Aberdeen Identity

[tup]

All the bickering amongst our support on here over whether the rivalry with Rangers is of any importance had me considering why there is no 'consensus' amongst us, as to the identity of our club.

 

To me Aberdeen FC has always been a club that represents core values that Rangers and Celtic, and Hearts and Hibs to a lesser extent, just do not possess, and could never hope to possess. Pride, integrity, honesty and independence from the religious one-up manship which blights the south of the country.

 

However, one thing Celtic and Rangers do possess, which we do not currently, is a solidarity amongst their fans, so that, by and large, they all sing from the same (bigoted) songsheet.

 

We seem fractured in that sense. Our opinions, on matters like Rangers and Foster, are massively polarised.

 

What Fergie gave the club when he came was a true identity, and a united stance. He was very shrewd in that sense. He immediately made it clear we were up against it, in terms of the hatred coming our direction from those in governance in Scottish football, and used it as massive leverage to wring more from sometimes ordinary players.

 

Now, we have seen Dundee United's chairman kow-towing to Rangers last season, capitulating in the face of a complaint over sectarianism by his own fans. What a coward.

 

We need strong language from the club, in terms of the injustices we face constantly, and the fans would follow suit, giving us all some common ground to identify with, making the whole club stronger and giving us some steely resolve sorely lacking in recent years.

 

Part of the reason for this is choice of manager. From Aitken, to Miller, to Skovdahl none of these guys understood our club.

 

Then Paterson, who probably did, but was too smashed to rally anything approaching a siege mentality.

 

Then Calderwood, a hun, but he had an excellent record against Rangers. But again, he pandered to their sensibilities and went out of his way not to offend them.

 

McGhee - less said the better.

 

Brown needs to start, ahem, fostering this again. Part of that is wordplay.

 

I think we all need to start finding some common ground to really get the club back to where it belongs, some 'cause' (west coast bias being the obvious one) to unite behind.

 

Just a thought.

[Betty Swallicks]

Mostly sense but some shyte in there too Tupster!

[tup]

Mostly sense but some shyte in there too Tupster!

 

Where?

[Betty Swallicks]

Where?

 

 

In your post, far di ye think?

[seanthesheep]

Good post tup. Id also like to add that its this "divide," thats helping drive fans away from pittodrie. We need to get together again and "stand free" once more

[ayrdons]

Aye, i'd buy intae that, but then again, whit the f**k do i know ?, ken, coming from Ayr and that.

[tup]

We need to find a cause, and we need to all be unanimous in getting behind it, 100%.

 

It's basically the two fingers up to everyone attitude we need to reclaim. We had this in spades until around the mid 90's. Then it drifted, and has now all but disappeared completely, such have been the wretched disappointments we've had to endure in recent times.

 

And I dinna mean some fans 'initiative' afore anyone starts, they're pish, and embarrassing, I'm talking about EVERYONE, not just a small section, getting the siege mentality on, for EVERY game.

 

To do that, we need to be clear on what our whole aim as a club means.

[RUL]

Mostly sense but some shyte in there too Tupster!

 

Lets be honest, it was total sh*te!

 

Willie Miller knew this club inside out and was leading us to relegation. Aitken it is claimed did not understand this club, but won us a trophy, led us to 3rd and another semi final. He catipulated because he couldn't spot a player.

 

Mark McGhee would surely have fitted into this criteria as Willie Miller, he was there during the Fergie era and knew what it was about. McGhee didn't fail because he did not understand the club and for me this is all bollocks in any case.

 

Football comes down to 11 V 11, there are mitigating factors, such as crowds/weather/officals and so forth that affect results but we didn't dominate the 80's because Fergie instilled a ethos. His team had 5 or 6 outstanding footballers and the rest of the squad fitted in a way that few teams ever do.

 

We havent' failed since because of a lack of effort, but because the 11 players we've had out on the park have not been a) good enough or b) winners with the attitude to make up for shortcomings in their ability. We're a poor fkn team just now and I credit anyone who believes this will be turned around this year without signing 11 decent players

[Jonty]

First place to start is to end the footballing equivalent of apartheid and get rid of the f**king ridiculous rule meaning any changes to the spl needs a 10-2 majority. Other clubs should meet up tomorrow and demand that is scrapped in favour of majority voting.

 

Next I would demand that the old firm stop talking to the EPL and threatening to leave. If that's the way clubs want to go we should discuss the issue with the EPL as a league, ie creating a British league or whatever. If Aberdeen / hibs / hearts were in the premiership they too would be bigger than many of the teams already in it ( hello Wigan, Swansea, Stoke, fulham) so why should it be up to the old firm alone whether they want to leave.

 

Thirdly I'd set up large fiscal penalties for any sectarian chanting/ banners etc, with the money going to fund the anti sectarian gov campaigns, I don't see why taxpayers in the north east should be penalised for something that's is not an issue up here.

 

Gone off topic a bit, but there you go...

[Jack_Glass]

Religion e.g. Catholics & Protestants will always create strong bonds between people/supporters, something a mixed bag like Aberdeen will never have. It would take Aberdeen splitting the old firm again to bring fans together because apathy has set in.

 

Celtic and Rangers fans know the league n cup is really between them, they're in a football comfort zone and they are positive n negative to each other creating strong rivalry. There's no such thing that drives Aberdeen fans to unite as we're neutral. Until we start dishing out to the old firm what they dish out to us, we'll never feel as one again.

[redarmy88]

All the bickering amongst our support on here over whether the rivalry with Rangers is of any importance had me considering why there is no 'consensus' amongst us, as to the identity of our club.

 

To me Aberdeen FC has always been a club that represents core values that Rangers and Celtic, and Hearts and Hibs to a lesser extent, just do not possess, and could never hope to possess. Pride, integrity, honesty and independence from the religious one-up manship which blights the south of the country.

 

However, one thing Celtic and Rangers do possess, which we do not currently, is a solidarity amongst their fans, so that, by and large, they all sing from the same (bigoted) songsheet.

 

We seem fractured in that sense. Our opinions, on matters like Rangers and Foster, are massively polarised.

 

What Fergie gave the club when he came was a true identity, and a united stance. He was very shrewd in that sense. He immediately made it clear we were up against it, in terms of the hatred coming our direction from those in governance in Scottish football, and used it as massive leverage to wring more from sometimes ordinary players.

 

Now, we have seen Dundee United's chairman kow-towing to Rangers last season, capitulating in the face of a complaint over sectarianism by his own fans. What a coward.

 

We need strong language from the club, in terms of the injustices we face constantly, and the fans would follow suit, giving us all some common ground to identify with, making the whole club stronger and giving us some steely resolve sorely lacking in recent years.

 

Part of the reason for this is choice of manager. From Aitken, to Miller, to Skovdahl none of these guys understood our club.

 

Then Paterson, who probably did, but was too smashed to rally anything approaching a siege mentality.

 

Then Calderwood, a hun, but he had an excellent record against Rangers. But again, he pandered to their sensibilities and went out of his way not to offend them.

 

McGhee - less said the better.

 

Brown needs to start, ahem, fostering this again. Part of that is wordplay.

 

I think we all need to start finding some common ground to really get the club back to where it belongs, some 'cause' (west coast bias being the obvious one) to unite behind.

 

Just a thought.

 

 

Exactly what I've felt for a long time. Good post mate.

[Jack_Glass]

so, you gonna practice what you preach an stop all the anti-glaswegian sh*te you aim at the glaswegian dons fans?

 

lol...Good observation there bud. I'm originally from Greenock but living in Port Glasgow now. I don't regard myself as a so called weegie, but if some small minded Don's fans think weegie extends down to here then fair enough.

 

First all Don's fans need to unite and get this weegie nonsense buried, there are tons of us so called weegies been supporting the Don's for decades. Highlighting it even in jest only highlights another dividing mentality.

 

Success usually brings with it a united front, as we've been starved of success it's easy to see why there's a lack of unity.

[Jack_Glass]

I think you'll always get the "Weegie" stuff going on, it's probably a bit parochial but given the hatred Aberdonians harbour towards the bigot brothers and everything around them then I think it'll be difficult to shift.

 

I reckon it's less of an issue at games than it is on internet forums though.

 

Yeah yur right, at matches it's a bit different. I felt even during the Euro games under JC there's was a more united Don's support, like the days of old when top Euro sides came to Pittodrie for their proverbial humbling.

 

That to me shows how important success is to unity, especially for a club with a successful history that's lost it's way over the years.

[Jazzer_Bett]

It's about the quality of the player on the field, ultimately

[dervish]

Great post Tup. I reckon part of it is that as Dons fans we have a base level of pride (we aren't ICT for example, we do expect some level of sucess), but most of us have to deal with shyte from OF fans/press and we don't like it so we get used to fitting our corner pretty well and maybe even harshly. Then we disagree with another don and both attack with this hyper response. Kinda like an autoimmune disease. Added in the obvious insecurity because our beloved team is pretty shyte in a shyte league and it's a recipe for fractures.

 

The club up until very recently hasn't helped much either.

[dj_bollocks]

Part of the reason for this is choice of manager. From Aitken, to Miller, to Skovdahl none of these guys understood our club.

 

Exactly the sort of thing I'd expect fans of the Huns or Tims to say... To understand our club for the past 15+ years is "to do the best you can with what little you have". Don't upset the apple cart, don't bite the hand that feeds you. Don't have lofty ambitions, don't have any ambitions at all. Make excuses when you lose, don't be surprised when you don't win. Patronise your fans, accept averageness...

 

We are the epitomy of a club that has no ambition and in your desire for AFC fans to get behind something 100% you can look no further than the chief idiots that have taken us here.

[Ke1t]

It was easy to be united when Fergie was manager.... we were always winning, we had the OF and West Coast media beelin', we had a competent board headed by Dick Donald, and the club was run WITHIN ITS MEANS.

 

Now there's so much wrong at the club, originating from the board level, that what we have is the footballing equivalent of a dysfunctional family on welfare. Now, instead of a smart, savvy father in the shape of RD, and a big screen TV with surround sound to keep us occupied, we're being entertained with the stuff Milne provides us with... a f**ked black and white portable TV, sitting on top of a broken TV, with only basic channels available through dodgy ariel.

 

Obviously the kids are going to get antsy.

 

Also bear in mind that Aberdeen fans are a shrinking assortment of hard-liners. Those who don't really care much about football, or who have lives, have drifted away, leaving behind a much smaller core of opinionated, rabid supporters.

[russellh]

It was easy to be united when Fergie was manager.... we were always winning, we had the OF and West Coast media beelin', we had a competent board headed by Dick Donald, and the club was run WITHIN ITS MEANS.

 

Now there's so much wrong at the club, originating from the board level, that what we have is the footballing equivalent of a dysfunctional family on welfare. Now, instead of a smart, savvy father in the shape of RD, and a big screen TV with surround sound to keep us occupied, we're being entertained with the stuff Milne provides us with... a f**ked black and white portable TV, sitting on top of a broken TV, with only basic channels available through dodgy ariel.

 

Obviously the kids are going to get antsy.

 

Also bear in mind that Aberdeen fans are a shrinking assortment of hard-liners. Those who don't really care much about football, or who have lives, have drifted away, leaving behind a much smaller core of opinionated, rabid supporters.

 

Thats an interesting post Kelt, the bit in bold made me think of my own stance regarding the club. Of course i will always be Aberdeen, that is of no doubt. Becoming a father to a son, he has reached the age of 15 months, where its cute to get the mini kit on him (of course a dons one, nothing else). Of course you get all manner of c

[sheepiekev]

I think you'll always get the "Weegie" stuff going on, it's probably a bit parochial but given the hatred Aberdonians harbour towards the bigot brothers and everything around them then I think it'll be difficult to shift.

 

I reckon it's less of an issue at games than it is on internet forums though.

 

 

Alot is made of our terrific away support.....but without "the weegies"/central belt support, it would be pretty average.

Fergie and his team spawned thousands of "weegie" fans who wanted to support someone different from the Bigot Brothers - we should be grateful for them.

I love the famous Stuart Cosgrove quote - but a substantial chunk of our away support are from the central belt.

That's fine by me - we need all the support we can get.

[weejoeharper]

Alot is made of our terrific away support.....but without "the weegies"/central belt support, it would be pretty average.

Fergie and his team spawned thousands of "weegie" fans who wanted to support someone different from the Bigot Brothers - we should be grateful for them.

I love the famous Stuart Cosgrove quote - but a substantial chunk of our away support are from the central belt.

That's fine by me - we need all the support we can get.

 

I grew up in Glasgow in the seventies long before success and SAF. In those days it would be me my dad and sometimes only a few dozen dons fans at some away games. Some of you on this forum just seem to want to vent your spleen against anyone outside of your little city. I used to, before I moved south, go to Pittodrie a few times a year but I preferred the away games because the fans were better and let's be honest most of them were from Glasgow or Edinburgh not Aberdeen. A fan's a fan wherever they come from so stop be so childish and grow up. We should stand together. End of.

[tightbreeks]

we had a great formula, all seater stadium, a chairman and vice chairman who supported their manager, and so on. I was wee, but union street and the casuals were exciting and seemed to be like the football, new and matched the team in what they set out to do. the potential is huge and with some risk taking we could win the crowds back, in the '80's there may have been a few celtic and rangers fans in aberdeen but no hearts or hibs, and when i moved to edinburgh in '88 there was loads of aberdeen fans at school!

[sheepiekev]

I grew up in Glasgow in the seventies long before success and SAF. In those days it would be me my dad and sometimes only a few dozen dons fans at some away games. Some of you on this forum just seem to want to vent your spleen against anyone outside of your little city. I used to, before I moved south, go to Pittodrie a few times a year but I preferred the away games because the fans were better and let's be honest most of them were from Glasgow or Edinburgh not Aberdeen. A fan's a fan wherever they come from so stop be so childish and grow up. We should stand together. End of.

 

 

What he said

We have far too many parochial fans as witnessed by the embarrassing comments of some directed at Ricky Foster

[tup]

Mark McGhee would surely have fitted into this criteria as Willie Miller, he was there during the Fergie era and knew what it was about. McGhee didn't fail because he did not understand the club and for me this is all bollocks in any case.

 

1. Aitken came very close to taking us down, was as thrawn as McGhee, and was responsible for my worst moment as a Dons fan, a 2-0 humiliation at Ochilview. No talent as a manager. He inherited a good team.

 

2. If you think Mark McGhee understood Aberdeen football club, and what we're all about, despite his playing days here, you're crazy.

[V for Vendetta]

1. Aitken came very close to taking us down, was as thrawn as McGhee, and was responsible for my worst moment as a Dons fan, a 2-0 humiliation at Ochilview. No talent as a manager. He inherited a good team.

 

2. If you think Mark McGhee understood Aberdeen football club, and what we're all about, despite his playing days here, you're crazy.

Debating which managers understood the club or did the most harm etc takes this thread away from the OP you made tup. What you say is perhaps touching on something I've believed for a little while now.

 

IMO Until this club has a united fanbase, who support ALL the Afc players on the pitch throughout and get behind our manager we will not have a clear voice to demand the club we feel Afc should and could be. The problem currently is the lack of strategy and senior management at the club. While the fans remain divided and many fans remain desperate for reasons to set themselves against the players we do not have a coherent voice to make any demands of the board.

 

If we stuck together, backed players and management, we might, just might be able to send a clear message to the board that they are the ones who need to up their game. And if this board is not up to delivering what the fans expect its time for some of them to move on. Not just the big share holders on the board but some of the other hangers on that don't seem to contribute anything to the club whatsoever.

[tup]

That sounds very Celtic that, 'our manager isn't Celtic minded'.

 

Anyways, I don't think any manager will understand Aberdeen, simply because we don't even know our own club anymore, it's been f**ked for years and it's impossible for any manager to understand.

 

How can managers get our club, if our club isn't even recognisable to us these days.

 

The fans don't even share the same opinions anymore.

 

Apathy.

 

Which is why we need to have a change in attitude, decent players is less than half the battle, it's all about the mentality you carry into it, sport is 95% psychology in my opinion.

 

Moaning about things serves no purpose, and indeed expends energies which could be channelled in a far more positive manner.

 

If you believe in something it goes a long way towards achieving it. We've lost our belief.

 

Everyone needs to be onside, showing unity of purpose, in order to change that.

 

We need to find common ground, as an undercurrent of disillusionment and dissent permeates the support.

 

And for that, we need a cause.

[V for Vendetta]

Which is why we need to have a change in attitude, decent players is less than half the battle, it's all about the mentality you carry into it, sport is 95% psychology in my opinion.

 

Moaning about things serves no purpose, and indeed expends energies which could be channelled in a far more positive manner.

 

If you believe in something it goes a long way towards achieving it. We've lost our belief.

 

Everyone needs to be onside, showing unity of purpose, in order to change that.

 

We need to find common ground, as an undercurrent of disillusionment and dissent permeates the support.

 

And for that, we need a cause.

 

I believe the fans could, if they were minded to do so and had a fcking clue, create this cause for the team and management. We should have a backs against the wall mentality already as clearly our club is in a steady decline. But somehow we don't.

 

Apathy as Roberto said is killing us.

 

But on top of that I'd say the lack of direction or common cause within the more rabid fanaticism of our support is also killing us.

 

2 sides of the same coin.

 

edit: made more sense of more original post!

[V for Vendetta]

If you believe in something it goes a long way towards achieving it. We've lost our belief.

 

Agree with you both on this. I'm not sure our fans even know what they should or might believe in anymore.

 

I believe its possible for a decent management team to do things at this club even on our modest budget. It would require as tup states a complete togetherness of the players and management. A real team spirit. A never say die, never roll over to anyone attitude. A desire to win every game. Determination and focus to perform against the small teams every week not just when the players fancy it.

 

Brown and Knox may or may not be able to foster that in the team and players.

 

But there are 2 other corner pieces missing from the jigsaw here.

 

Do the fans have the belief and the stomach for this? Or there just too many immature fans who can't see past the next bitching session, can't get beyond their own petty need to vent at the players. These fans will never find togetherness and help build it at the club.

 

Outside of the playing and coaching staff, who is the leader at this club, who builds the mentality of the non playing staff need? If it is Miller or Milne I say we are fcked and won't get that mentality into the other activities at the club. I get the impression we are staffed with quiet folk who quietly get on with their we job and accept the decline of the club. They need a leader and they need inspiration from that leader.

[tup]

I said something similar to this yesterday and BettySwallicks took the piss.

 

Well it's a straightforward fact of life.

 

If you have division, in any workplace, you do not have success.

 

Cohesion creates confidence, which creates a winning mentality, and so on and so forth, in ever increasing circles.

 

If you have no cohesion, the players treat the club like a holiday camp, as we've seen with some of the useless b*stards we've had stealing good money from the club for little return in recent years.

 

Shirking any responsibility, because nobody is taking them to task, nobody is rallying them, there is no strong voice urging them on.

 

Alex Ferguson made half decent footballers into brilliant team players, by creating a one for all mentality. Some of these players did not go on to any great success elsewhere, but played massive roles for Aberdeen, because they knew what they were meant to be doing, and so did all around them. They also knew that a heavy price would be paid for a lack of effort.

 

We need to get that mindset in our players. At the moment there seems to be an almost mutual hatred between certain players, and certain fans. This undermines us.

 

Hatchets need to be buried and people need to start thinking about what's good for Aberdeen football club, as a whole, and not focus on individuals.

 

There's no 'i' in team as they say.

[Betty Swallicks]

Well it's a straightforward fact of life.

 

If you have division, in any workplace, you do not have success.

 

Cohesion creates confidence, which creates a winning mentality, and so on and so forth, in ever increasing circles.

 

If you have no cohesion, the players treat the club like a holiday camp, as we've seen with some of the useless b*stards we've had stealing good money from the club for little return in recent years.

 

Shirking any responsibility, because nobody is taking them to task, nobody is rallying them, there is no strong voice urging them on.

 

Alex Ferguson made half decent footballers into brilliant team players, by creating a one for all mentality. Some of these players did not go on to any great success elsewhere, but played massive roles for Aberdeen, because they knew what they were meant to be doing, and so did all around them. They also knew that a heavy price would be paid for a lack of effort.

 

We need to get that mindset in our players. At the moment there seems to be an almost mutual hatred between certain players, and certain fans. This undermines us.

 

Hatchets need to be buried and people need to start thinking about what's good for Aberdeen football club, as a whole, and not focus on individuals.

 

There's no 'i' in team as they say.

 

 

 

There is a "u" in c**t though.

 

 

Far to positive Tup min, you sound like a yank.

Get back to your usual bitter self.

[tup]

There is a "u" in c**t though.

 

 

Far to positive Tup min, you sound like a yank.

Get back to your usual bitter self.

 

Plenty time for that when the fitba starts, when it can be justified.

 

What concerns me greatly is we have a number of deluded supporters who are prepared to write us off before a ball is kicked. It's all over every thread, doom-mongering about if's, but's and maybes.

 

It's hard to keep a level of confidence about the club when you have this incessant bitterness, based on past events, and outwith the control of the current manager.

 

It appears to be condemn first, analyse later.

 

Maybe folk just need to take two steps back and say, come hell or high water, I'll lend my FULL support to Brown's project until it is given a chance to materialise.

 

There's no argument about it, we have our best manager for more than twenty years, he knows what to do to succeed, we need to maybe give him the full backing of what is potentially a tremendous fanbase in order to facilitate achieving it.

 

Not call him into question at every turn.

 

There are those on here, and they by no means represent a consensus, who appear absolutely convinced within themselves that making progress is impossible for the club, because of what's gone before.

 

It's not, and things can change very quickly in football, so let's get behind Brown, and a club legend in Archie Knox, and give them unstinting backing, regardless of small decisions made, the minutae, irrelevant in the grand scheme, and let's concentrate on the big ships sailing past us, the stock and standing of the club as a whole, by injecting a bit of pride in ourselves again.