Champions League

[vanderark14]

It's something you have or you don't

 

Sounds like to me that you don't, no shame in that mate

 

The world needs folk for menial jobs too don't worry

 

again avoiding the question, instead you throw out some soundbite.

 

well done, the new grown up MT lasted all of 15 seconds.

[Bluto10]

I thought bluto had given up on his Soccer AM style boring twat chat about English football.

It seems it's back. Fat cunt secretly loved English football all the time in between.

 

It's E U R O P E A N football min you thick piece of shit

[DelMonte]

It WAS a level playing field

 

We bossed the 80s

 

It's no one but our own fault that we fell away

 

You don't get given anything, earn it yourself

Aye so it's not a level playing field now like I said.

 

Cheers

[DD1903]

TV money is the issue. We knocked it back when it was all in its infancy, and we are now reaping the benefits...

[vanderark14]

You could say that Bout anything though?!

 

For example we were in pole position to be where Celtic are now, but WE fucked it up

 

No?

 

no you couldn't say that because it isn't true

[DelMonte]

You could say that Bout anything though?!

 

For example we were in pole position to be where Celtic are now, but WE fucked it up

 

No?

That's not the point I'm making though.

 

The point I'm making is that it's not a level playing field just now. Celtic win the league, get more money and build a bigger gap.

 

The same thing happens to Celtic. They get put in Pot 4, stand very little chance of getting out the group, the other teams get through, get more money and pull away further.

 

UEFA want the same teams in the latter rounds each time, they basically fix it so this happens. It's very hard for other teams to just get better as you say.

[DelMonte]

Yeah...but if we hadn't fucked up, we would be getting more money as we would be winning stuff?

 

Not sure what your point is mate, if you are successful you get rewarded

 

It's how life in general works

I know you're not sure of my point, that's very clear.

 

I don't care if we would have been in that position, it would still be unfair. I'm saying the teams at the top now will never change cause UEFA don't allow it. What do you not understand?

[DelMonte]

What your fucking problem is with successful teams getting rewards, that's what

No it's not, I've explained it.

 

Lesson learned anyway, don't argue with you cause it's a waste of time.

[DelMonte]

To see what you answer with.

 

Please explain how a team like Celtic can ever properly compete in Europe. "Get better" isn't a good enough answer.

[DelMonte]

If course it is

 

They are more cash rich now than in ages and if Rogers hangs about they will be challenging to qualify from groups, strongly, within 2 years

Will be continually put in Pot 4. Unfair way of doing it.

[Bluto10]

Will be continually put in Pot 4. Unfair way of doing it.

Cause they're a pot four team.

[tup]

What a stupid argument, is the CL fair or not?

 

All European football is heavily seeded, or fixed to put a better phrase to it.

 

Arguing about the degree of that is absurd.

[shut up meg]

Celtic might be a pot 4 team but Leicester City aren't a pot one team though.

Country coefficients are a huge problem, Leicester have no history in the competition and get parachuted straight into the Champions League.

 

The likes of Aberdeen play 6 or 8 games in the EL qualifiers and earn minimal amount of points and fall short of qualifying for the group stages and some no mark English club like Hull get automatic entry into the group stages, scrape a win at home and earn more points in that one game than Aberdeen won in the their 6 games.

 

 

The fact that they now have set up the CL to ensure that the top 4 teams from the top 4 leagues are now in the group stages automatically only tightens the grip of the top teams and top leagues.

It's getting close to being a closed shop now, not totally but its getting there.

 

UEFA are not interested in fair competition, they only want to generate cash by selling TV rights.

I wouldn't be surprised to see lunchtime weekend games in the next few years so they could sell the games to the far east for prime time TV viewing there.

[Dynamo]

Leicester qualify as champions of England. They were there on merit (parachuted straight in) - history in the competition or not.

The argument should have been why were Arsenal, Tottenham and Man City also parachuted straight in (one of them may have played a qualifier but can't remember) but Celtic, as champions of Scotland had to play 3 qualification rounds? A complete farce.

[Bluto10]

Leicester qualify as champions of England. They were there on merit (parachuted straight in) - history in the competition or not.

The argument should have been why were Arsenal, Tottenham and Man City also parachuted straight in (one of them may have played a qualifier but can't remember) but Celtic, as champions of Scotland had to play 3 qualification rounds? A complete farce.

You have a point Dynamo but really what have Celtic ever achieved in the CL despite continued participation in it?

 

The English sides all have the potential to win it.

 

Celtic have the potential to finish 3rd in their group.

 

That's seeding. Just the same as tennis, for example.

[Foster14]

The English sides all have the potential to win it.

 

 

If English sides have the potential to win it, why do they need a seedings boost?

 

Protectionism.

 

I'm not a fan of seeding in any sport, but especially team sports. At least competitors in solo sports have a finite period in which they can be at the top of the pile, seeding to ensure bigger teams get to the latter stages, therefore keeping them more relevant and richer makes it more about business and less about the integrity of the sport.

 

It is why they keep on having to do "new" things to reinvigorate interest, people get bored of the same old. They just repackage the same shite as something slightly different and then you go again.

[Dynamo]

You have a point Dynamo but really what have Celtic ever achieved in the CL despite continued participation in it?

 

The English sides all have the potential to win it.

 

Celtic have the potential to finish 3rd in their group.

 

That's seeding. Just the same as tennis, for example.

 

The system created that though. English clubs guaranteed the finance to then compete. Vicious circle.

Now i'm not one for advocating Celtic get in automatically, cos quite simply, fuck em. But on principle the champions of Scotland/Poland/Denmark are at a disadvantage before a ball is kicked because they're from Scotland/Poland/Denmark.

3 qualifying rounds, maybe you'll qualify half the time or 3/4's the time if you have a good team, but those years you don't the other just pull further away financially which in turn gives them money to get the better players/poach your better players etc etc..

[vanderark14]

comparing tennis and football seedings

 

delete your account @@Bluto10

[DelMonte]

You have a point Dynamo but really what have Celtic ever achieved in the CL despite continued participation in it?

 

The English sides all have the potential to win it.

 

Celtic have the potential to finish 3rd in their group.

 

That's seeding. Just the same as tennis, for example.

All have the potential to win it?

 

Spurs - out in group stages

Arsenal - thumped 10-2

Leicester - 2-1 down and not looking good against a very experienced Sevilla team.

 

Man City could win but I wouldn't bet on it. They are the only ones who stood a chance.

 

Celtic have done exactly what a number of English clubs have done - fuck all.

[Quagmire]

You have a point Dynamo but really what have Celtic ever achieved in the CL despite continued participation in it?

 

The English sides all have the potential to win it.

 

Celtic have the potential to finish 3rd in their group.

 

That's seeding. Just the same as tennis, for example.

 

What has City and Spurs ever done in the Champions League?

 

More often than not nowadays the 'big' English teams are outclassed by the Bayern's, Reals, Barca, Juve's etc so at this moment in time I can't see any English side coming close to winning it.

 

As league winners Celtic should automatically qualify for the group stages, if they want to make up the numbers then 2,3,4th place finishes should mean you play in the qualifiers.

[Quagmire]

Man City could win but I wouldn't bet on it. They are the only ones who stood a chance.

 

 

I'd imagine every team into the next round of the CL would want to draw City. Not a chance a centre back pairing of Stones and Otamendi will win the competition.

[craegDAMH]

I can't wait until the World / Uefa League comes to fruition and all the millionaires bugger off with their BT money to play each other every week.

[Bluto10]

All have the potential to win it?

Spurs - out in group stages

Arsenal - thumped 10-2

Leicester - 2-1 down and not looking good against a very experienced Sevilla team.

Man City could win but I wouldn't bet on it. They are the only ones who stood a chance.

Celtic have done exactly what a number of English clubs have done - fuck all.

I knew you would say that.

Try and think first min

 

I said potential.

 

Quite clearly those 4 sides are better than Celtic and have a better chance of winning the tournament.

 

 

eg

Arsenal might be failing under wenger but it would only take small changes to go far in that tournament.

For Celtic it would take a miracle.

[Bluto10]

What has City and Spurs ever done in the Champions League?

 

More often than not nowadays the 'big' English teams are outclassed by the Bayern's, Reals, Barca, Juve's etc so at this moment in time I can't see any English side coming close to winning it.

 

As league winners Celtic should automatically qualify for the group stages, if they want to make up the numbers then 2,3,4th place finishes should mean you play in the qualifiers.

They've done more than Celtic in far fewer attempts.

 

Agree with your last paragraph.

 

My issue is Celtic have had and still get their chance.

But they've have never ever done anything with it

[Quagmire]

They've done more than Celtic in far fewer attempts.

 

Agree with your last paragraph.

 

My issue is Celtic have had and still get their chance.

But they've have never ever done anything with it

 

What point are you actually trying to make? 90% of teams that play in the Champs League have never actually done anything with it. Spurs and City have taking some big scalps and qualified for the last 16, they've also been embarrassed by some pretty mediocre sides. Neither have came close to or even looked like they could win it. Similar situation to Celtic.

 

Don't let your love for the EPL cloud your judgement. I'd fancy Sevilla to win this years competition before City.

[dave_min]

You have a point Dynamo but really what have Celtic ever achieved in the CL despite continued participation in it?

Other than winning it?

[Bluto10]

What point are you actually trying to make? 90% of teams that play in the Champs League have never actually done anything with it. Spurs and City have taking some big scalps and qualified for the last 16, they've also been embarrassed by some pretty mediocre sides. Neither have came close to or even looked like they could win it. Similar situation to Celtic.

 

Don't let your love for the EPL cloud your judgement. I'd fancy Sevilla to win this years competition before City.

 

Not sure, debate started yesterday, I've forgotten actually

 

Seville are s bit too hipster for me.

 

I'll reserve judgement on City till I see a bit more of Guardiola&City pairing in the competition.

 

Long term however I definitely expect City to do better than Seville

[dave_min]

If we hadn't lost to tits like bohemians and the mob that smacked us under mcghee , maybe we would have forced ourselves up the ranking

 

We are our own worst enemy

The rankings don't go back that far. We're fucked because our country coefficient is averaged over all Scottish teams and you only get full coefficient points after qualifying rounds.

 

Our good (and bad) results actually make fuck all difference to our ranking.

 

It's a terrible state of affairs, but apparently it's ok 'cause Barca and playing Bayern for the millionth time ?

[DelMonte]

I knew you would say that.

Try and think first min

 

I said potential.

 

Quite clearly those 4 sides are better than Celtic and have a better chance of winning the tournament.

 

 

eg

Arsenal might be failing under wenger but it would only take small changes to go far in that tournament.

For Celtic it would take a miracle.

Small changes? They just got beat 5-1 at home and away. They are miles off it.

 

City could go far this year I think however.

 

The main point was that teams like Celtic don't have a chance due to UEFA.

[DelMonte]

If we hadn't lost to tits like bohemians and the mob that smacked us under mcghee , maybe we would have forced ourselves up the ranking

 

We are our own worst enemy

You don't even know how the coefficient and rankings work so you should stop speaking about the subject.