Spl Wages

[Dynamo]

That can only mean we are paying over the odds for utter shite while those around us seem to be getting a lot more bang for their buck.

 

 

This is exactly it. in fact, it's not even up for debate.

[tup]

Wages, in football as in life, are no barometer of talent.

[Dandyesque]

that .5% though makes up another 26K a year. The difference in quality from a player earning 78K a year and one earning over 100K a year should be noticeable.

 

Also the guy earning 100K a week isnt worth 100K a week, he's just playing in a league with over inflated wages. When you drop down a division in those countries (Spain, England, Germany etc) the wages come a lot closer to the SPL's, probably around double the SPL pays... the players in those leagues though couldnt be classed as twice the player an average SPL player is.

 

 

All good points.

 

That

[Dandyesque]

Wages, in football as in life, are no barometer of talent.

 

100% agree.

 

Which is why every poster who expects us to beat St Johnstone home and away in every fixture we meet them, simply because our total wage bill is double theirs, is an utter cretin.

[Dynamo]

All good points.

 

That

[tup]

But this bring me back to my initial point - if you can't expect to get someone twice as good if you pay twice as much, how much better should you expect someone to be if you pay them 20% more? Maybe 5%? Maybe not even better at all?

 

I would argue that most players below the super wage category are much of a muchness.

 

The formula works in the opposite way intended.

 

If you have, say, Lee Miller earning

[K-9]

100% agree.

 

Which is why every poster who expects us to beat St Johnstone home and away in every fixture we meet them, simply because our total wage bill is double theirs, is an utter cretin.

With double wages available it pretty much should lead to expectation that we should be able to beat St Johnstone home and away. In reality never going to win every game against them though.

 

But if not beating them more often than not then it is blatently obvious that they are getting much more value for their money than we would be.

[K-9]

I would argue that most players below the super wage category are much of a muchness.

 

The formula works in the opposite way intended.

 

If you have, say, Lee Miller earning

[Dandyesque]

He meant 26k.

 

Taxed at 40% = less 10400

 

So overall leaving the player with

[tup]

In that case lets cut our wage bill in half and we should improve!!

 

We certainly canna get any worse.

 

Paying less makes players hungry for success.

 

Caley pay all their players roughly the same wage and it works.

 

As soon as a player gets a big contract, he eases off, it's human nature.

[Dandyesque]

 

 

But if not beating them more often than not then it is blatently obvious that they are getting much more value for their money than we would be.

 

Impossible to argue with that.

 

But it's not as simple as that, is it?

[Dynamo]

Is AB32 some sort of distant constellation?

 

Or do you have an excellent accountant?

UK higher level income tax is 50%, not 40%

 

Higher living expenses is not speculation - look at the average cost of flats, houses, etc.

 

Even cars cost more up here.

 

Then add in flights to, eg Manchester as it's a 6-hr drive, rather than 3 from Glasgow, etc, etc

 

Only once you're earning 150k or over it's 50%. So lets say someone earning 2kp/w at Motherwell would be on 2.5k at aberdeen.

As i said pure speculation. Why would a Scottish player go to Manchester?

Why would they need to buy a car up here?

Is there not expensive areas in Glasgow?

[Redstar]

Liveable basic... high bonus for performance...the rest of the world has been doing this for quite a few years

[Dandyesque]

Only once you're earning 150k or over it's 50%. So lets say someone earning 2kp/w at Motherwell would be on 2.5k at aberdeen.

As i said pure speculation. Why would a Scottish player go to Manchester?

Why would they need to buy a car up here?

Is there not expensive areas in Glasgow?

 

I was making the example of us and Motherwell competing for the signature of an out of contract player from the area - or, say, Steve Jennings who is from Liverpool.

 

 

There aren't any good players in Scotland that we could afford.

 

--

 

And yes, there are some nice areas in Glasgow - but then, you don't see Kari Arnason living in Tilly, do you?

[spamspamspam]

All good points.

 

That £20k + - can't decide if you mean £22k or £26K - is immediately halved (unless you played for Rangers in the 90's) by tax.

 

Then add in higher living expenses and it works out to be a fairly marginal difference. I would argue that we would actually have to pay the SAME player more money for these reasons.

 

---

 

I agree that a league one full back on £5k per week is probably not twice as good a player as, for instance, Ricky Foster.

 

He might be 10-20% better in terms of consistency or build or something.

 

But this bring me back to my initial point - if you can't expect to get someone twice as good if you pay twice as much, how much better should you expect someone to be if you pay them 20% more? Maybe 5%? Maybe not even better at all?

 

£26K is what i stated, 52 x £500

 

Someone on PAYE earning £1500 a week will take home after tax and NI £51,848.96

Someone on PAYE earning £2000 a week will take home after tax and NI £66,128.96

 

We pay the same as Hibs, there or thereabouts. Living costs in Edinburgh are higher than in Aberdeen.

We pay more than Motherwell... a 4 bedroom house in Lanark can cost up to 3K a month to rent which is around the same as a 4 bedroom house in Cults.

 

The whole cost of living etc is relative. You rent a home for what you can afford. If you are on 100K a year you'll live in a 3K house just like if you're on 50K a year you'll spend 1500 on rent.

 

I think you've over complicated things a wee bit Dandyesque... We are when we are IMO because each manager we've had has misspent his budget. JC did it by signing up the likes of Duff, Mair and giving Mackie a 3 year deal. JC used to overspend on 4 players to skimp on the rest in the hope those 4 would pull us through. MM spunked 2800 a week on Ifil so he couldnt get a left back and CB has now overcompensated for our central players by having nothing but.

 

We have a decent budget in SPL terms, it just hasnt been spent in the right way for years and without a bit of a cash injection for the next 2 years to allow the manager to dump the players like Mackie who earn lots for little return and replace with a player who is technically better then we'll always be falling into the next disaster from the previous one.

[K-9]

Impossible to argue with that.

 

But it's not as simple as that, is it?

It isn't but if consistantly not getting proper value for money then something needs done. A team with AFC's resources should never be sitting anywhere near bottom of league if people at club are doing even a semi decent job. Even if doing average we should be doing much better.

[Redstar]

You would think that having a builder as a chairman....Rent free accommodation for the duration of a players contract would be a no-brainer and give us the edge when a player is in two minds between two clubs....but maybe thats to obvious

[K-9]

Cost of living in Edinburgh far higher than Aberdeen is it not?

[tup]

You would think that having a builder as a chairman....Rent free accommodation for the duration of a players contract would be a no-brainer and give us the edge when a player is in two minds between two clubs....but maybe thats to obvious

 

You can't do that though, someone has to pay tax on it whether it's given 'free' or not, either AFC, Milne or the player as a benefit in kind.

 

We're skint, Milne is as tight as two coats of paint, and the player has to pay for their house anyway.

 

So it's not really possible.

[Dandyesque]

 

[tup]

Cost of living in Edinburgh far higher than Aberdeen is it not?

 

Not particularly, I've lived in both places for a spell and I never noticed any real difference, Edinburgh is cheaper in many ways actually.

[spamspamspam]

You stated the difference between

[K-9]

Agree, however Dandyesque makes some good points.

 

It's not just a matter of the manager being handed the 4th biggest budget and should automatically get us to 4th and if he doesn't it's all his fault. Other clubs are well run, who don't have massive balancing acts every summer, who don't fanny about with contracts, who have ongoing and proper scouting and don't just rely on the manager knowing a few folk.

 

That sort of stuff completely negates any sort of marginal difference in wages IMO.

Brown hasn't had full use of the budget as yet, just as McGhee never had full use of the budget in his time here. But both have made a complete mess of whatever part of the budget they did get to play with.

 

Expecting immediately to get 4th is bit unrealistic but two transfer windows and a year in and you expect a fair bit of progress at very least.

 

But yet again we find ourselves in December with all our out of contract players in limbo and the ones we will want to keep will be able to talk freely to other clubs in just a few weeks. That is most certainly down to both manager and the board. Same mistakes time and time again from the board on that stakes aswell yet just don't seem to learn.

[fine-n-dandy]

Not particularly, I've lived in both places for a spell and I never noticed any real difference, Edinburgh is cheaper in many ways actually.

 

 

It is indeed. I cannot compare rent as I don't know the differences but I thought that Aberdeen & London were the ONLY cities in UK to hold property prices when everywhere else was dropping?

 

But Edinburgh for example has cheaper taxis (but not as cheap as Glasgow) & cheaper bus service (& better service in both also) this will likely change once the farce that is the trams come into effect.

Food & drink is pretty similar but obviously varies where ever you go in both places & same with clothing shopping etc.

As a whole the two cities are pretty much on a par with rgds pricing & Edinburgh is certainly no more expensive to live than Aberdeen.

[Dandyesque]

[/b]

 

 

It is indeed. I cannot compare rent as I don't know the differences but I thought that Aberdeen & London were the ONLY cities in UK to hold property prices when everywhere else was dropping?

 

But Edinburgh for example has cheaper taxis (but not as cheap as Glasgow) & cheaper bus service (& better service in both also) this will likely change once the farce that is the trams come into effect.

Food & drink is pretty similar but obviously varies where ever you go in both places & same with clothing shopping etc.

As a whole the two cities are pretty much on a par with rgds pricing & Edinburgh is certainly no more expensive to live than Aberdeen.

 

It's also a lot easier to find cheaper accomodation near to Edinburgh, without actually going into the New Town - or to live in Glasgow and commute. Aberdeen and the Shire are expensive.

[Dynamo]

At the end of the day we're paying good SPL wages and are definately NOT getting value for money. Compared to the likes of Motherwell. Regardless of how expensive it is to live in Glasgow or Aberdeen.

[Dandyesque]

At the end of the day we're paying good SPL wages and are definately NOT getting value for money. Compared to the likes of Motherwell. Regardless of how expensive it is to live in Glasgow or Aberdeen.

 

 

This is patently the case and is obvious to anyone.

 

What is not patently obvious to anyone is what little difference our larger budget makes.

 

When Calderwood was doing his best, we were spending well over a million a season more - and using it to keep players who were in or around the National team (Miller, Seve, Nicolson, Smith, Anderson, etc). Those players made a difference as our budget was substantially larger than those around us - but we still had plenty of dross that would not have looked out of place in the 1st Division.

 

The point is that we need to be spending 2 or 3 times more than other clubs to get any sort of guarantee of higher quality.

[Dynamo]

This is patently the case and is obvious to anyone.

 

What is not patently obvious to anyone is what little difference our larger budget makes.

 

When Calderwood was doing his best, we were spending well over a million a season more - and using it to keep players who were in or around the National team (Miller, Seve, Nicolson, Smith, Anderson, etc). Those players made a difference as our budget was substantially larger than those around us - but we still had plenty of dross that would not have looked out of place in the 1st Division.

 

The point is that we need to be spending 2 or 3 times more than other clubs to get any sort of guarantee of higher quality.

 

 

We don't. Only

[muttonhumper]

Which is why every poster who expects us to beat St Johnstone home and away in every fixture we meet them, simply because our total wage bill is double theirs, is an utter cretin.

That'll be nobody then?

[Dandyesque]

We don't. Only