL that should be routine, not cause for wanking ourselves silly with jubilation.

 

A successful manager will walk away from Aberdeen Football Club on his own terms, having brought at least one, single, solitary trophy to the club.

 

When a manager meets those criteria I'll agree that manager was a success.

 

Calderwood wasn't an unmitigated f**k up. But not being an unmitigated f**k up is nothing like synonymous with being successful.

 

Calderwood wasn't a success.

[Stoneybloke]

Once again we are back to blaming Milne after the short lived spell of false hope after the arrival of Brown and Knox. Maybe it is all down to him, but even if he did pump money in, would that fire the players up to show far more urgency and an overwhelming will to win. I doubt it. I am coming to the conclusion that there is something deeply wrong about the culture at Pittodrie. What it is I don't know, but there seems to be a repeating pattern of under achievement that is impossible to break out of.

[rossafc92]

At the moment, the answer does not lie with Milne. Motherwell and Dundee United, two teams who have been doing very well of late have much smaller budgets than ourselves. United have picked players up like Conway, Gomis and Bauben over the years on the cheap and developed them in to very good senior players. More recently, Motherwell have picked up guys like Humphrey and even Maurice Ross on the cheap and it seems to be doing them the world of good. There are good quality players out there that can be brought here on a very realistic wage. We just haven't had enough time to find them under Craig Brown yet.

 

The shape we are in just now isn't good, but you cannot bypass the injury list that has been growing game by game recently. So many key players have been missing it's incredible. Looks like McArdle and Diamond (even if he's pi$h anyway) have been added to that list after tonight. We just don't have enough players to fill the correct positions. I am sure Brown will source decent talent on a tight budget over the summer. He did a good job of it down at Motherwell and I believe we are still a more attractive club than them. For now, we'll just have to live with it until the summer comes.

[Stoneybloke]

And who's f**king fault is that then? It's not pre-ordained. This is reaping what was sowed.

Sowed by who?

[rossafc92]

Of course you are right with your second sentence. Nobody can dispute this. The issue here is responsibility.

 

If you were to follow through to the logical conclusion then it is indisputable that our Director of Football is the man in charge of this.

 

And when you consider the specific reasons why he was employed in the first place, or even if he is competent for the role, then the man who recruited him stands accused.

 

The record on the pitch has been woeful for many years and the record off the pitch has mirrored the continuing decline.

 

The people of the city and shire have turned their back on Milne and Miller's AFC. These people are not stupid. They see what, or what's not, happening.

 

I agree to an extent, but I don't believe that Milne/Miller have that much responsibility over matters on the park as some may think, especially with the current management team. I feel this way because when things are going well like they were when Brown and Knox arrived, nobody seemed to comment on the Milne/Miller situation. However as soon as the sh*t has started to hit the fan, everybody is jumping on their back again like they were towards the end of McGhee's reign here. I'm not saying they don't hold any of the blame, just not as much as people think. When it comes to WM's role as DoF, then I'd like a clear explanation of what that role actually involves. I don't believe he has too much of a say when it comes to on-field matters. I think player contracts is about as far as it goes.

 

It is obvious Brown can source talent on the cheap - look at the players he brought in at Motherwell, as well as guys here like Milsom. I think he will continue to do so in the summer and I believe we will be a much more competent team next season.

[rossafc92]

I'm not saying that they influence what goes on on the park at all. I'm saying that Milne and Miller ARE ultimately responsible for it.

 

In the corporate world, an organisation chart traces lines from the very bottom to the very top. If a mechanic f**ks up and the customer gets killed in her car because of his negligence, then his service supervisor, service manager, dealer manager, group division manager, motor division president and group M.D. (or whatever their titles would be) are all responsible.

 

And if we can all see that it's not working then you could reasonably expect a former top player and one with management experience to see it too.

 

It's a shambles and has always been a shambles under Milne, getting steadily worse year upon year upon year.

 

You are right there. The long term problems do lie higher up than the management team at Pittodrie. However the current situation, I think, is easy to fix and I feel that Brown and Knox are capable of doing it. Perhaps then Milne and Miller will start to do things the right way (perhaps they are already implementing it?). They admitted themselves when McGhee was given a stay of execution that they needed to look at the way the football club was run from top to bottom and not just McGhee/Leitch/Meldrum and the players.

[madjockmcferson]

I'm not sure its an Aberdeen specific issue. Nobody in Scottish football is any good, apart from maybe Rangers and Celtic. The SPHell seems to be in a race to the bottom as far as quality is concerned. It wouldn't be so bad if there was competition at the top, but there isn't. There just isn't anything to get anyone excited.

 

The best time for us to invest was during our Euro run 3 years ago. That team deserved to be invested in and improved. I don't think any other team in the last 15 years has deserved to be invested in or improved.

[Ke1t]

Harry Truman famously had a sign on his desk that said, "The Buck Stops Here". As the guy in charge he knew that ultimately responsibility lay with him. He had a government helping him run the country, but he was the guy at the helm.

 

What Milne did was hire Miller as his own personal meat shield... a club legend who could run interference between the increasingly disgruntled fans and an increasingly under pressure group of incompetents who were running the club into the ground.... and still are.

 

That's two different management styles to consider.

 

A leadership that takes responsibility, and one that looks for new and interesting ways to blame some other poor c**t. In the case of AFC we have Miller playing meat shield, coupled with a string of incompetent appointments at managerial level... appointments who are then given a nice, golden handshake and all the blame for the state of the club.

 

The sign on Milne's desk probably says, "The Buck Stops At The Meat Shield. f**k That Guy, He's Getting Paid Handsomely To Do f**k All Else But Take The Heat Off The c**ts At The Top."

 

It's probably a really long sign.

[Sonoftherock]

Harry Truman famously had a sign on his desk that said, "The Buck Stops Here". As the guy in charge he knew that ultimately responsibility lay with him. He had a government helping him run the country, but he was the guy at the helm.

 

What Milne did was hire Miller as his own personal meat shield... a club legend who could run interference between the increasingly disgruntled fans and an increasingly under pressure group of incompetents who were running the club into the ground.... and still are.

 

That's two different management styles to consider.

 

A leadership that takes responsibility, and one that looks for new and interesting ways to blame some other poor c**t. In the case of AFC we have Miller playing meat shield, coupled with a string of incompetent appointments at managerial level... appointments who are then given a nice, golden handshake and all the blame for the state of the club.

 

The sign on Milne's desk probably says, "The Buck Stops At The Meat Shield. f**k That Guy, He's Getting Paid Handsomely To Do f**k All Else But Take The Heat Off The c**ts At The Top."

 

It's probably a really long sign.

 

Basically this is pretty much the deal. Miller isn't much more than an expensive whore.

 

It was a clever and calculated appointment by Milne (in terms of being in his own best interests).

[onlyjim]

Definitely Milne. It's karma, natural justice, working in mysterious ways kind o stuff, stuff that is not explicable by mere man.

 

Why should AFC succeed when his agenda is not pure and never has been?

 

Some failed to see it. Milne has hijacked the business of AFC plc. We are suffering because he won't be allowed to, nor does he deserve to, succeed.

 

Hallelujah brother............... :applause:

[barassie_afc]

The mans the most successful house builder in Scotland, so where's the karma there?

 

He's been sh*t at choosing when to hire and fire, and who to hire and fire, which is not exactly unique amongst spl chairmen.

 

No way should a club with our resources be scrabbling about in the bottom reaches of the league, unless the football people left in charge were inept on a massive scale, which almost without exception from miller through to McGhee, they have been.

 

 

Sickens me when I read stuff like this , Milne makes the decisions, most of which have been horrendous

[Jonty]

Sickens me when I read stuff like this , Milne makes the decisions, most of which have been horrendous

 

Milne doesn't make the day to day football related decisions. He gives his manager the 4th (or 5th whoever you listen too) highest budget in the league to spend as he see's - he can surely expect a better return than he has had. He's been terribly advised.

 

And in response to earlier posts I'm no Milne apologist - he has made one catastrophic decision after another re appointing good people - if there was somebody lining up to replace him then I'd want him gone. But theres not - unless anybody knows differently, and if they do, then who is it?

[Jonty]

It's posts like these that make me sick.

 

Secondly by suggesting that Gilbert, Buchan et al should partially relieve Milne of his responsibility. Thirdly by failing to understand the corporate reality by saying that there's no-one else.

 

If Gilbert and Buchan etc are not partially responsible for the mess that Aberdeen are in, then what do they do and why are they on the Board? As members of the Board they are all culpuble - or do you not understand how companies operate?

 

Ok - help me understand the "corporate reality" and explain who at this time will replace Milne? Meanwhile back on planet earth...

[barassie_afc]

Milne doesn't make the day to day football related decisions. He gives his manager the 4th (or 5th whoever you listen too) highest budget in the league to spend as he see's - he can surely expect a better return than he has had. He's been terribly advised.

 

And in response to earlier posts I'm no Milne apologist - he has made one catastrophic decision after another re appointing good people - if there was somebody lining up to replace him then I'd want him gone. But theres not - unless anybody knows differently, and if they do, then who is it?

 

He made most of the appointments, sackings in the 90/00.......... he appointed Miller, chose to waste money and build the new stand, driven the club into debt.

[Jonty]

 

And in response to earlier posts I'm no Milne apologist - he has made one catastrophic decision after another re appointing good people - if there was somebody lining up to replace him then I'd want him gone. But theres not - unless anybody knows differently, and if they do, then who is it?

 

 

He made most of the appointments, sackings in the 90/00.......... he appointed Miller, chose to waste money and build the new stand, driven the club into debt.

 

So we agree.

[barassie_afc]

So we agree.

 

 

Violently

[Foster14]

Fan expectation...

[Stoney]

Some players turning in one good performance every 8.85 games and expecting it to be good enough =)

[Old Wing Stand]

Players are definately to blame no question

[StandFree1982]

We need some life back in the club, it's being run by dour faced old men (not meaning Brown here...) who are running the club as a business rather than a football club, and it's sucking the life out of OUR famous club. I don't want a chairman who will splash every penny we've got on players for success either, we've seen that been done before and the consequenses. What I want to see is a chairman with some enthusiasm for OUR club, some carisma that will filter down through the club to the players and then to us, the fans. Milne isn't a bad person, I believe he does have AFC at heart and he is a dons fan, BUT that isn't enough...he is far too dour!

 

In saying that, you can't blame Milne for the players playing well below their own standards every single week. Can we blame every manager since say Alex Smith for not getting enough of the players?? Is the problem in that we are scouting players from Glasgow and surounding areas and not getting players who have the clubs best interest in mind? I think the problem is a lot worse now than it was back when we were nearly, and should have been, relegated. We at least had players who fought for the club to an extent, we had some decent calibre of player. Nowadays we've got a kind of "I don't give a sh*t" culture within the club and I really think we need to have a major cull of the players who've been here through numerous managers, your langfields, youngs, Diamonds, Fosters ) etc, and start again with a youthfull eager set of players who haven't been hampered by these past failures.

 

Can't just go "It's all Milnes fault" and I really don't think we can say that Craig Brown is a bad manager, so who's fault is it? I would love for us to have the cash to just say "Right, everyone in the dressing room....get your coats, leave by the front door and NEVER come back" and start again.

[Jonty]

 

The barn door shown to Jim Cummings was evidence of Milne's lack of transparency. The divisive PR that he allowed to continue for years (and which he acknowledged by email after rocket had put it on the table at the AGM), the failure this late to have a funding plan in place, the missing thousands etc. etc., these are all symptoms of his management, all aspects of his failure to succeed with the responsibility that he helped himself to at our expense.

 

Miller's appointment was the ultimate warning. A safe bet, Milne thought. Brown's appointment was another safe bet but where this Milne-run AFC has wrecked the legacies of two Gothenberg greats already, I reckon Milne's AFC could wreck the reputation of a thoroughly decent man in his 70's who's trying his best, farting against thunder.

 

Missing thousands? Does this refer to fans or funds?

 

Craig Brown himself acknowledges the backing he has received from the Board since joining AFC has been excellent, he wouldn't have left Motherwell otherwise.

 

Milne never wrecked Willie Miller or Mark MGhees "legacies" either, he merely supplied the rope, which those two happily hung themselves with.

[Jonty]

. Brown's appointment was another safe bet but where this Milne-run AFC has wrecked the legacies of two Gothenberg greats already, I reckon Milne's AFC could wreck the reputation of a thoroughly decent man in his 70's who's trying his best, farting against thunder.

 

http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/Article.aspx/2101854?UserKey=

 

[StandFree1982]

Let's face it....it's our faults! The fans.

 

We've allowed football to turn into this media circus, we've accepted the hike in ticket prices to pay for over inflated egos. We've accepted mediocrity! We've subscribed to SKY, Setanta, ESPN etc.

 

Royal "We" of course...

 

Sad state of affairs really.

[Jonty]

Let's face it....it's our faults! The fans.

 

We've allowed football to turn into this media circus, we've accepted the hike in ticket prices to pay for over inflated egos. We've accepted mediocrity! We've subscribed to SKY, Setanta, ESPN etc.

 

Royal "We" of course...

 

Sad state of affairs really.

 

I'd agree to a certain extent - if Scottish people spent more time and money on our own game, rather than the EPL, we'd be in a much stronger position. And of course if every second person up here wasn't a glory hunting hun or f4cking t1m.